Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Literate Chaotic => Topic started by: Ob_Portu on July 03, 2010, 08:45:57 PM

Title: Meditation.
Post by: Ob_Portu on July 03, 2010, 08:45:57 PM
Useful? Not useful?

Examples, descriptions..


Does this belong here or in the apple?
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Pope Pixie Pickle on July 03, 2010, 08:51:58 PM
probably in TFYS.

Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on July 03, 2010, 11:18:41 PM
What kind of meditation are you talking about? What kind of uses are you looking at?

If you mean clearing your mind, relaxing your body and breathing deep, it's pretty well established that it does improve both mental and physical health and performance, as well as reduce stress.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Jasper on July 04, 2010, 09:08:42 AM
I do something akin to meditation.  It's not serene or anything though. 

It's really just a mental exercise where I try to jar my mind with pure cognitive chaos as hard as possible without breaking anything permanently.

I do this on average a couple times a day for brief periods.

(Spent a while trying to describe and explain it, and failed)
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 09:13:03 AM
It helps to become more calm and self-aware, yes. It's like looking at yourself as an outsider.

There are some long-term unfortunate side effects though. Once you can distance yourself form your own emotions and ego-centric thinking well enough, you begin to see what a thoughtless and instinct-driven monkey everyone is, including yourself.
This kind of makes it hard to to be too bothered about anything. You lose your passions.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 04, 2010, 09:18:28 AM
I've done very basic form in class as a way of looking at dealing with stress etc.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Jasper on July 04, 2010, 09:21:01 AM
Quote from: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 09:13:03 AM
It helps to become more calm and self-aware, yes. It's like looking at yourself as an outsider.

There are some long-term unfortunate side effects though. Once you can distance yourself form your own emotions and ego-centric thinking well enough, you begin to see what a thoughtless and instinct-driven monkey everyone is, including yourself.
This kind of makes it hard to to be too bothered about anything. You lose your passions.

You're just meditating on the wrong things.

Meditate on nuclear bombs sometime.  Tell me how dispassionate and serene you are after that.

This is no decade for calmness.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Cain on July 04, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
There is a Buddhist meditation where you concentrate on death and destruction.  I cant remember exactly what it is called though.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Brotep on July 04, 2010, 03:52:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on July 04, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
There is a Buddhist meditation where you concentrate on death and destruction.  I cant remember exactly what it is called though.

Are you referring to the one wherein you visualize yourself as a corpse and watch yourself decay into nothing?
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Cain on July 04, 2010, 06:06:40 PM
That was part of it, but you also had to visualise yourself being torn apart by wild animals and other violent deaths too
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Jasper on July 04, 2010, 06:12:31 PM
I think I found a bit of information on it, and it seems like, again, the whole point is to make the person calm and detached.  Which is fine, for Buddhists.  I'd personally rather come out of a meditation session feeling deranged and unglued, ready to behave like a totally crazy asshole.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 04, 2010, 09:21:01 AM
You're just meditating on the wrong things.

Why I call meditation is attempting to stop thought.
You just listen to your breathing (or non-vocal music) and try to let that be your only occupation.
Attempt not to think of anything, judge anything or react to anything.

You can't actually meditate ON something. Not the way I see it anyway.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Jasper on July 04, 2010, 06:31:31 PM
I said I do something akin to it.  It's more like intense focus to the exclusion of all else. 

I've tried it your way, but had to invent mine because it felt like I was wasting time.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Brotep on July 05, 2010, 01:59:20 AM
I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish?


Quote from: SigmaticI'd personally rather come out of a meditation session feeling deranged and unglued, ready to behave like a totally crazy asshole.
In that case, skip the meditation and go spend some time with my mother.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Triple Zero on July 05, 2010, 06:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ob_Portu on July 03, 2010, 08:45:57 PM
Useful? Not useful?

useful.

QuoteExamples, descriptions..

sit down and think about nothing, don't think about anything, let thoughts drift away.

try it for 20 minutes session per day, for three days.

you should notice some sort of difference.

it's not earth-shattering or anything, but it shows that results can come pretty quickly and aren't some far away ungraspable target (like enlightenment).

Quote
Does this belong here or in the apple?

TFYS. I can move it if you like.
Quote from: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 09:13:03 AMThere are some long-term unfortunate side effects though. Once you can distance yourself form your own emotions and ego-centric thinking well enough, you begin to see what a thoughtless and instinct-driven monkey everyone is, including yourself.
This kind of makes it hard to to be too bothered about anything. You lose your passions.

if this was your experience, and you felt it was unfortunate, it sounds more like a problem with you, than as a long-term side effect of meditation.

i might suggest you'd either deal with those problems through meditation, or in some other way.

and otherwise, boo hoo.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Kai on July 05, 2010, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on July 04, 2010, 09:33:09 AM
There is a Buddhist meditation where you concentrate on death and destruction.  I cant remember exactly what it is called though.

It's a type of contemplative meditation. The most often one is meditation on the series of decay that corpses go through, from just after death to where the bones turn to dust, and all the foulness in between. The purpose is to remove attachment to the body, and realize its impermanence.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Ob_Portu on July 05, 2010, 08:33:41 PM
Yeah I've tried most of those meditations and agree on the usefulness of them..

Just wondering if others found the same.

I find myself more open and loving, compassionate, afterwards.

That could just be a result of being calmer though. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Telarus on July 05, 2010, 09:29:52 PM
The effects of Western Society:

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/05/psychological-resear.html

Psychological research and WEIRD nations
David Pescovitz at 12:20 PM Monday, Jul 5, 2010

A new University of British Columbia psychological study used a new acronym to help explain why results from behavioral studies on people in Western nations don't usually represent the rest of the world. It's because we're WEIRD ("Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic.") The research is in the scientific journals Nature and Behavioral and Brain Sciences (http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayIssue?jid=BBS&volumeId=33&issueId=2-3&iid=7825832). From the UBC:
Quote"The foundations of human psychology and behavior have been built almost exclusively on research conducted on subjects from WEIRD societies," says UBC Psychology and Economics Prof. Joe Henrich, who led the study with UBC co-authors Prof. Steven Heine and Prof. Ara Norenzayan. "While students from Western nations are a convenient, low-cost data pool, our findings suggest that they are also among the least representative populations one could find for generalizing about humans."

The study, which reviews the comparative database of research from across the behavioural sciences, finds that subjects from WEIRD societies are more individualistic, analytic, concerned with fairness, existentially anxious and less conforming and [less] attentive to context compared to those from non-WEIRD societies.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: SuperNull on July 06, 2010, 06:39:42 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 05, 2010, 06:50:22 AM
Quote from: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 09:13:03 AMThere are some long-term unfortunate side effects though. Once you can distance yourself form your own emotions and ego-centric thinking well enough, you begin to see what a thoughtless and instinct-driven monkey everyone is, including yourself.
This kind of makes it hard to to be too bothered about anything. You lose your passions.

if this was your experience, and you felt it was unfortunate, it sounds more like a problem with you, than as a long-term side effect of meditation.

i might suggest you'd either deal with those problems through meditation, or in some other way.

and otherwise, boo hoo.

I'm not complaining. Stuff is as it is.
Just pointing out that if you become more calm and observant you also become less involved and distant.
If people know and love as a raging asshole, then being meditative will have some social consequences ;)
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 06, 2010, 11:48:57 AM
Quote from: SuperNull on July 06, 2010, 06:39:42 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 05, 2010, 06:50:22 AM
Quote from: SuperNull on July 04, 2010, 09:13:03 AMThere are some long-term unfortunate side effects though. Once you can distance yourself form your own emotions and ego-centric thinking well enough, you begin to see what a thoughtless and instinct-driven monkey everyone is, including yourself.
This kind of makes it hard to to be too bothered about anything. You lose your passions.

if this was your experience, and you felt it was unfortunate, it sounds more like a problem with you, than as a long-term side effect of meditation.

i might suggest you'd either deal with those problems through meditation, or in some other way.

and otherwise, boo hoo.

I'm not complaining. Stuff is as it is.
Just pointing out that if you become more calm and observant you also become less involved and distant.
If people know and love as a raging asshole, then being meditative will have some social consequences ;)

I suspect if you don't know how to be passionate in a manner that isn't angry, this may be the case for a while. I think it's worthwhile to explore different avenues for continuing your passion, while being more calm and better adjusted, rather that rejecting the whole thing as counterproductive.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 06, 2010, 05:40:20 PM
This could be one of the most spoiled, self-indulgent and oddly smug conversations ever to take place on the internet.
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Cramulus on July 06, 2010, 05:52:13 PM
 ^
|
This could be one of the most spoiled, self-indulgent and oddly smug posts ever to take place on the internet.

:troll:
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: AFK on July 06, 2010, 05:58:14 PM
"Hearing this, the man was enlightened"
Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: AFK on July 06, 2010, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: Ob_Portu on July 03, 2010, 08:45:57 PM
Useful? Not useful?

Useful, depending on your goal. 

QuoteExamples, descriptions..

Go for a walk somewhere quiet.  Utilize any hiking trails, state parks, etc. you may have in the area.  Just hang out in nature for an hour or so.  Maybe take a pad of paper along if you like to write or draw.  Or maybe an instrument you play. 

If you can, go without a cell phone or other wireless/technological device.  The more detached you are from the hustle and bustle of the "real world" the better.  If you must take one, turn it off so it doesn't ring. 

A little solitude amongst the quiet of nature can be very therapeutic.  Plus, the physical exercise will help as well. 

Title: Re: Meditation.
Post by: Jasper on July 06, 2010, 07:01:32 PM
Quote from: RWHN on July 06, 2010, 05:58:14 PM
"Hearing this, the man was enlightened"

Around here, the traditional ending to any proper koan should be

"Upon hearing this, the man decided to start huffing nail polish."