There ain't no old cowboys and there ain't no young wise men.
See, wisdom comes from living. The harder you live, hopefully the more wisdom you gain. It don't always happen that way, but a lot of the time it does.
Now, I'm not talking about how smart you are, or how much education you have, just about the hard earned wisdom that only life can teach. There ain't no books and there ain't no classroom that can teach that.
More please? I have the feeling that this will lead to good conversation. :D
Well, I ain't saying I am wise, but I am experienced. I know fire is hot. I know a good woman is worth fighting for. I know there are more important things than money, even if I do know I want more than my share.
I know good whiskey is better than bad whiskey. A good horse is as hard to find as a good woman. I know to treat both of them right.
I know there is a chance I may only be human once, and that I want to get every ounce out of it I can.
I also know a conversation, good or bad, has to usually have more than one person.
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
I don't talk much to people I just met in person unless I've had a few drinks. (I think LMNO and dimo can confirm this)
Will plan logistics accordingly.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
I don't talk much to people I just met in person unless I've had a few drinks. (I think LMNO and dimo can confirm this)
Will plan logistics accordingly.
Works for me, I have never met a stranger.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:10:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
I don't talk much to people I just met in person unless I've had a few drinks. (I think LMNO and dimo can confirm this)
Will plan logistics accordingly.
Works for me, I have never met a stranger.
We'll be in the same boat then. To hash out my original thought to that post, it seems like you have had a very thought provoking life, and it would be cool to talk with someone with that life experience who isn't a coworker or a relative, which brings its expected awkwardness and reticence.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:15:30 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:10:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
I don't talk much to people I just met in person unless I've had a few drinks. (I think LMNO and dimo can confirm this)
Will plan logistics accordingly.
Works for me, I have never met a stranger.
We'll be in the same boat then. To hash out my original thought to that post, it seems like you have had a very thought provoking life, and it would be cool to talk with someone with that life experience who isn't a coworker or a relative, which brings its expected awkwardness and reticence.
Hell, we'll buy each other a Scotch and to hell with barriers.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:19:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:15:30 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:10:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 04:59:59 AM
You know Charley, I look forward to eventually meeting you. If i read correctly, that will be in about 9 months.
Same here, but don't expect too much. I am just a country boy who doesn't know his place.
I don't talk much to people I just met in person unless I've had a few drinks. (I think LMNO and dimo can confirm this)
Will plan logistics accordingly.
Works for me, I have never met a stranger.
We'll be in the same boat then. To hash out my original thought to that post, it seems like you have had a very thought provoking life, and it would be cool to talk with someone with that life experience who isn't a coworker or a relative, which brings its expected awkwardness and reticence.
Hell, we'll buy each other a Scotch and to hell with barriers.
Deal! :cheers:
QuoteI also know a conversation, good or bad, has to usually have more than one person.
Sorry, something came up. Had to leave computer for a bit.
I really like that you're pointing out what wisdom is not. Like you said, wisdom isn't intelligence, or education. It's more...understanding how things work, so that you can the most out of what life throws at you. I think? It's kind of a hard to explain thing.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:23:34 AM
QuoteI also know a conversation, good or bad, has to usually have more than one person.
Sorry, something came up. Had to leave computer for a bit.
I really like that you're pointing out what wisdom is not. Like you said, wisdom isn't intelligence, or education. It's more...understanding how things work, so that you can the most out of what life throws at you. I think? It's kind of a hard to explain thing.
Knowing isn't necessarily the same as understanding.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:23:34 AM
QuoteI also know a conversation, good or bad, has to usually have more than one person.
Sorry, something came up. Had to leave computer for a bit.
I really like that you're pointing out what wisdom is not. Like you said, wisdom isn't intelligence, or education. It's more...understanding how things work, so that you can the most out of what life throws at you. I think? It's kind of a hard to explain thing.
Right on track.
Now here's a question: Do you think wisdom is something you have to learn, or can it develop on its own?
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:27:02 AM
Now here's a question: Do you think wisdom is something you have to learn, or can it develop on its own?
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:27:02 AM
Now here's a question: Do you think wisdom is something you have to learn, or can it develop on its own?
I think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
I'm wiser now than I was 2 years ago. I am less wise now than I will be in 2 years. If I was in a 3rd world country, perhaps I would be wiser at this age, but I can't know that.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:29:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:27:02 AM
Now here's a question: Do you think wisdom is something you have to learn, or can it develop on its own?
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
I guess a good analogy is relationships. Each time you break up with someone it hurts, but you learn something from it and are better for it next time around, either for yourself or the one you are with.
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
QuoteYou can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
Just realized that I may have taken you too literally. I thought you meant that the only way to gain wisdom is to have a tough life. What you actually meant is essentially what Dok Blight said, that wisdom comes from setbacks. So when you said pain, bruises and blood, you didn't mean soul scarring horror, but rather any scenario where you're forced to say "Next time I am definitely not going to do (insert mistake here)". Which I agree with.
My apologies, I have a tendency to take what people say to extremes. That is, if I interpreted correctly?
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:44:33 AM
QuoteYou can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
Just realized that I may have taken you too literally. I thought you meant that the only way to gain wisdom is to have a tough life. What you actually meant is essentially what Dok Blight said, that wisdom comes from setbacks. So when you said pain, bruises and blood, you didn't mean soul scarring horror, but rather any scenario where you're forced to say "Next time I am definitely not going to do (insert mistake here)". Which I agree with.
My apologies, I have a tendency to take what people say to extremes. That is, if I interpreted correctly?
Close. If I fail, expect me to run at it at least three more times before admitting defeat. It's a country thing.
James. You can't experience life through anyone else or some damn silly game. You have to get your face in the mud and feel it. You have to feel the exhileration of kicking somebodys ass to the curb.
Dammit, you have to experience life. In it's unpredictable fullness.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
When I was in high school starting to get together my first band, we wanted to write some songs about war. I mean, fuck, war is standard fare for a metal band. Problem was we were trying to recreate Metallica's "One." And one day we just realized it was silly. We didn't know shit about war. We were like, 16, 17, and Clinton was President. As far as we knew, America wasn't going to go to war anytime that we would be old enough to be soldiers. We decided not to write war songs. I had just turned 20 and my other guitarist was 19 when 9/11 happened. When the shock subsided, and neither of us volunteered to join up and kill the Islamic menace, we negated our old rule and started writing war songs. Not from a soldier's perspective, but from an angry, rational civilian's perspective. One was like, here's what happens to soldiers. The others were like, here's what opportunistic daddy issues presidents do to soldiers for stupid misguided reasons. Brendan wrote an excellent song after we invaded Iraq, called Red, White and Blue. When he and I split musically he wrote another great one called My Country Right or Wrong.
Those songs were wise songs, as opposed to the naive relative peace time drivel we were coming up with safely having a priveleged education at the Boston Public School system's second best.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:50:31 AM
James. You can't experience life through anyone else or some damn silly game. You have to get your face in the mud and feel it. You have to feel the exhileration of kicking somebodys ass to the curb.
Dammit, you have to experience life. In it's unpredictable fullness.
We are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:53:59 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
Co
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
When I was in high school starting to get together my first band, we wanted to write some songs about war. I mean, fuck, war is standard fare for a metal band. Problem was we were trying to recreate Metallica's "One." And one day we just realized it was silly. We didn't know shit about war. We were like, 16, 17, and Clinton was President. As far as we knew, America wasn't going to go to war anytime that we would be old enough to be soldiers. We decided not to write war songs. I had just turned 20 and my other guitarist was 19 when 9/11 happened. When the shock subsided, and neither of us volunteered to join up and kill the Islamic menace, we negated our old rule and started writing war songs. Not from a soldier's perspective, but from an angry, rational civilian's perspective. One was like, here's what happens to soldiers. The others were like, here's what opportunistic daddy issues presidents do to soldiers for stupid misguided reasons. Brendan wrote an excellent song after we invaded Iraq, called Red, White and Blue. When he and I split musically he wrote another great one called My Country Right or Wrong.
Those songs were wise songs, as opposed to the naive relative peace time drivel we were coming up with safely having a priveleged education at the Boston Public School system's second best.
Closer, you have to wallow in the shit to get wise.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:56:33 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:50:31 AM
James. You can't experience life through anyone else or some damn silly game. You have to get your face in the mud and feel it. You have to feel the exhileration of kicking somebodys ass to the curb.
Dammit, you have to experience life. In it's unpredictable fullness.
We are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Yes. Every person has to crawl through their own shitpile to get there.
QuoteClose. If I fail, expect me to run at it at least three more times before admitting defeat. It's a country thing.
Same here. I have a hard time admitting defeat. I was the little asshole in my martial arts classes who always insisted on sparring the black belts twice my height. Never ended well.
QuoteJames. You can't experience life through anyone else or some damn silly game. You have to get your face in the mud and feel it. You have to feel the exhileration of kicking somebodys ass to the curb.
Dammit, you have to experience life. In it's unpredictable fullness.
I do my best too. One of the reasons I'm looking forward to college. I want to change the world, but I realize that until I really understand the world, then I won't be able to do much good. So, my plan is to jump into the deep end of the pool and see if I can float. I've spent years living in a quiet rural town, and now I'm looking forward to whatever comes next.
QuoteWe are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Sounds about right. My wisdom will shape itself from whatever my experiences are. Still, much can be learned from listening to people toss out their two cents.
Damn. Its a school night. Should really get to bed. Thanks for the conversation guys. Really enjoyed it.
Hope to continue it tomorrow, in whatever form it takes.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 06:03:06 AM
Damn. Its a school night. Should really get to bed. Thanks for the conversation guys. Really enjoyed it.
Hope to continue it tomorrow, in whatever form it takes.
I'm out as well. Night.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:56:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:53:59 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
Co
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
When I was in high school starting to get together my first band, we wanted to write some songs about war. I mean, fuck, war is standard fare for a metal band. Problem was we were trying to recreate Metallica's "One." And one day we just realized it was silly. We didn't know shit about war. We were like, 16, 17, and Clinton was President. As far as we knew, America wasn't going to go to war anytime that we would be old enough to be soldiers. We decided not to write war songs. I had just turned 20 and my other guitarist was 19 when 9/11 happened. When the shock subsided, and neither of us volunteered to join up and kill the Islamic menace, we negated our old rule and started writing war songs. Not from a soldier's perspective, but from an angry, rational civilian's perspective. One was like, here's what happens to soldiers. The others were like, here's what opportunistic daddy issues presidents do to soldiers for stupid misguided reasons. Brendan wrote an excellent song after we invaded Iraq, called Red, White and Blue. When he and I split musically he wrote another great one called My Country Right or Wrong.
Those songs were wise songs, as opposed to the naive relative peace time drivel we were coming up with safely having a priveleged education at the Boston Public School system's second best.
Closer, you have to wallow in the shit to get wise.
True. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say they were wiser songs, but not wise songs.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 06:01:06 AM
QuoteWe are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Sounds about right. My wisdom will shape itself from whatever my experiences are. Still, much can be learned from listening to people toss out their two cents.
No doubt. There's a reason why when my grandfather speaks, I listen. For all of my Irish bravado, he refers to me as an American, especially when he is voicing disapproval. Sure if I took some speech therapy I could probably pass as a born in Ireland Irishman about my age with a strangely stronger grasp on American history, but when he speaks about something, even if it is out of date, I want to hear it. I don't want to hear what my cousins who are somewhat Americanized have to say. This is a man who saw Ireland at its worst in recent history. My grandmother's sister, born in the same town as my grandparents was born into the British Empire during WWI. She is older than the Republic. That's who I want to hear from. They have stories. They have something interesting and useful to tell me.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:56:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:53:59 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
Co
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
When I was in high school starting to get together my first band, we wanted to write some songs about war. I mean, fuck, war is standard fare for a metal band. Problem was we were trying to recreate Metallica's "One." And one day we just realized it was silly. We didn't know shit about war. We were like, 16, 17, and Clinton was President. As far as we knew, America wasn't going to go to war anytime that we would be old enough to be soldiers. We decided not to write war songs. I had just turned 20 and my other guitarist was 19 when 9/11 happened. When the shock subsided, and neither of us volunteered to join up and kill the Islamic menace, we negated our old rule and started writing war songs. Not from a soldier's perspective, but from an angry, rational civilian's perspective. One was like, here's what happens to soldiers. The others were like, here's what opportunistic daddy issues presidents do to soldiers for stupid misguided reasons. Brendan wrote an excellent song after we invaded Iraq, called Red, White and Blue. When he and I split musically he wrote another great one called My Country Right or Wrong.
Those songs were wise songs, as opposed to the naive relative peace time drivel we were coming up with safely having a priveleged education at the Boston Public School system's second best.
Closer, you have to wallow in the shit to get wise.
True. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say they were wiser songs, but not wise songs.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 06:01:06 AM
QuoteWe are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Sounds about right. My wisdom will shape itself from whatever my experiences are. Still, much can be learned from listening to people toss out their two cents.
No doubt. There's a reason why when my grandfather speaks, I listen. For all of my Irish bravado, he refers to me as an American, especially when he is voicing disapproval. Sure if I took some speech therapy I could probably pass as a born in Ireland Irishman about my age with a strangely stronger grasp on American history, but when he speaks about something, even if it is out of date, I want to hear it. I don't want to hear what my cousins who are somewhat Americanized have to say. This is a man who saw Ireland at its worst in recent history. My grandmother's sister, born in the same town as my grandparents was born into the British Empire during WWI. She is older than the Republic. That's who I want to hear from. They have stories. They have something interesting and useful to tell me.
Young people can have wise moments.
I go about life with the absolute conviction that I am probably half as wise as I think I am, when I think I'm half as wise as I need to be. And correct accordingly. It involves a lot of asking questions or shutting up.
Quote from: The Reverend Asshat on September 17, 2010, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:56:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on September 17, 2010, 05:53:59 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 17, 2010, 05:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Quote
It can only come with pain, bruises and blood.
Fair enough. Personally think that a person can be wise without going through some tough shit (thought that will do it), but I also realize that this is an subject where my youth counts against me. Namely, while I have an opinion, I realize that I probably don't know shit.
QuoteI think it's a neverending process regardless of your experiences.
Co
This I can wholeheartedly agree with, taking into account what I said above.
You can't write a country song without pain, blood and bruises. You can't live without them either.
When I was in high school starting to get together my first band, we wanted to write some songs about war. I mean, fuck, war is standard fare for a metal band. Problem was we were trying to recreate Metallica's "One." And one day we just realized it was silly. We didn't know shit about war. We were like, 16, 17, and Clinton was President. As far as we knew, America wasn't going to go to war anytime that we would be old enough to be soldiers. We decided not to write war songs. I had just turned 20 and my other guitarist was 19 when 9/11 happened. When the shock subsided, and neither of us volunteered to join up and kill the Islamic menace, we negated our old rule and started writing war songs. Not from a soldier's perspective, but from an angry, rational civilian's perspective. One was like, here's what happens to soldiers. The others were like, here's what opportunistic daddy issues presidents do to soldiers for stupid misguided reasons. Brendan wrote an excellent song after we invaded Iraq, called Red, White and Blue. When he and I split musically he wrote another great one called My Country Right or Wrong.
Those songs were wise songs, as opposed to the naive relative peace time drivel we were coming up with safely having a priveleged education at the Boston Public School system's second best.
Closer, you have to wallow in the shit to get wise.
True. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say they were wiser songs, but not wise songs.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on September 17, 2010, 06:01:06 AM
QuoteWe are both older than you, at different intervals.
Neither I or Charley can accurately pass on our wisdom. It's his wisdom and mine. We can toss it out there as our two cents, but ultimately, you have to find your own wisdom.
Did I get that right?
Sounds about right. My wisdom will shape itself from whatever my experiences are. Still, much can be learned from listening to people toss out their two cents.
No doubt. There's a reason why when my grandfather speaks, I listen. For all of my Irish bravado, he refers to me as an American, especially when he is voicing disapproval. Sure if I took some speech therapy I could probably pass as a born in Ireland Irishman about my age with a strangely stronger grasp on American history, but when he speaks about something, even if it is out of date, I want to hear it. I don't want to hear what my cousins who are somewhat Americanized have to say. This is a man who saw Ireland at its worst in recent history. My grandmother's sister, born in the same town as my grandparents was born into the British Empire during WWI. She is older than the Republic. That's who I want to hear from. They have stories. They have something interesting and useful to tell me.
Young people can have wise moments.
I don't doubt it, but people my age are generally more caught up in the routine than reflecting on stuff. At least in my experience. It's easy to get caught up into it, especially when it is fairly new to your life experience.
I'm pretty convinced reflection is rare in any age group or culture, unless a culture has specific tendencies toward it.
Thinking isn't a super power, it's a habit.