Hey, do you guys know anything about some movement called Zeitgeist? A friend of mine has recently gone through a phase similar to one I had last summer. He watched this documentary put out by these guys, and it's become his Illuminatus! in a sense. Anyway, he's really into this movement, and I'd like to be able to discuss it with him. I haven't had time enough lately to do anything more than peruse these guy's website. Anyone know anything?
P.S. Not asking you guys to do my research for me, just asking whether you guys know the basics or someplace I can start when I have the time.
the movie's all over the intarweb. it came out a decent number of years ago.
i didn't know there was anything more to it than the movie.
some of it's interesting. some of it's crap.
some people have latched onto crazyconspiracymovie as infallible Truth.
if your friend is calling it a 'movement' i'm guessing he's one of 'em...
Quotesome people have latched onto crazyconspiracymovie as infallible Truth.
if your friend is calling it a 'movement' i'm guessing he's one of 'em...
He's convince that all of the world's problems can be traced back to the government, or to big business. So yeah, he's one of them.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on April 27, 2010, 02:58:14 AM
Quotesome people have latched onto crazyconspiracymovie as infallible Truth.
if your friend is calling it a 'movement' i'm guessing he's one of 'em...
He's convince that all of the world's problems can be traced back to the government, or to big business. So yeah, he's one of them.
well, that's not terribly unfounded....
but i bet he's buying a whole bunch of other crap, too.
heh. i just looked up their website, zeitgeistmovement.com
man, they're probably raking in the money.
i gotta do that shit some day....
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/
You're welcome.
Hahahah. Yeah, RAW and Robert Shea definitely wove myth and conspiracy better than these guys. Mostly because they kept going, "Oh, so you Really Believe That? Here have a taste of this completely contradictory model...."
Thanks for the link to the breakdown, Iason.
"This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC"
:spittake:
Quote from: Pēleus on April 27, 2010, 06:31:46 AM
"This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC"
:spittake:
He is the Sun God, he is The One God, RAH RAH RAH.
(http://phoenix.fanster.com/files/2009/04/cheer.jpg)
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on April 27, 2010, 11:08:33 AM
Quote from: Pēleus on April 27, 2010, 06:31:46 AM
"This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC"
:spittake:
Isis Isis Isis, Ra Ra Ra!
(http://phoenix.fanster.com/files/2009/04/cheer.jpg)
fixt to be Bumper sticker I like
Quotehttp://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/
You're welcome.
Thanks.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_MovementConcepts Advocated by The Zeitgeist Movement
* No money: money creates established institutions that are forced to protect themselves which inhibits progress[7].
* Automation: Automation is more productive than human labor and frees mankind from repetitive and tedious tasks[8].
* Artificial intelligence: Machines are needed to make decisions objectively, unlike humans who are susceptible to personal projections, desires or bias. Machines are also needed to store and retrieve information because humans have a limited capacity for memory.[9].
* Technological unification of the globe: Globally shared technology is required to monitor planetary resources[10].
* Scientific methodology: Planetary government is obligated to methodology not individuals. Governing decisions are arrived at through scientific method, not belief[11].
* No property: Property is wasteful and unsustainable.[12].
* Sustainable city systems:Belief in a unified systems approach. Systems theory and a systemic approach for a self-sustaining globe and culture can be modeled on a smaller scale with a city-size system[13].
How can biased thinking humans program an objectively deciding machine?
However, I'd like to be in the developer team of that piece of software.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_MovementConcepts Advocated by The Zeitgeist Movement
* No money: money creates established institutions that are forced to protect themselves which inhibits progress[7].
* Automation: Automation is more productive than human labor and frees mankind from repetitive and tedious tasks[8].
* Artificial intelligence: Machines are needed to make decisions objectively, unlike humans who are susceptible to personal projections, desires or bias. Machines are also needed to store and retrieve information because humans have a limited capacity for memory.[9].
* Technological unification of the globe: Globally shared technology is required to monitor planetary resources[10].
* Scientific methodology: Planetary government is obligated to methodology not individuals. Governing decisions are arrived at through scientific method, not belief[11].
* No property: Property is wasteful and unsustainable.[12].
* Sustainable city systems:Belief in a unified systems approach. Systems theory and a systemic approach for a self-sustaining globe and culture can be modeled on a smaller scale with a city-size system[13].
* No primates: Only entities that can prove they are not primates are permitted. History has shown that any time primate have been added to a system, they break it. Therefore, no monkeys allowed.
Fixed to provide the only way this thing will work.
Quote from: LMNO on April 27, 2010, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_MovementConcepts Advocated by The Zeitgeist Movement
* No money: money creates established institutions that are forced to protect themselves which inhibits progress[7].
* Automation: Automation is more productive than human labor and frees mankind from repetitive and tedious tasks[8].
* Artificial intelligence: Machines are needed to make decisions objectively, unlike humans who are susceptible to personal projections, desires or bias. Machines are also needed to store and retrieve information because humans have a limited capacity for memory.[9].
* Technological unification of the globe: Globally shared technology is required to monitor planetary resources[10].
* Scientific methodology: Planetary government is obligated to methodology not individuals. Governing decisions are arrived at through scientific method, not belief[11].
* No property: Property is wasteful and unsustainable.[12].
* Sustainable city systems:Belief in a unified systems approach. Systems theory and a systemic approach for a self-sustaining globe and culture can be modeled on a smaller scale with a city-size system[13].
* No primates: Only entities that can prove they are not primates are permitted. History has shown that any time primate have been added to a system, they break it. Therefore, no monkeys allowed.
Fixed to provide the only way this thing will work.
You've been on this kick for a while now... did something bad happen personally lately?
I'll only say this once, because I've been thinking it for a while and biting my tongue... and further, I won't be back in to argue it because I fully admit it is a belief of mine and not backed up by any evidence, so there would be no point arguing it... but you do realize that the type of thinking you are promoting above is basically a cop out, making an excuse for our shitty behaviour and hiding behind the "Oh well, I'm a monkey, that's how we are and always will be", right? Just saying.
I'm just pointing out that the Zeitgeist propositions run diametrically opposed to the way that humans, when grouped together, tend to act given a long enough timeline. While I'm not saying that individuals will always revert to primate behavior in every situation and that rationality is impossible, I am saying that building a system on the idea that they won't behave that way is, well, silly at best and disingenuous at worst.
Quote from: LMNO on April 27, 2010, 05:03:21 PM
I'm just pointing out that the Zeitgeist propositions run diametrically opposed to the way that humans, when grouped together, tend to act given a long enough timeline. While I'm not saying that individuals will always revert to primate behavior in every situation and that rationality is impossible, I am saying that building a system on the idea that they won't behave that way is, well, silly at best and disingenuous at worst.
That's just more of the same, but ok.
Well, let's look into this further... What structures are in place for the ZG movement that will limit, for example, tribalistic xenophobia?
It's possible that the brief list above simply doesn't map out any safeguards that are in place. I'm willing to listen.
Quote from: LMNO on April 27, 2010, 05:11:50 PM
Well, let's look into this further... What structures are in place for the ZG movement that will limit, for example, tribalistic xenophobia?
It's possible that the brief list above simply doesn't map out any safeguards that are in place. I'm willing to listen.
I have no idea, I don't know anything about the issue... my complaint was off-topic and I retract it. Sorry about that.
Please continue.
Just for the record, I'm not mad, nor am I pissed or in a fighting mood.
That stance is just an idea I've come across, and has tended to serve me well when looking at systems of governance; and it tends to be supported by history.
I do understand that I can be wrong, and that such a veiw has the potential of being horribly pessimistic.
Also for the record, a part of me agrees with you... but part of me, not so much.
I had much the same reaction as LMNO when my roommate had me read a PDF of the Venus Project plan / thing.
It's a post-scarcity society with a world government run by Multivac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivac). Everything is done in the most "efficient" way possible, as determined by Multivac and it's complement of technocratic-scientist-engineer-priests. The post-scarcity part is achieved by a) forcing manufacturers of consumer goods be less wasteful and b) conquering the world and running it with a supercomputer. The resources we save from forcing car companies to not make cars that break on purpose after 5-10 years and other manufacturers from using disposable packaging / disposable anything will be enough to provide every person on earth with an awesome standard of living. Note that money is not used; there is simply so much stuff that people can take whatever they want. But since they can have whatever they want, they don't feel the need to actually have it, so people don't end up wasting resources by accumulating and/or consuming resources they don't need.
It's a society that hopes that artists and scientists are ambitious (since there is no mechanism for them to produce anything besides self-motivation) while also hoping that no one else is ambitious (since it wants everyone else to be satisfied with the status quo.) It's a society that's predicated on the idea that the entire world is happy turning over control of their economy and legal systems to a bunch of engineers with a fancy computer, against every single independence movement ever. It's a society based on the idea that a group of technocrats, accountable to no one, will always think only of how to benefit the human race.
There are systems that try to harness aspects of the human nature for the greater good (I'm thinking regulated capitalism) and systems that try to limit the damage that can be done thereby (spreading power, checks and balances) and those have a hard time dealing with the people who run the. This isn't one of those categories - it's actively ignoring the human nature of the people who run it.
Just at first glance they seemed to be technocrats. Just reading up on their website at school today, they seem to place a lot of emphasis on attacking every problem via scientific method, and arranging anything that can't be analyzed that way until it can be.
And thanks for the info guys. Satzanfang especially, for the summary.