The father of a 9-year-old Cub Scout said Tuesday he has been forced out of a leadership role with the organization and ordered not to wear its uniform because of his sexual orientation. Jon Langbert of Dallas, Texas, who is openly gay, told HLN's "Prime News" that he had been wearing the shirt the Scouts gave him last year with pride. The shirt identified him as a member of the leadership team that was selling popcorn for a Scout fundraiser.
But that all changed last week. "Everything was running along smoothly until some of the dads complained," he said. When the complaints rose to a higher level of the Scout leadership, he was asked to stop wearing the shirt and give up his leadership role, he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/19/tex...ex.html?hpt=T2
The legality of the issue was decided in 2000 in a 5-4 Supreme Court decision by then-Chief Justice William Rehnquist, which said that private organizations like the Boy Scouts can set their own membership standards.
Land of the free........and bane of the different......
I suspect that's more of a regional thing, but I know practically nothing about the scouts in general, for all that I was a girl scout. I do, however, know about six scout leaders, who I will quiz when the opportunity arises.
Regional or not, it's just hate.
I'm not denying that, and I'm not suggesting that what they did is acceptable (sorry if it come off like that). It sounded to me like you were castigating the entire organization, that's all.
No, I would never do that. It just pisses me off.
I'm saying much the same thing I've said elsewhere.....
I have no issues with people's sexual persuasion. I believe it's a you're born with that thing and if that is what the floating asshole in the sky wanted for them fine. I have no issues about my kids being around gay people, I have friends and my kids have friends who are openly gay and they're pretty cool with it. The boys can be a bit homophobic at first, but after a bit they are fine. As long as there isn't the pedo kiddy diddling, we're good.
However, this was a supreme court decision. It was a major decision within the gay community and for this guy to act all I didn't know and get offended now, eh, I think he's looking for his 5 minutes of fame or is trying to get this reopened maybe?
I may not like the court's decision, I think it's as much of a hate crime as any other gay bashing but there are a lot of laws out there I do not agree with.
I just think making a huge fuss at this point for or against this guy's sexual freedom is media attention.
There are gay nine year olds? Sorry, that just surprised me.
Ugh. Fucking Rehnquist. I hate him. He also votes against the first amendment as often as possible.
Quote from: Sigmatic on October 20, 2010, 06:46:54 PM
There are gay nine year olds? Sorry, that just surprised me.
Ugh. Fucking Rehnquist. I hate him. He also votes against the first amendment as often as possible.
The
father of a 9-year-old Cub Scout
And, Rehnquist, yeah.
This is one of those issues that irks me no matter how it goes. On the one hand, 'freedom to be an ass' is still a freedom and a private organization should be free to have members based on whatever they want. However, there's no question that, at the same time, its discrimination.
It's like the KKK's hate speech. I don't like, I think the people that do it are bigoted and stupid (and homophobic in this case)... but its still a question of freedom. If we defend only the freedom we like, that's a bad plan.
:argh!: :cry: :argh!:
Quote from: Kiaransalee on October 20, 2010, 06:45:27 PM
I'm saying much the same thing I've said elsewhere.....
I have no issues with people's sexual persuasion. I believe it's a you're born with that thing and if that is what the floating asshole in the sky wanted for them fine. I have no issues about my kids being around gay people, I have friends and my kids have friends who are openly gay and they're pretty cool with it. The boys can be a bit homophobic at first, but after a bit they are fine. As long as there isn't the pedo kiddy diddling, we're good.
However, this was a supreme court decision. It was a major decision within the gay community and for this guy to act all I didn't know and get offended now, eh, I think he's looking for his 5 minutes of fame or is trying to get this reopened maybe?
I may not like the court's decision, I think it's as much of a hate crime as any other gay bashing but there are a lot of laws out there I do not agree with.
I just think making a huge fuss at this point for or against this guy's sexual freedom is media attention.
Because all gays are pedophiles. Check.
OH.
*bangs head* Nice, reading comprehension, scholar. :lol:
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 06:56:41 PM
This is one of those issues that irks me no matter how it goes. On the one hand, 'freedom to be an ass' is still a freedom and a private organization should be free to have members based on whatever they want. However, there's no question that, at the same time, its discrimination.
It's like the KKK's hate speech. I don't like, I think the people that do it are bigoted and stupid (and homophobic in this case)... but its still a question of freedom. If we defend only the freedom we like, that's a bad plan.
:argh!: :cry: :argh!:
Hmmmm, how did that work for private golf courses not allowing blacks in?
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 06:57:40 PM
Quote from: Kiaransalee on October 20, 2010, 06:45:27 PM
I'm saying much the same thing I've said elsewhere.....
I have no issues with people's sexual persuasion. I believe it's a you're born with that thing and if that is what the floating asshole in the sky wanted for them fine. I have no issues about my kids being around gay people, I have friends and my kids have friends who are openly gay and they're pretty cool with it. The boys can be a bit homophobic at first, but after a bit they are fine. As long as there isn't the pedo kiddy diddling, we're good.
However, this was a supreme court decision. It was a major decision within the gay community and for this guy to act all I didn't know and get offended now, eh, I think he's looking for his 5 minutes of fame or is trying to get this reopened maybe?
I may not like the court's decision, I think it's as much of a hate crime as any other gay bashing but there are a lot of laws out there I do not agree with.
I just think making a huge fuss at this point for or against this guy's sexual freedom is media attention.
Because all gays are pedophiles. Check.
WTF? I did not say that. I said as long as there isn't anything like that. And that was not intended that way and I really think you know it!
:lulz:
Gotcha.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 07:13:17 PM
:lulz:
Gotcha.
Dude, damn.....
BITE ME!!! I want a stick out your tongue rasberry smiley dammit!!!!
:lulz:
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 06:59:41 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 06:56:41 PM
This is one of those issues that irks me no matter how it goes. On the one hand, 'freedom to be an ass' is still a freedom and a private organization should be free to have members based on whatever they want. However, there's no question that, at the same time, its discrimination.
It's like the KKK's hate speech. I don't like, I think the people that do it are bigoted and stupid (and homophobic in this case)... but its still a question of freedom. If we defend only the freedom we like, that's a bad plan.
:argh!: :cry: :argh!:
Hmmmm, how did that work for private golf courses not allowing blacks in?
Depends on the specific instance. If the number of members is below a specific threshold, if they operate as a business or if they receive no public funds, they can discriminate. If however the go over the membership threshold and/or receive any public funding, then they cannot as they are a "place of public accommodation" rather than a private club. It also varies by State... Michigan, I think classified almost all of the private clubs in their state as public. New York is more strict than the federal requirements, but more lenient than Michigan.
I still think its amoral and that citizens should make such groups sorry they behaved in such a fashion... but Americans are lazy bastards.
Semi-certain you're also SUPPOSED to be a Christian to be a Scout leader too. Or at least, that's what it said in a presentation I saw a few months back. Assuming I was listening.
Well, in theory, sure.
In practice, no-one in the UK Scout Movement at least gives a crap about Christianity, beyond not drinking the night before parades for St George's Day, the Queen's Birthday etc
Tying knots, camping, pinewood derby, funding drives, learning crafts...
God isn't the only one who can teach those things, is he?
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 08:57:48 PM
Tying knots, camping, pinewood derby, funding drives, learning crafts...
God isn't the only one who can teach those things, is he?
Ever read the scout handbook? :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 08:57:48 PM
Tying knots, camping, pinewood derby, funding drives, learning crafts...
God isn't the only one who can teach those things, is he?
Ever read the scout handbook? :lulz:
I was a cubmaster once.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 08:57:48 PM
Tying knots, camping, pinewood derby, funding drives, learning crafts...
God isn't the only one who can teach those things, is he?
Ever read the scout handbook? :lulz:
I was a cubmaster once.
Half of the boy scout handbook is laughable propaganda.
For example, did you know that masturbation will make you feebleminded?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 08:57:48 PM
Tying knots, camping, pinewood derby, funding drives, learning crafts...
God isn't the only one who can teach those things, is he?
Ever read the scout handbook? :lulz:
I was a cubmaster once.
Half of the boy scout handbook is laughable propaganda.
For example, did you know that masturbation will make you feebleminded?
Fuck, that explains a lot.
Quote from: BDS on October 20, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
Semi-certain you're also SUPPOSED to be a Christian to be a Scout leader too. Or at least, that's what it said in a presentation I saw a few months back. Assuming I was listening.
This is true. There actually is already a more open organization, the spiral scouts, but they aren't as popular as the boy/girl scouts and so people are less likely to have a local troop.
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=111755
According to that document, Gays, Atheists, Agnostics and Mormons are not allowed to be scout leaders. It also points out that this appears to vary wildly on a troop by troop basis.
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 09:29:50 PM
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=111755
According to that document, Gays, Atheists, Agnostics and Mormons are not allowed to be scout leaders. It also points out that this appears to vary wildly on a troop by troop basis.
:lulz:
AS a former Mormon they have a charter from BSA. They are very active in Cub and Boy scouts nationwide.
QuoteA Raleigh, NC, couple whose sons joined a Cub Scouts pack hosted by a Presbyterian church were initially accepted as Scout leaders--but then told that although their sons were welcome to stay in the pack, the parents themselves would not be allowed to serve as pack leaders because they are Mormons.
QuoteA Wikipedia article on the Boy Scouts of America notes that apart from the requirement that Scouts and adult leaders be religious in some capacity, the organization itself does not discriminate on the basis of religious faith. "The BSA believes that atheists and agnostics are not appropriate role models of the Scout Oath and Law for boys, and thus will not accept such adults as leaders," the Wikipedia article states. "The BSA does not require adherence to any particular religious beliefs or ethos beyond this," the article goes on to note. "Buddhists, followers of Native American religions, Muslims, Jews, Christians of all denominations, Wiccans, and many others can be and are members of the BSA. The BSA recognizes religious awards for over 38 faith groups including Baha'i, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Hinduism, and 28 varieties of Christianity."
But the rules of the overall organization and the rules set out by individual organizations that host Scout troops may diverge in some respects. Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts of America executive director Mark Turner told the AP that the church-run Scout pack could turn away prospective leaders due to their religious faiths, and cited as an example of the latitude that individual troops have one Scout pack that only admits boys who are home-schooled. "If you're in the unit for three or four years and your family sends you back to school, you're out of the troop," said Mecklenburg. "That's their niche."
QuoteThe Stokes family subsequently enrolled their sons in another troop--one run by a Mormon church.
:lulz:
So the BSA can say "We don't discriminate... but our individual troops can... unless you're gay, atheist or agnostic... then GTFO"
:lulz:
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
Not according to Orrin Hatch.
"Gays don't go to church. Politics is their religion."
- Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), June 6th, 2010.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
:lulz:
I actually don't understand the gay Christians. Well, the ones that are associating with gay = bad Christians.. I just don't get why a gay person would want to associate with a religion that discriminates against them, condemns them to hell and generally are a bunch of bigoted assholes. Unitarians, sure... but Catholics? Baptists?
I support their right to associate with them... I just don't understand WHY they would want to.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
Not according to Orrin Hatch.
"Gays don't go to church. Politics is their religion."
- Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), June 6th, 2010.
NOW GO ASK SOMEONE WITH A REAL INTELLIGENCE.
Orrin Hatch....shudder
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 09:55:10 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
:lulz:
I actually don't understand the gay Christians. Well, the ones that are associating with gay = bad Christians.. I just don't get why a gay person would want to associate with a religion that discriminates against them, condemns them to hell and generally are a bunch of bigoted assholes. Unitarians, sure... but Catholics? Baptists?
I support their right to associate with them... I just don't understand WHY they would want to.
So, cocksuckers can't believe in god? Sodom and that other city I can't spell wasn't just about gays.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
Not according to Orrin Hatch.
"Gays don't go to church. Politics is their religion."
- Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), June 6th, 2010.
NOW GO ASK SOMEONE WITH A REAL INTELLIGENCE.
Orrin Hatch....shudder
He and Rep Butters are the reason we dug that big ditch between the two states. They keep upsetting our Gays.
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 09:55:10 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
:lulz:
I actually don't understand the gay Christians. Well, the ones that are associating with gay = bad Christians.. I just don't get why a gay person would want to associate with a religion that discriminates against them, condemns them to hell and generally are a bunch of bigoted assholes. Unitarians, sure... but Catholics? Baptists?
I support their right to associate with them... I just don't understand WHY they would want to.
So, cocksuckers can't believe in god? Sodom and that other city I can't spell wasn't just about gays.
That's not what I said at all.
I said I don't understand why they would want to associate with the christian groups that preach an anti-gay view.
The Bible was written by homophobic tribal people... its not an all inclusive message (though some religions have tried to fix that). I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that seems to be necessary to accept "The Bible is True... except the bits that condemns my relationship with the person I love". I would think that experiencing the life of a gay person would be enough to expose the ignorance that was rife among the Bible Writers. Once that's obvious, why worry about the other BS they spouted?
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 10:05:03 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 09:55:10 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on October 20, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
Ahem. There are religious gay people. Seriously. Google it.
:lulz:
I actually don't understand the gay Christians. Well, the ones that are associating with gay = bad Christians.. I just don't get why a gay person would want to associate with a religion that discriminates against them, condemns them to hell and generally are a bunch of bigoted assholes. Unitarians, sure... but Catholics? Baptists?
I support their right to associate with them... I just don't understand WHY they would want to.
So, cocksuckers can't believe in god? Sodom and that other city I can't spell wasn't just about gays.
That's not what I said at all.
I said I don't understand why they would want to associate with the christian groups that preach an anti-gay view.
The Bible was written by homophobic tribal people... its not an all inclusive message (though some religions have tried to fix that). I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that seems to be necessary to accept "The Bible is True... except the bits that condemns my relationship with the person I love". I would think that experiencing the life of a gay person would be enough to expose the ignorance that was rife among the Bible Writers. Once that's obvious, why worry about the other BS they spouted?
Pretty much every Christian has a similar kind of cognitive dissonance
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2yzd7qr.jpg)
:lulz:
The gay Christians I know either ignore it all, point out that shit gets mistranslated, or point to Sodom and Gomorrah as a hospitality/thou shalt not rape story.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on October 20, 2010, 10:15:47 PM
Pretty much every Christian has a similar kind of cognitive dissonance
Any opinions on Jews or Blacks, since we're stereotyping?
Quote from: Hover Cat on October 20, 2010, 10:18:38 PM
:lulz:
The gay Christians I know either ignore it all, point out that shit gets mistranslated, or point to Sodom and Gomorrah as a hospitality/thou shalt not rape story.
So just like any other cognitive dissonance...
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 20, 2010, 10:05:03 PM
I said I don't understand why they would want to associate with the christian groups that preach an anti-gay view.
The Bible was written by homophobic tribal people... its not an all inclusive message (though some religions have tried to fix that). I just don't understand the cognitive dissonance that seems to be necessary to accept "The Bible is True... except the bits that condemns my relationship with the person I love". I would think that experiencing the life of a gay person would be enough to expose the ignorance that was rife among the Bible Writers. Once that's obvious, why worry about the other BS they spouted?
The non-gay Christians use just as much cognitive dissonance in order to make their brand of Christianity to strictly follow some parts of the Bible but not other parts.
Also, there's a lot of different flavours of christianity out there.
Especially among the christian student communities here, being gay is not that much of an issue. Mostly. Except when it is.
Hm now that I think of it, I think the best explanation is that they were just raised Christian-lite, by parents that may be Christian, but generally were rather tolerant. Then, as they grew up, they never bothered to make up their own minds about their worldview and stuck with whatever religion they grew up in.
I would share your wonder about people being raised agnostic or atheist, find out they're gay, and then choose to become Christian. You need some
serious cognitive dissonance to come up with that. But still, serious cognitive dissonance is what us monkeys are
good at so I wouldn't put it past us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by memnoch View Post
Because I was born white I can't be the head of the NAACP. Because I was born male I can't be a waitress at Hooters. Such is life.
Grushevski filed this lawsuit after he tried to apply for a "Hooters Girls" job at a local restaurant. The manager told him that Hooters doesn't hire men as waiters. Grushevski says in the suit that he is offended by the decision and wants Hooters to give the same rights to men as a food server. A similar suit was filed against Hooters in 1997, when seven men from Chicago filed a $2-million claim against Hooters for not making the kitchen staff and bartender "gender neutral." Hooters paid the damages and reversed their policy, but in this case they are not willing to change their stance.
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz12wAVQ75N
Ahem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by memnoch View Post
Because I was born white I can't be the head of the NAACP. Because I was born male I can't be a waitress at Hooters. Such is life.
The NAACP was incorporated a year later in 1911. The association's charter delineated its mission:
To promote equality of rights and to eradicate caste or race prejudice among the citizens of the United States; to advance the interest of colored citizens; to secure for them impartial suffrage; and to increase their opportunities for securing justice in the courts, education for the children, employment according to their ability and complete equality before law.
The conference resulted in a more influential and diverse organization, where the leadership was predominantly white and heavily Jewish American. In fact, at its founding, the NAACP had only one African American on its executive board, Du Bois himself. It did not elect a black president until 1975, although executive directors had been African American.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...Colored_People
Okay, now this is fun.
:lulz:
Same topic, only from MW.
:lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 20, 2010, 10:18:50 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on October 20, 2010, 10:15:47 PM
Pretty much every Christian has a similar kind of cognitive dissonance
Any opinions on Jews or Blacks, since we're stereotyping?
No but I have quite a few choice words reserved for the Irish.
EDIT: And dont get me started on Canadians
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/8074450/Canadian-military-officer-exposed-as-a-cross-dressing-killer.html?ref=nf
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on October 20, 2010, 11:57:59 PM
No but I have quite a few choice words reserved for the Irish.
HELLO!!!!
:argh!:
I'M IRISH!!!!!!!
Do I have to come beat you with my fucking shillelagh?
UGH find another race to give shit too for a fucking while ok.
Also, since you can't seem to tell the fucking difference, where people come from is completely different from whatever they choose to worship.
Christ on a fucking crutch I'm going to the bar!