on the way to work, yeah. You know the ones. They have cinema boards with movable letters, arranged to try and needle you with cute little platitudes as you drive by. Today's precious gem was "What gives you significance?"
I know what they meant by it. They meant that, without their god, my existence is warrantless and ignoble.
But aside from that guilt ridden subtext, it's a cool question, isn't it? What gives you significance?
I have my answers. They fluctuate. Sigmatic is my chosen pseudonym here because of several connotations, ranging from fictional characters to latin root words. My identity as part of, and separate from, my direct control is of great significance to myself and possibly very significant to the world at large. My life is significant, furthermore, because I find that (epistemologically speaking) the ideas and experiences life offers are of such magnificence and complexity and wonder that their sum could hardly be trivial in any sense.
So I have to ask. What gives you significance?
Will get back to this thread later (among others) with an answer. :D
Who says I need significance in my life?
It's an assumption, deal with it.
My kids. My work in the PTA. My family and the relationships I have there.
That's about it.
I'm not entirely convinced that I have significance or need it. I feel that I simply am, and that this is reason enough to do, to act, and to experience. In previous bouts of existential crises I've found myself wasting time and energy determining why I do things and what everything is for. Then I noticed in others that they do the same with everything and the question becomes what the point of it all is. Maybe there's a point, maybe there isn't, but why certain things happen doesn't change that certain things happen. It is better to act on them than quest for their meaning.
Maybe it's all pointless. I don't think this is a bad thing. Anyway, I'm not a philosopher and I've never claimed to be so I'm sorry if this estimation seems undeveloped or simplistic. It works very well for me, and I don't know that much more can be hoped for.
Also, a Methodist church has one of those signs that they always put really fucked up phrases into. My favorite was "Give Jesus a chance. If it doesn't work, the Devil will always take you back."
Quote from: EoC on May 14, 2010, 10:05:49 PM
I'm not entirely convinced that I have significance or need it. I feel that I simply am, and that this is reason enough to do, to act, and to experience. In previous bouts of existential crises I've found myself wasting time and energy determining why I do things and what everything is for. Then I noticed in others that they do the same with everything and the question becomes what the point of it all is. Maybe there's a point, maybe there isn't, but why certain things happen doesn't change that certain things happen. It is better to act on them than quest for their meaning.
Maybe it's all pointless. I don't think this is a bad thing. Anyway, I'm not a philosopher and I've never claimed to be so I'm sorry if this estimation seems undeveloped or simplistic. It works very well for me, and I don't know that much more can be hoped for.
Also, a Methodist church has one of those signs that they always put really fucked up phrases into. My favorite was "Give Jesus a chance. If it doesn't work, the Devil will always take you back."
:mittens:
But note that I wasn't talking specifically about metaphysical or "higher" significance. Life doesn't have to be appraised in terms of transcendence, something you seem to understand without really getting my drift. Life has multifarious significances, some of them are more mundane things, like experiences.
But I would contend that everyone's life has significance of some sort. If it's something you do, or an impact you have on the people in your life, or the vast amount of stock options you control, or an idea that you'd die for, or whatever- your life 'signifies' that thing.
Maybe things don't make us significant. Maybe we make things significant.
On one hand:
Perhaps that metaphysical significance is best viewed as Purpose, which is something I could and actively strive to do without. I'll leave that to those assholes who can't but soak up every word Rick Warren spewes from his smug mouth.
As to the OP:
Stupidly or not, my words give me significance. The way my words, and some actions when I'm lucky, affect those around me are vital. The way I can make someone smile or laugh or free them from needless concern or impress upon them concern they ought to have, if I were (and occasionally am) unable to have this affect on people I would feel my self-worth slip away. Words that affect the minds of others.
And, too, hearing words worthy of doing to same to me.
That doesn't seem too stupid to me. Words are basically reference points that, together, signify (it's the secret word! aaaa!!) ideas. Words are a form of significance.
I see. Maybe my response was framed by the idea of it being a question on behalf of a God pushing organization.
Or perhaps I'm conflating significance with value? If someone led a largely solitary lifestyle, were unhappy more often than not, and spent their free time drinking heavily. The boozing would hold significance for them. I can dig that, Sig.
One theme I've returned to in the last several years is that I hope to never exhaust my sense of wonder. When the simplest choice, like an online moniker, can come to mean something, there is no shortage of important experiences. Am I more on the mark now?
Yeah. Yeah.
I started this topic because on the way back from work, while driving, I started trying to notice everything and see the connotations of everything as I drove. It took a lot of energy and focus, but it was really mindblowing how much information we ignore.
My favorite church sign ever said "WE PROBABLY ARE NOT AS JUDGMENTAL AS YOU MIGHT THINK!"
My second favorite one:
(http://sinmonkey.com/files/Poultry.jpg)
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 14, 2010, 10:55:48 PM
My favorite church sign ever said "WE PROBABLY ARE NOT AS JUDGMENTAL AS YOU MIGHT THINK!"
My second favorite one:
(http://sinmonkey.com/files/Poultry.jpg)
My favorite was " The most powerful position is on your knees. "
Quote from: Hawk on May 14, 2010, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 14, 2010, 10:55:48 PM
My favorite church sign ever said "WE PROBABLY ARE NOT AS JUDGMENTAL AS YOU MIGHT THINK!"
My second favorite one:
(http://sinmonkey.com/files/Poultry.jpg)
My favorite was " The most powerful position is on your knees. "
Hel-LO! :lulz:
What gives my life significance?
Beauty. Truth.
And extended oral pleasure.
Well, it's here. I'm in it. What else am I going to do? Where else am I going to go? I was dropped into the cockpit of life and I might as well see where I can take this puppy.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on May 17, 2010, 04:12:08 PM
Well, it's here. I'm in it. What else am I going to do? Where else am I going to go? I was dropped into the cockpit of life and I might as well see where I can take this puppy.
RWHN stars in "Destination: Tot Lot". Coming this summer!
What I'm getting is that lots of like-minded people here at some point looked at life, it's boundless mystery et cetera et cetera, and thought "Huh. That's something." And decided to live.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on May 17, 2010, 04:12:08 PM
Well, it's here. I'm in it. What else am I going to do? Where else am I going to go? I was dropped into the cockpit of life and I might as well see where I can take this puppy.
For some people, it's Top Gun. For others, it's Tokyo Drift.
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 17, 2010, 04:21:57 PM
For others, it's Tokyo Drift.
(http://www.gifanatics.com/files/l_01047521db4229eeff37911c3ce47eb9.gif)
Some days it feels like Stealth Bomber: The Early Years.
I am a beautiful butterfly...just like everyone else.
No really though, it's something I just don't need to think about. I think spending so long wanting to die has changed my views on what life should be. I'm happy just to be happy, and to be able to do whatever I want, and to be able to have simple human interaction. I can't even think of any long-term goals. So my significance probably isn't very large to the world in general, but it's important to me.
Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on May 18, 2010, 02:37:19 AM
I am a beautiful butterfly...just like everyone else.
No really though, it's something I just don't need to think about. I think spending so long wanting to die has changed my views on what life should be. I'm happy just to be happy, and to be able to do whatever I want, and to be able to have simple human interaction. I can't even think of any long-term goals. So my significance probably isn't very large to the world in general, but it's important to me.
Beautifully put!
I also have the luxury of a job that involves minimal bullshit for livable money, and no real responsibility besides taking care of my cats. I generally feel very serene. 8)
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 14, 2010, 07:51:09 PM
on the way to work, yeah. You know the ones. They have cinema boards with movable letters, arranged to try and needle you with cute little platitudes as you drive by. Today's precious gem was "What gives you significance?"
I know what they meant by it. They meant that, without their god, my existence is warrantless and ignoble.
But aside from that guilt ridden subtext, it's a cool question, isn't it? What gives you significance?
I have my answers. They fluctuate. Sigmatic is my chosen pseudonym here because of several connotations, ranging from fictional characters to latin root words. My identity as part of, and separate from, my direct control is of great significance to myself and possibly very significant to the world at large. My life is significant, furthermore, because I find that (epistemologically speaking) the ideas and experiences life offers are of such magnificence and complexity and wonder that their sum could hardly be trivial in any sense.
So I have to ask. What gives you significance?
The desire to be a professional and recognized
bum musician.
Seriously that's what I feel the essence of my being is. Making sounds.
[edit: LMNO has a point. Oral pleasure is pretty awesome too]
Significance
to whom?Quote from: Omar KhayyamWhen You and I behind the Veil are past,
Oh, but the long, long while the World shall last,
Which of our Coming and Departure heeds
As the Sea's self should heed a pebble-cast.
QuoteWe are no other than a moving row
Of Magic Shadow-shapes that come and go
Round with the Sun-illumined Lantern held
In Midnight by the Master of the Show;
But helpless Pieces of the Game He plays
Upon this Chequer-board of Nights and Days;
Hither and thither moves, and checks, and slays,
And one by one back in the Closet lays.
significance shmignificance.
In A Beginner's Guide to Immortality, Cliff Pickover presents the new york times best seller list from 50 years ago. And today, you wouldn't recognize a single title on the list. His point is that most of us will leave no mark on history. Your legacy will be carried for a few generations at most, and then your entire existence will simply fade into the mists of time.
If this thought disturbs you, you're holding on.
J. Krishnamurti went to great lengths to impress this on his listeners.
And it's worth considering:
In the grand scheme of things our lives are awfully petty. Our heartaches and tragedies, our triumphs and accomplishments, our ego, our pride; these things mean little to those not actively involved in, or otherwise compelled to give a damn about, our lives.
And that's only while we're given ANY prolonged attention that we've collectively deemed inherently due to the living. Once we're dead...even our remembrances fade. After enough centuries have passed even our headstones, IF we have any, will be worn down, eventually they'll just be gone to dust. I chuckle every time I see an "In Loving Memory" decal on the back of a car window; mostly they fade well before the memory should be able to.
All this leads directly to a whole load of existential crisis and musings.
However, while I will be totally forgotten about in perhaps 100 years, and most definitely after 1000 years, that doesn't mean I will neglect the things that give ME significance RIGHT NOW. In fact, those things seem to be even more important because they're the things I can add to this world while being able to witness the effect.
I said that my words give me significance, and I suggested that may be a stupid thing to count on. That's because words wear so very thin, are easily forgotten, and even more easily ignored.
Do they fill me with purpose? Some end goal that I have dutifully contributed to? No. That's pathetic and laughable. Again, Rick Warren. He capitalizes on that significantly, fueling people's thirst for purpose, for a sense that their actions have inherent meaning.
I don't need that. I do need my words, and the people they affect. And I don't have any good reason for why that's so. And I'm just fine with that.
I still don't buy it though.
What if significance isn't a matter of metaphysical worth, or even historic or emotional value?
I think significance is in everyone's lives. If you've read the Dark Tower, I think of significance in this context as a lot like Ka: A nebulous concept encompassing one's present conditions, the meaning behind things in life, the people you're with, the direction events are proceeding in, and the perceived reasons for various occurrences.
Quote from: LMNO on May 17, 2010, 03:44:44 PM
What gives my life significance?
Beauty. Truth.
And extended oral pleasure.
I couldn't have said it any better myself (I know, I tried).
TITCM LMNO!
Quote from: Hawk on May 14, 2010, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 14, 2010, 10:55:48 PM
My favorite church sign ever said "WE PROBABLY ARE NOT AS JUDGMENTAL AS YOU MIGHT THINK!"
My second favorite one:
(http://sinmonkey.com/files/Poultry.jpg)
My favorite was " The most powerful position is on your knees. "
I like "We seek spiritual fruit, not religious nuts" Largely because my brother in law is a fairly spiritual, kinda flaming, gay man.
The attention of others justifies my existence.
EVERYONE LOOK AT ME
Quote from: Cramulus on May 19, 2010, 08:40:05 PM
Significance to whom?
Quote from: Omar KhayyamWhen You and I behind the Veil are past,
Oh, but the long, long while the World shall last,
Which of our Coming and Departure heeds
As the Sea's self should heed a pebble-cast.
QuoteWe are no other than a moving row
Of Magic Shadow-shapes that come and go
Round with the Sun-illumined Lantern held
In Midnight by the Master of the Show;
But helpless Pieces of the Game He plays
Upon this Chequer-board of Nights and Days;
Hither and thither moves, and checks, and slays,
And one by one back in the Closet lays.
significance shmignificance.
In A Beginner's Guide to Immortality, Cliff Pickover presents the new york times best seller list from 50 years ago. And today, you wouldn't recognize a single title on the list. His point is that most of us will leave no mark on history. Your legacy will be carried for a few generations at most, and then your entire existence will simply fade into the mists of time.
If this thought disturbs you, you're holding on.
Quote from: Alty on May 19, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
J. Krishnamurti went to great lengths to impress this on his listeners.
And it's worth considering:
In the grand scheme of things our lives are awfully petty. Our heartaches and tragedies, our triumphs and accomplishments, our ego, our pride; these things mean little to those not actively involved in, or otherwise compelled to give a damn about, our lives.
And that's only while we're given ANY prolonged attention that we've collectively deemed inherently due to the living. Once we're dead...even our remembrances fade. After enough centuries have passed even our headstones, IF we have any, will be worn down, eventually they'll just be gone to dust. I chuckle every time I see an "In Loving Memory" decal on the back of a car window; mostly they fade well before the memory should be able to.
All this leads directly to a whole load of existential crisis and musings.
However, while I will be totally forgotten about in perhaps 100 years, and most definitely after 1000 years, that doesn't mean I will neglect the things that give ME significance RIGHT NOW. In fact, those things seem to be even more important because they're the things I can add to this world while being able to witness the effect.
I said that my words give me significance, and I suggested that may be a stupid thing to count on. That's because words wear so very thin, are easily forgotten, and even more easily ignored.
Do they fill me with purpose? Some end goal that I have dutifully contributed to? No. That's pathetic and laughable. Again, Rick Warren. He capitalizes on that significantly, fueling people's thirst for purpose, for a sense that their actions have inherent meaning.
I don't need that. I do need my words, and the people they affect. And I don't have any good reason for why that's so. And I'm just fine with that.
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 19, 2010, 10:49:28 PM
I still don't buy it though.
What if significance isn't a matter of metaphysical worth, or even historic or emotional value?
I think significance is in everyone's lives. If you've read the Dark Tower, I think of significance in this context as a lot like Ka: A nebulous concept encompassing one's present conditions, the meaning behind things in life, the people you're with, the direction events are proceeding in, and the perceived reasons for various occurrences.
Great posts, the three of you. Gives me much to think about.
Also, I want to read Beginner's Guide to Immortality.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/whats_the_point_church_sign.jpg)
What gives me significance? Not really sure... The people I know seem to know something, but I'm not asking because that will sound like fishing for compliments and/or sympathy... I guess I get my significance from others, as unwelcome as that may be at times. There is significance in one's work, one's hobbies, a beautiful sunset or sunrise, a stormy day, a bird's song... There is so much that is of significance to me all around that I don't have a lot of time to ask what makes me significant...
I suppose it's one of those deep questions, but as seems the gist of much of what is in this thread (sorry to generalize, it's likely a product of my flawed perception), the significance is in dropping the question and getting on with the things that matter, rather than wasting time on finding a way to phrase an answer to a question with a mind-jarring number of possible answers. While it can be a fun thinking exercise, letting the search for the answer obscure your vision is going in the completely wrong direction.
When people bring up that tired old question about the meaning of life, I usually request that they stop asking that, because while they're paying attention to that, they're missing the answer right under their nose... This doesn't always go over well. I know there was a time when that was what I mostly thought about, and all it brought was misery. I won't pretend my life is all puppy dogs and rainbows now, but at least I am mostly present for the good bits before they're gone.
And what will you do once you have the answer simplified into a small phrase? What good will it do you? Will it bring you happiness? Do not mistake the finger pointing for the answer, it is the direction in which the finger points where one should conduct one's search.
Oh nice thread everyone!
The question is interesting because where I place my significance seems to be directly related to my attention and focus. What I really dug when I first started doing drugs was how the content and detail of my focus and attention shifted to things that might, while sober, seem less significant. HAVE you ever looked at the back of a $20 on weed?
So it seems to me my significance is wholly based on where I'm attached in both attraction as well as aversion, or, as Cram put it, where I'm still holding.
It's all just so fucking shiny and pretty and awful and SERIOUS ain't it? :lol:
I'm starting to see it more Cram's way. Significance need not be a lasting thing to be valid. My limbic system assigns significance to things.
Quote from: Sigmatic on December 27, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
I'm starting to see it more Cram's way. Significance need not be a lasting thing to be valid. My limbic system assigns significance to things.
Yeah, I think he stole the mind control lazors.
Quote from: Sigmatic on December 27, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
Significance need not be a lasting thing to be valid.
BAH!
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
So Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Albert Einstein?
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
So Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Albert Einstein?
Ted was only trying to have a good time.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 27, 2010, 09:28:31 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
So Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Albert Einstein?
Ted was only trying to have a good time.
:spittake:
Dammit.
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
So Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Albert Einstein?
No moreso that a neon Budweiser sign and a giant 30' Casino sign hold the same significance. Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Ted Bundy and Albert Einstein holds the same significance as Albert Einstein.
Ted Bundy isn't non-significant... just ask any of the families of his victims what was more significant in their lives... him or the theory that energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared.
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:22:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 27, 2010, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 27, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Your significance is the story that is tied to you. Every issue you have overcome, or failed to overcome is part of what you embody in your significance. We are all significant because we have all lived our life, we have met challenges and survived. We signify the survival of a species, the survival of ideas, some of us signify the passing of the torch to the next generation... some of us signify the society of today, with little or no "family" to speak of.
We are neon signs, blinking across a desolate void all of us signifying that somehow, a weird combination of chemicals and reactions survives and thrives in an inhospitable universe... that despite our best attempts to wipe ourselves out... Life continues on.
We may never have a sign that is huge and visible for miles, we may never have a sign that has our name as Stars in the Next Big Thing... but each of our little signs mark an amazing accomplishment, we may never have peace in the Middle East, or Universal Health Care, or Legal Pot, or Gay Marriage... but we have Life.
And that's a pretty significant thing.
*scratches head*
Personally I think the gift of life itself is meaningless. It is what you do with it that makes a mark.
We all do something with it, and our significance is tied to what we do. Significance isn't necessarily good or positive... Its kind of like the BiP, its not just made of the Good experiences, or the Bad experiences... not just the Positive influences or the Negative influences... but its all those taken together.
So Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Albert Einstein?
No moreso that a neon Budweiser sign and a giant 30' Casino sign hold the same significance. Ted Bundy holds the same significance as Ted Bundy and Albert Einstein holds the same significance as Albert Einstein.
Ted Bundy isn't non-significant... just ask any of the families of his victims what was more significant in their lives... him or the theory that energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared.
*backs away*
Rat, I know you don't care, but I just wanted to point out that you're shifting levels of subjectivity in mid-sentence. It coheres grammatically, but basically talks past itself and makes no real sense.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on December 28, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
Rat, I know you don't care, but I just wanted to point out that you're shifting levels of subjectivity in mid-sentence. It coheres grammatically, but basically talks past itself and makes no real sense.
Thanks, I couldn't make my brain work good enough to articulate that.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on December 28, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
Rat, I know you don't care, but I just wanted to point out that you're shifting levels of subjectivity in mid-sentence. It coheres grammatically, but basically talks past itself and makes no real sense.
I do care... but I'm not sure I understand the point you're making.
I'll try to rephrase:
Significance is a signifier... the meaning of a sign. The significance of an individual human (the meaning tied to that human) is, IMO, the life that they lead, the experiences they have, the choices they make.
Ted Bundy and Albert Einstein then are both humans and both have meaning tied to them (significance). Einstein's significance is not merely in his scientific work, but his whole life. Ted Bundy's significance is not only his acts of murder, but his whole life. Each of their lives holds significance.
Significance isn't equal among individuals, no moreso than a BiP is equal among individuals, nor is it specifically positive or negative.
Is that less unclear?
Yes, thanks.
Wait... Doesn't that merely redefine "significance" as "existence"?
QuoteThe existence of an individual human (the meaning tied to that human) is, IMO, the life that they lead, the experiences they have, the choices they make.
Ted Bundy and Albert Einstein then are both humans and both have meaning tied to them (existence). Einstein's existence is not merely in his scientific work, but his whole life. Ted Bundy's existence is not only his acts of murder, but his whole life. Each of their lives holds existence.
I am going to try to enter this conversation. My brain right now is struggling with abstract subjects, si if I say something stupid, point it out and I will try to correct it.
I am not a great man and I will not be remembered past the current family generation. Any significance attached to me will be found in the ones I leave behind who I have touched. The ripples of any influence that I have left on them will be displayed decades from now.
Essentially this means that my personal significance will never be known to me.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on December 28, 2010, 03:31:26 PM
Wait... Doesn't that merely redefine "significance" as "existence"?
How about "Our unique existence is what we as individuals signify"...
The question seems similar to "what is the meaning of life?" 'Meaning' indicates that there is some defined purpose... significance, on the other hand, doesn't necessarily require purpose. There may be no purpose to life, but in living we create significance through our existence.
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 28, 2010, 03:53:02 PM
I am going to try to enter this conversation. My brain right now is struggling with abstract subjects, si if I say something stupid, point it out and I will try to correct it.
I am not a great man and I will not be remembered past the current family generation. Any significance attached to me will be found in the ones I leave behind who I have touched. The ripples of any influence that I have left on them will be displayed decades from now.
Essentially this means that my personal significance will never be known to me.
Wow Charley, looks like your brain is doing better than struggling! ;-)
I think that's a very interesting point. I think we can understand some of our personal significance. You know what you signify to your wife currently, what you signify to your family, what you signify to the weirdos here on PD.com... but I agree with you that the full import, the entire significance of our lives aren't known until we're dead.
Hell, think about Lucy, she died thousands of years ago and her significance was maybe nothing more than a female that could pop out babies and pick yummy berries. Yet now, her significance to the study of evolution is likely far more than she could ever have comprehended.
This suddenly reminds me of Ecclesiastes 7:1 "A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth."
Solomon* held that the day of your death was better than the day of your birth, because when you are born, you hold no significance... you do not have a 'good name'. You may grow up to be an asshole, or you may die as a baby or young child. The day of your death, however, is the final tally. Your significance is now set... maybe not fully understood (Van Gogh), but the body of work is complete... the experience of existence is done.
Then again, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.
*lets just go with the mythology for now
Oh, I agree that to some extent we are aware of any influence or meaning in our life day to day. I am also sure Bach had no idea as to the longevity of his influence.
It isn't our place to know what our significance will be. Can you even begin to imagine how that would affect our every day decisions?
It seems that if we are quick to laugh, quick to love, slow to anger, quick to forgive and have a passion about something that we can share then we are successful. It's the example our lives set and not the words we say that will determine our final result.
I like it that way.
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 28, 2010, 04:32:08 PM
Oh, I agree that to some extent we are aware of any influence or meaning in our life day to day. I am also sure Bach had no idea as to the longevity of his influence.
It isn't our place to know what our significance will be. Can you even begin to imagine how that would affect our every day decisions?
It seems that if we are quick to laugh, quick to love, slow to anger, quick to forgive and have a passion about something that we can share then we are successful. It's the example our lives set and not the words we say that will determine our final result.
I like it that way.
:)
That's a very interesting observation, Charley. I like it.
Quote from: Ratatosk on December 28, 2010, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on December 28, 2010, 04:32:08 PM
Oh, I agree that to some extent we are aware of any influence or meaning in our life day to day. I am also sure Bach had no idea as to the longevity of his influence.
It isn't our place to know what our significance will be. Can you even begin to imagine how that would affect our every day decisions?
It seems that if we are quick to laugh, quick to love, slow to anger, quick to forgive and have a passion about something that we can share then we are successful. It's the example our lives set and not the words we say that will determine our final result.
I like it that way.
:)
That's a very interesting observation, Charley. I like it.
:oops: Thanks.
QuoteWhat gives my life significance?
Beauty. Truth.
And extended oral pleasure.
I really like that.
I'm that kind of kid full of fear who easily falls into metaphysical arguments and shit, but...
Beauty, good stories, sex, love, and wonder. Not necessarily in this order.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 27, 2010, 07:37:22 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on December 27, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
Significance need not be a lasting thing to be valid.
BAH!
Bah to YOU, sir!
I mean, even if I were to do things so incredible that every history book from then on would be filthy with the minutiae of my daily life, it would just be a different kind of impermanent significance. Nothing lasts very long in this universe, and things only seem long to us because we die so goddamn fast.
Quote from: Sigmatic on December 29, 2010, 03:23:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 27, 2010, 07:37:22 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on December 27, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
Significance need not be a lasting thing to be valid.
BAH!
Bah to YOU, sir!
I mean, even if I were to do things so incredible that every history book from then on would be filthy with the minutiae of my daily life, it would just be a different kind of impermanent significance. Nothing lasts very long in this universe, and things only seem long to us because we die so goddamn fast.
Tell it to Cicero. Or Gilgamesh, who has been significant for so long that nobody's sure he really existed.
Quote from: Cramulus on May 19, 2010, 08:40:05 PM
In A Beginner's Guide to Immortality, Cliff Pickover presents the new york times best seller list from 50 years ago. And today, you wouldn't recognize a single title on the list. His point is that most of us will leave no mark on history. Your legacy will be carried for a few generations at most, and then your entire existence will simply fade into the mists of time.
If this thought disturbs you, you're holding on.
Holding on?
What do you mean by that? Holding on to something you shouldn't hold on to, or something that you should try to never lose?
BTW my feelings would lean more towards the latter, like Roger.
I took it to mean clinging, desire, grasping or attachment. As the Buddhists call trishna.