Quote from: WikipediaCool (aesthetic)
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Uncool" redirects here.
Quote from: Devo: Through Being CoolGoing to bang some heads. Going to beat some butts.
Quote from: Less Wrong...meta-contrarians are at risk of becoming too meta-contrary.
We became smart because of a social cognition arms race. Part of the competition is who/what can be the coolest.
HIPSTERS are the result of this.
I think you should all feel very ashamed.
That is all.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 07, 2010, 01:53:03 AM
Quote from: WikipediaCool (aesthetic)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Uncool" redirects here.
Quote from: Devo: Through Being CoolGoing to bang some heads. Going to beat some butts.
Quote from: Less Wrong...meta-contrarians are at risk of becoming too meta-contrary.
We became smart because of a social cognition arms race. Part of the competition is who/what can be the coolest.
HIPSTERS are the result of this.
I think you should all feel very ashamed.
That is all.
So Hipsters are the end result of the genetic arms race?
THAT MEANS THEY ARE WMDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You just have to wait them out. They'll run out of stuff to latch onto at some point.
Personally I think we should be thinking of ways that hipsters can be utilized.
That's a lot of power to give a passing fad.
Let's look at this. I'm not a hipster nor a fan, but.....
They are cleaner than the grunge fad.
Their clothes fit better than the gangbanger pants at the knees fad.
They are less conservative than the preppy button down collar and khaki gap pants fad.
Do we even want to go to the 80's? I mean seriously....
They're here for this fashion era and will move on to something equally annoying but called by another name in a year or so.
In a word....
Yuppies!
yeah I really don't get the hangups here about
(a) why this is a real group of people
(b) why this particular group if people is in any way special enough to care about
I mean whenever you have a pile of something, by very nature of the structure of the pile, somebody's gonna be on top. Real visible. Apparently leading the zeitgeist.
Are these mythical "hipsters" substantially any different than whatever was going on in Brooklyn (and other metropolitan cultural centers) before them? I don't think so.
there's always gonna be cool kids somewhere drinking a particular brand of beer, wearing a particular style of glasses, smoking a particular brand of cigarettes, showcasing an attitude which is a reaction to (and iteration of) previous cultural attitudes.
AHGHGH I HATE THOSE GUYS :argh!:
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
yeah I really don't get the hangups here about
(a) why this is a real group of people
(b) why this particular group if people is in any way special enough to care about
I mean whenever you have a pile of something, by very nature of the structure of the pile, somebody's gonna be on top. Real visible. Apparently leading the zeitgeist.
Are these mythical "hipsters" substantially any different than whatever was going on in Brooklyn (and other metropolitan cultural centers) before them? I don't think so.
there's always gonna be cool kids somewhere drinking a particular brand of beer, wearing a particular style of glasses, smoking a particular brand of cigarettes, showcasing an attitude which is a reaction to (and iteration of) previous cultural attitudes.
AHGHGH I HATE THOSE GUYS :argh!:
Well, that settles it. I'm off to buy a ukelele.
I think that the problem is that they're the uncool kids who are unaware that they are the uncool kids and try to be uncool to be ironic and cool but it just makes them more uncool.
ok that just made my head burst. But I've found a use for them.
I shall start my reality safari with them.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
yeah I really don't get the hangups here about
(a) why this is a real group of people
(b) why this particular group if people is in any way special enough to care about
I mean whenever you have a pile of something, by very nature of the structure of the pile, somebody's gonna be on top. Real visible. Apparently leading the zeitgeist.
Are these mythical "hipsters" substantially any different than whatever was going on in Brooklyn (and other metropolitan cultural centers) before them? I don't think so.
there's always gonna be cool kids somewhere drinking a particular brand of beer, wearing a particular style of glasses, smoking a particular brand of cigarettes, showcasing an attitude which is a reaction to (and iteration of) previous cultural attitudes.
AHGHGH I HATE THOSE GUYS :argh!:
Well, that settles it. I'm off to buy a ukelele.
If you will sing "Tiny Bubbles" I will send you a slave!! Or a kid whichever is cheapest to ship.... :lulz:
Quote from: Kiaransalee on October 07, 2010, 03:03:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
yeah I really don't get the hangups here about
(a) why this is a real group of people
(b) why this particular group if people is in any way special enough to care about
I mean whenever you have a pile of something, by very nature of the structure of the pile, somebody's gonna be on top. Real visible. Apparently leading the zeitgeist.
Are these mythical "hipsters" substantially any different than whatever was going on in Brooklyn (and other metropolitan cultural centers) before them? I don't think so.
there's always gonna be cool kids somewhere drinking a particular brand of beer, wearing a particular style of glasses, smoking a particular brand of cigarettes, showcasing an attitude which is a reaction to (and iteration of) previous cultural attitudes.
AHGHGH I HATE THOSE GUYS :argh!:
Well, that settles it. I'm off to buy a ukelele.
If you will sing "Tiny Bubbles" I will send you a slave!! Or a kid whichever is cheapest to ship.... :lulz:
I request Tiptoe Through The Tulips! :lulz:
Neither of those would be ironic enough.
I'm going to do Hank Williams Sr on it.
Dok,
Yeah, went there.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
Neither of those would be ironic enough.
I'm going to do Hank Williams Sr on it.
Dok,
Yeah, went there.
:lulz:
FTW
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
Neither of those would be ironic enough.
I'm going to do Hank Williams Sr on it.
Dok,
Yeah, went there.
:lulz:
FTW
I will be very disappointed if I'm not torn to bloody gobbets by 70 year olds.
Flight of the Bumblebee.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:10:53 PM
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
Neither of those would be ironic enough.
I'm going to do Hank Williams Sr on it.
Dok,
Yeah, went there.
:lulz:
FTW
I will be very disappointed if I'm not torn to bloody gobbets by 70 year olds.
I HATE YOU FOR MAKING ME FIND THIS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqU84DZIPLA
Tear in my Beer, ON A UKE!
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:15:43 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:10:53 PM
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
Neither of those would be ironic enough.
I'm going to do Hank Williams Sr on it.
Dok,
Yeah, went there.
:lulz:
FTW
I will be very disappointed if I'm not torn to bloody gobbets by 70 year olds.
I HATE YOU FOR MAKING ME FIND THIS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqU84DZIPLA
Tear in my Beer, ON A UKE!
:crankey::crankey::crankey::crankey::crankey::crankey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLwxomHEcE4&feature=related
Hey Good Lookin'
I have to quit now, my ears are bleeding.
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:17:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLwxomHEcE4&feature=related
Hey Good Lookin'
I have to quit now, my ears are bleeding.
I want to stab 40 random people now.
I was JOKING. A BAD joke. And someone's already done it.
This country needs to burn for this.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: Henny Youngman on October 07, 2010, 03:17:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLwxomHEcE4&feature=related
Hey Good Lookin'
I have to quit now, my ears are bleeding.
I want to stab 40 random people now.
I was JOKING. A BAD joke. And someone's already done it.
This country needs to burn for this.
There was more, but I just couldn't bring myself to click. I don't understand how someone could do this. I want to drive a big snowplow through rush hour traffic now.
I guess this is a thing like rule 34. If you can think of a song some douche has already played it on the ukelele.
Lady Gaga. On a uke. Go.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/wonderment/lady-gaga-goes-uke-0113681/
FML.
:lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Wow....
Tell a hipster that you hate hipsters and the first thing he'll say is "me too"
--my friend Mike
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 03:46:02 PM
Tell a hipster that you hate hipsters and the first thing he'll say is "me too"
--my friend Mike
That's just THEM trying to fuck with US.
My point has been missed. It is to be expected, I am not adept at keeping things brief.
The point is that it's not hipster's precise accoutrements that make them what they are. It's the overemphasized meta-contrarianism. And that is not going to melt away like a fad. It will just keep getting worse.
We are already promulgating a meta-anti-contrarianism by rebelling against hipsterism. Meaning, it is now cool to revile hipsters and ignore all of their fashion cues.
I anticipate the word "hipster" will expand to include this and any such new category. It consumes everything. The grey goo of fashion.
You're right naturally. Best thing to do is ignore it and not let the goo consume you.
I'll just let the stuff I like occasionally be a fad. Besides, it might be good for business. If suddenly there is a glut for the kind of music I play, I might get paid more. Especially if I'm obscure, which I am. So, theoretically I just have to get hipsters on the Doktor Blight Experience wagon and laugh all the way to the bank. Then cry as I use a good portion of that to pay off my bills.
Seriously, hipsters are a potential resource that should be tapped.
Yes. The only way to deal with the problem is to pretend you've never heard of them, and ignore anything people say about them. Even if you're clenching your teeth until they shatter.
Or, hire a marketing guru to make them aware of you without seeming like you're a known band.
Hire? No, I'll hire someone after the hipsters give me their loot and I can afford it.
Hipsters are good to get your name out there. When they stop listening to you because you're not obscure anymore, it's a good thing.
See again I don't think this Hipster thing is anything special. I think the meta-contrarian vibe is a sort of natural extension of the state of modern living.
Sort of like how after a movement like disco, we had to have punk
after boy bands, we had to have grunge
after arena rock, we had to have garage rock
and we've had another decade of treating pop stars like demi gods, watching celebrities show off $10,000 dresses on the red carpet, we've had entire years of overproduced unsatisfying crap rock, hopeless politics which only further disenfranchises us, and there is no real movement we can latch onto to carry us away from it.
I mean, so many of us got fired up on the HOPE and CHANGE meme back when we elected Barack, and the slick fuck is treading Bush's water? How can you not feel disenfranchised by it? What else can we do but be sarcastic and cynical and condescending towards anything that used to matter?
I can dig on the hilarity of irony. My most-watched VHS cassettes are movies that most people would consider unwatchable. One is a bad horror movie from 1981, one is the instructional tape that came with the board game DRAGON STRIKE, one is a poorly produced "how to prepare for the Y2K" video I picked up in February 2000. This is absolutely no different than wearing a grandma sweater and horned rim glasses. You don't resonate with contemporary culture so you're essentially embracing some kitschy cultural artifact from decades past.
these "hipsters" strike me as people who would have been beats or hippies if they had a Jack Kerouac or Ken Kesey. But what have we got today? there are a lot of great writers out there, but nobody's painting any new utopian pictures anymore. We (collectively) got fed up with the hippie's idealism, so we got punk nihilism. Then we got jaded with being nihilists, which moved us back into corporate rock, and that in turn produced this "indie" kick where all of the sudden music was about being high energy and sentimental at the same time.
I feel like the youth movement's motto is a sigh of frustration at all this crap, followed by a degree of acceptance. "This is it. Fuck it. It is what it is."
And ultimately I can't fault people for that. I'm frustrated too. I don't think there's a lot I can do to fix this world, so all I can do is comment on it. And yeah I'm fucking dissatisfied, but until there's a meaningful way to affect things what else can I do?
I think we need more threads on hipsters.
hipsters are the new libertarians
Hmm. I suppose I'll grant that it's not an invalid statement, given the times. I'm more offended, though, by the overcomplication of 'cool'.
I've always had fairly simple taste in 'cool'. Beastly cars, neat gadgets, badasses... I suppose if cool was simpler, I'd be a "James Bond" coolist.
Cool, by it's very nature, cannot be defined, at least with respect to specific things, people, or ideas.
I think that our idea of Cool is generated almost entirely by lame things.
In this decade, things are lame in very complex and nuanced ways. So the contemporary version of coolness contains both affinity and disdain. You're right, I don't think this is going to change.
Cool as a general concept, though, is very easy for me to explain.
It's anything that makes me feel good about being alive.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
Cool as a general concept, though, is very easy for me to explain.
It's anything that makes me feel good about being alive.
For some people, maybe it requires a bit of complication to feel good about being alive. Given the state of the universe... or at least the bit we monkeys are on, I can see why some people may not be satisfied with simplicity.
"Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy and don't take crap off anyone."
Just be glad they aren't doing covers using hurdy-gurdys.
Great, now the idea exists. It's going to happen now, thanks a lot.
Quote from: Sir Coyote on October 07, 2010, 07:38:01 PM
Just be glad they aren't doing covers using hurdy-gurdys.
I fucking hate you. :tgrr:
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 07, 2010, 07:40:59 PM
Great, now the idea exists. It's going to happen now, thanks a lot.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 07, 2010, 07:42:52 PM
I fucking hate you. :tgrr:
I aim to please. :lulz:
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 05:52:18 PM
hipsters are the new libertarians
if you have Free Will you might be a hipster.
HEY SERIOUSLY
where are these mythical hipsters?
I saw some people in hipster-ish clothing a while ago, but it was a few years back (at a concert) and then half a year back (at a second hand design furniture dump store) . So I guess those weren't it.
Do they actually exist?
How come we are all suddenly worrying about a bunch of people that 99% of the people participating in these threads have never even observed?
I'm not so much concerned with hipsters, now. I just dislike meta-contrarianism in fashion.
For Postergasm.
(In large font)
ATTENTION HIP PEOPLE
(In very small print)
Oh? You really think you are hip?, over and over and over.
i dont get on with hipsters because i'd look stupid in the clothes they wear and i'd kill myself repeatedly if i listened to the music they did. i think some people just need to latch on to a group or trend for a direction they think they should take. i however feel quite happy alone on a hill in a shed with the internet and call of duty 4. i definately lost the point somewhere near i don't...
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2010, 08:34:15 PM
HEY SERIOUSLY
where are these mythical hipsters?
I saw some people in hipster-ish clothing a while ago, but it was a few years back (at a concert) and then half a year back (at a second hand design furniture dump store) . So I guess those weren't it.
Do they actually exist?
How come we are all suddenly worrying about a bunch of people that 99% of the people participating in these threads have never even observed?
A hipster:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/219224ee.jpg)
:omg:
YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IRONY AND YOU ARE CONDESCENDING SO GO ROLL A CIGARETTE AND PLAY YOUR HURDY GURDY IF YOU THINK YOU'RE SO COOL
Screw that, LMNO, get one step ahead. Smoke your cigarette sideways. Light both ends, inhale from the center. Bonus points if you use your mustache curls to hold the ends, so you can smoke hands free. We've done enough talking about hipsters, we need to start deconstructing this shit.
The funny thing is that I wouldn't have pinned LMNO as being a hipster. I figured his 'stache was a Discordian thing...
Kinda like my old boss has a crazy 'stache but that's because he was in his 20s in the 70s.
So let me get this straight.....
Dressing as LMNO is in this picture is what adds to making one a hipster? That needs to be combined with...
music preference?
hangouts? -
I don't know.
I just don't see the problem with people dressing nicely. I would much prefer to see someone dressed like LMNO than half the shit you see people in today.
I guess I'm a hipster sympathizer....
Please keep in mind I may be engaged in playful self-mockery.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on October 08, 2010, 04:46:54 PM
Please keep in mind I may be engaged in playful self-mockery.
Well you look nice doing it! :ECH:
All pimped out as my sons would say!
Ah. I meant, as far as self-identifying as a hipster.
The outfit is 169% me.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on October 08, 2010, 04:52:50 PM
Ah. I meant, as far as self-identifying as a hipster.
The outfit is 169% me.
:mittens:
:lulz:
Trip,
As I've stated before, if someone makes themselves HAPPY by playing a uke, wearing non-prescription glasses, and dressing in jeans that make their feet numb, then good on 'em, they're in a state of Slack™. If, however, they're doing it because that's an image they feel they have to live up to, then it's Pinkboyism.
As far as I'm concerned, "hipster" (or "mod" or "clubber") is a state of mind, not a set of clothes.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
yeah I really don't get the hangups here about
(a) why this is a real group of people
It's not.
Quote
(b) why this particular group if people is in any way special enough to care about
Because it's not a real group of people, it's funny to care about them.
i don't mind hipsters, but maybe I just don't know any.
People wearing fake glasses pissed me off though, like it would be ok if I started using a fake wheelchair? FOR FASHION!
x
edd
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 07, 2010, 02:26:53 PM
That's a lot of power to give a passing fad.
Hipster as a term has been around since at least the 60's. that's not passing. Hipster as a concept, those that are always trying to stay on the edge of fashion, has been around, at the very least, since the Victorian era. A fop or a dandy not only acts like a hipster, they even dressed fairly similarly.
I'd say it's been around a lot longer and is tied into one of our basic drives. We want to fit in, and we don't want to just fit in with everyone, we want to fit in with the cool people. Just like any other monkey drive this tends to make us do really stupid things sometimes.
I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem, the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 07, 2010, 02:08:07 AM
Personally I think we should be thinking of ways that hipsters can be utilized.
you can always burn them for fuel.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2010, 08:34:15 PM
HEY SERIOUSLY
where are these mythical hipsters?
about 60% of the world's supply of hipsters can be found in Brooklyn. 30% can be found in Portland, OR and the remaining 10% are scattered throughout liberal urban metropolises that have high concentrations of both crappy music and crappy coffee shops.
so, basically, the other 10% are in Austin.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 07, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
I think that the problem is that they're the uncool kids who are unaware that they are the uncool kids and try to be uncool to be ironic and cool but it just makes them more uncool.
ok that just made my head burst. But I've found a use for them.
I shall start my reality safari with them.
THIS
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 10, 2010, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 07, 2010, 02:26:53 PM
That's a lot of power to give a passing fad.
Hipster as a term has been around since at least the 60's. that's not passing. Hipster as a concept, those that are always trying to stay on the edge of fashion, has been around, at the very least, since the Victorian era. A fop or a dandy not only acts like a hipster, they even dressed fairly similarly.
I'd say it's been around a lot longer and is tied into one of our basic drives. We want to fit in, and we don't want to just fit in with everyone, we want to fit in with the cool people. Just like any other monkey drive this tends to make us do really stupid things sometimes.
I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem, the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha.
Yep.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 10, 2010, 10:27:00 AM
I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem, the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha.
We opften poke at the drives that motivate humans... Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc. and in some sense those things can be problematic. However, I wonder if it would actually be better without those drives for most people, or if most people function because of those drives? I mean, if no one ever labeled any group, what would that do for communication? If no one behaved territorially, how would that affect society?
I mean, for those humans who can escape it and work it out, awesome welcome to the giant golden submarine... but for the rest?
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
It continues to amaze me how few people get that. Still.
It's easier to think The Machine is something else, rather than people like your neighbor or your friends.
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 11, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
It's easier to think The Machine is something else, rather than people like your neighbor or your friends.
Or you and me.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 11, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 11, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
It's easier to think The Machine is something else, rather than people like your neighbor or your friends.
Or you and me.
This.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 12, 2010, 12:04:04 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 11, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 11, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
It's easier to think The Machine is something else, rather than people like your neighbor or your friends.
Or you and me.
This.
The Horrible Truth™, like so many things is simplicity itself.
Nobody willingly allows themselves to realize that they are a neuron in a neuron hating brain.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 12, 2010, 03:16:14 AM
Nobody willingly allows themselves to realize that they are a neuron in a neuron hating brain.
That presumes the Machine
TM hates its Cogs
TM
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 12, 2010, 03:16:14 AM
Nobody willingly allows themselves to realize that they are a neuron in a neuron hating brain.
heh
maybe it doesn't hate us
maybe it just has a drinking problem
Quote from: Cramulus on October 12, 2010, 03:43:13 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 12, 2010, 03:16:14 AM
Nobody willingly allows themselves to realize that they are a neuron in a neuron hating brain.
heh
maybe it doesn't hate us
maybe it just has a drinking problem
That's cold man.
I realised today that Bohemian Like You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK5MC8pa_cY) (NSFW) seems to describe hipsters rather well, and that song is ten years old. Maybe hipstesrs always existed, but we only just named them.
Quote from: Roaring Biscuit! on October 09, 2010, 09:59:23 PM
i don't mind hipsters, but maybe I just don't know any.
People wearing fake glasses pissed me off though, like it would be ok if I started using a fake wheelchair? FOR FASHION!
x
edd
:lulz:
I'm waiting for fake bandages to become fashionable.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 10, 2010, 10:27:00 AM
I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem, the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha.
We opften poke at the drives that motivate humans... Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc. and in some sense those things can be problematic. However, I wonder if it would actually be better without those drives for most people, or if most people function because of those drives? I mean, if no one ever labeled any group, what would that do for communication? If no one behaved territorially, how would that affect society?
I mean, for those humans who can escape it and work it out, awesome welcome to the giant golden submarine... but for the rest?
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
Oh I agree, without our basic monkey drives we wouldn't be able to function as monkeys. And before we can function as people we have to function as monkeys.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
No...
The machine is made out of EVERYONE.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 12, 2010, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
No...
The machine is made out of EVERYONE.
Not sure what the No is responding to there.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
I think I am driven by a Short circuit. 8)
The Machine isn't made of certain kinds of behaviors with relation to specific 'circuits'. It's made of all human behaviors.
Which is why it is not normatively alterable or destroyable.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:13:35 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 12, 2010, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
No...
The machine is made out of EVERYONE.
Not sure what the No is responding to there.
I misread your post, and thought you were partitioning people.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 12, 2010, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:13:35 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 12, 2010, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 12, 2010, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 11, 2010, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 11, 2010, 10:06:13 PM
If we really destroyed The Machine, would people be free or broken?
They'd be dead, because The Machine, like Soylent Green, is made out of people.
Right, people that are often driven by Second Circuit behavior, labeling etc.
So my point was... while there are negative aspects of these... should we expect (or want) every monkey to dump those programs?
No...
The machine is made out of EVERYONE.
Not sure what the No is responding to there.
I misread your post, and thought you were partitioning people.
Ah!
No, I meant sometimes PD posters rant about people that want to follow an Alpha, or act in a territorial fashion or label themselves or try to fit in... etc etc And I think most of us understand that there can be inherent issues in those programs. However, I'm not sure that its necessarily a bad thing that some people want to follow an Alpha or label themselves or try to fit in. I mean, those programs have likely saved our species (or at least large chunks of our species) time and again in history. Though the Pranksters may not follow that way... does it mean the way is wrong, or just wrong for Tricksters?
I was reading "Trickster Makes the World" again and the Coyote story made me think about this. In some of the stories, Coyote tries to do what the other animals successfully do and fails because 'it is not his Way'. Even though the others have their Way and it works for them, that way doesn't work for Coyote. The tricksters discussed often have a way that is out of line with the other animals/gods/whatever. They have an in-between space, the live on the road, they have no "way" but can sometimes imitate others 'ways'... or they make up their way as they go along.
Can Joe Six-Pack handle giving up his Way and adopting the Tricksters way? Or would that be a Very Bad Thing in the end?
BabylonHoruv had said:"I don't think hipsters, as such, are a problem, the drive to fit in may be, but I'd say it's less of a problem than the drive to clan identity, or the drive to submit to an Alpha."
If you're not 'living at the crossroads', is 'fitting in' a problem? Is submitting to an Alpha? or Clan Identity? etc.
When I first got hit by the Golden Apple, I figured everyone else needed 'freed' as well. But the more I think about it the more it seems kinda self-centered. Just because I may be like Coyote and their 'way' doesn't work for me... does it make it a less valid 'way'? I think my evangelical upbringing made it easy to replace "The Good News of Jesus" with the "Words of Eris" and still preach it, and think people should convert to 'my way'. But now, I'm not so sure.
Link to the bit I was thinking of starts on pg 41
http://books.google.com/books?id=7j-Iu2qoD0kC&lpg=PA27&ots=fjF1E6BKOL&dq=Coyote%20%22Trickster%20Makes%20the%20World%22&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q=Coyote%20%22Trickster%20Makes%20the%20World%22&f=false
See, I think I'm better than most people, but not because I'm more enlightened or "doin' it right" or anything like that.
I'm just better.
Because.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 13, 2010, 02:48:14 AM
See, I think I'm better than most people, but not because I'm more enlightened or "doin' it right" or anything like that.
I'm just better.
Because.
This.
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
Quote from: Tempest Virago on October 15, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
Pretty sure everyone agreed with that.
Quote from: Tempest Virago on October 15, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
THIS.
Quote from: Tempest Virago on October 15, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
It's like "old poster" day at PD.com!
also, ITA.
Quote from: Tempest Virago on October 15, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
Well, yeah.
The thing that I think is interesting is that when we label hipsters, we are basically saying of them, "they are inauthentic, ingenuine, and unearnest". Ask a hipster why they're sporting a MacGyver T-shirt, and they will most likely say that it's because MacGyver is totally awesome and cool and they just love him. Ask why they're carrying around a vintage Diana, and they will say that it's because they love the individuality and realness of the pictures they produce. But, the person (always another hipster) doing the labeling will almost invariably say that the person they have tagged as "hipster" is wearing the MacGyver shirt ironically and using a Diana for kitsch value.
Despite the fact that there is actually nothing unearnest or ingenuine about liking irony or kitsch. Generations of hipsters have loved retro kitsch. My mother's generation wore "retro" clothes from the 30's and 40's. My mom STILL loves stuff from that era, just as I will probably still love stuff from the 50's and 60's when I'm old, and the youngest hipsters of today will still love retro kitsch from the 70's and 80's when they're old, and the babies being born now will love retro kitsch from the 90's and 00's.
Also, it's important to understand that the little babies who are sporting mullets and A-Team gear don't know what the word "ironic" means yet, so they're mostly using it to describe a feeling of liking something that isn't supposed to be cool, but which they like anyway because it gives them a certain feeling of nostalgia and kitsch. In fact, they really just need a few new vocabulary words to accurately describe why they like and buy the discards of the previous generation.
I don't hate hipsters for being inauthentic, I hate them for being inferior.
Quote from: First City Hustle on October 15, 2010, 06:33:10 PM
I don't hate hipsters for being inauthentic, I hate them for being inferior.
I hate them for being human.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 06:36:15 PM
Quote from: First City Hustle on October 15, 2010, 06:33:10 PM
I don't hate hipsters for being inauthentic, I hate them for being inferior.
I hate them for being human.
:mittens: motorcycle.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on October 15, 2010, 06:49:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 06:36:15 PM
Quote from: First City Hustle on October 15, 2010, 06:33:10 PM
I don't hate hipsters for being inauthentic, I hate them for being inferior.
I hate them for being human.
:mittens: motorcycle.
Different groups of humans bug me for different reasons...But they all bug me.
Hipsters bug me because of my first night in Providence. Before that, they weren't on my radar screen. Now, I may be wrong and bad for judging hundreds of thousands of people for the actions of less than 100 of their members, but I am what I am.
Seriously, the fuckers pretended to enjoy an hour of REALLY BAD uke playing and "ironic" rehashes of Tom Petty and Pink Floyd, but the moment Keith started to sing some really good
and original work, they all got up and left. Between Keith's sets, some came back to listen to a trustafarian do rotten things to an electric guitar that he had apparently just purchased.
That, combined with a hellish bar decorated with the very very worst things from the 70s, has put me off of hipsters for life. However, I will admit that the youngsters committing these crimes would have been equally guilty in any other genre or setting. They'd be the people at the science fiction convention that come to see the actors from
Battlestar Galactica, and leave without listening to Ray Bradbury or Jerry Pournelle...As they have no connection to anything more than the latest, greatest, cutting edge garbage.
Fucking kids. Get off my lawn. :tgrr:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 15, 2010, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: Tempest Virago on October 15, 2010, 06:29:47 AM
I don't care what they wear or listen to or where they hang out. I just hate the idea that being earnest, and genuine in your tastes, is a bad thing, or somehow mock worthy. Fuck that noise.
Pretty sure everyone agreed with that.
I just wanted to say it too. I feel very strongly about this.