"All of them, all except Phineas, constructed at infinite cost to themselves these Maginot Lines against this enemy they thought they saw across the frontier, this enemy who never attacked that way-if he ever attacked at all; if he was indeed the enemy." -John Knowles, A Separate Peace
It all starts with pixels on a screen.
They coalesce into the faces of people never met, maybe never spoken to, and those faces are where the ideas come from. The ideas, the fragments of Discordia, the parts which will never be made into a whole. Each perspective lends another piece of the image that appears amidst the clutter; the fleeting sight of a greater thing. Some pieces are more clear. Some are ethereal. Some are brilliant and shining and some are vaguely more integral to the structure, seen flashing in the blink of an eye, that won't be completed. Never discount that the impressive work of this construct was done by those pixels on the screen. But they are not the architect.
This architect builds skyscrapers and art galleries, builds cubicle farms and computer towers and prisons. The architect is mad and hilarious and hopeless. Connections which could not be true are made real. Supporting beams are made where there were only small bits of substance. Arguments are won with support of foundations impossibly strong that exist entirely by conviction. Lovely conviction. Self deluded conviction that convinces the architect one fragment of a Discordia that can never be whole is more valid than the rest. All that it ends with is a grumbling bunch of mad fools clinging to their sweet darling thoughts, oblivious that so much more can be made should they share perspectives.
There need be no singular uniting vision nor goal nor collective. There certainly should be no hive mind. All that there should be is an ability to look upon this wealth of ideas and see their potential, individually or compounded. That will be painful. It will take curbing pride, and struggles of words and thoughts. It's entirely worth it.
We are the sufficiently creative minds, and we've created enemies amongst each other where there are none. Instead, use these resources to make something incredible.
I'm not sure if I missed the keypoint - though, Collaboration has always made some of the best things.
But would you say Collaborating on a project, and being direct by a Project Leader - is that the same as a Hive Mind? Becaues in-order to collaborate you would need to have the same image?
Though I think I am derailing from the point.
Regardless.
QuoteInstead, use these resources to make something incredible.
:mittens:
Excellent
Quote from: NotPubli on May 04, 2010, 06:58:08 AM
I'm not sure if I missed the keypoint - though, Collaboration has always made some of the best things.
But would you say Collaborating on a project, and being direct by a Project Leader - is that the same as a Hive Mind? Becaues in-order to collaborate you would need to have the same image?
Though I think I am derailing from the point.
Regardless.
QuoteInstead, use these resources to make something incredible.
:mittens:
Collaboration is not the hive mind. It's working together with a goal in mind. That goal may differ between people in the project, and the end result could be better than any of them imagine individually. Hive mind would be if we all agreed on everything no matter what, which is most definitely not something I'd advocate.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about derailing from the point. I think I made it too vague. The idea was to address several subjects in the same words to mean different things depending on the perspective. It may have worked less well than I'd like.
It could be just me, I don't understand what it means for a 'Hive Mind', or what is the issue(s) behind it are.
Hive Mind = sorta like Ants?
Quote from: NotPubli on May 04, 2010, 11:10:12 PM
It could be just me, I don't understand what it means for a 'Hive Mind', or what is the issue(s) behind it are.
Hive Mind = sorta like Ants?
Hive mind is a frequent accusation of trolls, but really all I was saying in that regard is that it's not what I'm advocating in case all the rest of it happened to be pointing in that direction.
But yes hive mind = sorta like ants. Or bees, which live in hives.
Quote from: EoC on May 04, 2010, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: NotPubli on May 04, 2010, 11:10:12 PM
It could be just me, I don't understand what it means for a 'Hive Mind', or what is the issue(s) behind it are.
Hive Mind = sorta like Ants?
Hive mind is a frequent accusation of trolls, but really all I was saying in that regard is that it's not what I'm advocating in case all the rest of it happened to be pointing in that direction.
But yes hive mind = sorta like ants. Or bees, which live in hives.
That's the metaphor, but the deeper idea is that of a superorganism consisting of many minds that seem to behave in a coordinated way reminiscent of a single mind. At times, flocks of people on the internet may appear to be a hive mind. Like when tens of thousands of people start doing or saying the same thing for the same reasons at the same time. It's scary, but it's kind of cool too.
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT HIVE MINDS. :crankey:
Let's discuss a solution in this thread. Without the pro-hive-mind populist crap, if you please. The problem is not that dissent exists, but that our current group efforts are flawed and the collaborators are delirious and self-referential.
Well there is collaboratiobn on the OMFs right? The effort comes down from the individual - the only solution I can see is if people do what they say they are going to do.
I don't know that there's anything to solve. It seems to me like a lot of people around here are seeing enemies where there aren't any. It's costing us a constructive environment to the point where not only have a bunch of people flounced but a bunch of heavy contributors have expressed they no longer see the point in trying to communicate any longer.
I'd like there to be a wake up call. We aren't the fucking nemesis. People here rarely mean the most absolute ill toward other regular posters, and so often our discussions are taken as such. A few very interesting avenues of thought have crashed because of petty bullshit.
My concept was that the law of fives is applying to our estimation of one another, creating adversaries where there should be none.
I'm not saying we need to agree all the time, which is I think what was previously confusing. Just that when we disagree - which we should, and we will - it need not be personal.
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:24:49 AM
It seems to me like a lot of people around here are seeing enemies where there aren't any.
Depends, I suppose, on your perspective. I had at least one enemy where I thought I had a friend.
Not sure how that happened, though a few ugly suspicions
have gone through my admittedly damaged mind.
Ahhh ... That makes sense. I doubt that most of our regulars mean any ill-will to one another, but when things are thought to be a personal attack - then things fall apart.
I understand with what you mean however.
Though that may not be the reason for the blockage of creativity - I stopped attempting to contribute, because I realised that I have nothing significant or important to say.
Been lurking much much more
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 03:41:04 AM
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:24:49 AM
It seems to me like a lot of people around here are seeing enemies where there aren't any.
Depends, I suppose, on your perspective. I had at least one enemy where I thought I had a friend.
Not sure how that happened, though a few ugly suspicions have gone through my admittedly damaged mind.
Is he really out to get you? I think he said some harsh shit, maybe vented some frustration, but I can't say he's after you specifically. Of course, there could be more the story that I'm missing.
Quote from: NotPubli on May 05, 2010, 03:51:14 AM
Ahhh ... That makes sense. I doubt that most of our regulars mean any ill-will to one another, but when things are thought to be a personal attack - then things fall apart.
I understand with what you mean however.
Though that may not be the reason for the blockage of creativity - I stopped attempting to contribute, because I realised that I have nothing significant or important to say.
Been lurking much much more
I've been writing a rant or two a day, anyway. Just because.
Dok,
Knows spite has its uses.
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 03:41:04 AM
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:24:49 AM
It seems to me like a lot of people around here are seeing enemies where there aren't any.
Depends, I suppose, on your perspective. I had at least one enemy where I thought I had a friend.
Not sure how that happened, though a few ugly suspicions have gone through my admittedly damaged mind.
Is he really out to get you? I think he said some harsh shit, maybe vented some frustration, but I can't say he's after you specifically. Of course, there could be more the story that I'm missing.
Does it matter? I was enjoying an admittedly heated debate with a few people, and he comes in playing white knight and telling me that I'm a disease or some shit on PD.
Then I start another thread, not so heated, more of a discussion than a debate, and he shows up and does it again.
At that point, there's no doubt, in my mind.
Also, everyone lurking = nothing but the fucking drama left actually being posted.
Be the board you want to see.
On that note, the drama could just be a normal occurance, its just more obvious now
Quote from: NotPubli on May 05, 2010, 04:26:26 AM
On that note, the drama could just be a normal occurance, its just more obvious now
Drain the lake, see all the wiggly stuff on the bottom.
Everyone's fucking wimping out at once. Fucking crying about drama and in the same breath talking about "lurking", and not posting something meaningful to counteract the drama.
This is fucking Discordia. Wear a goddamn hat. Or puss out like Paes and be done with it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 03:54:40 AM
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:52:35 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 03:41:04 AM
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 03:24:49 AM
It seems to me like a lot of people around here are seeing enemies where there aren't any.
Depends, I suppose, on your perspective. I had at least one enemy where I thought I had a friend.
Not sure how that happened, though a few ugly suspicions have gone through my admittedly damaged mind.
Is he really out to get you? I think he said some harsh shit, maybe vented some frustration, but I can't say he's after you specifically. Of course, there could be more the story that I'm missing.
Does it matter? I was enjoying an admittedly heated debate with a few people, and he comes in playing white knight and telling me that I'm a disease or some shit on PD.
Then I start another thread, not so heated, more of a discussion than a debate, and he shows up and does it again.
At that point, there's no doubt, in my mind.
Still, I wish some benefit of the doubt could be given. People have bad days, people have bad weeks. That said, I'm sure you're aware of my stance with this and other posts I've made on the subject. I'll refrain from further comment. It is, after all, between you and Trip.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 04:36:17 AM
Quote from: NotPubli on May 05, 2010, 04:26:26 AM
On that note, the drama could just be a normal occurance, its just more obvious now
Drain the lake, see all the wiggly stuff on the bottom.
Everyone's fucking wimping out at once. Fucking crying about drama and in the same breath talking about "lurking", and not posting something meaningful to counteract the drama.
This is fucking Discordia. Wear a goddamn hat. Or puss out like Paes and be done with it.
THIS is what I'm saying here, part of the message. It's not that everyone should get along, it's that we should suck it up and continue on when the bad shit happens instead of making enemies.
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
Still, I wish some benefit of the doubt could be given. People have bad days, people have bad weeks. That said, I'm sure you're aware of my stance with this and other posts I've made on the subject. I'll refrain from further comment. It is, after all, between you and Trip.
It's between Trip and Trip. I don't know what his problem is, and I can't tell him how to behave or what to think. Until and unless he gets his shit together, I have to treat him as an adversary. I don't plan to go out of my way to do so, but I'm not going to let him shit on me, either.
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
THIS is what I'm saying here, part of the message. It's not that everyone should get along, it's that we should suck it up and continue on when the bad shit happens instead of making enemies.
Discordia has ALWAYS had DISCORD. It's part of the whole deal. So is fluff. So is kick-ass ranting and pranks.
It all goes together. Kill one part of it, and the whole damn thing starts to fall apart. Shit hasn't been right around here since the big crusade to end the fluff a month or so back. It's been one long goddamn drama fest ever since then, or people whimpering about the drama like it's something fucking new, and people I used to RESPECT (like Paes) wimping the fuck out and buggering off because someone spilled some icky drama on the HEM OF THEIR FUCKING SKIRTS.
These silly bastards don't know chaos. They get a look at it, and they run away like shrieking little girls.
Fuck that noise.
Ooo my favourite one ~
"Mix me some cement and harden the fuck up"
It seems I have missed something pretty big (the Trip thing?) anyhow if people keep holding onto the past then of course it's gonna reoccur ... Isn't it one of those 'go with the flow' kinda things?
Quote from: NotPubli on May 05, 2010, 05:12:48 AM
Ooo my favourite one ~
"Mix me some cement and harden the fuck up"
It seems I have missed something pretty big (the Trip thing?) anyhow if people keep holding onto the past then of course it's gonna reoccur ... Isn't it one of those 'go with the flow' kinda things?
Well, this was like 4 days ago. And then yesterday.
But yeah.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 04:56:20 AM
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
Still, I wish some benefit of the doubt could be given. People have bad days, people have bad weeks. That said, I'm sure you're aware of my stance with this and other posts I've made on the subject. I'll refrain from further comment. It is, after all, between you and Trip.
It's between Trip and Trip. I don't know what his problem is, and I can't tell him how to behave or what to think. Until and unless he gets his shit together, I have to treat him as an adversary. I don't plan to go out of my way to do so, but I'm not going to let him shit on me, either.
Quote from: EoC on May 05, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
THIS is what I'm saying here, part of the message. It's not that everyone should get along, it's that we should suck it up and continue on when the bad shit happens instead of making enemies.
Discordia has ALWAYS had DISCORD. It's part of the whole deal. So is fluff. So is kick-ass ranting and pranks.
It all goes together. Kill one part of it, and the whole damn thing starts to fall apart. Shit hasn't been right around here since the big crusade to end the fluff a month or so back. It's been one long goddamn drama fest ever since then, or people whimpering about the drama like it's something fucking new, and people I used to RESPECT (like Paes) wimping the fuck out and buggering off because someone spilled some icky drama on the HEM OF THEIR FUCKING SKIRTS.
These silly bastards don't know chaos. They get a look at it, and they run away like shrieking little girls.
Fuck that noise.
The whole thing is a reflection of a state of mind. I said in the OP that Discordia is a structure fleeting in shape that can never be completed. So is a world view.
I've seen it said before of pd.com that it's a relief to come here, a means of release or of identification with others. I've heard it calms troubled thoughts. It can for me, on occasion. It's not like this because it's a peaceful place, some picture of tranquility. This is a place where the head can be in the reality that truly is - chaos. That's the familiarity, that's the draw. Sometimes it's the only thing that makes goddamn sense.
When I read it the big thing that came to me was the idea that 'battling the greyface' is really a way to express the struggle againt the suffocation of seriousless and blandness that we largely uncvonciously subject ourselves to.
However, instead of this kind of recognition that we're fighting a battle in our own heads, for the freedom of our own mind, there seems to be this idea that there in fact is an 'enemy greyface', not in your head but 'out there'. And if we can work out what he is (the politicians, institutions, schools, corporations, neocons etc) we can make war with it.
I'm all for fighting windmills, as long as we don't forget they're windmills.
Anyway, the whole part of the thingy talking about inventing enemies, kind of tied in with this idea set that I've had floating around for a bit.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 05, 2010, 10:58:43 AM
When I read it the big thing that came to me was the idea that 'battling the greyface' is really a way to express the struggle againt the suffocation of seriousless and blandness that we largely uncvonciously subject ourselves to.
However, instead of this kind of recognition that we're fighting a battle in our own heads, for the freedom of our own mind, there seems to be this idea that there in fact is an 'enemy greyface', not in your head but 'out there'. And if we can work out what he is (the politicians, institutions, schools, corporations, neocons etc) we can make war with it.
I'm all for fighting windmills, as long as we don't forget they're windmills.
Anyway, the whole part of the thingy talking about inventing enemies, kind of tied in with this idea set that I've had floating around for a bit.
I'd like to read more about this . . .
Allow me Friday night to spit something out.