Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Suu on October 04, 2010, 02:48:21 AM

Title: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Suu on October 04, 2010, 02:48:21 AM
I mean, take Romeo and Juliet for example...

We all know how it ends, in fact, they TELL you how it will end in the prologue, but no matter what, you always get to that part...that part when you hope that the letter gets to Romeo in time, Juliet will wake up, the families will reconcile and everyone will live happily ever after. You know of course, it doesn't happen that way, you know in the end, suicide is the answer as you read the play or watch Claire Danes blow her brains all over Leonardo diCaprio.

Why do we allow ourselves to hope for the conclusion that simply will not be? Why watch Hamlet's mother die when she drinks from the poisoned cup destined for her son who eventually takes his own life? We become entertained at the tales of other's lives falling apart.

What about Oedipus or Orpheus? Even thousands of years ago, the ancients admired and craved the tragedy of theatre. You know the endings, you know you'll be crying and left frightening unfulfilled, but...why? What lessons do we allow these tales to teach us? To not fall in love? To not feign ignorance or insanity? I don't know.

Peculiar.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Don Coyote on October 04, 2010, 02:49:44 AM
Quote from: Doktor Princess on October 04, 2010, 02:48:21 AM
I mean, take Romeo and Juliet for example...

We all know how it ends, in fact, they TELL you how it will end in the prologue, but no matter what, you always get to that part...that part when you hope that the letter gets to Romeo in time, Juliet will wake up, the families will reconcile and everyone will live happily ever after. You know of course, it doesn't happen that way, you know in the end, suicide is the answer as you read the play or watch Claire Danes blow her brains all over Leonardo diCaprio.

Why do we allow ourselves to hope for the conclusion that simply will not be? Why watch Hamlet's mother die when she drinks from the poisoned cup destined for her son who eventually takes his own life? We become entertained at the tales of other's lives falling apart.

What about Oedipus or Orpheus? Even thousands of years ago, the ancients admired and craved the tragedy of theatre. You know the endings, you know you'll be crying and left frightening unfulfilled, but...why? What lessons do we allow these tales to teach us? To not fall in love? To not feign ignorance or insanity? I don't know.

Peculiar.

Maybe it's "Shit can always get worse"
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Wizard on October 04, 2010, 02:50:30 AM
They teach us that you don't always get a happy ending. Sometimes things end badly and no amount of hoping will change that.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2010, 02:57:50 AM

In psychology we study them to dissect whats tragic about them, and how those tragic parts apply thru the different eras to humans.

Oedipus, Hamlet, Medeah... the examples are broad.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2010, 02:58:51 AM

Also that "we're puppets of destiny" i guess
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Nast on October 04, 2010, 03:13:36 AM
Even though in the end nothing is resolved, going through those emotions is supposed to be cathartic. Or so I learned in English class.

Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Don Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:15:43 AM
Maybe it is a form of reinforcing the culturally acceptable ways to deal with intense emotions.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Nast on October 04, 2010, 03:16:23 AM
Quote from: Sir Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:15:43 AM
Maybe it is a form of reinforcing the culturally acceptable ways to deal with intense emotions.

Like stabbing someone's dad through a curtain?
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Don Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:17:53 AM
Quote from: Nast on October 04, 2010, 03:16:23 AM
Quote from: Sir Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:15:43 AM
Maybe it is a form of reinforcing the culturally acceptable ways to deal with intense emotions.

Like stabbing someone's dad through a curtain?
Which, along with other things, caused the downfall of a kingdom and suicides all around.

So the message might be, "Don't skulk around stabbing people through curtains or you will destroy your family and kill yourself."
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Suu on October 04, 2010, 03:21:47 AM
Quote from: Nast on October 04, 2010, 03:16:23 AM
Quote from: Sir Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:15:43 AM
Maybe it is a form of reinforcing the culturally acceptable ways to deal with intense emotions.

Like stabbing someone's dad through a curtain?

Like your girlfriend's...because she'll go batshit and drown herself.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2010, 03:25:44 AM

Oedipus: NEVER EVER help ANYONE or you will stab your eyes out with a dull knife.

OR

never be born. Because you are the cause of the kingdom's plagues.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Don Coyote on October 04, 2010, 03:27:01 AM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on October 04, 2010, 03:25:44 AM

Oedipus: NEVER EVER help ANYONE or you will stab your eyes out with a dull knife.

OR

never be born. Because you are the cause of the kingdom's plagues.
If you grew up an orphan double check that you aren't sleeping with your long lost mother/sister.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Phox on October 04, 2010, 03:30:17 AM
When the father of your children tries to marry another woman, murder your kids.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2010, 03:31:25 AM
Quote from: Phox on October 04, 2010, 03:30:17 AM
When the father of your children tries to marry another woman, murder your kids.

Along with your father-in-law and yourself. =P
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: The Johnny on October 04, 2010, 03:32:09 AM

But really, tragedies arent designed to give a "moral of the story" moment.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Phox on October 04, 2010, 03:37:15 AM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on October 04, 2010, 03:31:25 AM
Quote from: Phox on October 04, 2010, 03:30:17 AM
When the father of your children tries to marry another woman, murder your kids.

Along with your father-in-law and yourself. =P

What, do I look stupid or something? I'm not going to fall for THAT trap. I LEARNED from Medea's story.  :lulz:
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Jasper on October 04, 2010, 08:25:55 AM
I believe the original intent was catharsis.  

ETA:  It is cathartic to witness the downfall of someone greater than us.  The reversal of fortunes is the backbone of most tragedies.

The whole thing is, it's not a tragedy if some nobody dies of hysteria.  It's just sad.  It's a tragedy when a great person has several terrible misunderstandings and offs themselves out of grief.  It helps to illustrate the basic human frailty in even great people who seem way beyond our reach.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: LMNO on October 04, 2010, 03:09:45 PM
Oedipus: If you discover that you're boning your mom after all your attempts to avoid doing so, you may as well just go with it because, hey, it's Destiny.
Title: Re: Theatrical Tragedy is Peculiar, Jim...
Post by: Nast on October 04, 2010, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on October 04, 2010, 03:09:45 PM
Oedipus: If you discover that you're boning your mom after all your attempts to avoid doing so, you may as well just go with it because, hey, it's Destiny.

I recall a situation like that in Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami.