In the cathedrals of science dwell those devoted to puzzle solving, those mages who consider why why why all day and night loosing sleep in their cells working on the great Rubik cube of the Universe
This is the calling of all mages, to solve puzzles, and when a church no longer holds puzzle solvers the foundations crumble, they have dispersed to other churches that better support their primary occupation, this the revolution the godlike Sir Karl called Extraordinary Science, but the Normal Science, the magecraft of every day is puzzles, and Extraordinary Science would not exist without it.
They have glimpsed the Tangled Bank, the name-mages, they have peered deep into the magic well and that first glimpse is a satori which leaves their mouth watering. She cannot go back, the one who has seen it and every puzzle every WHY every minute answer is another intoxicating glimpse like a thirsty horse drawn to a pool just out of reach, these Tantalus. They have stolen ambrosia from the gods and it is a drug, a hedonism of life impassioned.
The puzzle solvers will never be satisfied, and thus the churches are built and crumble endlessly in cycles of reciprocal illumination spiraling downward to the inevitable asymptote, the Tangled Bank just out of reach, watched from afar. They are like Sisyphus, and they are happy.
Question:
Does it feel like these are getting repetitive?
I liked this. I wouldn't say that it's getting old, but I think you've established the tone and feel enough to take it someplace new, or develop it. This is a pretty good series, I think it can go places.
Okay, the tone has been set with these first ten, then. Where should it go, then, yes, where should it go...
You want my take? The thing I like most about this series is the way it co-opts the wonder and romance of fantasy and magic, without losing the merits of scientific thought. Something in that direction would be my pick.
So like, fantasy science fiction?
I'm probably botching the explanation. I really like how you repaint scientists as sort of reverent, arcane figures- drawing out the sense that their quest for scientific truth has significant spiritual weight as well. I think there's some good material in there somewhere. Themes like the truth as holy, and science with a mystic flair.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 25, 2010, 12:51:40 AM
I'm probably botching the explanation. I really like how you repaint scientists as sort of reverent, arcane figures- drawing out the sense that their quest for scientific truth has significant spiritual weight as well. I think there's some good material in there somewhere. Themes like the truth as holy, and science with a mystic flair.
I think I agree with that, except they are more reverent figures in the greek sense, as flawed beings. But yes, science has significant philosophical and therefore spiritual underpinnings, and a mythos as great as any other religion. The difference being that churches rise and fall but Science continues.
I really like the idea of the Tangled Bank.
Reality is just an illusion, but the illusion is really happening: Conundrum.
:barstool:
Quote from: h-town on April 26, 2010, 07:02:41 PM
Reality is just an illusion, but the illusion is really happening: Conundrum.
Blarg. Solopsism. If it's really fucking happening, then it's not a Goddamn illusion. Go boot a wasp's nest, and then tell me all about this Maya bullshit.
It's always impressive if someone you are talking to thinks you know what the fuck is going on.
That's my take from this end.
It's also really easy to talk about the reality or unreality of a chair or a poster or a x but no one ever questions the existence of a bengal tiger in the room.
Quote from: h-town on April 26, 2010, 07:15:33 PM
It's always impressive if someone you are talking to thinks you know what the fuck is going on.
That's my take from this end.
Solopsism is only good for getting laid with airheads, and even then there are easier ways.
Quote from: h-town on April 26, 2010, 07:17:21 PM
It's also really easy to talk about the reality or unreality of a chair
Um, yeah, and it's just as easy (and productive) to talk about the aether.
/Re-jack
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:23:07 PM
...So yeah. Mythic figures of science and their spiritual impact. That's a great theme. Hey Kai, where do you want this to go? I should probably say, what direction from here inspires you the most?
Yeah, do tell, Kai.
I'm not sure yet.
For the first ten, I just took a topic, like the magic well, the tangled bank, the power of names, the molecular revolution as a religious rise and fall. Then I wrote it, in one sitting and usually within 10-15 minutes time.
I haven't run out of topics, but I'm not sure this is how I want to continue.
Quote from: LMNO on April 26, 2010, 04:00:05 PM
I really like the idea of the Tangled Bank.
It's a Darwin metaphor, originally for the complexity ecology and biology that evolution has wrought. But under myth it becomes a godlike teeming mass of the universe, of Emergence condensed. Is this much different than you are reading it?
Yeah, that's pretty much how I'm reading it. You can devise a dozen analogies and levels of metaphor, like the difference between the stone fortresses of knowledge and the chaotic tangle of What's Really Out There, to make one example.
I've been getting ideas on writing a fantasy story based on some of this. Probably not in this series though.
If you have time, check out Neal Stephenson's Anathem. It has similar themes, sort of.
Have you read that semi-famous Dresden Codak comic where D&D fantasy fuses with philosophy? I'm seeing something along those lines, except with science history fusing itself to more Tolkien-ish/Greek mythology.
Quote from: LMNO on April 27, 2010, 05:04:45 PM
If you have time, check out Neal Stephenson's Anathem. It has similar themes, sort of.
You've mentioned it before, and it does have some similar themes, but much more authoritarian.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 27, 2010, 05:06:10 PM
Have you read that semi-famous Dresden Codak comic where D&D fantasy fuses with philosophy? I'm seeing something along those lines, except with science history fusing itself to more Tolkien-ish/Greek mythology.
I've seen it.
I've been thinking about, what would constitute magecraft in systematics? What sort of system would allow that to operate? And I thought, well,
What if there's this collective memory of humanity, something that with great meditative effort people can learn to access?
What if this memory is incredibly disorganized, ranging from here to there, seldom filtering well?
What if Linnaeus, sitting in a field near his house contemplating the Tangled Bank broke through to the collective memory and realized that names served as the filter to reveal information?
What if the entire system of biological nomenclature was designed so that these names would be held in the collective memory and information about kinds of organisms would be easily accessable to those who had the name?
Then a namemage would, through her ability to access the collective memory and knowledge of names and ways of searching could be very much like some sort of fantastical magic.
Hey, that's pretty cool!
Puts me in mind of the power of naming Re: maps & territories, the way names allow maps to work, thereby in some ways allowing intelligence and awareness to work in terms of reality.