We all need to go back to the trees. We all need to stop raping mother Earth. We all need to stop being so damned modern, because modern values ruined everything. Right?
No, not right. Up your entire ass. It is 2010, motherfucker. The Future. We have lasers and shit. Yeah, toxic waste too, yeah. Nukes too. Sure. But we also have the means to improve things now. The technology to end hunger EXISTS. The means to find cures for diseases and end them EXIST. The means to make the world fucking WORK FOR ONCE is finally at hand and what do I hear people saying? Back to the wilderness? Fuckhead, there is no wilderness anymore. Wherever you go there are machines in the sky ready to help you. The least perspicacious observer can see that there are no perfect solutions, yet most cases of technology in society are doing more good than bad in the world. On balance, it is constantly making our lives better.
Let us speak no more of going back to the wild. Let us now speak of sending more clenching pussy noises into space, of finding out how our universe works, and how to make our tenancy here somewhat more pleasant for everybody involved. Who really cares about what nature intended anyway, if nature intends things like smallpox?
Or eat a lightbulb.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 04:31:32 AM
We all need to go back to the trees. We all need to stop raping mother Earth. We all need to stop being so damned modern, because modern values ruined everything. Right?
No, not right. Up your entire ass. It is 2010, motherfucker. The Future. We have lasers and shit. Yeah, toxic waste too, yeah. Nukes too. Sure. But we also have the means to improve things now. The technology to end hunger EXISTS. The means to find cures for diseases and end them EXIST. The means to make the world fucking WORK FOR ONCE is finally at hand and what do I hear people saying? Back to the wilderness? Fuckhead, there is no wilderness anymore. Wherever you go there are machines in the sky ready to help you. The least perspicacious observer can see that there are no perfect solutions, yet most cases of technology in society are doing more good than bad in the world. On balance, it is constantly making our lives better.
Let us speak no more of going back to the wild. Let us now speak of sending more clenching pussy noises into space, of finding out how our universe works, and how to make our tenancy here somewhat more pleasant for everybody involved. Who really cares about what nature intended anyway, if nature intends things like smallpox?
Or eat a lightbulb.
Cf. Aldo Leopold, for counterarguments. Particularly the part about "intelligent tinkering".
He sounds like someone who mainly argues in favor of not totally screwing the environment, "environmentalism" or "land ethics", which is distinct to the ideology I am discussing, "primitivism". Unless the wiki left out the part where he hates technology.
The only other scrap I can easily dig up is
QuoteTo keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.
Which doesn't really tell me much.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 05:04:27 AM
He sounds like someone who mainly argues in favor of not totally screwing the environment, "environmentalism" or "land ethics", which is distinct to the ideology I am discussing, "primitivism". Unless the wiki left out the part where he hates technology.
The only other scrap I can easily dig up is
QuoteTo keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.
Which doesn't really tell me much.
While I agree with you that primitivism is ridiculous, at the same time this technological utopianism tends to ignore natural processes which we know little or nothing about. I'm not endorsing technophobia, but I am endorsing some intelligent tinkering.
I'm know I'm off from addressing the main point of your essay, which I am in agreement.
Primitavism is going to require 6 billion or so volunteers to not be part of the new utopia.
I suggest the primativists be the first to volunteer.
Greenland awaits!
I don't think Utopia will ever be within the grasp of humans. I've given it a lot of thought, and I just don't see it in the cards. Maybe it exists for some race of sentients somewhere, but the ancient monkey in us just won't have it.
So I'm not advocating utopia. I'm advocating futuristic progressive ideology. I think we should stop worrying about nationality and historical differences, and start asking what we can do to start attaining the promises of the future, today.
I will be very mad if my good looks go before I can plug my severed head into a floating chassis.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
I don't think Utopia will ever be within the grasp of humans.
Thank God for that.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
I've given it a lot of thought, and I just don't see it in the cards. Maybe it exists for some race of sentients somewhere, but the ancient monkey in us just won't have it.
Don't tell the libertarians. You'll ruin the funny.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
So I'm not advocating utopia. I'm advocating futuristic progressive ideology. I think we should stop worrying about nationality and historical differences, and start asking what we can do to start attaining the promises of the future, today.
True. Science and engineering are the only hope we have at this time. We thought ourselves into these problems, we'll have to think our way out. Also, I want my fucking flying car.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
I will be very mad if my good looks go before I can plug my severed head into a floating chassis.
Too late.
Quote from: SchizoNegro on April 26, 2010, 04:36:10 AM
Unfortunately I'm too lazy to care either way, whichever makes my life easier.
Translation: LOOK! I POSTED!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2010, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
I will be very mad if my good looks go before I can plug my severed head into a floating chassis.
Too late.
:argh!:
I AM LOVELY TO BEHOLD!!
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:31:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2010, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:19:59 PM
I will be very mad if my good looks go before I can plug my severed head into a floating chassis.
Too late.
:argh!:
I AM LOVELY TO BEHOLD!!
Depends upon your means of comparison. Stacked up next to me, you are an abomination.
Dok,
Sexier than fuck, and cheaper than your girlfriend.
Yeah, you do have bigger tits.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:41:50 PM
Yeah, you do have bigger tits.
And they're on my back, which is 169% WIN.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2010, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 08:41:50 PM
Yeah, you do have bigger tits.
And they're on my back, which is 169% WIN.
:horrormirth:
But srsly. I agree with you, Sig, that Utopia isn't for monkeys.
Also, who would want to live in a utopia? There just wouldn't be enough FUN, dig?
Well...
My idea of "utopia" is a city-state sized amusement park with free food and housing, manned by robots, with only a basic set of peacekeeping laws and constitutional rights.
To each his own.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 10:21:45 PM
Well...
My idea of "utopia" is a city-state sized amusement park with free food and housing, manned by robots, with only a basic set of peacekeeping laws and constitutional rights.
To each his own.
Oh... I like yours better. :lulz:
Mine is kind of how I picture if heaven existed: Lawful Good, totally boring. :lulz:
Yeaaahhhh no.
As a friend of mine once said, don't try to make me better than I am.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 10:21:45 PM
Well...
My idea of "utopia" is a city-state sized amusement park with free food and housing, manned by robots, with only a basic set of peacekeeping laws and constitutional rights.
To each his own.
Mine is present-day America.
Of course, I AM a misanthrope.
Either you're a doomsday misanthrope, or an amusement park utopian. Anything in between is a failed ideology.
8)
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 26, 2010, 10:32:34 PM
Either you're a doomsday misanthrope, or an amusement park utopian. Anything in between is a failed ideology.
8)
THIS.
Interesting. I seem to have stumbled onto something.
So, looking at Unvarnished Truth #3, there seem to be two ways you can go. One way is the one that Doktor Howl expounds in UT#2, where the solution lies in shifting focus from "better society" in legal terms, to "better society" in subversive terms. My side, which seems to reach in a different direction, focuses on "better society" by obviating currency economies with as yet non-existing technology.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 27, 2010, 05:28:54 PM
Interesting. I seem to have stumbled onto something.
So, looking at Unvarnished Truth #3, there seem to be two ways you can go. One way is the one that Doktor Howl expounds in UT#2, where the solution lies in shifting focus from "better society" in legal terms, to "better society" in subversive terms. My side, which seems to reach in a different direction, focuses on "better society" by obviating currency economies with as yet non-existing technology.
I did what? I was discussing ways to have fun by punishing the public.
But your way works, too.
I was trying to reframe that perspective so that it would fit what I was trying to get at. There's no utopia, because of UT3's points, but there are many conceivable ways to cheat human nature's priggish anti-utopian tendencies. Some of them are rosier, some of them are more fun in the now.
I wonder. Suppose one of my theme park utopias sprung up somewhere, and people started moving in. How would traditional governments react to that?
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 27, 2010, 05:34:53 PM
I was trying to reframe that perspective so that it would fit what I was trying to get at. There's no utopia, because of UT3's points, but there are many conceivable ways to cheat human nature's priggish anti-utopian tendencies. Some of them are rosier, some of them are more fun in the now.
I wonder. Suppose one of my theme park utopias sprung up somewhere, and people started moving in. How would traditional governments react to that?
They would kill you all.
Yeah, I think so too.
I guess this means the robot revolution will just have to be a bit messy. Oh well.