So my wife is on bed rest for awhile following her recent medical procedure. This means RWHN is in charge of the household and taking care of the kids, etc., etc. Normally I handle the morning routine anyway so that's not a big change. But usually Mrs WHN handles the night time routines of bath-time and tucking in my daughter and she usually cooks dinner.
So my Mother-in-law seems to be making this assumption that I couldn't possibly pick up the slack and keep the house in order, because you know, I'm the Dad not the Mom. She's talking about how she should keep the kids overnight every once in awhile and about how much she's going to need to be here to help out. Initially, I tried to be very discreetly polite and point out that I'm a big boy and, afterall, I am the Dad and I can handle this myself. She then says something about "I know you want to take on the world..."
What? Hell no. I'm not taking on the world, I'm taking care of my fucking family. It's what I'm supposed to do. I'm a pretty intelligent guy. I'm pretty capable. I think I can handle picking up some extra reponsibilities and chores. This isn't the fucking 40s anymore where Hubby comes home, retires to his den, and chomps on a pipe for a few hours while Mrs. Mom runs the show.
But I feel this speaks to a larger perception in American society. Dads simply don't get the same respect, when it comes to domestics, that the Moms get. Now, do not misunderstand. I have nothing but respect for Moms. My wife is an amazing Mom and if the situation was reversed and I was laid up, would be fucking aces taking care of the house.
But, I just don't think Dads get the same cred in this arena. You hear a lot in the news media about single Moms and how they persevere to keep households on track. You just don't see the same kind of coverage for the single dads. Surely ther are some asshole Dads out there but there are Millions of us who fucking show up and do it right.
Maybe it's shrapnel from the housewife stereotype—housework is the woman's domain, do never try to compete...
I can't say I've caught low-expectation flavored pie with my face yet, though it's only been about a year.
RWHN, you may be right about dads not getting their due, if they do actually lend a hand in the housey stuff. But from my experience, the majority either a) are cork sucking icehole deadbeat dad types or b) realize that maintaining a house is just as much work as a job and respect their partner for it.
Obviously your observation that millions of dads do it is probably accurate, given how many people there are in the world.
Fuck, don't listen to me. I'm probably babbling. Sorry that you MIL is acting that way.
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
See, I don't know that it really is a majority. Certainly, that's what you see and hear about on Oprah and Lifetime, or the Evening News. Stories about Good Dads don't make money or headlines. And what happen's in Sit-Coms when the wife/mother gets sick or goes out of town for a weekend. The house goes to shit, the kids turn into terrorists, and the Dad is sitting in the basement in his underwear, chomping on a cigar, and watching Baywatch reruns.
I'm sure that happens more often than it should, but I'd just like to see, culturally, a more even-handed set of expectations for the Dad. We're not all knuckle-dragging, Barney Fife buffoons who go into paralysis when presented with domestic situations.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your conclusion, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
ETA: damn, that was a poor word choice.
Standard and "accepted" gender roles yet again being shown to be largely useless in this thread. Another area where perception and reality are, if not at odds, then at least bear little resemblence to each other.
It's not so much a shrapnel question as it is one of those unresolved skirmishes in the so-called War of the Sexes.
Tell her she's right and that you need the in-law to clean the house. Proceed to kick back and relax.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on October 02, 2010, 05:46:51 PM
Standard and "accepted" gender roles yet again being shown to be largely useless in this thread. Another area where perception and reality are, if not at odds, then at least bear little resemblence to each other.
It's not so much a shrapnel question as it is one of those unresolved skirmishes in the so-called War of the Sexes.
I think that's pretty much it. It isn't super macho to be Mr. Mom. Not in popular culture anyway. I remember a particular episode of Scrubs where Turk is shitting bricks worried about his manhood because they had to buy a minivan. Really? Are we men supposed to be that hung up over a fucking vehicle? Is our manhood that fragile? My wife wanted a mini van I didn't fucking think twice. You take the seats out of those things you can haul a lot of shit when you're not hauling your kids and groceries.
But as the role of women has shifted, culture really hasn't seemed to adapt too well on the male end of things. As women have moved into the workforce, moved up in the workforce, bearing more responsibilities, logically it is necessary for males to adjust and take on more domestic roles. But pop culture has seemingly resisted that obviously necessary shift. There is still this dichotomy between being a good husband and father and being a man.
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your reasoning, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
My point was to point out that there's really no counterbalance to the stereotype of the at best inept father. RWHN was spot on in bringing the entertainment aspect into it. Dad always fucks up somehow, even if his heart is in the right place. The only IRL example I can think of that contradicts it is my paternal grandfather, and people heap praises on him due to the unfortunate circumstances he found himself in (my grandmother contracted polio when my dad was 2, and hasn't walked since 1955). But even then, he's an irritable curmudgeon. I don't know how good of a father any one else's dad is for that sort of thing, because you don't really hear much other than yeah, he's a good dad.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 05:55:41 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on October 02, 2010, 05:46:51 PM
Standard and "accepted" gender roles yet again being shown to be largely useless in this thread. Another area where perception and reality are, if not at odds, then at least bear little resemblence to each other.
It's not so much a shrapnel question as it is one of those unresolved skirmishes in the so-called War of the Sexes.
I think that's pretty much it. It isn't super macho to be Mr. Mom. Not in popular culture anyway. I remember a particular episode of Scrubs where Turk is shitting bricks worried about his manhood because they had to buy a minivan. Really? Are we men supposed to be that hung up over a fucking vehicle? Is our manhood that fragile? My wife wanted a mini van I didn't fucking think twice. You take the seats out of those things you can haul a lot of shit when you're not hauling your kids and groceries.
But as the role of women has shifted, culture really hasn't seemed to adapt too well on the male end of things. As women have moved into the workforce, moved up in the workforce, bearing more responsibilities, logically it is necessary for males to adjust and take on more domestic roles. But pop culture has seemingly resisted that obviously necessary shift. There is still this dichotomy between being a good husband and father and being a man.
Not only would I take a minivan over not having a car in the first place, but it would be very convenient for hauling amps and a drumset to a gig, which is pretty manly.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your reasoning, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
My point was to point out that there's really no counterbalance to the stereotype of the at best inept father. RWHN was spot on in bringing the entertainment aspect into it. Dad always fucks up somehow, even if his heart is in the right place. The only IRL example I can think of that contradicts it is my paternal grandfather, and people heap praises on him due to the unfortunate circumstances he found himself in (my grandmother contracted polio when my dad was 2, and hasn't walked since 1955). But even then, he's an irritable curmudgeon. I don't know how good of a father any one else's dad is for that sort of thing, because you don't really hear much other than yeah, he's a good dad.
Yeah, I agree with your point. I just don't think comparing that concept with the media is quite accurate.
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 06:02:08 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your reasoning, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
My point was to point out that there's really no counterbalance to the stereotype of the at best inept father. RWHN was spot on in bringing the entertainment aspect into it. Dad always fucks up somehow, even if his heart is in the right place. The only IRL example I can think of that contradicts it is my paternal grandfather, and people heap praises on him due to the unfortunate circumstances he found himself in (my grandmother contracted polio when my dad was 2, and hasn't walked since 1955). But even then, he's an irritable curmudgeon. I don't know how good of a father any one else's dad is for that sort of thing, because you don't really hear much other than yeah, he's a good dad.
Yeah, I agree with your point. I just don't think comparing that concept with the media is quite accurate.
Entertainment is also media. The house not burning down thing, while not an all inclusive example, sums up how the topic is treated.
Also, are you on the side of good again (avatar/screen name)?
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 06:06:16 PM
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 06:02:08 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your reasoning, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
My point was to point out that there's really no counterbalance to the stereotype of the at best inept father. RWHN was spot on in bringing the entertainment aspect into it. Dad always fucks up somehow, even if his heart is in the right place. The only IRL example I can think of that contradicts it is my paternal grandfather, and people heap praises on him due to the unfortunate circumstances he found himself in (my grandmother contracted polio when my dad was 2, and hasn't walked since 1955). But even then, he's an irritable curmudgeon. I don't know how good of a father any one else's dad is for that sort of thing, because you don't really hear much other than yeah, he's a good dad.
Yeah, I agree with your point. I just don't think comparing that concept with the media is quite accurate.
Entertainment is also media. The house not burning down thing, while not an all inclusive example, sums up how the topic is treated.
Also, are you on the side of good again (avatar/screen name)?
I suppose your are right in that regard.
Good? No, just back to Chaotic Neutral. Being evil is a lot more work than I'm willing to put into it.
Quote from: Grade 7 Pannus on October 02, 2010, 05:53:51 PM
Tell her she's right and that you need the in-law to clean the house. Proceed to kick back and relax.
THIS
seriously though, stay at home dads are awesome! You should respectfully tell her you have it all under control, before cuntpunting her from your house.
Quote from: BLARFINGARF on October 02, 2010, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: Grade 7 Pannus on October 02, 2010, 05:53:51 PM
Tell her she's right and that you need the in-law to clean the house. Proceed to kick back and relax.
THIS
seriously though, stay at home dads are awesome! You should respectfully tell her you have it all under control, before cuntpunting her from your house.
:lulz:
This.
Quote from: BLARFINGARF on October 02, 2010, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: Grade 7 Pannus on October 02, 2010, 05:53:51 PM
Tell her she's right and that you need the in-law to clean the house. Proceed to kick back and relax.
THIS
seriously though, stay at home dads are awesome! You should respectfully tell her you have it all under control, before cuntpunting her from your house.
You could probably put it in a way that's like, "I think I'm ok for now, but I'll let you know the moment I need a hand with something."
RWHN, as the house bitch of the Brown household, I applaud you. Sounds like the MIL is trying to butt in to make herself feel important. Throw her a bone now and again so she feels she is 'helping', for the long term relationship.
But, that said, good for you. Respect + 10
As diplomatically possible, I told her that it's my family and I'll take care of it. Obviously, when the work week starts up again, she may need to come over to hang out with my wife so she isn't lonely, and she'll need to be here when the school bus drops my daughter off. But when the work day is done, I'll have it sufficiently covered.
Quote from: Pho on October 02, 2010, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 05:34:36 PM
Might be kinda like a what's on the news today sort of thing to tie the whole shrapnel/deadbeat perceptions together.
What makes more of a lasting impression, an alcoholic father who sits there, watches football and yells at his kids all the time, or someone picking up the slack for his sick wife?
i.e.- How many houses didn't burn down today? Whoops, never really took notice because that information isn't interesting.
I agree with your conclusion, but I don't think your example is really an apt comparison. Houses burning or not burning is not quite the same as whether or not fathers help with housework. I don't think the fatherly stereotypes have anything to do with "interest".
And we rarely ever hear about how many houses didn't burn, because it's the normal state of affairs. Similarly, we don't hear how many dads didn't pay child support this month in the mainstream media. Unless there is a good story to it, we don't hear about it. The media is a business. If it won't sell, it goes unreported.
ETA: damn, that was a poor word choice.
Prickish pedantry is pedantric.
I think you're overthinking. If you were bedridden and Mrs RWHN had to work full-time AND take care of the house and kids AND take care of you, her mom would almost certainly also recognize that she was trying to do the work of two people, and offer to help.
It's the whole "work of two people" thing she's responding to, IMO, not the fact that you have a dongle instead of a port.
Also, seriously. Single dads who actually take their responsibility and raise their kids are usually lauded as FUCKING HEROES.
Also, speaking as a single mom, :golfclap:
I was also about to note something similar- perhaps your mother in law is just concerned for the overall happiness of her grandkiddys (I know how grand parents are, often worse than parents) and her daughter, without any thought really of the broader implications of her offer of help.
Your response was exactly correct though. It said "I can and will do this" without any hint of "Ofuk, I am man and know not how household is formed. BUT I MUST PREVAIL!"
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
I think you're overthinking. If you were bedridden and Mrs RWHN had to work full-time AND take care of the house and kids AND take care of you, her mom would almost certainly also recognize that she was trying to do the work of two people, and offer to help.
It's the whole "work of two people" thing she's responding to, IMO, not the fact that you have a dongle instead of a port.
Also, seriously. Single dads who actually take their responsibility and raise their kids are usually lauded as FUCKING HEROES.
Well, when I was flat on my back a week ago with a bad cold she wasn't freaking out saying she "needed" to be here and that the kids should stay with her overnight so my wife could cope. It was plainly obvious she didn't think I could hack taking care of my wife and my two kids by myself. That's why she "needed" to be here. Because apparently me taking care of my family is "taking on the world" but it doesn't rise to that same level when it's my wife.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on October 02, 2010, 07:10:09 PM
I was also about to note something similar- perhaps your mother in law is just concerned for the overall happiness of her grandkiddys (I know how grand parents are, often worse than parents) and her daughter, without any thought really of the broader implications of her offer of help.
Your response was exactly correct though. It said "I can and will do this" without any hint of "Ofuk, I am man and know not how household is formed. BUT I MUST PREVAIL!"
I would agree if she ceased to offer said help after my first declaration to her that I was perfectly capable of taking care of my family. But the offers kept coming. Actually it was less "offering" and more insisting.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on October 02, 2010, 07:10:09 PM
I was also about to note something similar- perhaps your mother in law is just concerned for the overall happiness of her grandkiddys (I know how grand parents are, often worse than parents) and her daughter, without any thought really of the broader implications of her offer of help.
Your response was exactly correct though. It said "I can and will do this" without any hint of "Ofuk, I am man and know not how household is formed. BUT I MUST PREVAIL!"
I would agree if she ceased to offer said help after my first declaration to her that I was perfectly capable of taking care of my family. But the offers kept coming. Actually it was less "offering" and more insisting.
So she's pushy.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 07:47:29 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
I think you're overthinking. If you were bedridden and Mrs RWHN had to work full-time AND take care of the house and kids AND take care of you, her mom would almost certainly also recognize that she was trying to do the work of two people, and offer to help.
It's the whole "work of two people" thing she's responding to, IMO, not the fact that you have a dongle instead of a port.
Also, seriously. Single dads who actually take their responsibility and raise their kids are usually lauded as FUCKING HEROES.
Well, when I was flat on my back a week ago with a bad cold she wasn't freaking out saying she "needed" to be here and that the kids should stay with her overnight so my wife could cope. It was plainly obvious she didn't think I could hack taking care of my wife and my two kids by myself. That's why she "needed" to be here. Because apparently me taking care of my family is "taking on the world" but it doesn't rise to that same level when it's my wife.
Well, in that case, clearly America doesn't appreciate fathers.
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
My thought on it all is that, instead of being resentful that society has a low expectation of fathers, perhaps it would be more effective to direct your ire at the millions of fathers who have for millennia refused to wipe a snotty nose or change a diaper, thus leading to those reduced expectations.
In the meantime, what you can do to change it is keep up the perfectly adequate work, and encourage other dads to do so as well.
Also, seriously, do I even have to point out that "laid up with a bad cold" doesn't even come vaguely close to comparing to being bedridden from surgery??? I mean, wow, come ON. Why would anyone come rushing to your wife's aid because her husband had a cold?
Seriously, this is why men have a reputation for being such babies.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
I didn't read into it like that at all. I doubt he's looking for a pat on the back.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
I didn't read into it like that at all. I doubt he's looking for a pat on the back.
He seems to want more social recognition for doing what he's supposed to be doing. That would be nice, but the fault doesn't lie with the people with low expectations, it lies with the people who set those low expectations. It's going to take a long time for that to change, and one thing he seems to not be getting is that in most of the country, most dads still don't do much housework or childrearing. The mass consumers are setting those low expectations. So, good for him for living up to his responsibility... but why does he blame the people with the low expectations instead of the people who caused them to be lowered? It comes across as kind of waaah waaah babypants. Especially the bit where he diverts into how single mothers get all the credit. I mean, fuck that, dude. Single mothers are FINALLY not being reviled as the scum of the earth, is what's happening. FINALLY. And single dads, as they always have been, are treated like fucking mythical unicorn fairy heroes.
Can I interest you in some salve for that chip on your shoulder?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:46:37 PM
Can I interest you in some salve for that chip on your shoulder?
You're the one who's pissed off because your mother-in-law offered to help.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:38:25 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 02, 2010, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
I didn't read into it like that at all. I doubt he's looking for a pat on the back.
He seems to want more social recognition for doing what he's supposed to be doing. That would be nice, but the fault doesn't lie with the people with low expectations, it lies with the people who set those low expectations. It's going to take a long time for that to change, and one thing he seems to not be getting is that in most of the country, most dads still don't do much housework or childrearing. The mass consumers are setting those low expectations. So, good for him for living up to his responsibility... but why does he blame the people with the low expectations instead of the people who caused them to be lowered? It comes across as kind of waaah waaah babypants. Especially the bit where he diverts into how single mothers get all the credit. I mean, fuck that, dude. Single mothers are FINALLY not being reviled as the scum of the earth, is what's happening. FINALLY. And single dads, as they always have been, are treated like fucking mythical unicorn fairy heroes.
I think the difference is that his mother in law also has low expectations specifically off him, without any reason, and should know better. This is symptomatic of a larger problem in perception. There's nothing "waaah waaah babypants" about it.
Again he's not looking for a pat on the back or social recognition. He's rightfully expecting that he should be seen as handling this situation capably. He's looking to not have his mother in law butt in where she's not needed based on a stereotype.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:29:38 PM
Also, seriously, do I even have to point out that "laid up with a bad cold" doesn't even come vaguely close to comparing to being bedridden from surgery??? I mean, wow, come ON. Why would anyone come rushing to your wife's aid because her husband had a cold?
Seriously, this is why men have a reputation for being such babies.
You're missing the fucking point. I'm not saying anyone should come rushing to my wife's aid when I have a cold. She is perfectly capable, obviously, which I clearly pointed out in earlier posts. The point is that my mother-in-law obviously believes that I inherently have a harder road to travel when my wife is out of comission. My observation is that fathers, in my experience, are seen to have a handicap when it comes to taking the helm when it comes to managing the household.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 10:04:31 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:29:38 PM
Also, seriously, do I even have to point out that "laid up with a bad cold" doesn't even come vaguely close to comparing to being bedridden from surgery??? I mean, wow, come ON. Why would anyone come rushing to your wife's aid because her husband had a cold?
Seriously, this is why men have a reputation for being such babies.
You're missing the fucking point. I'm not saying anyone should come rushing to my wife's aid when I have a cold. She is perfectly capable, obviously, which I clearly pointed out in earlier posts. The point is that my mother-in-law obviously believes that I inherently have a harder road to travel when my wife is out of comission. My observation is that fathers, in my experience, are seen to have a handicap when it comes to taking the helm when it comes to managing the household.
No, I think I see your point, and my point is that the reason fathers are typically viewed as having a handicap is because
most of them act like they do. Maybe I'm just being a dick, in which case I apologize, but in my opinion you are attacking the problem at the wrong end. Instead of demanding that people have higher expectations of fathers, you might be able to raise those expectations by demanding that fathers do a better job of upholding their domestic responsibilities.
Your righteous indignation over people's low expectations is just rubbing me the wrong way, because it ignores the completely valid reasons for those low expectations.
Also, you are still using your cold as the basis for your assumption that she would not offer to help your wife were the situation reversed. You might be right, but there is no comparing the two situations. "I have a bad cold" doesn't touch "I had surgery" for triggering people's nurture buttons. Has she ever offered to come help you out when your wife had a cold?
For that matter, has your wife ever been bedridden with a cold?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 10:17:16 PM
No, I think I see your point, and my point is that the reason fathers are typically viewed as having a handicap is because most of them act like they do. Maybe I'm just being a dick, in which case I apologize, but in my opinion you are attacking the problem at the wrong end. Instead of demanding that people have higher expectations of fathers, you might be able to raise those expectations by demanding that fathers do a better job of upholding their domestic responsibilities.
Your righteous indignation over people's low expectations is just rubbing me the wrong way, because it ignores the completely valid reasons for those low expectations.
Well, you are being a dick, but I don't give a fuck because the point of this thread wasn't to get a pat on the back or kudos. I take care of my family because I love my family, not because I'm looking for a fucking medal. The point of this thread was to simply point out that while there are some asshat, fuck up fathers, there are plenty like me who do a good job and who are perfectly capable. We're not all Everybody Loves Raymond or According to Jim like fathers. We aren't all fathers who need the wife to hold our hands while we navigate domesticania.
Obviously those who have deficits should not be ignored and those problems addressed. But it is unfair, and just as importantly, inaccurate, to laminate their failures upon the rest of us.
You are right. It is a terrible injustice, and I apologize for my scorn.
RWHN
i am so totally there
NIGEL
s.t.f.u.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on October 02, 2010, 07:10:09 PM
I was also about to note something similar- perhaps your mother in law is just concerned for the overall happiness of her grandkiddys (I know how grand parents are, often worse than parents) and her daughter, without any thought really of the broader implications of her offer of help.
Your response was exactly correct though. It said "I can and will do this" without any hint of "Ofuk, I am man and know not how household is formed. BUT I MUST PREVAIL!"
I would agree if she ceased to offer said help after my first declaration to her that I was perfectly capable of taking care of my family. But the offers kept coming. Actually it was less "offering" and more insisting.
Yeah. I was thinking that even though it would be clear to most everyone else that you were capable after the first offer was politely refused, that she as a grandmother and mother was still coming from that place as she made subsequent offers.
Everyone wants to feel useful, and I'm thinking she doesn't entirely understand that you want and need to do this on your own.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
wow, harsh
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 02, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on October 02, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Nevermind that my commentary on the status and popular perceptions of Dads in America was supported by more than this personal situation.
It struck me as mostly being wankery, actually. "Look at me, I'm actually capable of doing my job! Why isn't everyone patting me on the back for not being an incompetent deadbeat?"
Odd, I didn't get that at all.
What I got was STFU and let me do my job.
8 pages.
Calling it now.
:popcorn:
ANYWAY,
Killin' It with Paul Crik - SINGLE PARENTHOOD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWGLWMrN1Yc)
FUCKING PARENTHOOD, HOW DOES IT WORK?
On 4 hours of sleep and caffeine.