Are you sure there is no such things as ghosts?
Are you sure the paranormal doesn't exist?
Will you mock me for knowing otherwise?
Have fun then.
You have not seen. You have not experienced. You choose to not accept such things. Pleas feel free to mock me. I know the site I post this and I expect it. Please continue along in your certainty that such things simply don't exist because you have never experienced them.
But remember to not come to me when you do. I will not have sympathy or understanding for you, as you have not had for me.
Fly away in your certainty. Enjoy that. I wish to hell I could.
I will leave this sitting here.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE / Hamlet Act 1. Scene V abt. 1601
I think that should say where I stand on the matter.
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 05:27:36 AM
I will leave this sitting here.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE / Hamlet Act 1. Scene V abt. 1601
I think that should say where I stand on the matter.
It's pretty ambigious.
I agree with you.
Now I don't immediately jump to the 'omg paranormal' reasons, but I've seen and felt things.
I believe you Charley.
Just out of curiousity, is this going to make it into LoN? Cuz it sounds like it could be pretty good.
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 05:36:07 AM
I agree with you.
Now I don't immediately jump to the 'omg paranormal' reasons, but I've seen and felt things.
So have I. Anyone who decides we are wrong is no different than those who spout shit because Rush said it. Just because they haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on August 27, 2010, 05:41:05 AM
I believe you Charley.
Just out of curiousity, is this going to make it into LoN? Cuz it sounds like it could be pretty good.
Yes it will. Spooky shit all the way.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 05:42:59 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on August 27, 2010, 05:41:05 AM
I believe you Charley.
Just out of curiousity, is this going to make it into LoN? Cuz it sounds like it could be pretty good.
Yes it will. Spooky shit all the way.
Awesome!
1) no, but find it unlikely
2) Question too vague
3) believing, of course not.... "knowing", possibly
You can't rail against "certainty" then you claim you "know". You can say "this what I believe I saw, but claiming certainty on something like this is a little much.
I hope you understand what I mean. I wish I could phrase this better... my mind is extremely jumbled tonight, as it was earlier today, for reasons I rather not discus.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on August 27, 2010, 05:47:42 AM
1) no, but find it unlikely
2) Question too vague
3) believing, of course not.... "knowing", possibly
You can't rail against "certainty" then you claim you "know". You can say "this what I believe I saw, but claiming certainty on something like this is a little much.
I hope you understand what I mean. I wish I could phrase this better... my mind is extremely jumbled tonight, as it was earlier today, for reasons I rather not discus.
I saw what I saw, whether you agree with it or not. I have seen things more than once, but then afain, I am not a close minded person.
Maybe it isn't my place to speak up, but I most certainly believe that you have seen things. I have seen and felt many things in my short time. I have felt the presence of pure evil, and its the only time in my life when I was truly terrified. It was this experience that convinced me that there are two things in this world of ours at least that certainly exist, true evil... and a soul.
Quote from: phoenixofdiscordia on August 27, 2010, 05:56:06 AM
Maybe it isn't my place to speak up, but I most certainly believe that you have seen things. I have seen and felt many things in my short time. I have felt the presence of pure evil, and its the only time in my life when I was truly terrified. It was this experience that convinced me that there are two things in this world of ours at least that certainly exist, true evil... and a soul.
Tank you. Continue to keep your mind open to possibilities.
I've seen ghosts. I don't know what they are, but I know something exists that fits the description of "ghost". I was a diehard skeptic, too, until I moved into this house.
I haven't seen them since the remodel. I really have no theories about this.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 05:50:20 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on August 27, 2010, 05:47:42 AM
1) no, but find it unlikely
2) Question too vague
3) believing, of course not.... "knowing", possibly
You can't rail against "certainty" then you claim you "know". You can say "this what I believe I saw, but claiming certainty on something like this is a little much.
I hope you understand what I mean. I wish I could phrase this better... my mind is extremely jumbled tonight, as it was earlier today, for reasons I rather not discus.
I saw what I saw, whether you agree with it or not. I have seen things more than once, but then afain, I am not a close minded person.
I hate typing this cause it so stock....
I have not seen, or read of any evidence to convince me that spirits, or ghosts, which are undocumented and outside of the realms of study, exist.
If evidence comes along then I would say something could be likely.
That is not being closed minded.
Plus I don't know what you saw so I am in no position to have any opinion of it.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on August 27, 2010, 06:04:01 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 05:50:20 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on August 27, 2010, 05:47:42 AM
1) no, but find it unlikely
2) Question too vague
3) believing, of course not.... "knowing", possibly
You can't rail against "certainty" then you claim you "know". You can say "this what I believe I saw, but claiming certainty on something like this is a little much.
I hope you understand what I mean. I wish I could phrase this better... my mind is extremely jumbled tonight, as it was earlier today, for reasons I rather not discus.
I saw what I saw, whether you agree with it or not. I have seen things more than once, but then afain, I am not a close minded person.
I hate typing this cause it so stock....
I have not seen, or read of any evidence to convince me that spirits, or ghosts, which are undocumented and outside of the realms of study, exist.
If evidence comes along then I would say something could be likely.
That is not being closed minded.
Plus I don't know what you saw so I am in no position to have any opinion of it.
Not to be hurtful, but your opinion has no meaning to me on this topic. If you ever experience any of this, then perhaps it will. I am not bound by your lack of experience. Instead I am influenced by the experiences I have personally had.
I could respond that Charley but the post will be too embarrassing (to myself) so I'm not going to discuss this... sorry
I will respect your privacy if you will respect my experiences.
I didn't say I didn't respect your experiences. I said I find the existence of ghosts unlikely.
There's a difference between the two. I hope you see that difference.
Sort of like I'm an anti-anarchist, but I still respect the people on this board who maintains that as their political view. It's a bad example, but it's the best I could come up with.
How did you know it was a ghost and not otherwise?
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on August 27, 2010, 06:29:42 AM
How did you know it was a ghost and not otherwise?
Does it matter if it was a "ghost" per se? I think not. Regardless of what it was, Charley had a paranormal experience, which he believes to be a ghost, or at least equates it to one. So how it came to be, what the reality of its existence was, etc., is not something to be pedantic about. If he believes that what he saw can most accurately be described as a ghost, then does it matter if it was/is not a formerly living being or a traditional ghost as we understand it?
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on August 27, 2010, 06:29:42 AM
How did you know it was a ghost and not otherwise?
I will discuss one experience. My wife, myself, 2 cats and 1 dog watched a woman walk through our living room into a bathroom with no exits. I jumped up and ran into the bathroom, which was empty. A few days later as I was showering I felt hands run down my back. No one was there or could have been there.
I haven't had any personal experiences myself, but I do believe in the paranormal. For one thing, we still don't know nearly enough about the world around us to start making judgments over what can't be possible or not. Until there's, in my opinion, completely sound proof that a phenomena isn't possible, then I'll keep my mind open. The rest is just tactics.
Keeping an open mind just seems like a good survival tactic. If I keep an open mind, then I won't get killed because I'm too busy trying to pretend that whatever it is isn't possible. The Scully approach will get you in deep shit.
I've seen weird shit happen. Since I can't even begin to understand how it was that I experienced what I experienced, I've chosen not to call it anything except weird shit.
Of course and as always, that's just my take on it. If I labeled it something, that would mean (to me) that I understood what it was that happened. I don't. What if it wasn't a ghost, but rather the Hand of God? What if it was a fluxxuation in the gravity field? What if it was a microstroke? What if it was a false memory? What if it was a visit from the Fae? What if the CIA flashed my memory? Calling it any one of those things would mean I had additional evidence or understanding of what happened. I don't.
So yeah, weird shit has happened to me.
Well, I have had several unusual things happen that I can't explain. I just allow my brain to label it for ease of conversation.
Where I grew up, if you talked about something like this, you just said what you saw. The old people would then just tell some of the things they had seen.
For those of you who don't like the labels, they rarely ever put a label on it, and I guess just considered it part of life.
Weird, huh?
I have had some extremely crazy things happen to me. It's left me with the view that there is measurable reality, which science can talk about and experiential reality where maybe more stuff exists, but as it isn't measurable, science can't speak to it. I use labels when talking to people that will understand the labels, I've stopped using labels around here (or even discussing such things for the most part) because it just goes badly.
Malaclypse the Younger began Discordianism as an Atheist. His experiences as a Discordian, however, disabused him of the notion.
Okay, let's assume ghosts exist.
What then? I mean, I hate most people, and the notion that they won't even go away if they die fills me with rage. If there are ghosts, we need to find a way to troll them. That is all.
Quote from: phoenixofdiscordia on August 27, 2010, 06:35:17 AM
Does it matter if it was a "ghost" per se?
Did you really just say "per se"?
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
Where I grew up, if you talked about something like this, you just said what you saw. The old people would then just tell some of the things they had seen.
For those of you who don't like the labels, they rarely ever put a label on it, and I guess just considered it part of life.
Weird, huh?
I get where you're coming from.
For me (subjective opinion), the word "ghost" has implications that can't necessarily be determined from what you told me you experienced; that is, you saw the spirit or residue of a previously living human being that somehow continued on after death, maintaining its anthropomorphic shape and movement.
I know, I know. Son of a scientist.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
Where I grew up, if you talked about something like this, you just said what you saw. The old people would then just tell some of the things they had seen.
For those of you who don't like the labels, they rarely ever put a label on it, and I guess just considered it part of life.
Weird, huh?
I get where you're coming from.
For me (subjective opinion), the word "ghost" has implications that can't necessarily be determined from what you told me you experienced; that is, you saw the spirit or residue of a previously living human being that somehow continued on after death, maintaining its anthropomorphic shape and movement.
I know, I know. Son of a scientist.
But 'ghost' is easier to type than 'paranormal'.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 04:46:47 PM
Okay, let's assume ghosts exist.
What then? I mean, I hate most people, and the notion that they won't even go away if they die fills me with rage. If there are ghosts, we need to find a way to troll them. That is all.
:lulz:
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
Where I grew up, if you talked about something like this, you just said what you saw. The old people would then just tell some of the things they had seen.
For those of you who don't like the labels, they rarely ever put a label on it, and I guess just considered it part of life.
Weird, huh?
I get where you're coming from.
For me (subjective opinion), the word "ghost" has implications that can't necessarily be determined from what you told me you experienced; that is, you saw the spirit or residue of a previously living human being that somehow continued on after death, maintaining its anthropomorphic shape and movement.
I know, I know. Son of a scientist.
But 'ghost' is easier to type than 'paranormal'.
UNFO; Unidentified Non-Flying Object? ;-)
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 04:46:47 PM
Okay, let's assume ghosts exist.
What then? I mean, I hate most people, and the notion that they won't even go away if they die fills me with rage. If there are ghosts, we need to find a way to troll them. That is all.
:lulz:
I also :lulz:
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
Where I grew up, if you talked about something like this, you just said what you saw. The old people would then just tell some of the things they had seen.
For those of you who don't like the labels, they rarely ever put a label on it, and I guess just considered it part of life.
Weird, huh?
I get where you're coming from.
For me (subjective opinion), the word "ghost" has implications that can't necessarily be determined from what you told me you experienced; that is, you saw the spirit or residue of a previously living human being that somehow continued on after death, maintaining its anthropomorphic shape and movement.
I know, I know. Son of a scientist.
But 'ghost' is easier to type than 'paranormal'.
I still think "weird shit" is the most concise and accurate description.
Maybe so. For all we know when this shit happens it is a weakness in the curtain between parallel universes and they are actually real people from a different time or place.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 05:00:13 PM
Maybe so. For all we know when this shit happens it is a weakness in the curtain between parallel universes and they are actually real people from a different time or place.
Exactly :)
The amount of things we currently know about the universe that would have to be wrong for that to be the case makes that explanation highly improbably, but... yeah. Could be.
I know, but I just stuck it out there.
To those of you who have PM'ed me about this (and who will forever remain un-named) thank you and I understand why.
I guess I just put my stupid on display all the tine, so I am used to it.
:D
Worse thought. When I die, I could become a ghost. Then, when you slack-jawed monkey fuckers act all stupid, I won't even be able to choke you.
There is a hell. :tgrr:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 05:39:57 PM
Worse thought. When I die, I could become a ghost. Then, when you slack-jawed monkey fuckers act all stupid, I won't even be able to choke you.
There is a hell. :tgrr:
But you might be able to ice their balls at a critical moment.
I have had to much weird shit happen to me not to believe that there is "something" out there. Call it a ghost, spirit, discernable energy, whatever. I believe.
My mother sends me really weird messages on the radio. So how can I argue against that?
Quote from: Khara on August 27, 2010, 06:11:09 PM
I have had to much weird shit happen to me not to believe that there is "something" out there. Call it a ghost, spirit, discernable energy, whatever. I believe.
My mother sends me really weird messages on the radio. So how can I argue against that?
Like I said, I'm only speaking to my own beliefs, given the evidence I've seen.
Maybe the paranormal is afraid of Dok Howl? I could just imagine a ghost or some shit trying to haunt him. It would not end well the haunt.
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
Maybe the paranormal is afraid of Dok Howl? I could just imagine a ghost or some shit trying to haunt him. It would not end well the haunt.
More like frustration. I'd just write off a ghost as lingering cactus hallucinations. Eventually, the ghost would write me off as retarded and leave.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
Maybe the paranormal is afraid of Dok Howl? I could just imagine a ghost or some shit trying to haunt him. It would not end well the haunt.
More like frustration. I'd just write off a ghost as lingering cactus hallucinations. Eventually, the ghost would write me off as retarded and leave.
:lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
Maybe the paranormal is afraid of Dok Howl? I could just imagine a ghost or some shit trying to haunt him. It would not end well the haunt.
More like frustration. I'd just write off a ghost as lingering cactus hallucinations. Eventually, the ghost would write me off as retarded and leave.
"Fucking hell dude, I am like trying to tell you some really fucking important shit. PAY FUCKING ATTENTION!!!!!"
"Fuck me, what was in this cactus. Normally they aren't so talkative. Fucking hallucinations."
"Fuck you asshole, I'm off to go try to reach someone else to warn them of the impending doom of humanity"
So, if we all die, it's Dok Howl's fault.
And....I drug this a wee bit OT.
Back on topic.
I lived in a house that was haunted. My mother saw the woman. I tend to believe her, she isn't dumb. My sister claims to have seen it, she is excitable and was young when she did. They never lived in that house, just visited it. I spent 3 years in this haunted house. Saw NOTHING. But every fucking night I would hear foot steps coming from the second story. Shit fucking pissed me. That is my, might have been something, but I think it was just shit settling all the fucking time.
I've encountered other shit that I will accept as being real shit that didn't make sense, random localized cold spots and shit out the corner of my eye, that is probably just my imagination...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Secret Level on August 27, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
Maybe the paranormal is afraid of Dok Howl? I could just imagine a ghost or some shit trying to haunt him. It would not end well the haunt.
More like frustration. I'd just write off a ghost as lingering cactus hallucinations. Eventually, the ghost would write me off as retarded and leave.
:mittens:
It's a better answer than we might suppose. We are forced to operate on unguaranteed, uninsured, unverified hardware, and trusting our brains is probably the easiest mistake an intelligence can make. More and more, we're discovering that thoughts, memories, and perceptions are not as perfect. Perceptions are untrustworthy, at least until they are verified by many different people, in many different times and places, and well documented. The caveat is that life isn't really like that, and you have to make decisions with little or no data, and plenty of disinformation. We don't have the luxury of perfect rational agency, most of the time.
So I guess my latest and greatest thoughts on Weird Shit is that if it makes sense to you, with the limited given facts and resources at your disposal, to act as if ghosts exist, then that's your prerogative.
I've seen and felt a lot of logically inexplicable stuff. A lot to me, anyway. I like to think that all possibilities exist - ghosts, energetic memories impressed upon a location, parallel universes, etc. I don't know where, what, or how, but I like pondering the ideas and what could cause it.
Once I was shot by a dead man. I was in the tunnel connecting two admin buildings and a man in a tweed suit and a really pissed off expression appeared before me, pointed a gun, and pulled the trigger. I felt the impact on my chest like the sensation you get when a bee buzzes past your ear. And my shirt had a really thin, pale spot where the 'bullet' hit. It freaked me the hell out.
I don't know if it matters but I was twenty minutes from Gettysburg at the time.
Quote from: Sigmatic on August 27, 2010, 09:22:59 PM
It's a better answer than we might suppose. We are forced to operate on unguaranteed, uninsured, unverified hardware, and trusting our brains is probably the easiest mistake an intelligence can make. More and more, we're discovering that thoughts, memories, and perceptions are not as perfect. Perceptions are untrustworthy, at least until they are verified by many different people, in many different times and places, and well documented. The caveat is that life isn't really like that, and you have to make decisions with little or no data, and plenty of disinformation. We don't have the luxury of perfect rational agency, most of the time.
So I guess my latest and greatest thoughts on Weird Shit is that if it makes sense to you, with the limited given facts and resources at your disposal, to act as if ghosts exist, then that's your prerogative.
This is all good points.
I haven't really experienced anything paranormal in my life.
The closest things is when I got a horrible "vibe" from a seemingly normal stranger standing on the street. As I approached, I got a funny feeling that something wasn't quite right, like when someone's staring at you for too long. And as I got even closer a terrible feeling of fear welled up in me and actually I broke out into a run. I was with my mom at the time, and she said that she felt it too.
That isn't very unusual, I guess, but I walk by scary bums and tweakers all the time and don't get the same feeling of raw danger like I did then. Maybe he was a murderer or rapist?
Thanks for sharing your experiences guys.
My personal opinion is that people see what they see, and that dismissing their experiences on basis that it lies outside of testable, verifiable science is wrong.
I for one enjoy hearing about other people's weird experiences, even if I don't necessarily believe in it myself. After all, distinguishing what is Reality (which is weird anyway) from what is a product of our flawed meat consciousness is difficult, and a lot of the time we don't end up with a satisfying answer.
Quote from: Nast on August 27, 2010, 10:16:53 PM
I haven't really experienced anything paranormal in my life.
The closest things is when I got a horrible "vibe" from a seemingly normal stranger standing on the street. As I approached, I got a funny feeling that something wasn't quite right, like when someone's staring at you for too long. And as I got even closer a terrible feeling of fear welled up in me and actually I broke out into a run. I was with my mom at the time, and she said that she felt it too.
That isn't very unusual, I guess, but I walk by scary bums and tweakers all the time and don't get the same feeling of raw danger like I did then. Maybe he was a murderer or rapist?
I think this, whatever it is, is real. I have seen the friendliest dogs in the world snarl and avoid a person, for no apparent reason at all. I have met or seen people that made me want to respond in the same way.
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 27, 2010, 11:09:39 PM
Quote from: Nast on August 27, 2010, 10:16:53 PM
I haven't really experienced anything paranormal in my life.
The closest things is when I got a horrible "vibe" from a seemingly normal stranger standing on the street. As I approached, I got a funny feeling that something wasn't quite right, like when someone's staring at you for too long. And as I got even closer a terrible feeling of fear welled up in me and actually I broke out into a run. I was with my mom at the time, and she said that she felt it too.
That isn't very unusual, I guess, but I walk by scary bums and tweakers all the time and don't get the same feeling of raw danger like I did then. Maybe he was a murderer or rapist?
I think this, whatever it is, is real. I have seen the friendliest dogs in the world snarl and avoid a person, for no apparent reason at all. I have met or seen people that made me want to respond in the same way.
I think it's real too, but I don't have an explanation. It seems to go deeper than body language, or if it is that, it's a very subtle aspect of it. If you see someone with their fists clenched and an angry expression on their face, you obviously know they're angry and to avoid them. But if someone's just standing there doing nothing in particular, how can you tell?
Maybe one of the smart people has an explanation, I sure don't.
I know what you mean on that, actually. I have learned to listen to that "there's-something-wrong-with-that-person" vibe. Tipped me off to a psycho (as in, legitimately deranged) and a pedo. I think it's biological, sort of like the uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley) in some ways (I read a suggestion somewhere that said that it's triggered by something telling us there's something wrong - mental illness, disease, etc. - with a person. I can't find the theory anywhere right now :sad: ). Maybe it's something like that?
I have had some extremely strange and unlikely experiences that, to be perfectly honest, holds a glimmer of possibility of the supernatural. But just barely a glimmer.
I'm fairly sure that ghosts arise from hardwired features of our neurology that have conferred evolutionary advantages in spite of their likely falsehood. I think they still can bring benefits in this day and age in terms of bonding with people, internal communication, and making sense of the world in a deeply felt way. But there usually are costs to psychologically investing in this worldview, from what I've observed.
It's a sign that a person is likely to have little practice in forming, and perhaps more importantly, dismantling ideas based on analysis, corroboration and testable evidence. The process for believing in the supernatural is connected to a person's suggestibility and is based on bypassing the parts of your mind that critically evaluate. I agree that this "critical bypass" can be a positive thing in many ways, but when adhered to dogmatically as 169% truth, I have to agree with that buttface Dawkins, insofar as it becomes corrosive to science and vice versa.
You're one of the few people I've come across, Charley, who advocates supernaturalism but also maintains an uncanny ability to say, "Oh, I was wrong," based on new information.
What do you think of science and skeptics in relationship to your experiences with ghosts?
I rely heavily on scientists and skeptics both to keep me...grounded, for lack of a better word. I think, like you say if one allows themself (sp) to fall into one set of dogma then that is an intellectual and spiritual dead end and inhibits growth as a person.
I do, however think an open mind is as critical to growth as the above. Like primitive people, (prehistoric, etc) I allow my brain to translate some things certain ways, ie, ghosts. However, if tomorrow some evidence came out that offered a real world explanation I would of course research it and reach my own conclusion.
I think there are so many things we do not know, that to spout of certain knowledge is foolish in the extreme.
I hope I answered your question.
Net?
Hey, thanks for letting me pick your brain on the topic.
I will not say there is no such thing as Ghosts. There's so much stuff that is around, that we use every day, that we can't satisfactorily explain, (Gravity, electricity, magnets, dark matter) On the other hand, I find it's healthy generally to maintain a certain level of scepticism. This is easy enough to do with other peoples crazy tales, and crackpot theories, but the test is, to apply it to your own experiences.
"But I saw it, it must be real". We are all far more easily tricked by our own eyesight, than we would care to admit.
"I know what I saw" Well, plenty of people see other stuff, that they don't know what it is. And accepted it. (Rainbows, Aurora Borealis)
"Mythology is full of cases" Well, yes it is, but it's also full of a whole load of other stuff too, that is preposterous. People don't neccessarily need any empirical evidence to believe in whatever they choose to believe in.
I have seen on a few occaisions, and felt those things that get called ghosts. Yet, I am not sure they were the Spirits of the dead. Or thinning of the fabric of time. Or Phase shifted Aliens. But they were something.
Something that has been described, elaborated on, made up, written about, faked, misunderstood, perhaps understood, by credible (as well as many drunk) people for thousands of years. I'm quite happy to suspend judgement on what it was that I saw, that someone else might call "Ghosts". I will say that is a phenomena,
that has been described throughout history, all over the world, in every Culture, that is somehow, as yet
unprovable, and unquantifiable in any way we can agree on. This phenomena, is what I expeienced.
Well, that's Ghosts covered. I also have a recovered memory of seeing a 2 or 3 foot high Fairy, swinging on the handles of my Grandfather's wheelbarrow one Sunday afternoon, when I was about 6 years old. A textbook Elf. Pointy ears, greenish skin, long, slanty eyes. kind of (here's where I sound like a complete wanker) sparkled in the sunlight. :oops: with a greeny, goldy, shiny, sparkly quality that isn't very common, or easy to describe. Thing is, I never remembered this until my mid thirties. But then It was like I had always known, but never cared to recall it, because it wasn't relevant. I just seemed to forget it, 10 minutes after it happened, and didn't think of it again for 30 years. There was no "revelation", or shock. Just some memory I had not been aware of. But am now.
If I said that yes, that I unequivocably believe in Fairies, they would not be anything like the one I saw that afternoon. But so many accounts of Fairies / Aliens have so many things that tie them together, missing time, abduction, flying, coming to in a City hundreds of miles away, with no explanation, pointy ears, green / grey skin. gifts that fade to nothing after the event has happened. So this phenomena, just opens up more questions, that I am no more qualified to answer, than someone who watched a Film on Dragons, could tell you whether they really breathed fire or not. So I'm suspending any judgement on this one too.
Right, I'm only going to mention this next thing, briefly, and observe my right not to give any details that would detract from the issue, (which, to me seems to be suspension of belief, without jumping to either / or decisions, which are just another type of absolute)
But, I was once, when I was 21, and not under the influence of any drug, and in broad daylight, visited by the Archangel Gabriel. I know it was him, because it said, "I am the Arcangel Ge' he'briel" (Spelling it like that, because that's how it sounded spelled)
I would treat all these stories with scepticism if they were from someone else. Not disbelief, but scepticism. So what makes my experiences any more real than theirs? Why am I so certain I'm not tricking myself, with tricky tricks? Or mental "episodes"? Fuck all, that's what. Only the fact, that that was them, and this was me. All three lots of events are here, stored in my memory, as "Things that happened to me" So that's as far as I can take it. So to answer your question, yes, I am sure that these things happened. To me.
But as to any explanation regarding what they were? No, most certainly not. I described them using the frames of cultural reference that are available for such events. But I have no idea what they all are, or what the fuck it all means. Even less of an explanation than I would have, if I had no experiences like this.
I will say, that there are more things under Heaven, than we can possibly explain. So it's just as well I'm not being asked to explain it all. Healthy Scepticism. Helps to keep you me sane.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 29, 2010, 10:03:02 AM
I will not say there is no such thing as Ghosts. There's so much stuff that is around, that we use every day, that we can't satisfactorily explain, (Gravity, electricity, magnets, dark matter) On the other hand, I find it's healthy generally to maintain a certain level of scepticism. This is easy enough to do with other peoples crazy tales, and crackpot theories, but the test is, to apply it to your own experiences.
"But I saw it, it must be real". We are all far more easily tricked by our own eyesight, than we would care to admit.
"I know what I saw" Well, plenty of people see other stuff, that they don't know what it is. And accepted it. (Rainbows, Aurora Borealis)
"Mythology is full of cases" Well, yes it is, but it's also full of a whole load of other stuff too, that is preposterous. People don't neccessarily need any empirical evidence to believe in whatever they choose to believe in.
I have seen on a few occaisions, and felt those things that get called ghosts. Yet, I am not sure they were the Spirits of the dead. Or thinning of the fabric of time. Or Phase shifted Aliens. But they were something.
Something that has been described, elaborated on, made up, written about, faked, misunderstood, perhaps understood, by credible (as well as many drunk) people for thousands of years. I'm quite happy to suspend judgement on what it was that I saw, that someone else might call "Ghosts". I will say that is a phenomena,
that has been described throughout history, all over the world, in every Culture, that is somehow, as yet
unprovable, and unquantifiable in any way we can agree on. This phenomena, is what I expeienced.
Well, that's Ghosts covered. I also have a recovered memory of seeing a 2 or 3 foot high Fairy, swinging on the handles of my Grandfather's wheelbarrow one Sunday afternoon, when I was about 6 years old. A textbook Elf. Pointy ears, greenish skin, long, slanty eyes. kind of (here's where I sound like a complete wanker) sparkled in the sunlight. :oops: with a greeny, goldy, shiny, sparkly quality that isn't very common, or easy to describe. Thing is, I never remembered this until my mid thirties. But then It was like I had always known, but never cared to recall it, because it wasn't relevant. I just seemed to forget it, 10 minutes after it happened, and didn't think of it again for 30 years. There was no "revelation", or shock. Just some memory I had not been aware of. But am now.
If I said that yes, that I unequivocably believe in Fairies, they would not be anything like the one I saw that afternoon. But so many accounts of Fairies / Aliens have so many things that tie them together, missing time, abduction, flying, coming to in a City hundreds of miles away, with no explanation, pointy ears, green / grey skin. gifts that fade to nothing after the event has happened. So this phenomena, just opens up more questions, that I am no more qualified to answer, than someone who watched a Film on Dragons, could tell you whether they really breathed fire or not. So I'm suspending any judgement on this one too.
Right, I'm only going to mention this next thing, briefly, and observe my right not to give any details that would detract from the issue, (which, to me seems to be suspension of belief, without jumping to either / or decisions, which are just another type of absolute)
But, I was once, when I was 21, and not under the influence of any drug, and in broad daylight, visited by the Archangel Gabriel. I know it was him, because it said, "I am the Arcangel Ge' he'briel" (Spelling it like that, because that's how it sounded spelled)
I would treat all these stories with scepticism if they were from someone else. Not disbelief, but scepticism. So what makes my experiences any more real than theirs? Why am I so certain I'm not tricking myself, with tricky tricks? Or mental "episodes"? Fuck all, that's what. Only the fact, that that was them, and this was me. All three lots of events are here, stored in my memory, as "Things that happened to me" So that's as far as I can take it. So to answer your question, yes, I am sure that these things happened. To me.
But as to any explanation regarding what they were? No, most certainly not. I described them using the frames of cultural reference that are available for such events. But I have no idea what they all are, or what the fuck it all means. Even less of an explanation than I would have, if I had no experiences like this.
I will say, that there are more things under Heaven, than we can possibly explain. So it's just as well I'm not being asked to explain it all. Healthy Scepticism. Helps to keep you me sane.
That is a very good stance to take, in my opinion, not that it matters. I have experienced a great many paranormal activities. Though many of them are highly ambiguous at best, there is the aforementioned incident that sticks out in my mind.
It occurred roughly five years ago, when I was fifteen or sixteen. One night, I was lying in bed at night, not too late. Maybe 9-10 o'clock. I had been reading, and dozed off a bit. I awoke suddenly, with a completely clear head (that is unusual, to say the leas). In the darkness I sensed a presence. It seemed to me to be purely malevolent, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't know why, but I felt that whatever it was was after my very soul, and that thought filled me with a terror that no physical consequence ever could. I am perfectly alright with my soul being damned by my own actions, but the idea that the monster in the dark would have it and do who knows what unspeakable terrors to it was beyond horrific. I did the only sensible thing, I ran screaming down the hall to my sister's room. I didn't wake anyone, but my parents came to see what was going on. My mother claimed that my reading material was too blame. It was Stephen King's
The Stand. I suppose the character of Flagg could be considered similar, but I had read the book numerous times before and not been scared. It also seemed to me that a character like Flagg would be more interested in trying to convert me to his way of thinking, which wouldn't have been hard at the time, perhaps not even now. This creature, however, had nothing in mind but harming me, of that I am sure. My parents, of course, refused to believe me. My sister may have. She always was more open-minded about such things... either way, she allowed me to stay in her room that night. In the light of the day, it seemed silly to me. But to this day, at night, especially when I'm alone, I get paranoid, though I have never again felt that presence. Also of note, before that experience, I had the carefree atheism and materialistic outlook that only the naive can posses, though I suppose I believed in a form of Christianity because my parents wanted me to. I was not a spiritual person, though I was not a hardcore skeptic either. I was just preoccupied with the immediate concerns, and didn't give much heed to that sort of thing. Since that time, I have become a scholar of religious and spiritual beliefs. I converted to Catholicism, though I don't necessarily believe everything a Catholic should. I consider myself a Buddhist and a Taoist. I also embraced Discordia at around the same time. I have very specific reasons for this: I find religious icons, of any sort, to be extremely comforting, whether they have any real power or not. It was/is easier for me to acquire Catholic/Christian symbols and get my parents to accept them. I find meditation, Tai Chi, and other practices of the sort to be relaxing in the extreme, and I feel a sense of peace when I do them. Many Taoist teachings reflect my own beliefs on the nature of the universe, and the Tao is a pretty neat symbol. As for Discordia, well the answer to that should be obvious enough.
Now i have said far more about myself on this forum than I intended to. Hopefully this story will give some insight into my character.
I think the problem with using "ghost" is that it privileges the hypothesis. As previous posters have pointed out, it could be a large number of things. Why privilege that particular hypothesis, rather than any of the others?
It's sorta like saying "Bob was murdered last night, it could be anyone of a thousand people who were in area. But who says Sally didn't do it? I'm not saying she DID it, but that we should keep her in mind in our investigations."
Replace with: Theres this confusing phenomenon, it could be any number of things. But who says it couldn't be ghosts? I'm not saying it IS ghosts, but that we should keep ghosts in mind in our investigations.
Let me try it on.
Last night I saw a ghost.
Last night I saw this confusing phenomenon, it could be any number of things. But who says it couldn't be ghosts? I'm not saying it IS ghosts, but that we should keep ghosts in mind in our investigations.
Nope, sticking with ghost. :lulz:
I enjoy that others are sharing experiences.
Ghost is cerrtainly more conducive to language. Even if it turned out they were really something called, erm, . .Revenential resonances, we might as well keep calling them Ghosts. Less consonants, easier to say, and while not everyone believes in them, at least everyone knows what the concept means. Anyway, if there's something strange, in your neighbourhood, who ya gonna call? Confusing Phenomenum Busters? That doesn't sound right!
Quote from: Charley Brown on August 29, 2010, 02:56:20 PM
Let me try it on.
Last night I saw a ghost.
Last night I saw this confusing phenomenon, it could be any number of things. But who says it couldn't be ghosts? I'm not saying it IS ghosts, but that we should keep ghosts in mind in our investigations.
Nope, sticking with ghost. :lulz:
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that privileging the ghost hypothesis, it is no different than picking one of 1000 people out as being a murderer without any evidence.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/19m/privileging_the_hypothesis/
It's a very wide spread fallacy, especially in religions.
I was making a joke.
A FEW YEARS AGO A I WAS WALKING DOWN A ROAD BECAUSE MY CAR BROKE DOWN AND I SAW A CAR COMING UP BEHIND ME SO I STUCK OUT MY THUMB TO HITCH HIKE AND THE CAR STOPPED AHEAD OF ME. I RAN UP TO THE PASSENGER SIDE AND OPENED THE DOOR. WHEN I OPENED THE DOOR A SKELETON POPPED OUT!
I never had anything really weird happen to me that I could liken to that. The weirdest things are:
1) at some point, going through my CD collection, I found the very first CD I ever bought twice. That's weird cause I wouldn't have bought it again, and at the time all my friends were into metal and stuff and this was a Happy Hardcore single, so it couldn't have been I accidentally picked it up at a party (people used to bring a selection of their own CDs to parties, and it could happen at the end of the night you put the wrong one in your bag). I still have both of them. I can't explain it. It's probably not a ghost, though.
2) one time on a railway station, sunny afternoon, I saw a girl with red eyes. Not an albino, just a pretty, slightly alternative looking girl. I had to catch a bus, so I couldn't check it out better. It could have been red contacts or some glint of the sun or maybe I saw it wrong. Also probably not a ghost. Maybe a vampire or alien or something like that, I can't rule that out 100%.
But that, that's really it.
Once, home alone, I saw in glass the reflection of someone leaving the side of my house toward the front. I went out front to check the only place they could have gone, and no one was there.
Otherwise, a few weird sounds here and there, or some things falling off shelves, but otherwise I haven't experienced any paranormal weirdness. Certainly nothing to confirm any particular kind of entity's existence.
Guys, you have to have an open mind. Too much intellectual clutter is too much intellectual clutter.
I've experienced a couple of things, some of which can be attributed to hypnogogic states, some not (due to lack of sleep paralysis). One fairly disturbing one that is recurrent is the feeling of a presence in the room. Occasionally I'll wake up in the middle of the night, and I'll have an intense thought that I must not, under any circumstances, open my eyes while the presence is still there. Reason being is that I know I'm not going to like what I see, and what I would see, for some reason, would then be able to see me. I know this sounds exactly like a fnord, but I don't associate it with anything like that. More accurately, it can see me, but for some reason can't do anything to me if my eyes are closed. On top of this, I am uncomfortable sleeping in a room where the windows don't have the shades pulled down or curtains closed. I don't want to see outside and I don't want the outside to see me. This of course makes sleeping in the summer kind of uncomfortable one way or the other.
Something more tangible and while I was fully awake occured when I first moved out of my mom's house. Coincidentally, it was to a house down the street that my grandparents owned at one point and that my mother and all of her siblings grew up in (and I ended up taking the attic, my mom's old room as my own) and my grandfather passed away in. I had basically met this woman at the bus stop, we got to talking, and I ended up taking care of her birds while she was away until I decided I didn't want to live with mom anymore, and bird lady offered to let me board for a couple of hundred bucks a month. Well, anyway, she had gone on another trip and I was alone, it was day time, I was sober and up in the attic. I heard some footsteps going down the stairs and some doors slamming. Naturally, it freaked me out quite a bit, and I cautiously went down the stairs to look around. I checked the whole bloody house, and not only was I definitely the only person in the house, but all the doors and windows were still locked, which naturally freaked me out more. I rationally told myself that it might have been one of her sons, who have keys, so the next time I saw them I asked them if they came over at all that particular week. Neither of them had. I told myself that it was probably my grandfather's shade coming by to visit on hearing that I had taken up residence in his old house, just to keep myself from being scared if it happened again, but it didn't.
A couple of my family members also experienced strange things in that house. The night that my great-granmother died, one of my aunts woke up my grandmother. My aunt was visibly shaken and cleaning her room. My grandmother asked her why she was cleaning her room at 2 in the morning, to which she responded, "Nana came in and yelled at me about the mess."
One of my uncles swore up and down that he would occasionally feel a hand on his shoulder.
This next one doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, probably because it was told to me a long time ago and I'm probably missing a vital detail that makes sense of it, but I'll include it here anyway, since all of my family members insist that it is true. When my grandfather had died, my family apparently had someone house sitting while they were at the funeral. There was a man at the door, offering his condolences and asking if everyone was ok. He was told that everyone was holding up, and that they were at the church if he wanted to go see them himself. He said he couldn't stay and was only stopping by to check in on them. When my family came back, they were told about the visitor. They couldn't think of who it was since everyone in the family was accounted for. They went through a photo album with her to try and figure out who it was. You know where this is going. She pointed out my grandfather as the visitor.
I can't say I've experienced ghosts myself. My kids say they have, my son used to have conversations with people who weren't there, he'd wave at nothing and say it was somebody, stuff like that. My nephew has spoken a couple of times about previously being old and dying and being buried under rocks, when he was really too young to be aware of that kind of burial. I can't say it means anything but it makes me wonder.
When I was a kid, maybe 4 or 5, I remember an incident where I floated away from my body and down the street, while I was fully conscious. I remember it completely, more vividly than anything else from that long ago. I'm told when I was 1, I used to have night terrors where I was physically punching and kicking at nothing, until the room my bed was in was blessed by a preacher, at which point the problem promptly stopped.
I was raised in a strictly religious family and have since rejected organized religion on the grounds that it is too easy to give up your personal autonomy to a set of beliefs you have no real understanding of, and doing that can't be morally right. It isn't to say I don't believe there's nothing beyond my 5 physical senses because I know there is, I just refuse to put names to it because then I'd start developing a religious attachment and building a dogmatic framework around it that would be false.
Knowing what I do about death (practically nothing), I can't say that I do or don't believe in ghosts. I can only say that because of various personal experiences I don't believe death is the absolute end for consciousness; but I have no way to know those experiences aren't complete bullshit, so I don't allow myself to base my actions or beliefs on them.
Oh, I just remembered a little something. This didn't happen to me, it's just hearsay:
My great grandmother was French Canadian and a devout Catholic. In her rose garden there was a statue of the Virgin Mary. I guess one day the people who were occupying the house after her death wanted to move it. When they tried to, though, they felt what they described as hands pulling it to anchor it in place.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on August 30, 2010, 07:12:51 AM
I've experienced a couple of things, some of which can be attributed to hypnogogic states, some not (due to lack of sleep paralysis). One fairly disturbing one that is recurrent is the feeling of a presence in the room. Occasionally I'll wake up in the middle of the night, and I'll have an intense thought that I must not, under any circumstances, open my eyes while the presence is still there. Reason being is that I know I'm not going to like what I see, and what I would see, for some reason, would then be able to see me. I know this sounds exactly like a fnord, but I don't associate it with anything like that. More accurately, it can see me, but for some reason can't do anything to me if my eyes are closed.
That sounds like classic sleep paralysis. I've had it twice now, that I can recall, and in addition to the paralysis, I have the exact same feelings and worries.
However, luckily, when it first happened to me I was already aware of what sleep paralysis was, and when I tried to move and it failed, I realised what it was and calmed down a degree. Not entirely, but because I knew this was meant to feel like this, I kept on top of it much easier than someone who had no clue what was going on would have done.
Quote from: Cain on August 30, 2010, 08:02:26 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on August 30, 2010, 07:12:51 AM
I've experienced a couple of things, some of which can be attributed to hypnogogic states, some not (due to lack of sleep paralysis). One fairly disturbing one that is recurrent is the feeling of a presence in the room. Occasionally I'll wake up in the middle of the night, and I'll have an intense thought that I must not, under any circumstances, open my eyes while the presence is still there. Reason being is that I know I'm not going to like what I see, and what I would see, for some reason, would then be able to see me. I know this sounds exactly like a fnord, but I don't associate it with anything like that. More accurately, it can see me, but for some reason can't do anything to me if my eyes are closed.
That sounds like classic sleep paralysis. I've had it twice now, that I can recall, and in addition to the paralysis, I have the exact same feelings and worries.
However, luckily, when it first happened to me I was already aware of what sleep paralysis was, and when I tried to move and it failed, I realised what it was and calmed down a degree. Not entirely, but because I knew this was meant to feel like this, I kept on top of it much easier than someone who had no clue what was going on would have done.
I'm capable of movement when this happens to me, so it's probably some other screwy sleep disorder. My brain likes to fuck with me when I'm falling asleep or wake up in darkness. I also have, on a couple of occasions heard malevolent voices. I also feel and hear electric shocks through out my body every so often, though i know what that particular thing is. Still sucks balls though. It's funny though, you have the conscious part of your brain telling you to calm down and another part of your brains saying, STFU! Shit's happening!
For some reason when I was a child I would experience sleep paralysis VERY often, like 3-4 nights a week. It would come in 3 forms,
1)Hallucinations(Stuff flying around the room)
2)If I dont see the Fnord it cant eat me(mentioned above, the eyes closed thing)
3)I cant move or open my eyes no matter how hard I try.
I only had 1 on two occasions but I soon became familiar with 2 and 3(ESPECIALLY 3). I was about 9 years old when this started and had no idea what sleep paralysis was. I slept on my stomach at the time so almost every time that I had type 3 I had a pillow in my face blocking my breathing. I ended up developing a fear of sleep and as a result suffered from Insomnia for several years and continue(to a lesser extent) to today.
Quote from: Cain on August 30, 2010, 08:02:26 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on August 30, 2010, 07:12:51 AM
I've experienced a couple of things, some of which can be attributed to hypnogogic states, some not (due to lack of sleep paralysis). One fairly disturbing one that is recurrent is the feeling of a presence in the room. Occasionally I'll wake up in the middle of the night, and I'll have an intense thought that I must not, under any circumstances, open my eyes while the presence is still there. Reason being is that I know I'm not going to like what I see, and what I would see, for some reason, would then be able to see me. I know this sounds exactly like a fnord, but I don't associate it with anything like that. More accurately, it can see me, but for some reason can't do anything to me if my eyes are closed.
That sounds like classic sleep paralysis. I've had it twice now, that I can recall, and in addition to the paralysis, I have the exact same feelings and worries.
However, luckily, when it first happened to me I was already aware of what sleep paralysis was, and when I tried to move and it failed, I realised what it was and calmed down a degree. Not entirely, but because I knew this was meant to feel like this, I kept on top of it much easier than someone who had no clue what was going on would have done.
I have panic attacks in my sleep and wake up paralyzed but trying to scream. All that comes out is a faint hissing. It sucks. A lot. I stay that way until I go unconscious again and wake up normally. It isn't really falling asleep because it's damn hard to go ni-ni in the midst of freaking the fuck out, I just sorta black out. I don't think this has anything to do with the paranormal, but yeah. It isn't the paralysis that bothers me anymore, it's the the god damn panic attacks. It does make me wonder how much of the other weird stuff that I do attribute to the paranormal is just another manifestation of my broken brain as opposed to something external.
Very interesting stuff.
ITT, We are all delusional, hallucinating psych cases Subconsciously trying to break out of the Matrix gifted with amazing Oracular superpowers Regularly baffled by Lady Eris.
I like this thread more and more with each addition.
My mother died in December of 2006. I was in Florida at the time. Some of you may recall. I brought home a lot of her things. One was my old radio alarm clock that she had used for years after buying me a new one for college, the only thing that worked on it was the alarm. I have no idea why I grabbed it, but I did and came home and plugged the sucker in.
About 3 weeks later I was woken up by a very staticy woman's voice talking over the radio. By the time I actually realized what was happening it had stopped.
From that night on, every night when we go to bed, you hear static and what almost sounds like a woman. The kid's started saying "goodnight nana" and it would immediately stop. However, it still happens every night.
I can't tell you how many nights I've woken up to this voice. Only three times has it been clear enough to understand.
Once a couple of days before my oldest son was hurt very badly on a broken fence we ditinctly heard her say JW don't climb and then static....
The second time was when I was having a lot of inner turmoil over the MS diagnosis. I mean at my age to have so much shit wrong with me. We distinctly heard her say Michelle take the damn shot.
The last time we heard anything was the last night I spoke to my father alive. She woke me up in the middle of the night and said call your father. I have never told anyone that and the guilt for not following through, eh well, that's my issue to take to the grave huh? They found my father dead on the kitchen floor a week later. No one had seen or heard from him since right before I last spoke to him.
So yeah Hawk, I believe. I believe that there are people so close to us that even death doesn't take them completely away. I also believe they send us messages in a lot of weird ways and if we listen it can make a big difference.
I also believe there are people who are so wronged in this life that they don't move on or whatever or wherever it is we go because pure emotion keeps them here.
I still have the radio, but mom hasn't said a word other than good night since May.
Damn.
I completely believe in the paranormal, supernatural, ghosts, wtf ever you want to call it. I believe in past lives, I have been called out on it, called crazy and what not, but eh.. lol. As i told my boyfriend last night, i keep life interesting, to which he snickered and walked away.... i'm pretty sure he was agreeing with me to an extent that i don't want to know... ANYWAY..
1st thing is one night about 3 years ago, i was sitting watching Braveheart with my little Bribri (7years old now, so was 4).. It had just started, and we were snuggled up eating popcorn. The wedding scene was on, when Bri announced "Momma we were there!!" well I thought she was meaning Th Gatherin' which is a local festival held the first weekend of the month every may.. I asked her if that was what she was referring to... which she corrected me that no, what she was thinking of was during the day light hours. So she described this scene in very great detail. the way only an excited, duchy 4year old can.
I mean at that point, what else can you do, when your child is looking at you to remember this place and time, large childish eyes full of emotion and verging on the edge of tears because you can't remember this wonderful amazing time that you and the child had together??? So i hugged her and kissed her cheek, and then thanked her for reminding me...... (all the while i was freaking out inside.) I remember having these "memories" when i was younger, just not THAT young..
I go looking for the supernatural (ghosts). We have a local legion around here, the blue light lady (elizabeth polly) i have looked for her more times than i can count, but eh, i'm not lucky enough
However what i can say, is that go into an open space (be it outside, in a small room, a cellar it doesn't matter).. the feeling of stepping into a cold space, where there is no explanation for the temp dropping just there. feeling the hair on the back of your neck and arms stand on end, and a feeling of a hand squeezing your insides, telling you that you shouldn't be there. I love this feeling, were you just "know" that something is there with you, something that you don't know is friend or foe. If i could afford it, i would spend all my time trying to find 'ghosts' but damn day job keeps getting in the way.
My love for the supernatural has gotten me 'known' around work and circles of my friends' friends. I make jewelry, i use only natural stones, many times ppl will ask me to make them specialty pieces, which i do. Sun-catchers and such (have a friend that makes dream catchers, so we will weave my stones in the dream catcher even... need to talk to her to get some more... hmmmm... ). People have said that my stones help them, that they aren't as apt to have the problems with their "supernatural" friends. (or as one said.. it chased the bad juju away teehhee)
I love this thread.
yes.