An official with the Vatican criticized the decision to award the Nobel prize for medicine to British doctor Robert G. Edwards for his work on in vitro fertilization, Italy's official news agency ANSA reported Tuesday.
Ignazio Carrasco de Paula, president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, said giving the award to Edwards was "completely inappropriate," according to the news agency.
He said Edwards' work had created a market for human eggs and created problems of embryos being frozen, the news agency said.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/05/sweden.nobel.medicine/index.html?hpt=T2
How dare this man act as a god? Science is the hand maiden of the devil, I guess.
Catholics failing? I don't see how this is news.
Quote from: Remington on October 05, 2010, 04:11:55 PM
Catholics failing? I don't see how this is news.
:mittens:
Quote from: Remington on October 05, 2010, 04:11:55 PM
Catholics failing? I don't see how this is news.
It's not news, but they are always on the cutting edge of finding innovative ways to fail. Take, for instance, Bill Donohue (http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/william_donohue), president of the conservative Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. Everything that this man says is pure bat guano. His entire organization consists of him, 3 secretaries and a very very busy fax machine. Anytime someone comes even close to criticizing the Catholic Church or offends his very delicate sensibilities he sends out a mad press release to every news gathering organziation in America. And, somehow, there are people who actually take him seriously. He has claimed that the reason that there have been so many sexual scandals in the Catholic Church is because a) "liberals" let gays into the church (http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/william_donohue) and b) that 14 year old were somehow capable of seducing (http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=34&idsub=127&id=40843&t=Time+to+ask+tough+questions+about+paedophilia+claims) poor, innocent priests. This man is a pure gold main of FAIL.
ALSO: Gay teenagers who commit suicide probably deserved it: http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/950375623.html
The thing that gets me is the subject matter.
Editorial room:
"Hey, we've got a great story about Science and Biology coming up."
"Awesome. I'll call the Vatican in the afternoon to see what they think about it."
:? :? :?
Why should anyone give a fuck what the Vatican thinks about advances in Biology and Science? That's like asking psychiatrists for their professional opinion on a fucking space mission or something.
The Vatican must be destroyed.
Nah. Just get rid of Pope Palpatine. And possibly his successor, if the man also decides to undo John Paul II's work and Vatican II. I mean, the current pope brought back lace (ffs, the stuff at the church I went to looked like the stuff on my grandmother's curtain rods), Latin masses, and Super Priest outfits for Vespers masses. That in itself is reason enough.
I want most of it destroyed. Mostly their money and treasure, though. I would be fine with just breaking their backs politically.
Why? The politics I understand, but the rest of it?
They've done enough to warrant it.
That would be the political thing to me (because nothing would infuriate them like being cut out of everything more than they already are), but ok. That works, I suppose.
Also, I have a weakness. When people insist on believing in something demonstrably false that harms others and spread it around as widely as possible, I have a slightly "nuke from orbit" stance.
I ABSOLUTELY
do not get why the 'vatican' has not been sieged entirely for its lockdown on materials belonging to the people of the world. i mean, i do get it, but the everything would be better off with all that as public access.
SHUT 'EM DOWN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB4D-GbQ9A4
I'm with Sigmatic on this. If you want to learn about the kind of society the Vatican approves of, just look at the Papal States. Pretty much nothing has changed internally since then, at least amongst the most influential groups.
It was the "taking all their stuff" thing that I didn't get. They do do some good work, after all (most of which seems to be done by nuns), and they need money for that. Also, where would you like to stick the paintings and treasures instead?
I'm saying this now: I grew up with John Paul II at the helm of the church, whom I liked, and once upon a time I was fairly devout, so I have some nostalgia for parts of it. The rest of it? No. It wasn't why I left, but it sure as hell helped me shut that door behind me.
ETA: I don't think I'm expressing my loathing for the society that they would like well enough, or how they've protected those who ought to be defrocked immediately and left to the criminal courts. Because I do loathe that and their various political games. I just miss the good parts of it in abstract sense.
Try decontextualizing it, for perspective. Say some old old organization has commtted the same crimes of the catholic church, sexually repressed countless millions, et cetera et cetera, but they also have a small division that runs soup kitchens and helps the needy.
Even if the participants in the humantarian aid are well meaning and good, it still looks like a feeble attempt at PR from the organization's point of view. It wouldn't exist if the rest of it didn't need to improve it's image.
I understand where you're coming from. I agree that those are crimes and ought to be dealt with. I just don't think that taking all their stuff away is the way to do it. I'd like to see the church humbled and on its knees, though. Clearly, the revelation of decades of hiding pedophiles and abuse of children in general by clergy hasn't done it, nor has their past of incredible cruelty and curder, so I'm not sure how to do that. Ideally, it would redirect their energy into charity work.
Anyway.
"When men are free then mankind will be free..."
Hiumans will kick the Catholic Church to the Curb when they're ready to and nothing before that will help. Unless, of course, you raise an army and kill several thousand people, that generally gets people to change their religion pretty quickly.
My reasoning is that they're rich, and it's the only concrete, ethically destroyable source of power they have. You can't really destroy the faith in them, unless you're willing to go the complete monster route, so financial warfare is the next best thing.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 06, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
My reasoning is that they're rich, and it's the only concrete, ethically destroyable source of power they have. You can't really destroy the faith in them, unless you're willing to go the complete monster route, so financial warfare is the next best thing.
They're pretty fucking rich... I mean like nation level rich (more rich than many nations)... and they have a helluva lot of loyal followers that will give them more money if you take what they have... and they have lots of loyal and smart bankers and politicians.
Aim for the minds of the humans, eventually they'll take care of the rest. Or start a war...
If there was some way to make the Vatican unprofitable, that would be ideal.
Make everyone realize it's a business. Just like wal mart, or the US.
Everything's a fucking business.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 06, 2010, 10:31:51 PM
If there was some way to make the Vatican unprofitable, that would be ideal.
Make everyone realize it's a business. Just like wal mart, or the US.
Everything's a fucking business.
Its like a giant mega strip club designed to take your money and make you feel good... except the chances of getting laid in a Catholic church is higher... esp if you're an underage boy.
No, they have political power as well, though I suppose you're right on money being easier. And I really would like to see them stop attempting to destroy companies that produce contraception via the stock market.
Also, pointing them out as a business won't stop them in the least.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 06, 2010, 10:29:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 06, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
My reasoning is that they're rich, and it's the only concrete, ethically destroyable source of power they have. You can't really destroy the faith in them, unless you're willing to go the complete monster route, so financial warfare is the next best thing.
They're pretty fucking rich... I mean like nation level rich (more rich than many nations)... and they have a helluva lot of loyal followers that will give them more money if you take what they have... and they have lots of loyal and smart bankers and politicians.
Aim for the minds of the humans, eventually they'll take care of the rest. Or start a war...
This.
Almost two billion people. It claims one billion. And perhaps the church will adapt to it. I doubt it, though, because it likes to think of itself as timeless and not a crusty old thing.
If the church suddenly had no private funds, I doubt it's constituents would bounce it back much.
Strike the sheperd, etc.
A good chuck of its money already comes from followers. I'm having trouble pinning down how much, though. An ounce from the many and all that, you know, and again, one billion followers.
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 06, 2010, 11:05:27 PM
A good chuck of its money already comes from followers. I'm having trouble pinning down how much, though. An ounce from the many and all that, you know, and again, one billion followers.
1 billion people that give 10% of everything they earn... and some give more. Even if they only earn $10 a week, that a billion dollars a week income for the Church.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 06, 2010, 10:22:14 PM
"When men are free then mankind will be free..."
Hiumans will kick the Catholic Church to the Curb when they're ready to and nothing before that will help. Unless, of course, you raise an army and kill several thousand people, that generally gets people to change their religion pretty quickly.
Rule does not apply to Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, Orthodox Christians....
Matter of fact, the more people you kill the stronger the religion tends to get.
ETA: What Twid said.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 06, 2010, 11:45:00 PM
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 06, 2010, 11:05:27 PM
A good chuck of its money already comes from followers. I'm having trouble pinning down how much, though. An ounce from the many and all that, you know, and again, one billion followers.
1 billion people that give 10% of everything they earn... and some give more. Even if they only earn $10 a week, that a billion dollars a week income for the Church.
Doesn't work that way anymore. 1) "give what you can" is emphasized heavily, because it means more than someone who lavishes the church with gifts and money, but could give more (isn't that a great idea?) and 2) it isn't compulsory; my mother doesn't give anything approaching ten percent to the church, and never has. This applies to pretty much every Catholic, I think, except for hardcore old ones.
Yeah, like I said, killing them off isn't viable, ethical, or likely to work.
And most monotheisms do tend to flourish under persecution. They like it.
Best way is to cripple their ability to influence politics, and satirize them.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 07, 2010, 12:30:51 AM
Yeah, like I said, killing them off isn't viable, ethical, or likely to work.
And most monotheisms do tend to flourish under persecution. They like it.
Best way is to cripple their ability to influence politics, and satirize them.
Yeah, having prophecies stating that martyrs are God's favorites have a way of doing that....
It feels good to "fight the power". They don't get to do that much, anymore.
All Christians live with this idea that the rest of the world is persecuting them, and satirizing them isn't going to win you anyone or do much of anything to them anyway.
I guess. Arguably, I have no choice in the matter.
Honestly the best thing to do is to befriend them. If they stop being your friend because you're an infidel, they're an insensitive jerk. If he remains your friend but worries about your soul, then his god is an insensitive jerk.
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 06, 2010, 10:00:48 PM
It was the "taking all their stuff" thing that I didn't get. They do do some good work, after all (most of which seems to be done by nuns), and they need money for that. Also, where would you like to stick the paintings and treasures instead?
I'm saying this now: I grew up with John Paul II at the helm of the church, whom I liked, and once upon a time I was fairly devout, so I have some nostalgia for parts of it. The rest of it? No. It wasn't why I left, but it sure as hell helped me shut that door behind me.
ETA: I don't think I'm expressing my loathing for the society that they would like well enough, or how they've protected those who ought to be defrocked immediately and left to the criminal courts. Because I do loathe that and their various political games. I just miss the good parts of it in abstract sense.
Besides, who else can afford to store those manuscripts with such protection from aging?