The house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
These five pillars are:
The First Pillar: Discord. Drama and infighting have always been a part of PD, right from the very beginning. Sometimes it's low key, sometimes it's mad screeching and hollering, all over the board. It's not ALL of what Discordia is, but it IS an intrinsic part. If this makes you pull up your skirts and shriek, maybe you should find out wherever Paes scurried off to, and join him. Eris wants no sissies.
The Second Pillar: Fluff. Fluff has also always been part of PD. It's where we get some of our best ideas, and it's also a way people have fun. Remember fun? That thing you used to have before you became srsly srs? Now, I'm not advocating a return to the days when Hugh and Malaul ran through EVERY THREAD babbling about cookies and pie and tequila stabbity stabbity, but fluff threads themselves are pretty fucking obvious, and if you don't like it, don't click.
The recent attempt at a crackdown on fluff cut our user base by a third, and did not increase content. In fact, content went down with it. Nobody likes being humiliated publicly when their thread name is changed to some demeaning shit, or when someone comes onto a thread where people are having a conversation and berates them for having that conversation. Fluff never hurt a fucking thing, and it's actually half the reason many of our longer-term users still come here. If you're that butthurt by people having an innocent conversation, then an exciting new career in the cat-herding field, or perhaps the Mormon Church, may be for you.
The Third Pillar: Rants. This is fairly self-evident, but there's a couple of issues here that ought to be addressed. The first is that nobody is actually required to read your rants, or having read them, respond to them. Sometimes people don't have time or energy to dish out a page and a half describing your greatness and wit, and they express themselves with mittens. It's better than nothing. Granted, it IS disappointing to pound out a thousand words and get no responses, but life is full of little disappointments like this. If you can't handle it, go save the world with blogs. Or take over for Krugmann when he retires.
The other thing is derails. Threads ARE going to derail, but why fucking hurry it? Think before you post; if your gem of wisdom has nothing to do with the actual OP, start a new thread. On the other hand, when a legitimate point in a response causes the thread to drift, it's not the end of the world. The point is the discussion, not an endless rehash of the OP. If, however, you just feel the need to fuck with a thread to show how zany you are, don't cry when you get your very own unlimited thread.
The Fourth Pillar: Discussions/Projects/Pranks. If they're political, God help you. That being said, if you're bringing up the same argument for the 30th time, expect the same rebuttal for the 30th time. Also, if you're trying to convert people to libertarianism, Catholicism, Liberalism, Conservativism, etc, then you are probably at the wrong place, and while you are by all means welcome to remain, perhaps you should evangelize elsewhere. Of course, that's not what's going to happen, so wear a fucking helmet. And as for you who are offended by the 500th Libertarianism thread in a month, again, don't fucking click. How goddamn hard is it?
The beautiful thing about PD is, you can bring your latest genius idea here, whether it be political theory or an idea for a prank, throw it to the howling masses, and watch them tear it to bits. If it survives this place, it's almost certainly a valid idea. But don't whimper when it's ripped to bits. If that really bothers you, you probably should post it on a board that's already dedicated to something similar, where everyone will tell you what a genius you are.
The Fifth Pillar: Friends. Many of us have been here for years, and I consider many of you just as much of a friend as anyone in "real life" (with the exception that I probably haven't puked on you). If you're one of those people who thinks that treating people here like shit is okay and hilarious because "it's only the internet", then you're probably better off at 4Chan or Camp Idiot, among other psychopaths of your kind.
Now, please don't take the above as an order for certain types of people to vacate. Instead, think of the above as a set of suggestions as to where you might have better luck posting certain things or behaving a certain way when you feel the need. Eris' house has many rooms, and not everyone has to do everything in the bathroom. Fucking perverts.
Okay for now,
Dok
In my personal experience, pillars Three and Four are the most contradictory to Human Nature™. That is, people want to be told their work is valid and hate for their effort to be ignored; and people don't want their precious ideals™ to be dismissed.
But no one said this place would be easy.
that was great, man! I've thought for a while that this place needs something like a mission statement, and this works pretty well. I think it's actually a pretty good description of what we do here.
If I could change anything, I'd expand "pranks" into "projects" or "collaboration", because sometimes we work together on books and images and magazines and websites and things which aren't necessarily pranks. (I guess trolling is a form of pranking.)
Is it fair to say we put a high value on documents which can be distributed? Energy which carries our energy outside of PD and spreads the Good Word?
and how does the newbie fit into all of this?
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 07:46:27 PM
In my personal experience, pillars Three and Four are the most contradictory to Human Nature™. That is, people want to be told their work is valid and hate for their effort to be ignored; and people don't want their precious ideals™ to be dismissed.
But no one said this place would be easy.
Well, that's exactly it, and I can't count the number of times I've sat fuming because my latest turd-stained bucket of brilliance didn't gather 20 replies in the first 30 minutes. But then you get over it, and do something else. If the replies will come, they will come. Nobody is owed an audience, here or anywhere else.
If people want it easy, there's always the Myspace crowd. Or somewhere on the big boards. Easy is for lazy monkeys.
Quote from: Cramulus on May 05, 2010, 07:48:58 PM
If I could change anything, I'd expand "pranks" into "projects" or "collaboration", because sometimes we work together on books and images and magazines and websites and things which aren't necessarily pranks. (I guess trolling is a form of pranking.)
Right. I like that. Hang on and I'll edit it. Pranks are a form of project, I think.
Quote from: Cramulus on May 05, 2010, 07:48:58 PM
and how does the newbie fit into all of this?
Good question, I'm glad you asked.
I have no idea.
On topic, :mittens: @ the OP
Quote from: Cramulus on May 05, 2010, 07:48:58 PM
and how does the newbie fit into all of this?
I didn't think of that. I was addressing this more for the people who have been around a while, and become dissatisfied, or have developed the idea that the board has to be a certain way. Specifically, the people complaining about fluff and drama.
It's
always had fluff and drama.
However, it does also apply to noobs. A warning, if you will, that this isn't the Myspace Candyland Discordian crowd.
How it applies to N00bs:
Be honest, be clever, and hang the fuck on.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 07:59:07 PM
How it applies to N00bs:
Be honest, be clever, and hang the fuck on.
Exactly. Discordianism should require a hard hat, safety glasses, double-bagged condoms, and asbestos gloves.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PMThe house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
This is great. sort of an eye-opener, and definitely totally right.
The five individual points were good too,
complete (at least they seem complete for now, I have to think about it a bit).
On the subject of Cram's "Mission Statement", this might be a brilliant introduction on the frontpage, or linked from there?
Hey we could even paste it on top of the "license agreement" thing when signing up (except nobody ever reads those).
And on the subject of pranks. I like pranks a lot, it's a deep fundamental thing in Discordia for me. So could it be Discussions/Projects/Pranks? (even if pranks are of course projects)
Dok,
Nicely put. In fact, I think I've stuck around all these years because of all 5 pillars.
Sometimes my level of activity varies. I haven't been the biggest 'content producer' but then, I never tried to stake a claim to that.
What I think is happening to the board is that it's undergoing a phase of renewal. During the era of Hugh et al, it was pretty much fundamental pinealism all channels all the time. And I will be the first to admit that early on, my posts and posting style was in that mode. Not sure when, but somewhere along the way I shed that and adopted the approach that I have now which is, for the large part, my usual voice.
After 'the War' and the arrival of BIP, the board moved into a more austere version of it's former self. I think we were all so concerned to not become the people we despised (ie: outlandish types) that a much harder, more confrontational style emerged.
For a while, I think this was necessary. Purging the forum of endless re-runs of OMG, I JUST SUNK YOU11!! was essential. Now, it seems that the board is moving to perhaps a little more centrist position. It accepts conflict, it accepts fluff. It's starting to take on better communication and discussion habits.
I've noticed that people are trying to discuss subjects, sometimes this is successful, sometimes not. What I've noticed lately, and something which I didn't expect to see to be honest, is that there's more apologies and pleas for rationality and generally chilling the fuck out when things get a little too wrought.
When people complain about drama or infighting on the board, perhaps they don't realize how short lived it is now compared with how it was in 2005 when a single post could result in months of trench warfare.
Right now, I think the board is exiting it's hard ass phase and is moving onto what I hope, is a new level of maturity & insight. Yes, there will still be fluff and weird shit and no doubt a lot of gnashing of teeth and rending of garments but I hope that the responses to same will be of a more subtle nature.
Or perhaps I should just go fuck myself :lulz:
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 05, 2010, 08:01:19 PM
And on the subject of pranks. I like pranks a lot, it's a deep fundamental thing in Discordia for me. So could it be Discussions/Projects/Pranks? (even if pranks are of course projects)
Done.
I don't mind this going on the front page, but it was really written for the regulars.
Quote from: Mangrove on May 05, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
When people complain about drama or infighting on the board, perhaps they don't realize how short lived it is now compared with how it was in 2005 when a single post could result in months of trench warfare.
God, yes. It's hard to believe how bad things were back then.
Quote from: Mangrove on May 05, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Right now, I think the board is exiting it's hard ass phase and is moving onto what I hope, is a new level of maturity & insight. Yes, there will still be fluff and weird shit and no doubt a lot of gnashing of teeth and rending of garments but I hope that the responses to same will be of a more subtle nature.
That's my hope, too.
Quote from: Mangrove on May 05, 2010, 08:03:05 PM
Or perhaps I should just go fuck myself :lulz:
WEBCAM OR GTFO.
Mangrove, are you saying PD.com is entering the Age of Horus?
Blowing SSOOKN kisses,
LMNO.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:06:17 PM
Mangrove, are you saying PD.com is entering the Age of Horus?
Blowing SSOOKN kisses,
LMNO.
Oh how I so don't want to leave Crowley references in a decent topic, especially when the OP is Dok :lol:
But to answer your question, no. (To avoid thread drift, I will address this elsewhere)
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 07:59:07 PM
How it applies to N00bs:
Be honest, be clever, and hang the fuck on.
Exactly. Discordianism should require a hard hat, safety glasses, double-bagged condoms, and asbestos gloves.
I am printing up stickers AS WE SPEAK (well, AS SOON AS MY BOSS LEAVES FOR HER MEETING) that say "Life should require a hard hat, safety glasses, double-bagged condoms, and asbestos gloves." Because that is accurate.
Also, :mittens: for the OP. Although I do the majority of my posting in the fluff category, it is the presence of all five pillars in this forum that keeps me coming back. We got good shit here that you don't find elsewhere. We got good enough shit that I don't bother posting anywhere other than fluff unless I really think I have something really good to contribute--the majority of the posting that happens outside Fluff Land is
really good stuff, and I think sometimes when we're complaining about fluff, we forget that people aren't posting other stuff because sometimes we don't know what to say or have something ready and we're self-editing so that when we do actually post, it's worthwhile.
Like, our fluff is REALLY fluffy. But our good shit is SO GODDAMN GOOD. I think there's an interrelatedness there.
The OP was FUCKING GREAT. Rainbow mittens made of kittens and win!
This is something I can get behind.
Nice work, Dok. :mittens: Very nice work.
Very nicely put, Dok.
Reminded me of explaining one of the more esoteric Eris myths to my girlfriend (the one with Herakles). Considering the 'Pillar' metaphor, I'm going to post the myth below to remind us all that the greeks knew quite well what consequences attacking and hammering on Strife lead to:
http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Eris.html
QuoteAesop, Fables 534 (from Chambry 129) (trans. Gibbs) (Greek fable C6th B.C.) :
"Herakles was making his way through a narrow pass. He saw something that looked like an apple lying on the ground and he tried to smash it with his club. After having been struck by the club, the thing swelled up to twice its size. Herakles struck it again with his club, even harder than before, and the thing then expanded to such a size that it blocked Herakles's way. Herakles let go of his club and stood there, amazed. Athena saw him and said, `O Herakles, don't be so surprised! This thing that has brought about your confusion is Aporia (Contentiousness) and Eris (Strife). If you just leave it alone, it stays small; but if you decide to fight it, then it swells from its small size and grows large.'"
Yes to the OP, yes to the five pillars. ALL five of them.
The first pillar reminds me of the beneficial strife that Eris inspires, the competition between people and within themselves that leads to growth. I remember Cain mentioning this at one point.
OP is the last fucking word! I've complained for the last year or two that I don't have fuck all to contribute but that's my block. All other pillars apply. The drama. The fluff and, above all, the friendship. This board, over any other place, irl or interbutts, is the one place where I think, if I were to announce I had a terminal disease, there'd be people who gave a shit. That might merely be an indightment of my irl situation but I like to think it's more than that. Long live this place.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 05, 2010, 11:16:36 PM
OP is the last fucking word! I've complained for the last year or two that I don't have fuck all to contribute but that's my block. All other pillars apply. The drama. The fluff and, above all, the friendship. This board, over any other place, irl or interbutts, is the one place where I think, if I were to announce I had a terminal disease, there'd be people who gave a shit. That might merely be an indightment of my irl situation but I like to think it's more than that. Long live this place.
:cheers:
you're totally right about the terminal disease thing
we'd give
such a shit that we'd throw the best fuckin party ever
long live this sarterian xarlacc pit
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PM
The house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
These five pillars are:
The First Pillar: Discord. Drama and infighting have always been a part of PD, right from the very beginning. Sometimes it's low key, sometimes it's mad screeching and hollering, all over the board. It's not ALL of what Discordia is, but it IS an intrinsic part. If this makes you pull up your skirts and shriek, maybe you should find out wherever Paes scurried off to, and join him. Eris wants no sissies.
The Second Pillar: Fluff. Fluff has also always been part of PD. It's where we get some of our best ideas, and it's also a way people have fun. Remember fun? That thing you used to have before you became srsly srs? Now, I'm not advocating a return to the days when Hugh and Malaul ran through EVERY THREAD babbling about cookies and pie and tequila stabbity stabbity, but fluff threads themselves are pretty fucking obvious, and if you don't like it, don't click.
The recent attempt at a crackdown on fluff cut our user base by a third, and did not increase content. In fact, content went down with it. Nobody likes being humiliated publicly when their thread name is changed to some demeaning shit, or when someone comes onto a thread where people are having a conversation and berates them for having that conversation. Fluff never hurt a fucking thing, and it's actually half the reason many of our longer-term users still come here. If you're that butthurt by people having an innocent conversation, then an exciting new career in the cat-herding field, or perhaps the Mormon Church, may be for you.
The Third Pillar: Rants. This is fairly self-evident, but there's a couple of issues here that ought to be addressed. The first is that nobody is actually required to read your rants, or having read them, respond to them. Sometimes people don't have time or energy to dish out a page and a half describing your greatness and wit, and they express themselves with mittens. It's better than nothing. Granted, it IS disappointing to pound out a thousand words and get no responses, but life is full of little disappointments like this. If you can't handle it, go save the world with blogs. Or take over for Krugmann when he retires.
The other thing is derails. Threads ARE going to derail, but why fucking hurry it? Think before you post; if your gem of wisdom has nothing to do with the actual OP, start a new thread. On the other hand, when a legitimate point in a response causes the thread to drift, it's not the end of the world. The point is the discussion, not an endless rehash of the OP. If, however, you just feel the need to fuck with a thread to show how zany you are, don't cry when you get your very own unlimited thread.
The Fourth Pillar: Discussions/Projects/Pranks. If they're political, God help you. That being said, if you're bringing up the same argument for the 30th time, expect the same rebuttal for the 30th time. Also, if you're trying to convert people to libertarianism, Catholicism, Liberalism, Conservativism, etc, then you are probably at the wrong place, and while you are by all means welcome to remain, perhaps you should evangelize elsewhere. Of course, that's not what's going to happen, so wear a fucking helmet. And as for you who are offended by the 500th Libertarianism thread in a month, again, don't fucking click. How goddamn hard is it?
The beautiful thing about PD is, you can bring your latest genius idea here, whether it be political theory or an idea for a prank, throw it to the howling masses, and watch them tear it to bits. If it survives this place, it's almost certainly a valid idea. But don't whimper when it's ripped to bits. If that really bothers you, you probably should post it on a board that's already dedicated to something similar, where everyone will tell you what a genius you are.
The Fifth Pillar: Friends. Many of us have been here for years, and I consider many of you just as much of a friend as anyone in "real life" (with the exception that I probably haven't puked on you). If you're one of those people who thinks that treating people here like shit is okay and hilarious because "it's only the internet", then you're probably better off at 4Chan or Camp Idiot, among other psychopaths of your kind.
Now, please don't take the above as an order for certain types of people to vacate. Instead, think of the above as a set of suggestions as to where you might have better luck posting certain things or behaving a certain way when you feel the need. Eris' house has many rooms, and not everyone has to do everything in the bathroom. Fucking perverts.
Okay for now,
Dok
Seems like a good summary of how it has gone and how it should continue to do so.
Kind of amazing how this actually encapsulates everything I like about this place.
:mittens:
Dok this is beautiful.
Hell the fuck yeah. This is great stuff. We all need to be reminded not to take this place for granted once in a while and this is just the thing.
I miss being able to keep up with stuff during the day, cuz otherwise I almost miss stuff like this!
Very well done, Dok. Something similar to this has been floating around in my head the last few days because of your recent writing. I'm not sure if you intended it that way, but this acts like a climax to your work over the last few days.
Quote from: EoC on May 06, 2010, 04:30:28 AM
Very well done, Dok. Something similar to this has been floating around in my head the last few days because of your recent writing. I'm not sure if you intended it that way, but this acts like a climax to your work over the last few days.
Unintended. It was based on something I wrote in your thread.
This thread has been helpful (for me, at least) in differentiating between Pillars one, and four. It's all too easy to get distracted by infighting, and make some bone of contention your personal "project". And that isn't really that good. Knowing when to pick something up, should be balanced by knowing when to drop something.
I've always been quite good at picking up on stuff, but not knowing when to drop it, has sometimes meant that I have missed an opportunity to pick anything else up.
:mittens:
O think this is great, and although it may be addressed to the regulars I think it can also help to give noobs an idea of what to expect.
There has been talk for a few years now of revamping the PD. I would rather see a combination of the best of the rants, sermons and such here with this piece as the introduction or cover.
I really like this (which you know) but I think it needs to be out there for the people to see!!!
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 06, 2010, 03:30:05 PM
:mittens:
O think this is great, and although it may be addressed to the regulars I think it can also help to give noobs an idea of what to expect.
Maybe not what to expect, but more of a "the way things are when you're walking upright?"
Quote from: Khara on May 06, 2010, 03:34:30 PM
There has been talk for a few years now of revamping the PD. I would rather see a combination of the best of the rants, sermons and such here with this piece as the introduction or cover.
I really like this (which you know) but I think it needs to be out there for the people to see!!!
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 06, 2010, 03:30:05 PM
:mittens:
O think this is great, and although it may be addressed to the regulars I think it can also help to give noobs an idea of what to expect.
Maybe not what to expect, but more of a "the way things are when you're walking upright?"
To aspire to maybe?
OP: Digging it, nothing to add / comment on jsut yet though.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 06, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Khara on May 06, 2010, 03:34:30 PM
There has been talk for a few years now of revamping the PD. I would rather see a combination of the best of the rants, sermons and such here with this piece as the introduction or cover.
I really like this (which you know) but I think it needs to be out there for the people to see!!!
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 06, 2010, 03:30:05 PM
:mittens:
O think this is great, and although it may be addressed to the regulars I think it can also help to give noobs an idea of what to expect.
Maybe not what to expect, but more of a "the way things are when you're walking upright?"
To aspire to maybe?
Yeah, that works :mrgreen:
This should really head up a new "Even newer, Spiffier, Updated for 1688 Advice for noobs" thread. (Or at least be stuck on the old one)
Quote from: BadBeast on May 07, 2010, 02:06:44 AM
This should really head up a new "Even newer, Spiffier, Updated for 1688 Advice for noobs" thread. (Or at least be stuck on the old one)
No. This was for people who've been here.
Write your own thread.
Well done.
I have read the OP several times. I have looked for holes. In the end all I can say is excellent post.
ditto, plus i like the Islamic reference.
(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9608/safariundercover.jpg) (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/safariundercover.jpg/)
Quote from: Pēleus on May 17, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9608/safariundercover.jpg) (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/safariundercover.jpg/)
Interesting, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Fuck You Dok. That was an awesome post.
Quote from: Ratatosk on May 18, 2010, 04:14:15 PM
Fuck You Dok. That was an awesome post.
Thanks. It's had some effect, I think. Maybe enough, maybe not.
OP makes me want to be here again.
I enjoy fluff, fun, rants and friends. Discord seems to follow me and I'm not really slick with the pranks but I always enjoy laughing at some funny shit you did. I enjoy a good laugh at myself too.
I know some people can't help but be superior, self-important crackerheads and really, I don't mind. As long as no one treats each other like shit, I will gladly laugh at your jokes and admire your cleverness til the bitter end. Just don't assume I'm an idiot because I prefer to make jokes about my tits and act like I've got hallucinogens on an IV drip--it's MY party too. If I wanted to humiliate myself for my "ontological inferiority," I'd wear a chicken suit and read Cathy Guisewhite comics aloud at an Ayn Rand think-tank convention.
Aside: I have always liked you, Roger and I wouldn't mind letting you puke on me someday.
Quote from: navkat on May 21, 2010, 05:29:39 AM
Aside: I have always liked you, Roger and I wouldn't mind letting you puke on me someday.
Everyone says that, until they've seen what's in my puke. Oh, yes, then the story changes.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 21, 2010, 05:40:42 AM
Quote from: navkat on May 21, 2010, 05:29:39 AM
Aside: I have always liked you, Roger and I wouldn't mind letting you puke on me someday.
Everyone says that, until they've seen what's in my puke. Oh, yes, then the story changes.
Good thing it crawls away before you can get a good look at it.
Quote from: Nast on May 21, 2010, 05:41:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 21, 2010, 05:40:42 AM
Quote from: navkat on May 21, 2010, 05:29:39 AM
Aside: I have always liked you, Roger and I wouldn't mind letting you puke on me someday.
Everyone says that, until they've seen what's in my puke. Oh, yes, then the story changes.
Good thing it crawls away before you can get a good look at it.
You have to kill it with a shovel before it gets under the house. You're fucked if that happens.
I was sick on my mate's dog once. "Look what you've done, you sloppy bastard" he said.
I looked down and replied "I don't remember eating that"
Quote from: BadBeast on May 22, 2010, 03:00:54 PM
I was sick on my mate's dog once. "Look what you've done, you sloppy bastard" he said.
I looked down and replied "I don't remember eating that"
:mittens:
Quote from: BadBeast on May 22, 2010, 03:00:54 PM
I was sick on my mate's dog once. "Look what you've done, you sloppy bastard" he said.
I looked down and replied "I don't remember eating that"
:lulz:
What a waste of fucking time this was.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
:objection:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
least we arent cabbages...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
We may not be drastically different, but we ARE different. At the very least, we're AWARE of the inherent flaws of being human, where most others are not. Premise un-flawed.
We are different though. If there were 20 people, adrift at Sea in a lifeboat, it would be a given that hostilities might break out. There may be fighting, throwing each other overboard, factionalism, even Cannibalism. But if there is even one Discordian amongst them, he can always be easily identified.
He's the one knocking a hole in the bottom of the boat with a bloody great hammer. (And this, before the Ship has even finished sinking) :mrgreen:
Quote from: dimo on June 08, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
We may not be drastically different, but we ARE different. At the very least, we're AWARE of the inherent flaws of being human, where most others are not. Premise un-flawed.
Nope. Lots of non-discordians are also aware of the inherent flaws in being human. Still flawed. One of those flaws is elitism, and pretending that discordianism makes us a uniquely enlightened bunch is that. There are a lot more enlightened non-discordians than there are discordians.
Quote from: Nigel on June 09, 2010, 03:43:00 PM
Quote from: dimo on June 08, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
We may not be drastically different, but we ARE different. At the very least, we're AWARE of the inherent flaws of being human, where most others are not. Premise un-flawed.
Nope. Lots of non-discordians are also aware of the inherent flaws in being human. Still flawed. One of those flaws is elitism, and pretending that discordianism makes us a uniquely enlightened bunch is that. There are a lot more enlightened non-discordians than there are discordians.
This is the correct motorcycle.
Let us not forget that the Student who was seeking enlightenment was called a Shithead by many... mostly because he had shit on his head.
And anyway, even if Man is inherently flawed, when has that ever stopped us seeking perfection? I dare say there have even been individuals who have attained this state. If there haven't, then there will be.
We all have a subjective ideal of what perfection is, somewhere
in our flawed being, it comes along with whatever the fuck that apple was supposed to have done to us. Perhaps we only feel it's absence, it's loss. Maybe it's the price of that knowledge, (THAT Knowledge!) that we can only be aware of it, as an absence.
Even so, that awareness, is sometimes the only thing that justifies us taking our next breath
And if there is no validity in that ideal, because, as flawed creatures, we can never reach it, then we may as well just lie down on the floor, right now, and stay there until we are dead.
Our flaws and imperfections are the spur in our flanks that drive us on. Our awareness of them, a unique quality of our species. And our species is one of the largest dynamics in the whole of creation.
We are the high risk investment, the pinnacle of whatever program DNA is running,
our numbers, and our resources footprint is an indication of how important we are. Nature, as a system, doesn't make mistakes with such a huge hand of cards. The program hasn't crashed yet, The kitty has not been lost. We are the winning hand, the Royal Flush.
The dichotomy is this. We are also the bluff hand, that is trying to make us fold. And the stakes have never been higher. There are no more bets, we can't raise the stakes now, the cards are about to be laid down. The hand is playing out. And I'm pretty sure we've won it.
We're just so used to the struggle, (naturally enough) we haven't realised we can stop fighting.
ITT we replaced original sin with THAT FUCKING APPLE!
Nothing else "original sin" was ever going to turn out to be was there?
There only ever is really one of "THOSE FUCKING APPLES" (And it was that one I alluded to in my post).
The real give away is the presence of a crazy or naked chick on these occasions.. . . "Hi, Adam, Listen Darling, I've been talking to this Snake I met, and, . . . . . . .!"
Who else was that ever going to be?
Quote from: BadBeast on June 09, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
Nothing else "original sin" was ever going to turn out to be was there?
There only ever is really one of "THOSE FUCKING APPLES" (And it was that one I alluded to in my post).
The real give away is the presence of a crazy or naked chick on these occasions.. . . "Hi, Adam, Listen Darling, I've been talking to this Snake I met, and, . . . . . . .!"
Who else was that ever going to be?
Biggest flaw in the bible, original sin theory.
God - Be fruitful, go forth and multiply.
God - You did WHAT??? WHORE!!!!
God - GTFO!
You're a better man than me if you can pinpoint the biggest flaw in a book with damn near 1100 pages of very little but :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 11, 2010, 04:48:55 PM
You're a better man than me if you can pinpoint the biggest flaw in a book with damn near 1100 pages of very little but :lulz:
Well, it is right there in the big inning and the premise destroys any credibility as far as the rest of the fairy tale is concerned.
Quote from: Hawk on June 11, 2010, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on June 09, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
Nothing else "original sin" was ever going to turn out to be was there?
There only ever is really one of "THOSE FUCKING APPLES" (And it was that one I alluded to in my post).
The real give away is the presence of a crazy or naked chick on these occasions.. . . "Hi, Adam, Listen Darling, I've been talking to this Snake I met, and, . . . . . . .!"
Who else was that ever going to be?
Biggest flaw in the bible, original sin theory.
Isn't the conventional interpratation that Knowledge of sin was the real issue?
God - Be fruitful, go forth and multiply.
God - You did WHAT??? WHORE!!!!
God - GTFO!
EDIT: Apparently i forgot to add content.
Itsn't the conventional interpretation that KNOWLEDGE was really the original sin?
Quote from: Nigel on June 09, 2010, 03:43:00 PM
Quote from: dimo on June 08, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
We may not be drastically different, but we ARE different. At the very least, we're AWARE of the inherent flaws of being human, where most others are not. Premise un-flawed.
Nope. Lots of non-discordians are also aware of the inherent flaws in being human. Still flawed. One of those flaws is elitism, and pretending that discordianism makes us a uniquely enlightened bunch is that. There are a lot more enlightened non-discordians than there are discordians.
Does that mean I'm not a precious snowflake that's better than everyone else? :(
:cramstipated:
No! you're a fucking sunbeam like everyone else! Now get shining, or you'll get put where the sun don't shine!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
Well, that's a really fine line with bad results on both sides:
On the one side of the line, the Principia does say Discordians are different from other humans, because the other humans are deemed "Cabbages". In other discordian literature they are called Robots or Zombies. This kind of reasoning quickly leads to the idea that Discordians are "better" than other humans, which quickly leads to a kind of arrogant elitist attitude, which quickly leads to Bad Things and Teh Stupid, things which were supposed to have been qualities of cabbagehood in the first place.
We've all seen it happen, and I think we are all vulnerable to its lurings. At least, I know I am susceptible if I don't take care. If there are Discordians out there that honestly are not, I will not hesitate to admit they are in fact better monkeys than I am.
But on the other side of the line, there's that idea that we're all vulnerable to the same errors and mistakes as all other humans. Indeed this is sort of reminiscent of the idea of "sin" in Christianity. This line of reasoning can lead to a sense of fatalistic apathy, to not even attempt to be better than this, because we're all irrational monkeys anyway and can never be more than that. Continuing that line of reasoning it can even lead to an acceptance of these errors or sins, since "fuck it we can't help acting like this anyway", or as it usually sounds like, "ook ook".
It's a thin line, and a tricky one to navigate. What you say indicates that our group is currently venturing a bit too far out on the latter mentioned side of the line. We sure as hell aren't on the former mentioned side, that is more the territory of that butthurt smelly old fart from the Maybe Logic Academy (I forgot his name).
So yeah, it's a good reason to realign the course and again try to be
better monkeys. No fuck that, no sense in half-assing these things, we shouldn't settle for anything less than being the
best monkeys.
Let me finish with a quote I got from somewhere years ago, completely forgot where, but it's in my old "good quotes" file and it's relevant:
Someone, after listening for some time, accused Gautama Buddha contradicting himself. He explained that some stray from the path to the right, so he tells them, "Go left, go left!" Others stray from the path to the left, so he tells them "Go right, go right!"
000, it sounds similar to Wilson's 'Cosmic Schmuck'.
Also, I added content to my failure of a previous post.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on June 14, 2010, 04:41:55 AM
Quote from: Hawk on June 11, 2010, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on June 09, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
Nothing else "original sin" was ever going to turn out to be was there?
There only ever is really one of "THOSE FUCKING APPLES" (And it was that one I alluded to in my post).
The real give away is the presence of a crazy or naked chick on these occasions.. . . "Hi, Adam, Listen Darling, I've been talking to this Snake I met, and, . . . . . . .!"
Who else was that ever going to be?
Biggest flaw in the bible, original sin theory.
Isn't the conventional interpratation that Knowledge of sin was the real issue?
God - Be fruitful, go forth and multiply.
God - You did WHAT??? WHORE!!!!
God - GTFO!
EDIT: Apparently i forgot to add content.
Itsn't the conventional interpretation that KNOWLEDGE was really the original sin?
In the revisionist version after the flaw was acknowledged. For decades it was taught that Eve, the christian mother of all mankind ( except for wherever Cain found his wife) was a whore.
The real story is that it was Eris, not Eve, and JHVHGod was really butthurt about it, but he couldn't acknowledge that a Chick Goddess had pranked his whole creation into one big wanky slop pot, so he had to patsy the Serpent into taking the rap. That's why he was made to crawl on his belly as a "punishment". (Not much of one, really, seeing as he crawled on his fuckin' belly anyway!)
I mean, imagine, Eris tricking Jehovah into letting her be the Mother of his new monkeys! No wonder a third of his Seraphim went rebel on his arse, and tried to bitchslap him out of Heaven!
Quote from: Charley Brown on June 15, 2010, 09:47:56 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on June 14, 2010, 04:41:55 AM
Quote from: Hawk on June 11, 2010, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on June 09, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
Nothing else "original sin" was ever going to turn out to be was there?
There only ever is really one of "THOSE FUCKING APPLES" (And it was that one I alluded to in my post).
The real give away is the presence of a crazy or naked chick on these occasions.. . . "Hi, Adam, Listen Darling, I've been talking to this Snake I met, and, . . . . . . .!"
Who else was that ever going to be?
Biggest flaw in the bible, original sin theory.
Isn't the conventional interpratation that Knowledge of sin was the real issue?
God - Be fruitful, go forth and multiply.
God - You did WHAT??? WHORE!!!!
God - GTFO!
EDIT: Apparently i forgot to add content.
Itsn't the conventional interpretation that KNOWLEDGE was really the original sin?
In the revisionist version after the flaw was acknowledged. For decades it was taught that Eve, the christian mother of all mankind ( except for wherever Cain found his wife) was a whore.
Where can I find details on this? I feel a troll coming on.
The details, this has been hanging above the beds of many a sleepless fruitless scholarly dude for many millennia to come. And go. It's easily the paris hilton of damnable myths, or the fruit of the loom we shall say.
1. Fluff
2. Fluffy
3. Shaggy, like carpet
3. you know that feeling when you run your hands up and down something that's just really really fluffy, and you're like, fuck, that is really, really, really fluffy. we've all been there.
4. Flufflucent
5. High Tea
I'm glad to see this OP. This sort of noise was noticeably absent on my last pilgrimage.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 08, 2010, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 04, 2010, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 07:32:15 PM
What a waste of fucking time this was.
I don't think so. There towards the end it got off track but there is a hell of a lot of meat in there.
It's all based on a flawed premise, though.
And any flawed premise extended to its logical conclusion is by definition useless.
What's the flawed premise?
That Discordians are different from other humans.
The concepts of The Five Pillars appear to me to be equally applicable to a community of bog standard humans as to one of fully posable bipeds.
Where I see "gaps" (if I may call them that in this construction) is in the certain amount of give and take between members of a community who are not particularly friendly to each other.
We have the bite of the Pillar of Discord, but I think all of us who have been here a while know that sometimes it's best not to say anything. Not as a matter of posting etiquette but as a matter of communal well being.
The Pillar of Fluff is certainly one that encourages some give and take, but it doesn't address antipathy or hostility among given individuals.
The Pillar of Rants seems not to address this issue at all, but on reflection seems to deal with it better than any other. It tells you to take your Face
TM off, and let your war face all hang out everywhere, but to suck it up if no one cares. And it can be applied both to the ranter and the dissenter(s).
The Fourth Pillar (communal projects) appears to take the inverse approach to the previous one: Instead of The One approaching the many with a thematic idea, you have The Many approaching the one with myriad ideas. It kinda works, but not as well as Pillar Three because it addresses itself to a broader concept of what we all should look to as a group rather than individually.
Finally, the Fifth Pillar follows in the same mode as the second.
Basically, what I am concluding here is that the reason why this doesn't
appear to work as it should is not because we aren't different enough from Bog Standard Humans, but because we at PD appear to have lost the Art of The Rant and The Art of The Brag and how to respond to them. It's not about content or lack of it, it's not about friendship or lack of it, it's not about any of these things.
(I stress here that I do fully endorse the full model of the Five Pillars)
It's about how we carry ourselves and how we scream about it.