http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm
QuotePolice Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, "Don't Taze my granny!" an El Reno police officer told another cop to "Taser her!" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman "took a more aggressive posture in her bed," according to the complaint.
Lonnie Tinsley claims that he called 911 after he went to check on his grandmother, whom he found in her bed, "connected to a portable oxygen concentrator with a long hose." She is "in marginal health, [and] takes several prescribed medications daily," and "was unable to tell him exactly when she had taken her meds," so, Tinsley says, he called 911 "to ask for an emergency medical technician to come to her apartment to evaluate her."
In response, "as many as ten El Reno police" officers "pushed their way through the door," according to the complaint.
The grandma, Lona Varner, "told them to get out of her apartment."
The remarkable complaint continues: "Instead, the apparent leader of the police [defendant Thomas Duran] instructed another policeman to 'Taser her!' He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.
"Lonnie Tinsley told them, 'Don't taze my Granny!' to which they responded that they would Taser him; instead, they pulled him out of her apartment, took him down to the floor, handcuffed him and placed him in the back of a police car.
"The police then proceeded to approach Ms. Varner in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she began to suffer oxygen deprivation.
"The police then fired a Taser at her and only one wire struck her, in the left arm; the police then fired a second Taser, striking her to the right and left of the midline of her upper chest and applied high voltage, causing burns to her chest, extreme pain and to pass out.
"The police then grabbed Ms. Varner by her forearms and jerked hands together, causing her soft flesh to tear and bleed on her bed; they then handcuffed her.
"The police freed Lonnie Tinsley from his incarceration in the back of the police car and permitted him to accompany the ambulance with his grandmother."
Tinsley says the cops capped it all off by having his grandmother "placed in the psychiatric ward at the direction of the El Reno police; she was held there for six days and released."
This country has become a self parody. :lulz:
Not only do cops love tazing people
they also show the video footage at parties
no doubt this one was very popular
Just another wacky American Moment!
"I tasered a bed-bound granny in El Reno, just to watch her grandson cry"
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 08:14:06 PM
"I tasered a bed-bound granny in El Reno, just to watch her grandson cry"
And all I got was this lousy t-shirt!
"Shock to the heart, for pills she hadn't ate.
Gran gave Parkinsons a bad name."
Quote from: Richter on June 28, 2010, 08:16:21 PM
"Shock to the heart, for pills she hadn't ate.
Gran gave Parkinsons a bad name."
:spittake:
Moar info +comments
http://newsok.com/article/3471297#disqus_thread
http://www.newsok.com/article/3471619?searched=Lonnie%20Tinsley&custom_click=search
I am still entirely disgusted with this incident.
It is of the most high and holy horrormirth that the police were called
to prevent her from committing suicide.
She did make one big mistake though, which is (allegedly) threatening the cops' lives. If there's anything I've learned from having my best buddy become a cop, it's that the cops are
salivating for the moment you give them the excuse to use maximum force. It don't matter if you're 8, 18, or 80, blind, crippled, or crazy. You don't even have to be breathing!
QuoteDuran reported Varner had looked him in the eyes after he arrived at the apartment and said to him, "If you try and get the knife I will stab you and kill you. I killed four Japs in World War II and I would not bat an eye killing you."
Duran also reported, Varner talked of killing police again after being taken to Parkview Hospital in El Reno. "Varner told me she was going to kill every officer that was in her apartment when she got out. Varner told me she was going to snap my neck like a twig just like she did during World War II."
Varner's attorney, Dell, said both Varner and the grandson said she told police to leave her apartment but they deny she threatened to kill officers. They also denied that she talked in the apartment of killing Japanese.
The grandson "said she didn't say anything like that at all at the apartment," the attorney said.
The grandson recalled she did say things at the hospital about having killed Japanese but "there was never any threats to the cops," the attorney said.
The horrormirth is strong in this line:
QuoteAsked if the Taser hurt, she said, "Well, that's for me to know and you to find out."
also,
QuoteEl Reno police last faced controversy over using a Taser in November 2008 when an uncooperative driver was shocked after a crash. The police chief said later officers had no way of knowing the driver was in diabetic shock. A video of the 2008 incident was widely circulated on the Internet.
and that, friends and neighbors, is what's so great about the internet
Quote from: Cramulus on June 28, 2010, 09:06:48 PM
I am still entirely disgusted with this incident.
So am I. But what can you do? The American public has been demanding this shit since 1980. Shit, since the end of WWII.
Now they have it.
I find it interesting how the source in the OP leaves out things like how she had a knife and threatened to kill the cops.
Quote"If you come any closer, you're getting the knife."
"If you try and get the knife I will stab you and kill you. I killed four Japs in World War II, and I would not bat an eye killing you."
http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-grandmother-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471619?custom_click=pod_headline_crime (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-grandmother-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471619?custom_click=pod_headline_crime)
I just wonder what the cops were supposed to do, whether it's misplaced ideology or not, they had a responsibility to prevent her from committing suicide. She was also armed with a weapon and threatening them. So, they needed to remove the weapon from her. Should they have tried to wrestle it away from her, beat her to submission with billy clubs, sprayed her down with pepper spray, shot her? I'm open to suggestions, but in the context of their duties, I'm not sure what else they could have reasonably done. To some extent, this sounds like an attempted suicide by cop.
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.
Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press. They're too honourable.
What a load of crap. 10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?
I love this country.
:horrormirth:
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.
Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press. They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.
And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.
Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.
Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press. They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.
And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.
Well, sure. I know nothing of this subject matter, after all, and those old ladies are like fucking ninjas.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 12:11:01 AM
Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.
Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press. They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.
And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.
Well, sure. I know nothing of this subject matter, after all, and those old ladies are like fucking ninjas.
Not what I said, but you can tell yourself that.
(For the record, I received some training with knife fighting from a former US Army instructor, one of the things I learned is that when a knife is involved, there will always be blood spilled. I try not to underestimate weapons.)
So, the lady actually wanted to die?
Maybe she was trying to provoke a "suicide by cop".
Someone should have told her that now cops have "nonlethal" weapons.
Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
(For the record, I received some training with knife fighting from a former US Army instructor,
Oh, my. Well, that certainly blows my experience out of the water.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap. 10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?
They said, "'She took a more aggressive posture in her bed."
:lulz:
:argh!: :argh!: :argh!: :crankey: :crankey: :crankey:
Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.
Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press. They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.
And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.
80 year olds also have poor reflexes, sight and grip. One cop could easily distract her while the other controls the weapon hand, applying enough force to cause her to drop it or, if she was unexpectedly strong, break the wrist. Especially when she's in bed.
I mean, lets think about this. In bed, you cant put weight behind a weapon, and your attack vectors are highly limited. At the worst, she could likely inflict flesh wounds via slashing attacks and while that would spread a lot of blood around the place, it is hardly fatal.
And this is assuming she had a knife. I remember only too well how the cops over here lied repeatedly when they capped a Brazilian guy on the subway because he might've been a terrorist. They lied about the clothes he was wearing and his actions immediately before his death, spinning it to look like he acted suspiciously enough to allow a copper to empty a clip into his head. Cops lie, and cover up, and distort, and one of the main reasons for doing such things is negative media attention due to acting like a thug.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap. 10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?
They did handle it. They tazed her. :|
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 01:23:19 AM80 year olds also have poor reflexes, sight and grip. One cop could easily distract her while the other controls the weapon hand, applying enough force to cause her to drop it or, if she was unexpectedly strong, break the wrist. Especially when she's in bed.
I mean, lets think about this. In bed, you cant put weight behind a weapon, and your attack vectors are highly limited. At the worst, she could likely inflict flesh wounds via slashing attacks and while that would spread a lot of blood around the place, it is hardly fatal.
This is at least what I'm looking for, an actual method to disarm her. Although I admit I'm not sure if flesh wounds are an acceptable risk and I don't have much sympathy if somebody gets hurt after threatening another person. I'm also not sure if the effects of the taser are worse than a broken wrist.
QuoteAnd this is assuming she had a knife. I remember only too well how the cops over here lied repeatedly when they capped a Brazilian guy on the subway because he might've been a terrorist. They lied about the clothes he was wearing and his actions immediately before his death, spinning it to look like he acted suspiciously enough to allow a copper to empty a clip into his head. Cops lie, and cover up, and distort, and one of the main reasons for doing such things is negative media attention due to acting like a thug.
Lying is a very real possibility, I can't discount it happening. I'm going to have to reserve judgment on that front for now.
Hah hah. Haaaaaah hah ha hah.
oh my goodness!
How did she survive?
How come police were dispatched instead of medical? Unless 991 is police only?
911 relays to a dispatch center, and they will use their judgement to send someone out there. Or something.
Isn't Alty a dispatcher?
Vene, sorry, but I call bullshit. She's on oxygen. She's obviously mentally and physically ill. Speaking as a granddaughter to a recently-deceased mentally and physically ill 82 year old, I have to say that any cop who'd TASE that lady rather than "take her down" another way is a fucking pussy.
Yeah, I said it.
And if that shit happened in front of me or mine, MY blood'd be spilled and probably someone else's (like one of the jackoffs in the blue suits threatening a sick old woman), and I'd be in jail for it. That shit should not fly. EVER.
I don't care if she had a fucking granade.
But Vene got knife fighting training from a guy who used to be an army instructor.
Which is way more experience than I've ever had.
hnark!
Quote from: Jenne on June 29, 2010, 02:05:52 AM
Vene, sorry, but I call bullshit. She's on oxygen. She's obviously mentally and physically ill. Speaking as a granddaughter to a recently-deceased mentally and physically ill 82 year old, I have to say that any cop who'd TASE that lady rather than "take her down" another way is a fucking pussy.
Yeah, I said it.
And if that shit happened in front of me or mine, MY blood'd be spilled and probably someone else's (like one of the jackoffs in the blue suits threatening a sick old woman), and I'd be in jail for it. That shit should not fly. EVER.
I don't care if she had a fucking granade.
Exactly, even trying to defend this action is stupidity multiplied expotentialy. FFS, what happened to common fucking sense?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 02:13:29 AM
But Vene got knife fighting training from a guy who used to be an army instructor.
Which is way more experience than I've ever had.
hnark!
Vene needs to get his head out of his ass and realize that unless a person is in good physical condition and has had extensive training they are more likely to cut themselves than anyone else.
Our tax dollars at work. The brave boys in blue protecting us from the ever encroaching threat of the elderly criminal. Wheelchair bandits, thugs armed with walkers, crazed fanatics flinging hard candy...if the cops weren't hear to taze the shit out of them, I don't know what we'd do.
All hopped up on oxygen and God knows what else.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 29, 2010, 04:08:28 AM
Our tax dollars at work. The brave boys in blue protecting us from the ever encroaching threat of the elderly criminal. Wheelchair bandits, thugs armed with walkers, crazed fanatics flinging hard candy...if the cops weren't hear to taze the shit out of them, I don't know what we'd do.
Har. We have an old man out here robbing banks. Called the "geezer bandit."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/30/geezer-bandit-robs-vista-bank/
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Geezer-Bandit-Strikes-Again-Hooked-Up-to-Oxygen/BtvkEUfO70GzLv5uPdo6GQ.cspx (this one has picture)
THIS shit's for real...but still. Not many of his age bracket "going fer the gold" in quite that manner...
Quote from: Jenne on June 29, 2010, 04:27:10 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 29, 2010, 04:08:28 AM
Our tax dollars at work. The brave boys in blue protecting us from the ever encroaching threat of the elderly criminal. Wheelchair bandits, thugs armed with walkers, crazed fanatics flinging hard candy...if the cops weren't hear to taze the shit out of them, I don't know what we'd do.
Har. We have an old man out here robbing banks. Called the "geezer bandit."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/30/geezer-bandit-robs-vista-bank/
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Geezer-Bandit-Strikes-Again-Hooked-Up-to-Oxygen/BtvkEUfO70GzLv5uPdo6GQ.cspx (this one has picture)
THIS shit's for real...but still. Not many of his age bracket "going fer the gold" in quite that manner...
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on June 29, 2010, 01:09:23 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap. 10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?
They said, "'She took a more aggressive posture in her bed."
:lulz:
Yes, and you could say the sparks certainly flied.
:lmnuendo:
Quote from: Nast on June 29, 2010, 04:59:20 AM
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on June 29, 2010, 01:09:23 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap. 10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?
They said, "'She took a more aggressive posture in her bed."
:lulz:
Yes, and you could say the sparks certainly flied.
:lmnuendo:
:x
Now look at what you made me do. (NSFW) (http://tinyurl.com/y44dpww)
(http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/08/Vomit.gif)
More folds than a sharpei.
:vom:
Hey, at least sharpei are cute.
Quote from: Cramulus on June 29, 2010, 05:47:45 AM
(http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/08/Vomit.gif)
I believe this is the only proper response
The only way this could have gotten worse:
Cop accidentally cracks open oxygen tank,
oxygen fills the room,
taser-spark ignites the granny.
Maybe she had suspiciously large teeth, it could have been the Big Bad Wolf?
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 29, 2010, 10:16:56 AM
Maybe she had suspiciously large teeth, it could have been the Big Bad Wolf?
Heh, imagine that you are one of the cops and this turns out to be actually happening.
What kind of story would you tell the press?
"... AND THAT'S WHEN I TOOK OUT MY MACHETE AND VALIANTLY CUT OPEN THE MONSTER IN A SPLATTERING OF BLOOD AND GORE, AS I RESCUED THE OLD LADY FROM ITS BELLY, BEHOLD!!"
".. um sir, that's a spleen."
Quote from: Cramulus on June 28, 2010, 09:06:48 PM
If there's anything I've learned from having my best buddy become a cop, it's that the cops are salivating for the moment you give them the excuse to use maximum force. It don't matter if you're 8, 18, or 80, blind, crippled, or crazy. You don't even have to be breathing!
I hate to be pedantic but I would have to put the word
some in there. There recently was an incident here at the local university where there were 200 or so drunk college students outside drinking and partying. (including minors). An ambulance had been called to transport someone in one of the dorms to the hospital. When the ambulance arrived, the students surrounded the ambulance and didn't allow it to leave. The police arrived and things went nuts. The students wouldn't disperse and so the police did use pepper spray to get them to move but that was it. In fact, the seargent, who I know very well, went out of his way to not use force such as his nightstick and tazer. And in the process of trying to cuff an uncooperative college student, his leg got twisted and broken in two places. The guy is out for 6 months to rehab and he has two little kids at home. He could've tased the guy and had him down quick, and would've been justified given he had drunk college students all over the place.
So I think some police officers may welcome the chance to use maximum force, but there are police officers who seriously do use it as a very last resort, even if it is non-lethal force and even to great risk to themselves.
good clarification, I agree.
Quote from: Jenne on June 29, 2010, 02:05:52 AM
Vene, sorry, but I call bullshit. She's on oxygen. She's obviously mentally and physically ill. Speaking as a granddaughter to a recently-deceased mentally and physically ill 82 year old, I have to say that any cop who'd TASE that lady rather than "take her down" another way is a fucking pussy.
Yeah, I said it.
And if that shit happened in front of me or mine, MY blood'd be spilled and probably someone else's (like one of the jackoffs in the blue suits threatening a sick old woman), and I'd be in jail for it. That shit should not fly. EVER.
I don't care if she had a fucking granade.
:mittens:
THIS
Quote from: Cramulus on June 29, 2010, 05:47:45 AM
(http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2009/08/Vomit.gif)
So there are some grams you won't cram?