There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think. Do you think current US Copyright Law needs reform? Should it be strengthened or weakened? For those outside of the country: What are the laws where you live? How do you feel about it?
I for one think copyright law in the United States needs to change. Most new works don't enter the public domain until 70 years after the author's death (http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm). As I understand, the goal of copyright is to encourage artists and thinkers to make new works by giving them a state granted monopoly over the distribution of their works. What will extending the term past their death accomplish? Do the dead need incentives to write books?
Not to mention, the ambiguity surrounding public domain has created many orphaned works (http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues/ow).
What's more, the current law punishes offenders unfairly. In one case, a man was sued for $675,000 for illegally downloading 31 songs. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/o-tenenbaum-riaa-wins-675000-or-22500-per-song.ars) If he had physically shoplifted the same amount of music from a record store, he would have owed the store 50 dollars at the most. Downloading 31 songs does not inflict $675,000 dollars worth of damages on the recording industry. Why does the current law award record companies thousands of dollars per stolen song?
Please share your thoughts.
Oh for the love of God.
:x
POOL IS ON THE ROOF.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
I THINK COPYRIGHT LAW SHOULD KILL 11/12THS OF THE HUMAN POPULATION. FOR THE DOLPHINS, MAN.
When I hear the word "copyright" I reach for my gun.
...Should I pull my story down?
Happiness is a warm copyright infringement injunction.
Quote from: Suu on July 09, 2010, 10:22:09 PM
...Should I pull my story down?
Naw. You've got a date/time stamp on it here.
Also, if the little fucknozzle does steal it, well, who's the google fu daddy? Oh, yeah.
And the peace of Copyleft, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and have your foolishness copyrighted
Hitch your wagon to a copyright lawyer.
Even so, even though I don't release my art and writing into Kopyleft (I prefer Creative Commons so I can maintain credit for my portfolio if the piece is good), I know I'm still protected.
And quite frankly, 70 years after I'm dead...more power to ya'll.
Neither irony nor copyright is argument
Remember, kids! Artists and musicians do what they do for the sheer joy of it! They don't need to make a living! Property is theft! RAAAAAAAAAWK!
Who sows virtue reaps creative commons
Courage is grace under copyright
Quote from: Cain on July 09, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
Who sows virtue reaps creative commons
And the LORD shall destroy the destroyers of the copyright watermark.
Copyleft is the playfield of Satan
All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness the important thing is they are protected by copyright laws
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is copyrighted.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has copyright lawyers on his side.
Al Qaeda is still a threat. We cannot pretend somehow that because Barack Hussein Obama got elected as president, suddenly they will cease their foolish copyleft jihad.
By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by copyright litigation, which is the bitterest.
All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of copyright, to determine the true hierarchy of values
A specter is haunting Europe - the specter of copyleftism.
MAGNETS. HOW DO THEY COPYRIGHT?
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts mirroring those of the copyright lawyer.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all copyrights are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that RIAA might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave musicians, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the intellectual property which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that copyright, under God, shall have another 70 years-- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not infringe upon it.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:27:14 PM
Remember, kids! Artists and musicians do what they do for the sheer joy of it! They don't need to make a living! Property is theft! RAAAAAAAAAWK!
I never said artists shouldn't be able to make a living. Please read my post again and review what I'm defending.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
Pirates had access to his story well before I came around. Anyone could have come here, copied the post, and put it on megaupload. Just because I'm here now shouldn't make a difference.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:44:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
Pirates had access to his story well before I came around. Anyone could have come here, copied the post, and put it on megaupload. Just because I'm here now shouldn't make a difference.
Hush, thief.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:52:57 PM
Quote
Hush, thief.
No.
Yes.
And I wonder why you specifically mentioned megauploads? I suppose I'll go check. If it's there, you won't be here.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:52:57 PM
Quote
Hush, thief.
No.
Yes.
And I wonder why you specifically mentioned megauploads? I suppose I'll go check. If it's there, you won't be here.
I mentioned megaupload because everyone knows megaupload. It was a good example.
I think you are implying I copied Charley's book and put it on megaupload.
I did not. I have never even read it.
If you do find his book on megaupload (which would surprise me, as it sounds like too obscure a book to be pirated), it could have been anyone who put it online. Anyone can upload files to that site for free without registering.
Edit: Also, why would anyone pirate a book they could already read on this forum for free?
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 11:00:00 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:52:57 PM
Quote
Hush, thief.
No.
Yes.
And I wonder why you specifically mentioned megauploads? I suppose I'll go check. If it's there, you won't be here.
I mentioned megaupload because everyone knows megaupload. It was a good example.
I think you are implying I copied Charley's book and put it on megaupload.
I did not. I have never even read it.
If you do find his book on megaupload (which would surprise me, as it sounds like too obscure a book to be pirated), it could have been anyone who put it online. Anyone can upload files to that site for free without registering.
Edit: Also, why would anyone pirate a book they could already read on this forum for free?
1. I don't believe you. You're a thief, after all.
2. They can't read it for free anymore. Because of you.
Quote
2. They can't read it for free anymore. Because of you.
That's not the point. It was free. Before, anyone could read it for free. There would be no reason to pirate it.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 11:06:15 PM
Quote
2. They can't read it for free anymore. Because of you.
That's not the point. It was free. Before, anyone could read it for free. There would be no reason to pirate it.
I know a guy who steals for the hell of it.
From what you wrote in chat, you're like that yourself.
What did he do?
I COPYRIGHT THIS THREAD!!!!
:argh!:
make it into a play read by gay indians
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 09, 2010, 11:45:02 PM
I COPYRIGHT THIS THREAD!!!!
:argh!:
make it into a play read by gay indians
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: SET IN TUCSON
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 09, 2010, 11:45:02 PM
I COPYRIGHT THIS THREAD!!!!
:argh!:
make it into a play read by gay indians
Just for my clarification, are we talking Native Americans, or citizens of India?
You might have well just have asked Twilight Part 2, or Bollywood during an actress strike?
I think someone pirated reality and turned it into a Kidz Bop CD.
ROCK AND FUCKING ROLL!
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think. Do you think current US Copyright Law needs reform? Should it be strengthened or weakened? For those outside of the country: What are the laws where you live? How do you feel about it?
I for one think copyright law in the United States needs to change. Most new works don't enter the public domain until 70 years after the author's death (http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm). As I understand, the goal of copyright is to encourage artists and thinkers to make new works by giving them a state granted monopoly over the distribution of their works. What will extending the term past their death accomplish? Do the dead need incentives to write books?
Not to mention, the ambiguity surrounding public domain has created many orphaned works (http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues/ow).
What's more, the current law punishes offenders unfairly. In one case, a man was sued for $675,000 for illegally downloading 31 songs. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/o-tenenbaum-riaa-wins-675000-or-22500-per-song.ars) If he had physically shoplifted the same amount of music from a record store, he would have owed the store 50 dollars at the most. Downloading 31 songs does not inflict $675,000 dollars worth of damages on the recording industry. Why does the current law award record companies thousands of dollars per stolen song?
Please share your thoughts.
Artists should be treated like slave labor. THey are here to dance when we say dance and sing when we say sing. They are entitled to jack shit. Their thougths should belong to me!
To the OP:
My thoughts upon having a spare hours or two, a rarity for me these days, to sit down with a cup of coffee and catch up one of my favorite threads on here only to find that some FUCKSTICK has decided to take a shit in my cornflakes are as follows: the FUCKSTICK responsible should eat shit and die in a fire.
So far, my thoughts on the matter have not changed.
Alty,
Not sleeping well these days.
Double copyright across the sky... oh my god! So intense!
Quote from: Telarus on July 10, 2010, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 09, 2010, 11:45:02 PM
I COPYRIGHT THIS THREAD!!!!
:argh!:
make it into a play read by gay indians
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: SET IN TUCSON
Sorry. I have copyrighted Tucson.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 10, 2010, 03:31:20 AM
Quote from: Telarus on July 10, 2010, 12:03:10 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on July 09, 2010, 11:45:02 PM
I COPYRIGHT THIS THREAD!!!!
:argh!:
make it into a play read by gay indians
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: SET IN TUCSON
Sorry. I have copyrighted Tucson.
I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT, SO I'MMA COPYRIGHT INFRINGE ON YUOR LIFE, BUD!
Everytime I hear the word copywrite I imagine a pack piranha's
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
This is the correct answer. Until this arrogant, stupid little fuck came along there was no concern whatsoever about anyone stealing my book.
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 11:00:00 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:52:57 PM
Quote
Hush, thief.
No.
Yes.
And I wonder why you specifically mentioned megauploads? I suppose I'll go check. If it's there, you won't be here.
I mentioned megaupload because everyone knows megaupload. It was a good example.
I think you are implying I copied Charley's book and put it on megaupload.
I did not. I have never even read it.
If you do find his book on megaupload (which would surprise me, as it sounds like too obscure a book to be pirated), it could have been anyone who put it online. Anyone can upload files to that site for free without registering.
Edit: Also, why would anyone pirate a book they could already read on this forum for free?
Self-pwnage
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
This is the correct answer. Until this arrogant, stupid little fuck came along there was no concern whatsoever about anyone stealing my book.
There were pirates here before I came here. I know because I've talked to them.
Hell, even if there were no pirate members, any pirate could have lurked here and copied your book.
Are you new to the internet? Don't you know anything you post publicly can be copied and read by anyone?
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
This is the correct answer. Until this arrogant, stupid little fuck came along there was no concern whatsoever about anyone stealing my book.
There were pirates here before I came here. I know because I've talked to them.
Hell, even if there were no pirate members, any pirate could have lurked here and copied your book.
Are you new to the internet? Don't you know anything you post publicly can be copied and read by anyone?
Why are you still here you miserable little thief? You have no concept of trust or honor.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 09, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
There was a conversation in the IRC channel about copyright earlier. I was curious what you all think.
1. I think we've had this discussion 5 times since January.
2. I think you're a complete fucking shitneck. Thanks to you, Charley pulled down his story-in-progress. I was enjoying reading that, and you fucked it up. Way to break it, hero. Now, fuck off.
He decided to remove the story. Not me. I can't be held responsible for what he does with his own story.
If he removed his whole story just because one person advocated copyright reform, he should have removed the story along time ago. There are thousands of us on the internet and anyone can read what is posted here.
You're a thief. When a thief is around, you lock up your stuff.
This is the correct answer. Until this arrogant, stupid little fuck came along there was no concern whatsoever about anyone stealing my book.
There were pirates here before I came here. I know because I've talked to them.
Hell, even if there were no pirate members, any pirate could have lurked here and copied your book.
Are you new to the internet? Don't you know anything you post publicly can be copied and read by anyone?
Greaaaat.
It's not a matter of what we know, is a matter of trust. I post my rough drafts here so that I can get unbiased opinions from people that show a genuine interest. Note: I said rough. Anyone who would want to seriously consider stealing anything I write from this or any other website has to at least have the common sense to know that I, and every other author, probably has a word document, with a timestamp, saved on their own home computer. Shit, I keep handwritten works still, because that's how I am.
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
I have artwork and more writing posting on my website, I know I'm protected, and I've had to invoke my rights before when I've had my art stolen. It works, and I got a girl thrown in jail for 9 days because of it.
My intellectual property is MINE. Charley's intellectual property is HIS, and I won't let some know-it-all ingrate tell me otherwise.
Go preach your anti-copyright and pseudo-anarchism somewhere else.
-Suu
Is a fucking industry professional. D/N/T.
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But
I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work.
Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable.
He never accused me of pirating his work.Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work. Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable. He never accused me of pirating his work.
Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
There is no saving yourself now, so don't even try.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work. Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable. He never accused me of pirating his work.
Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
You openly admitted to being a fucking thief. Was I supposed to just wait around for you to steal my work? Go fuck yourself.
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work. Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable. He never accused me of pirating his work.
Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
You openly admitted to being a fucking thief. Was I supposed to just wait around for you to steal my work? Go fuck yourself.
Charley - there were other "thieves" on the board before I got here. You just didn't know it.
OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work. Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable. He never accused me of pirating his work.
Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
You openly admitted to being a fucking thief. Was I supposed to just wait around for you to steal my work? Go fuck yourself.
Charley - there were other "thieves" on the board before I got here. You just didn't know it.
I bet your mommy always tells you that you are right, doesn't she?
Go justify yourself on another board shitstain.
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 11, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
For me, it's not a matter that you stole it, it's the fact that you were stupid enough to do so. You may bitch and get all anti-copyright all you want, but still, by law, everyone here on the internet is protected by Poor-Man's Copyright, which you have violated, whether you want to admit to it or not.
But I didn't steal anything.
Charley did not take his story down because I pirated his work. Nobody has pirated his work. . To my knowledge, it hasn't appeared on any file sharing websites.
Charley took his story down because we were discussing copyright law in the IRC channel and I mentioned I was pro copyright reform and belonged to a private bit-torrent tracker and that made him uncomfortable. He never accused me of pirating his work.
Please don't make false accusations against me. Perhaps you have just misunderstood what's being said in this thread.
You openly admitted to being a fucking thief. Was I supposed to just wait around for you to steal my work? Go fuck yourself.
Charley - there were other "thieves" on the board before I got here. You just didn't know it.
I bet your mommy always tells you that you are right, doesn't she?
Go justify yourself on another board shitstain.
I see you've chosen name-calling over addressing the issues at hand.
And your point?
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?
2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.
Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?
2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.
Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.
That says it all.
I'm all in favor of excoriating people at any perceived provocation. However, malvarma still hasn't made it to 50 posts. It is customary to show a modicum of forgiveness this early on. I think at this point all it should take is malv just backing down a bit and apologizing.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 11, 2010, 07:03:29 PM
I'm all in favor of excoriating people at any perceived provocation. However, malvarma still hasn't made it to 50 posts. It is customary to show a modicum of forgiveness this early on. I think at this point all it should take is malv just backing down a bit and apologizing.
50 posts is only a suggestion and this started in IRC.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 11, 2010, 07:03:29 PM
I'm all in favor of excoriating people at any perceived provocation. However, malvarma still hasn't made it to 50 posts. It is customary to show a modicum of forgiveness this early on. I think at this point all it should take is malv just backing down a bit and apologizing.
What should I apologize for? I did not pirate his story.
He took it down because I mentioned I was pro-copyright and belonged to a bit-torrent tracker during a conversation on IRC.
I'm not apologizing for believing in copyright reform.
What should I apologize for?
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?
2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.
Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.
That says it all.
Yes. I told you. I do not understand the trust part. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Did you trust everyone on the internet was not a pirate?
Please read my post again and explain to me why I am a threat to your intellectual property, but thousands of internet pirates can be trusted.
I forgot, nobody is ever willing to back down from any sort of conflict if it means being the first one to do so. Because civility is just too unthinkable. Pardon me.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 11, 2010, 07:16:09 PM
I forgot, nobody is ever willing to back down from any sort of conflict if it means being the first one to do so. Because civility is just too unthinkable. Pardon me.
Tell me what to apologize for and I'll do it.
Charley, I apologize if I made you upset, but I'm not apologizing for my copyright politics.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 07:10:02 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?
2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.
Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.
That says it all.
Yes. I told you. I do not understand the trust part. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Did you trust everyone on the internet was not a pirate?
Please read my post again and explain to me why I am a threat to your intellectual property, but thousands of internet pirates can be trusted.
You are dense aren't you? There has always been IP on this board and it has been for the most part respected. On the rare occasions it hasn't been respected then the thieves have been banned and it is not easy to get banned from here. See, here we trust each other and a lot of what is posted here is Kopyleft and noted as such. All Kopyleft can be used as long as it is not for profit and if the OP is credited.
Just because you waltz in here claiming theft is just fine kind of walks all over the trust factor and therefore I removed my story. Also as long as you are here it will remain removed.
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:18:18 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 07:10:02 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 06:42:45 PM
And your point?
That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.
If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.
I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?
1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?
2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.
Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.
That says it all.
Yes. I told you. I do not understand the trust part. Maybe you can explain it to me.
Did you trust everyone on the internet was not a pirate?
Please read my post again and explain to me why I am a threat to your intellectual property, but thousands of internet pirates can be trusted.
You are dense aren't you? There has always been IP on this board and it has been for the most part respected. On the rare occasions it hasn't been respected then the thieves have been banned and it is not easy to get banned from here. See, here we trust each other and a lot of what is posted here is Kopyleft and noted as such. All Kopyleft can be used as long as it is not for profit and if the OP is credited.
Just because you waltz in here claiming theft is just fine kind of walks all over the trust factor and therefore I removed my story. Also as long as you are here it will remain removed.
1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work. Like I mentioned before, I haven't even read it. My politics are separate from my behavior towards friends, and I wouldn't repost anything from this board without asking first.
2. There are other members here just like me, who believe in copyleft principles, yet you did not take your work down for their sake. They believe in the same ideas as me, but you have given them your trust. Any one of them could have pirated your work, yet none of them did. And neither have I.
3. You have not considered non-member pirate lurkers who could have pirated your work without even becoming a member or agreeing to your unwritten contract of trust. So really, your work was always at risk of being pirated. My arrival changed nothing.
4. I never claimed theft was fine. In our chat on IRC, I told you I believe artists should receive compensation for their hard work. I only argued that
A. Works should enter Public Domain sooner than then already do and
B. That in spite of piracy, artists could still make money by adopting new business models that take piracy into account.
Of course, you might argue I implied taking an artist's hard work without paying for it was fine because I told you I downloaded music. Like I explained to you, there are two types of music I download online.
1. Works by pro-piracy independent artists and copyleft music
2. Works by artists who are long dead.
Only the second is illegal, but I don't see it as theft, because the artists can no longer make money off it anyway. Just because something is the law doesn't make it right, and I'm sure all the recreational marijuana users, or anyone who has driven 5 miles over the speed limit will agree with me.
Despite pirating music, I still buy CDs from new living artists who I think deserve it.
Please, I in no way wish for your copyright to be infringed. I hope we can come to an understanding.
Sorry if I made you upset.
I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.
Oh hey, Greg already emailed me back. He must not be busy.
Quote
Hey Angela,
Long time no chat indeed! Thanks for the note, and for the questions.
As we've discussed previously, fan art can be a sticky subject and it's surrounded by a world of gray matter when it comes to legalities. One thing is for sure, the subject of the artwork is always the property of the creator. Plain and simple. Then, it is up to the creator to decide whether they will permit fan creations of their work or not. Fortunately in the comic industry, the majority of the creators are very lax about this. We look forward to other interpretations of our work and I personally find it very flattering.
Fan art is also a fantastic way to find new artists for the industry! It's how I got my job, after all. It's also a great way for new artists to sharpen their own techniques. Copying off of a seasoned artist's work has been the way of many masters going back hundreds of years. Even the Romans copied Greek artwork. Fan art is only a serious issue if the artist either boasts that the creation is their own, or makes an incredible amount of profit off of it. Both of these instances are rare, but they can occur, as you have unfortunately experienced before. This is where a lot of strange gray areas come in.
For example, anyone can draw Spider-Man, and it's a sure bet that 99.9% of the human race will know that Spidey is Stan Lee's creation, and not their's. But if you trace an existing cell of him, then you could have issues, because then it's a true copy, and not just a fan interpretation of Spidey.
Now, in the case let's say of when you were working on Radical Empire, no one knew what the heck that was, and if you posted cells on the internet, it could have been snagged and you could have been screwed. Fortunately, you knew to not put anything high-res on your website, so when the thief tried to pass off prints of your artwork and bad sketches of your characters as her own, you had her pinned, because screen resolution prints like crap, and they didn't have your little stickers of authenticity on them. GOOD JOB!
Now writing is a completely different beast, I'm afraid, darling. Especially with the internet. The best advice I can give any paranoid writer is to keep their work away from prying eyes until publishing. However, on the flip side, offering your draft to an internet message board, in the case of the instance you presented me, is also a great way to get some great 3rd party advice and editing.
My advice to you and to anyone who is interested in making a career out of writing, or just looking to get a book published, is to be VERY careful as to where and when you release it to the public. Yes, most word processing programs on your computer will keep a log as to when it was created, and yes, the Poor-Man's Copyright method of mailing it to yourself is still a viable option, but with today's technology, both can be faked. Chances are the average pirate won't go through the pains of making sure they have enough false evidence, but I wouldn't hold it against the super-nerds out there. I mean, if they have enough time on their hands to make stupid computer viruses at the same time as reading my comics and living in their mother's basement at age 45, then well, who's to say they won't hack a word document either?
Making your writing available on the internet is still, in the end, your choice, but I would recommend a website like Fictionpress or Scribd to host it rather than a simple cut and paste on a forum. That will give you a little more protection, but not a guarantee.
I do hope that this helps! And please don't be a stranger.
As for New York Comic Con, I haven't signed on as a guest yet, but I'll let you know if something develops.
Sincerely,
Greg Land
Thanks Suu. You are great!
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:53:03 PM
I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.
Thank you for understanding. I also accept this truce.
I pledge to all members here that I will not copy anything you post without permission.
Charley, I hope in time, you can learn to trust me and repost your story, for the benefit of your fans.
After reading Suu's letter, perhaps you can consider hosting on sites like Fictionpress or Scribd to give you extra protection.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 07:58:07 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on July 11, 2010, 07:53:03 PM
I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.
Thank you for understanding. I also accept this truce.
I pledge to all members here that I will not copy anything you post without permission.
Charley, I hope in time, you can learn to trust me and repost your story, for the benefit of your fans.
After reading Suu's letter, perhaps you can consider hosting on sites like Fictionpress or Scribd to give you extra protection.
Quoted for possible future use.
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 07:33:40 PM
1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work.
So you admit that piracy is morally wrong. Good job, kid! You'll have an ethical standard in no time!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 11, 2010, 08:00:32 PM
Quote from: malvarma on July 11, 2010, 07:33:40 PM
1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work.
So you admit that piracy is morally wrong. Good job, kid! You'll have an ethical standard in no time!
Don't just quote mine. Read my entire post.
QuoteOf course, you might argue I implied taking an artist's hard work without paying for it was fine because I told you I downloaded music. Like I explained to you, there are two types of music I download online.
1. Works by pro-piracy independent artists and copyleft music
2. Works by artists who are long dead.
Only the second is illegal, but I don't see it as theft, because the artists can no longer make money off it anyway. Just because something is the law doesn't make it right, and I'm sure all the recreational marijuana users, or anyone who has driven 5 miles over the speed limit will agree with me.
:)
Regardless, the war is over now.
War over only refers to me, I speak for none other.
I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on July 12, 2010, 03:22:57 AM
I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.
I'm just being an ass. :lulz:
I stand by everything I said ITT
Quote from: Cain on July 09, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is copyrighted.
This was one of my favorites.
Ayn Rand produced gibberish, but surprisingly high quality gibberish.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on July 12, 2010, 03:22:57 AM
I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.
It's my molehill and I'll make it as big as I want. :lol:
Quote from: Cain on July 12, 2010, 01:56:18 PM
Ayn Rand produced gibberish, but surprisingly high quality gibberish.
Actually, her work seemed like badly written romance novels to me.
Her fiction was, but her non-fiction was ironclad bullshit of the highest order.
Quote from: Cain on July 12, 2010, 05:47:35 PM
Her fiction was, but her non-fiction was ironclad bullshit of the highest order.
I only tried her two main novels. They were absolute garbage, both as stories and as political screeds.
I tried one (I think it was Atlas is Awesome or something) once but made it only a third of the way through when I was bored to death by the main characters Twilightish self-centered shallowness... it could have got better for all I know. Or maybe that was the point. Maybe the books where just satires of her own political belief system, or maybe they're just retarded... I have no plans on finding out anytime soon.
All I know from Rand is what I get from her internet followers who try to apply her teachers to real people... in the real world... kind of like all I really know about Ron Paul.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on July 12, 2010, 03:22:57 AM
I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.
I've seen Malvarma in IRC, and he/she/it is a pedantic fuckknuckle that won't STFU. I approve of any action that makes him/her/it GTFO.
GET OFF MAH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTAH
\
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_391/1240392626Je9oFu.jpg)
Nice Jug!
Quote from: Cramulus on July 12, 2010, 06:40:42 PM
GET OFF MAH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTAH
\
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_391/1240392626Je9oFu.jpg)
I will turn the best WOMP of this pic into an emoticon.
Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 12, 2010, 06:40:42 PM
GET OFF MAH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTAH
\
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_391/1240392626Je9oFu.jpg)
priceless! :lulz:
What is that in the barn? Looks like an O or a 0.
Quote from: RWHN on July 12, 2010, 06:51:44 PM
What is that in the barn? Looks like an O or a 0.
I think that image was 'watermarked'.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 12, 2010, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Cain on July 12, 2010, 01:56:18 PM
Ayn Rand produced gibberish, but surprisingly high quality gibberish.
Actually, her work seemed like badly written romance novels to me.
Agreed. It's like a bad sex story, complete with corny erotic dialog. Except right before they get down to business, some character pontificates a preachy overwrought philosophical monologue.
(There's actually a part in either Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead where a monologue about philosophy directly segues into a sex scene. I spent 20 minutes trying to find where it is, but I'm having trouble. If any one knows the scene I'm talking about, please post. It's hilarious. )
Ayn knew how to get those Wallstreet types off.
suu's avatar :lulz:
Quote from: dimo on July 12, 2010, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on July 12, 2010, 03:22:57 AM
I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.
I've seen Malvarma in IRC, and he/she/it is a pedantic fuckknuckle that won't STFU. I approve of any action that makes him/her/it GTFO.
don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. :lulz:
Quote from: malvarma on July 12, 2010, 10:49:42 PM
There's actually a part in either Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead where a monologue about philosophy directly segues into a sex scene. I spent 20 minutes trying to find where it is, but I'm having trouble. If any one knows the scene I'm talking about, please post. It's hilarious.
STOP SOLICITING PIRACY!! :argh!:
\
:hashishim:
Quote from: Telarus on July 12, 2010, 10:14:25 PM
Quote from: RWHN on July 12, 2010, 06:51:44 PM
What is that in the barn? Looks like an O or a 0.
I think that image was 'watermarked'.
I thought maybe it was trying to divide by zero.