Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Dysnomia on April 28, 2010, 06:22:18 AM

Title: Robin Hood
Post by: Dysnomia on April 28, 2010, 06:22:18 AM
Suu: what do you think of the costumes?   :lulz:



Everyone else: What do you all think?
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Sir Squid Diddimus on April 28, 2010, 06:30:02 AM
 :?  haven't seen it? don't wanna?
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: the last yatto on April 28, 2010, 09:44:46 AM
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6756/bbcrobinhood11.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/bbcrobinhood11.jpg/) (c) BBC :1fap:
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Richter on April 28, 2010, 11:18:46 AM
I suppose there's a reason for someone to havea Mongolian bow in medieval Britain?
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Rumckle on April 28, 2010, 11:46:34 AM
I think in that TV series he brought his bow back with him from the crusades. IIRC
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: the last yatto on April 28, 2010, 11:56:49 AM
yep they even have a Muslim Saracen with the boys in the forrest
interview with her after the first season
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrgZ6DGdzmw
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Kai on April 28, 2010, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: Rumckle on April 28, 2010, 11:46:34 AM
I think in that TV series he brought his bow back with him from the crusades. IIRC

At least they give a reason for the inconsistency. I don't recall anything in the legend about him fighting mongols though.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Richter on April 28, 2010, 12:58:28 PM
I'll have to read up on styles of 10-1200's Saracen bow styles, the design looks a bit farther east.  Cross pollination in gear happened though, so I'll give them that much.

Costumes I'm letting Suu take.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Cramulus on April 28, 2010, 03:16:20 PM
what are we talkinga bout? Is this a movie or something?


also: historical accuracy, historical shmaccuracy
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: LMNO on April 28, 2010, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on April 28, 2010, 03:16:20 PM
what are we talkinga bout? Is this a movie or something?


New Movie with Russell Crow, Ridley Scott directing.  Essentially, the "Robin Hood: Origins" story.

Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: AFK on April 28, 2010, 03:24:05 PM
Looks like an interesting movie.  I liked Gladiator and Ridley Scott has produced some pretty good movies and TV shows.  I think he was behind Numb3rs IIRC. 
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:26:42 PM
Please to note: He also has a scimitar. Obvious Eastern kit is obvious. Why? Robin Hood fought in the Crusades, that's why. Spoils of war from the Arabs and Turks.

There was enough trade going on throughout Europe that could have easily brought Eastern designs into use, however, into England is a bit different, because it would have had to travel quite far and England was always "behind the times" when it came to things such as weaponry and clothing until the Italians took over most of the trade from the Silk Road. At the time of Robin Hood (12th-13th century) the Byzantine Empire was still the stronghold of Eastern trade and a lot of goods didn't make it too far past the Holy Roman Empire. They were greedy and they didn't want the good stuff getting far. However, it's still not impossible, especially for Crusaders.

As for the clothing, the BBC version of Robin Hood is actually quite good sans the decorative aspect of things. Pullover jerkins were definitely in use as a thin armor, that leather bog coat should probably go, and the boots probably wouldn't have pullover, they should be closed by buckles or ties and wrapped tightly with wool, linen, or leather to support the ankle and help keep your feet dry in the damp woods. Other than that, not enough fabric. They're wearing early Renaissance cuts instead of something more to the correct time period. Their pants are very incorrect, should be hose or trewes and braies.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1100%E2%80%931200_in_fashion

Tunics were larger and less tailored. They were still following Roman patterns (and continued to do so well into the 1500s in some places) and didn't have the knowledge of pattern drafting yet. It even took Italy another 200 years to get it.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:29:23 PM
...and don't even get me started on the movie. I'm going for pretty shinies, like Gladiator. I'm turning off the accuracy alarm when I go in to see it, because I accidentally left it on when I saw Clash of the Titans.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: hooplala on April 28, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:29:23 PMI accidentally left it on when I saw Clash of the Titans.

Do tell!  Or did I miss where you talked about it?
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 03:35:51 PM
it's a miracle they all have such perfect teeth, neatly trimmed fingernails and smooth shaven neck hairs!
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on April 28, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:29:23 PMI accidentally left it on when I saw Clash of the Titans.

Do tell!  Or did I miss where you talked about it?

It's not worth it. It's a fantasy movie, not a historical one.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Richter on April 28, 2010, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:26:42 PM
Please to note: He also has a scimitar. Obvious Eastern kit is obvious. Why? Robin Hood fought in the Crusades, that's why. Spoils of war from the Arabs and Turks.

There was enough trade going on throughout Europe that could have easily brought Eastern designs into use, however, into England is a bit different, because it would have had to travel quite far and England was always "behind the times" when it came to things such as weaponry and clothing until the Italians took over most of the trade from the Silk Road. At the time of Robin Hood (12th-13th century) the Byzantine Empire was still the stronghold of Eastern trade and a lot of goods didn't make it too far past the Holy Roman Empire. They were greedy and they didn't want the good stuff getting far. However, it's still not impossible, especially for Crusaders.


There were also several eastern - influenced european counterparts.  Polish sabers are a good example of this.

Not to mention that curved slicing and chopping swords were popular just about everywhere.  (falchions or grossemessers)
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Dysnomia on April 28, 2010, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:29:23 PM
...and don't even get me started on the movie. I'm going for pretty shinies, like Gladiator. I'm turning off the accuracy alarm when I go in to see it, because I accidentally left it on when I saw Clash of the Titans.

Yes, I was wondering what you thought of the movie.

But now I am a bit more curious to know what you think of TITANS THAT ARE CLASHING



:lulz:
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: hooplala on April 28, 2010, 04:11:34 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 03:35:51 PM
it's a miracle they all have such perfect teeth

I can't remember where, but I read somewhere that our concept of people in the Middle Ages having rotten teeth is pretty much a myth.  I seem to recall it said that their teeth were largely better than ours, due to not being exposed to refined sugar.

Now, mind you, I can't even recall where I read that, so take it for what its worth...
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 04:15:49 PM
makes sense. but there's also the straightness that the average American without a dental plan can't even afford.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2010, 04:16:25 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 04:15:49 PM
makes sense. but there's also the straightness that the average American without a dental plan can't even afford.

And the hair.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: Richter on April 28, 2010, 03:51:25 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:26:42 PM
Please to note: He also has a scimitar. Obvious Eastern kit is obvious. Why? Robin Hood fought in the Crusades, that's why. Spoils of war from the Arabs and Turks.

There was enough trade going on throughout Europe that could have easily brought Eastern designs into use, however, into England is a bit different, because it would have had to travel quite far and England was always "behind the times" when it came to things such as weaponry and clothing until the Italians took over most of the trade from the Silk Road. At the time of Robin Hood (12th-13th century) the Byzantine Empire was still the stronghold of Eastern trade and a lot of goods didn't make it too far past the Holy Roman Empire. They were greedy and they didn't want the good stuff getting far. However, it's still not impossible, especially for Crusaders.


There were also several eastern - influenced european counterparts.  Polish sabers are a good example of this.

Not to mention that curved slicing and chopping swords were popular just about everywhere.  (falchions or grossemessers)

Falchions were a Greek design that stuck around. Polish (and naturally, Lithuanian) swords got their design right from the Ottoman Empire. There was a lot of trade with the Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom from Venice and Constantinople. This is why they were probably some of the best dressed people in Europe. Ask Tristan.  :lulz:
Quote from: Hoopla on April 28, 2010, 04:11:34 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 03:35:51 PM
it's a miracle they all have such perfect teeth

I can't remember where, but I read somewhere that our concept of people in the Middle Ages having rotten teeth is pretty much a myth.  I seem to recall it said that their teeth were largely better than ours, due to not being exposed to refined sugar.

Now, mind you, I can't even recall where I read that, so take it for what its worth...

They did brush their teeth. They didn't have the same technology we do now, but they did care for them the best they could. The nobles actually had worse teeth because they wouldn't eat as much calcium and other nutrients because milk and veggies were considered peasant food, but the peasants would get their teeth ground down over time from eating too much rough breads (the milling process often left little rocks in the dough).  Peasants were generally healthier as well. They weren't clean, but then again nobody was since it was a sign of piety, but they were more physically active and had a better diet by today's standards. Archaeological finds support this.

Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2010, 04:20:21 PM
Life expectancy (minus infant mortality) was?
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 04:23:34 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 28, 2010, 04:15:49 PM
makes sense. but there's also the straightness that the average American without a dental plan can't even afford.

I believe I read somewhere that human teeth were actually straighter prior to the onset of severe inbreeding during the Renaissance and Enlightment. (HAPSBURG!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!: ). Considering I have lines to Hapsburg/Trastamara and Tudor, I'm lucky I'm STILL not a slobbering idiot.

-Suu
Related to at least 80% of Europe. At least.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Suu on April 28, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2010, 04:20:21 PM
Life expectancy (minus infant mortality) was?

See also: Dislike of bathing for EVERYONE because some Byzantine monk thought it was a bad idea. Dirty = Jesus. The nobles believed this just as much as the peasants. Queen Isabella boasted that she only had 2 baths in her life, one being at birth, and one before her marriage.

Average life expectancy was in the 40s, women and infants had a higher mortality rate because of sepsis (Why? because they didn't wash their damn cooter before and after birth). Those that went above and beyond "The Law" lived longer. Like Eleanor of Aquitaine.
Title: Re: Robin Hood
Post by: Iason Ouabache on April 29, 2010, 12:58:38 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on April 28, 2010, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 28, 2010, 03:29:23 PMI accidentally left it on when I saw Clash of the Titans.

Do tell!  Or did I miss where you talked about it?

It's not worth it. It's a fantasy movie, not a historical one.
I thought that you were going to start blogging all of this stuff.