I've been really interested in reading/studying Carl Jung's Red Book (Liber Novus), but unfortunately, it costs $120. I ended up finding a copy of it online. I don't know what PD's rules are as far as sharing things, so I won't link it just yet.
This book looks really heavy, and I think it might be best to read it as a group. If anyone's interested, let me know.
Liber Novus
(http://svalibrary.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/carl_jung_red_book_1.jpg)
Carl Jung's Liber Novus has been called his most personal work. It's a manuscript filled with medieval calligraphy and illustrations that Jung himself produced. It documents Jung's explorations of his own unconscious mind, and was written during a 16-year period in which he created some of his most influential theories.
(http://dreamstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Philemon.jpg)
The manuscript is a result of Jung's practice of Active Imagination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_imagination), in which he translated the contents of his unconscious mind into symbols and narratives. Active Imagination is very similar to automatic writing and other ways of creating art while shutting off any self-criticism or censorship.
(http://207.56.179.67/finding_oz/assets_c/2009/12/RedBook-thumb-350x479-2096.jpg)
During his process of active imagination, he experienced two figures, Elijah and Salome, whom he credited with giving him "the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life." One review says that this book is essentially about a modern man losing his soul and attempting to rediscover it.
(http://www.visionaryquest.org/images/JungRedBook03.jpg)
Following his death, Jung's estate refused to allow the Liber Novus to be published, so it became something of a holy grail for Jung fanatics. In fact, by 2009, only around 20 people had actually seen it in person. Finally, at the end of that year, Jung's grandson was persuaded into allowing it to be translated, footnoted, and published.
It's now available in a gorgeous reproduction, along with annotations and and English translation- for the hefty sum of $120.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46577000/jpg/_46577319_redbook12.jpg)
I'm really interested in studying it, but it definitely seems like something that would be great to study in a group.
Please let me know if you're interested.
How many pages is it?
Im not too fond of Jung, but itd be nice to see just how mental he actually was.
I've seen that book. I remember leafing thru it looking for synchronicities.
The english translation that I have is 140 pages. However, it doesn't include the images in the translation, which sucks.
I'm really enjoying it so far, I'd never read any Jung before this, but it's surprisingly accessible. Plus some of the themes seem distinctly familiar:
QuoteIt is no teaching and no instruction that I give you. On what basis should I presume to teach you? I give you news of the way of this man, but not of your own way. My path is not your path therefore I cannot teach you. The way is within us, but not in Gods, nor in teachings, nor in laws. Within us is the way, the truth, and the life.
Woe betide those who live by way of examples! Life is not with them. If you live according to an example, you thus live the life of that example, but who should live your own life if not yourself? So live yourselves.
Do not be greedy to gobble up the fruits of foreign fields. Do you not know that you yourselves are the fertile acre which bears everything that avails you?
Since I don't believe in magic or souls, his communication with his soul part threw me initially. But then it clicked that what he was describing was eerily similar to experiences I've had attempting communication with different levels of my own consciousness. So I'm hooked.
DU, how do you want to proceed - wait until everyone who is interested has finished and then discuss, or a free-for-all of dissemination?
I'm not really sure what the best way to do this would be. I thought it might be best to do it chapter-by-chapter or something, but we could just wait til everyone's finished with it, too.
I didn't know if anyone would be interested, so I'll start reading it tomorrow.
I have to admit, I don't find the actual accounts of his conversations with the various people in his dreams as fascinating as the introduction, but this made me laugh:
QuoteDream person: I'm no old pagan as you seem to think.
Jung: I don't want to insist on that. You are also not pompous and Latin enough.
Quote from: DiscoUkulele on July 29, 2010, 10:59:28 PM
I've been really interested in reading/studying Carl Jung's Red Book (Liber Novus), but unfortunately, it costs $120. I ended up finding a copy of it online. I don't know what PD's rules are as far as sharing things, so I won't link it just yet.
There's probably copyright on the translation and such, but if the book is from 1930 [wikipedia] doesn't that mean the copyright's expired?
Also, wtf is up with 1930, so many awesome mindblowing things happened in that decade:
1930-31 Gödel's completeness theorems
1930 Discovery of Pluto
1935 EPR paradox (quantum)
1936 Turing's proof for undecidability of the Halting Problem
there were some other things that were significant to me, but I can't come up with them right now.
Quote from: DiscoUkulele on August 01, 2010, 07:05:07 AM
I'm not really sure what the best way to do this would be. I thought it might be best to do it chapter-by-chapter or something, but we could just wait til everyone's finished with it, too.
I didn't know if anyone would be interested, so I'll start reading it tomorrow.
How is it going?
Since the first section/book is only about ~20 pages long, do you mind if we discuss that before finishing the whole thing? My motivation in liber secundus is lagging, and I feel fresh insight would probably help.
This looks fucking fascinating.
I'd love to see it.
Quote from: Captain Utopia on August 04, 2010, 05:25:27 AM
Quote from: DiscoUkulele on August 01, 2010, 07:05:07 AM
I'm not really sure what the best way to do this would be. I thought it might be best to do it chapter-by-chapter or something, but we could just wait til everyone's finished with it, too.
I didn't know if anyone would be interested, so I'll start reading it tomorrow.
How is it going?
Since the first section/book is only about ~20 pages long, do you mind if we discuss that before finishing the whole thing? My motivation in liber secundus is lagging, and I feel fresh insight would probably help.
Yeah, sure. That's fine :D What are your thoughts so far?
If anyone is interested in the book, shoot me a PM.
I had read about this 5-6 months ago and forgotten all about it. I'm not all that much of a fan of Jung myself, but this book cetainly piqued my interest. This is available now? Or just for those who know where to find it?
Personally, I think Jung makes Freud look sane, but I'm sure I have a copy of this somewhere...
Quote from: Cuddlefish on August 04, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
I had read about this 5-6 months ago and forgotten all about it. I'm not all that much of a fan of Jung myself, but this book cetainly piqued my interest. This is available now? Or just for those who know where to find it?
It's in print for $120, but the PDF is really easy to find online.
Quote from: DiscoUkulele on August 04, 2010, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on August 04, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
I had read about this 5-6 months ago and forgotten all about it. I'm not all that much of a fan of Jung myself, but this book cetainly piqued my interest. This is available now? Or just for those who know where to find it?
It's in print for $120, but the PDF is really easy to find online.
I'll take a look around, thnx.
I went ahead and got a copy. the damn thing is bigger than my head.
Personally, I've always been incredibly interested in Jung's archetypes and his work that influenced the personality types.
I stopped reading Liber Novus for now and am currently working on The Gnostic Jung which contains his Seven Sermons to the Dead.
So far it has been an interesting read on Jungian psychology with Gnostic teachings. It compares and analyzes Jung's gnostic mythological references and psychological interpretations of the work.
Quote from: Risus on August 05, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
I went ahead and got a copy. the damn thing is bigger than my head.
Personally, I've always been incredibly interested in Jung's archetypes and his work that influenced the personality types.
I stopped reading Liber Novus for now and am currently working on The Gnostic Jung which contains his Seven Sermons to the Dead.
So far it has been an interesting read on Jungian psychology with Gnostic teachings. It compares and analyzes Jung's gnostic mythological references and psychological interpretations of the work.
Awesome. I've been meaning to read that. I'm gonna have to look for it now.
Quote from: Risus on August 05, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
I went ahead and got a copy. the damn thing is bigger than my head.
what, a dead tree version for $120 ?? it sounds a littlebit terribly overpriced to me, even if it's bigger than your head.
When I hear things about Freud and Jung, I realize just how far psychiatry is from psychology and science in general.
well, yeah. over here it is based upon another 4 year study/practice upon regular medicine. which, although taught at a university, makes it a craft, not a science. nothing wrong with that though.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 06, 2010, 09:06:41 PM
well, yeah. over here it is based upon another 4 year study/practice upon regular medicine. which, although taught at a university, makes it a craft, not a science. nothing wrong with that though.
The problem with it not being science is, of course, that much of it turns out to be wrong, and that the workers involved are less likely to question their beliefs.
Yes but the good thing about it is that it's an actual craft.
Quote from: Risus on August 05, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
I went ahead and got a copy. the damn thing is bigger than my head.
Personally, I've always been incredibly interested in Jung's archetypes and his work that influenced the personality types.
I stopped reading Liber Novus for now and am currently working on The Gnostic Jung which contains his Seven Sermons to the Dead.
So far it has been an interesting read on Jungian psychology with Gnostic teachings. It compares and analyzes Jung's gnostic mythological references and psychological interpretations of the work.
Still reading
The Gnostic Jung. Decided to look up the author, Stephan Hoeller.
One of the things I've appreciated about this Gnostic Jungian world view is the stress placed upon individuation-
QuoteIn developmental psychology - particularly analytical psychology - individuation is the process through which a person becomes his/her 'true self'. Hence it is the process whereby the innate elements of personality; the different experiences of a person's life and the different aspects and components of the immature psyche become integrated over time into a well-functioning whole. Individuation might thus be summarised as the stabilizing of the personality.
[bold mine]
a process in which you become more of a "whole" person, described in
The Gnostic Jung in ways that remind me of the Discordian "Think for yourself, schmuck."
Incidentally, while researching Stephan Hoeller, I came across this quotation on his wikipedia page, in which he describes his understanding of Gnosticism.
QuoteI think we could describe it as a very early form of Christianity, very different in many respects from what Christianity became later on. It is much more individualistic. It is much more orientated toward the personal, spiritual advancement and transformation of the individual, regarding figures such as Jesus as being helpers rather than sacrificial saviors. It is a form of religion that has a much more ecumenical and universal scope in terms of its relationship to spiritual, religious traditions other than the Christian.
I would say that this appears to be, as far as Gnosticism is concerned, the time that the Greeks called the kairos, the time when the Gods are reborn. We live in an age, I think, when certain timeless ideas, which have been submerged and subdued for a long time, are making their appearance once again. In that respect we're living in very interesting times as the Chinese would say. Interesting times, spiritually powerful times, always cast a great shadow. There will also be great difficulties, but I think that Gnostic traditions, along with a number of kindred ideas, are being reborn at this time, and will have a significant influence in the future. Those of us who find ourselves working within that field are singularly blessed that we can do this work at this particular time. So I feel I'm at the right place and at the right time and I am profoundly grateful for all of that.
[bold, underline mine]
I just thought the synchronicity was interesting, what with "The Interesting Times" being thrown around here often, and would encourage anyone whose interest is piqued to look more into this sort of thing.
Also, if anyone knows where I could find an electronic copy of
The Gnostic Jung and the Seven Sermons to the Dead by Stephan Hoeller, could they let me know?