My nephew Levi is a wonderful kid. He graduated from high school just this last June, and has spent this first summer of 'freedom' building a new computer and hanging out with his girlfriend. levi and I have also spent some time chatting, mostly about life in general, but sometimes about the serious threats we face today.
Like many kids nowadays, Levi despises the Bushies. He hates the war, the fact that we've lost crucial freedoms to the Patriot Act, and plans on voting for Kerry this year. He hopes that Kerry will pull the troops out of the Middle East, and do something to fix the economy (perhaps helping his family pull themselves out of poverty). Since he just turned 18, it will be the very first time he's getting to vote.
Unfortunately, Levi will be casting his very first ballot as an absentee voter, from some military base. He signed up for the Army at the start of his senior year in high school, since it was the only way he could get money for college. Despite his hatred of this stupid conflict, and the freaks behind it all, he still chose to sign on that damn dotted line.
The Recruiter assured Levi that his chosen duty would keep him far, far away from the war. So, what is the duty Levi signed up to be, which will keep him safe and sound (according to the ever-honest Recruiter)?
Combat Engineer. I shit you not.
So now Levi spends his last remaining summer days with his friends, and hopes he will return to see them someday soon. He ships out at the end of August for boot camp, then is scheduled to be sent to Germany for advanced training. Beyond that, Iraq, Afghanistan... who knows?
You may be asking yourself, "Just what the fuck does this have to do with me?" Very little, actually. Levi is just one of many young men being duped into joining the Military, on the hope that they will live long enough to make use of the benefits bestowed by the "G.I. Bill".
For his part, Levi has already prepared a short 'Last Will & Testament", just in case he does not return. Everything goes to his mom. I'm doubt she'll find comfort in that, if the day comes when somber men in uniforms knock on her door.
well that's depressing. damn army. college should be free.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Quote from: Slartibartfastwell that's depressing. damn army. college should be free.
you're right, college should be free, btucoporate america has conspired to make it not only mandatory, but expensive. remember, the world in which we live in is one in whcih anything may be bought or sold.
college should be unnecessary
joining the army should be unnecessary
having to say these things should be unnecessary
but such is life
tell Levi to duck, and to watch his buddy's back so he will watch Levi's
those who work best as a team are the most likely to survive, I think
you're a wise gnome.
there is no such thing as a wise gnome
only lucky ones
:wink:
I'm sorry to hear about Levi, Shecky.
My daughter has been watching her friends and old classmates
go off to Iraq and Germany and Afghanistan and Korea for the past couple of years.
Every single one of them signed up in order to get a college education. So far, everybody's okay.
We'll add Levi to the list of people we're keeping our fingers crossed for.
Thanks. I really didn't mean to depress anyone. It's just bugging me, now that his date for shipping out to Boot is drawing nigh (8/25).
1) Yes, college should be free, or at least it should be a hell of a lot easier to get an advanced education.
2) I can see the Army as a necessary evil, if it were used for National Defense, and not to mete out Bush's religious war, and to line the pockets of his corporate masters.
Once again, the poor fight and possibly die for the rich and privledged.
Quote from: Slartibartfastwell that's depressing. damn army. college should be free.
Over here, you join the military and they pay you to go to university...
I didn't do that for three reasons:
1.) despise the modern military in western society
2.) you must serve in the military for a period of four years plus twice as many years that you spent at university.
3.) not fit enough.
Uggh, I'm 18 too, and I laughed at the recruiters when they came around to talk to me. And I'm lucky enough (in some sense) that I have Asthma, Carpel Tunnels in both wrists (which on it's own won't keep you out of the army, but adds on to other things that will), and gay. Not that being gay disqualifies me, but I would tell the draft officer, "I'm queer, do I HAVE to wear green? I mean it just doesn't look good on me, red or blue are much better colors with my skin tone." And you just imagine how it would continue from there. I'd have the recruiter's panties in such a twist he would know what to do with himself.
Im unlucky enough to live in a country with compulsory military sevice, but luckily that country is Sweden so I probably wont get sent to Iraq.
Yay.
It seems weird to offer condolences for something he willingly agreed to... but still- good luck to him.
Quote from: SheckyThanks. I really didn't mean to depress anyone. It's just bugging me, now that his date for shipping out to Boot is drawing nigh (8/25).
1) Yes, college should be free, or at least it should be a hell of a lot easier to get an advanced education.
2) I can see the Army as a necessary evil, if it were used for National Defense, and not to mete out Bush's religious war, and to line the pockets of his corporate masters.
Once again, the poor fight and possibly die for the rich and privledged.
It is not Bush's religious war.
it's bush's oil war!
oh yes... bush's oil war. this is what it is.
i sense bitter sarcasm. what do YOU think it is?
Quote from: Slartibartfasti sense bitter sarcasm. what do YOU think it is?
if you are talking to me on that you need to go get your sarcasm detector fixed... if you were not I appologize for butting in where I don't belong and will try not to do so in the future.
blessed be.
lol i guess i need my sarcasm detector fixed, i thought you were bitterly disagreeing with me, sorry. *handshake*
there is an oil war people do not be foolled... this is not a religios war in bush's eyes.
jolly good.
Quote from: HwarangIt seems weird to offer condolences for something he willingly agreed to... but still- good luck to him.
it's because they sucker these kids in, they're poor and they have few prospects. They get sold the military like it's going to help them fix their lives quickly and easily... And like medieval times it is of course the poorest plebs who get sent in first. Joining the military is fine, but unless you're a senator's son, you're worm food in fatigues in time of war.
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDQuote from: HwarangIt seems weird to offer condolences for something he willingly agreed to... but still- good luck to him.
it's because they sucker these kids in, they're poor and they have few prospects. They get sold the military like it's going to help them fix their lives quickly and easily... And like medieval times it is of course the poorest plebs who get sent in first. Joining the military is fine, but unless you're a senator's son, you're worm food in fatigues in time of war.
yes. what the recruiter says and what's on the paper are more often than not two different things.
btu i say, isn;t being trained in the abiltiy to kill a man worth the chance of dying?
does anyone remeber when jimmy franks said we woudl not be deciding how effective this war is by body count(like in vietnam)?)
I agree, this is a war for oil, but it is also a religious war. Just ask the millions of pissed off Muslims in the Middle East. For them, Bush's war is no different than the fucking Crusades. It is also religious for the crowds of fanatical, end-time-lovin' Christian followers of Bush.
Regardless, war is war, regardless of the reasons behind it... what can't be disputed is that the empoverished do the dying while the rich go skiing in Aspen.
Fuckers.
Quote from: SheckyI agree, this is a war for oil, but it is also a religious war. Just ask the millions of pissed off Muslims in the Middle East. For them, Bush's war is no different than the fucking Crusades. It is also religious for the crowds of fanatical, end-time-lovin' Christian followers of Bush.
Regardless, war is war, regardless of the reasons behind it... what can't be disputed is that the empoverished do the dying while the rich go skiing in Aspen.
Fuckers.
Bush Does not see it as a holy war is all I'm saying... and I'm sorry as I christian I don't believe in holy war... If god was so fired up to have something done about it it would be done, no reason to go to war.
Quoteit's because they sucker these kids in, they're poor and they have few prospects. They get sold the military like it's going to help them fix their lives quickly and easily... And like medieval times it is of course the poorest plebs who get sent in first. Joining the military is fine, but unless you're a senator's son, you're worm food in fatigues in time of war.
Yes that's true, they do indeed, and it's pretty gross. But personal responsibility trumps all things. Young Levi should have investigated this very serious agreement he was about to make prior to signing.
Now I don't wanna spur an argument about Levi or whatever. I meant it when I said good luck to him.
And now we return to your "religious war vs oil war" debate.
...Is an oil war so wrong? I mean, it's obviously a moral trespass. There's no disagreement from me there. But when you look around the world, through the history of our planet and evolution of not just our species, but all species ... you can see a few things
1. All life is in competition. Most of it is very violent.
2. Stagnant lifeforms or societies die quickly.
3. Entire races have been wiped out and we view it merely as history. I draw your attention to Homo sapiens vs. Homo neanderthalensis ... archaeological records indicate that Homo sapiens committed genocide.
So perhaps we could view this (war of conquest) as a natural behavior of a species of our planet. That actually grants me a little peace of mind, in a weird sort of way. Just glad I'm on the winning side. . . though I could respect our leaders more if they were honest about the reason why. Just say it. "Hey we want this." ...
The problem with this war as an oil war is that it was unnecessary.
The argument is that the flow of oil had to be maintained because
Western economies are dependent on oil. Shut off the oil and they will
collapse like they did in the thirties. Once they have collapsed,
populations will turn to draconian dictators like Germany did to Hitler to
restore "the natural order of things." In order to do that, there will have
to be a war. And that war will be nuclear.
Ergo, if the oil stops, the balloon goes up and we all die.
The problem with this argument is that it is based on Saddam having
WMD. If Saddam were to have been in the position where he was not
scared of the US, then he probably would have tried to take over Kuwait
and Saudi Arabia and the rest of the western shore of the Gulf. (This time
he wouldn't have stopped at the Saudi border.)
Saddam didn't have WMD. He wasn't in a position to stop the flow of oil.
So we stopped him from doing something he wasn't going to do.
Now, however, we are in Iraq, and Iraq is in turmoil. We can not just up
and leave, because it would collapse and that could spread south. If it
spreads south, then the flow of oil stops, yada yada yada.
So we have to stay. But staying just increases the hostility towards the
US. And as the hostility increases, the possibility of the area collapsing
anyway also increases. So we have to get more oppressive to keep the
lid on (the Israeli option), which just increases the pressure for the lid to
blow, yada yada yada.
Between a rock and a hard place. Which is why Kerry and some others
say we have to convince Europe to send in troops, but they don't want to
send in troops because in the short term it means they are going to be
the target of hostility and they think they can scoot by without having
to pay, so, yada yada yada.
Anybody got a good fallout shelter?
(Of course, I am just a worrisome gnome. Don't pay any attention to me.
I worry about stuff like Michael Jackson's DNA, so how bad could it be?
Really?)
gnomes are so full of shit
Quote from: HwarangBut personal responsibility trumps all things. Young Levi should have investigated this very serious agreement he was about to make prior to signing.
Very true, that's why the first words out of my mouth when I heard about his signing up were
"What the fuck is that kid thinking?!?", followed shortly by
"You stupid motherfucker, just where do you think they need Combat Engineers the most? Germany? I think not..."While personal responsibility is very important, in my opinion, this was a empoverished kid that was duped by a Recruiter into signing his life away. Four years for just over $30,000 for college. If he's lucky, that'll pay for four years of schooling, assuming he returns alive and able to use those benefits. Then again, it will be at a Trade school or Community College, not a University as Levi hoped to attend. Hell, $30,000 won't even pay for two years a a decent University anymore!
So there's the rub. He signed up to better his life, based on a lie, and when he gets back he will still be condemned to the same crappy life that he left. Sure, the Government promises to send him to college, but with the loans he'll need to complete a real degree, he'll be worse off when he graduates than he currently is. Then he'll be saddledd with thousands in student loans, joining an economy that (under Bush) has seen over a million jobs just vanish in the last three years.
Good luck paying off those loans then. Thus, Kerry (for all his faults) MUST be elected this time!
Quotegnomes are so full of shit
Gnot the ones at Gmurrginn's Gnomes (Gmorning!)
Ted L nancy, anyone?
Quote from: Hwarang...Is an oil war so wrong?
2. Stagnant lifeforms or societies die quickly.
so why are we continuing this weird reliance on oil when there are so many alternatives to it...
lets end this stagnant reliance on something we do not need.
Quoteso why are we continuing this weird reliance on oil when there are so many alternatives to it...
lets end this stagnant reliance on something we do not need.
No disagreement there. Two things though...
1. We've already set up bahjillions of dollars worth of oil industry infrastructure. Everything from oil wells to gas pumps to refineries to containment and hauling vehicles. As long as everything's in place, we should not needlessly throw all that money away. We should tap the oil dry. Use it up. Unless there is some environmental reason why we would want to keep it, but as far as I know, lack of fossil fuels in the earth's crust isn't going to harm anything.
2. We should start now in converting our automotive infrastructure over to hybrid or alternative fuels. It can't happen overnight, so we'll need to ramp this process up BEFORE the oil dries up. Which it will.
Quote from: HwarangQuoteso why are we continuing this weird reliance on oil when there are so many alternatives to it...
lets end this stagnant reliance on something we do not need.
No disagreement there. Two things though...
1. We've already set up bahjillions of dollars worth of oil industry infrastructure. Everything from oil wells to gas pumps to refineries to containment and hauling vehicles. As long as everything's in place, we should not needlessly throw all that money away. We should tap the oil dry. Use it up. Unless there is some environmental reason why we would want to keep it, but as far as I know, lack of fossil fuels in the earth's crust isn't going to harm anything.
2. We should start now in converting our automotive infrastructure over to hybrid or alternative fuels. It can't happen overnight, so we'll need to ramp this process up BEFORE the oil dries up. Which it will.
this still does not sugest why we need to go to war over oil... we have active oil wells in america as well as an oil reserve... we can be useing these while we change the infrastructure over ( as well as make a profit from selling our old used equipment to countries that are adament about useing oil)
All the oil we have access to (a few wells, some reserve barrels and an untapped field in the alaskan tundra) would last about two weeks. Drop in the bucket.
The smartest option would be to switch now to a more plentiful resource - hydrogen. Quite common on earth and in the universe :)
Quote from: HwarangAll the oil we have access to (a few wells, some reserve barrels and an untapped field in the alaskan tundra) would last about two weeks. Drop in the bucket.
The smartest option would be to switch now to a more plentiful resource - hydrogen. Quite common on earth and in the universe :)
that would be an alternative energy source... and a damn good one as well.
Quote from: chaosgraves:agentoferisQuote from: HwarangAll the oil we have access to (a few wells, some reserve barrels and an untapped field in the alaskan tundra) would last about two weeks. Drop in the bucket.
The smartest option would be to switch now to a more plentiful resource - hydrogen. Quite common on earth and in the universe :)
that would be an alternative energy source... and a damn good one as well.
Costs more money than it makes. Oil will end the world one way (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/oilcrash.htm) or another (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Runaway_greenhouse.htm).
Then there are other ways (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm) the world might go bye-bye.
P.s: For a nice mindfuck read this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Dreamsend.htm).
Quote from: CannedLizard
Costs more money than it makes. Oil will end the world one way (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/oilcrash.htm) or another (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Runaway_greenhouse.htm).
Then there are other ways (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm) the world might go bye-bye.
P.s: For a nice mindfuck read this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Dreamsend.htm).
why is it people always bring up these money and government ideas?!?!?
Because they hate us.
I swear, if I ever found a thread here that didn't end up involving echo-gnomics or polyticks at some point, I'd worry.
they are trying to kill me.
Quote from: Llama Wishfart RinpocheBecause they hate us.
I swear, if I ever found a thread here that didn't end up involving echo-gnomics or polyticks at some point, I'd worry.
What's wrong with echo-gnomics?
Can't a gnome shout in a cave without somebody criticizing him?
Sheesh!
Quote from: chaosgraves:agentoferisQuote from: CannedLizard
Costs more money than it makes. Oil will end the world one way (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/oilcrash.htm) or another (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Runaway_greenhouse.htm).
Then there are other ways (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm) the world might go bye-bye.
P.s: For a nice mindfuck read this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Dreamsend.htm).
why is it people always bring up these money and government ideas?!?!?
By costing more money, I mean it uses more energy (from...well...oil) than it creates. Perhaps one day it'll work better, but don't expect it to be there in a coming emergency.
Quote from: CannedLizardQuote from: chaosgraves:agentoferisQuote from: CannedLizard
Costs more money than it makes. Oil will end the world one way (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/oilcrash.htm) or another (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Runaway_greenhouse.htm).
Then there are other ways (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm) the world might go bye-bye.
P.s: For a nice mindfuck read this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Dreamsend.htm).
why is it people always bring up these money and government ideas?!?!?
By costing more money, I mean it uses more energy (from...well...oil) than it creates. Perhaps one day it'll work better, but don't expect it to be there in a coming emergency.
so let me get this right, in your veiw energy =money?
Quote from: chaosgraves:agentoferisQuote from: CannedLizardQuote from: chaosgraves:agentoferisQuote from: CannedLizard
Costs more money than it makes. Oil will end the world one way (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/oilcrash.htm) or another (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Runaway_greenhouse.htm).
Then there are other ways (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm) the world might go bye-bye.
P.s: For a nice mindfuck read this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Dreamsend.htm).
why is it people always bring up these money and government ideas?!?!?
By costing more money, I mean it uses more energy (from...well...oil) than it creates. Perhaps one day it'll work better, but don't expect it to be there in a coming emergency.
so let me get this right, in your veiw energy =money?
OMG the bunnies are rich!
::starts sucking up to the bunnies::
Electro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDElectro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
I've made many a bomb that way.
Quote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDElectro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
I've made many a bomb that way.
I just want a car that's low polution.
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDQuote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDElectro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
I've made many a bomb that way.
I just want a car that's low polution.
This is one of the big things I find funny about hydrogen/electric cars:
Car.
Runs on Hydrogen (if electric, skip next step).
Hydrogen obtained via Electricity.
Electricity gotten from Power Gird.
Power Grid Supplied by Power Plant.
Power Plant burns fossil fuels.
Quote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDQuote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDElectro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
I've made many a bomb that way.
I just want a car that's low polution.
This is one of the big things I find funny about hydrogen/electric cars:
Car.
Runs on Hydrogen (if electric, skip next step).
Hydrogen obtained via Electricity.
Electricity gotten from Power Gird.
Power Grid Supplied by Power Plant.
Power Plant burns fossil fuels.
Ever hear of the Joe fuel cell?
I lent my book to some freep and never got it back.
Otherwise I'd have bought a car and converted it by now...
Quote from: St. Trollax, ODDQuote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDQuote from: Dream of the EndlessQuote from: St. Trollax, ODDElectro-static attraction actually works better than electrolosys for creating hydrogen/oxygen fuel-cells. the only problem is the plates have to be really close together. otherwise you can split water into its compnents with your car's regular 12V power supply.
I've made many a bomb that way.
I just want a car that's low polution.
This is one of the big things I find funny about hydrogen/electric cars:
Car.
Runs on Hydrogen (if electric, skip next step).
Hydrogen obtained via Electricity.
Electricity gotten from Power Gird.
Power Grid Supplied by Power Plant.
Power Plant burns fossil fuels.
Ever hear of the Joe fuel cell?
I lent my book to some freep and never got it back.
Otherwise I'd have bought a car and converted it by now...
No. And I'm too pissed at Google and its inability to give me a decent recipe for making Dragon's Blood Oil, since I have so little and don't want to waste any expirimenting, that I won't google it.