I like free cheese and hating on the IMF as much as anyone, but maybe Ireland should just admit it has the accounting skills of a meth-addled dyscalculia sufferer and ask for financial aid
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/ireland-recession-let-them-eat-cheese
QuoteThe country may be a few heartbeats away from intervention by the International Monetary Fund but today the Irish government had a novel message for the public: let them eat cheese.
Brendan Smith, the agriculture minister, announced a European Union-funded scheme today that will enable the country to tuck into the EU's cheese mountain. 53 tonnes of fresh cheddar will be distributed from 15 November with collection centres in towns and cities around the country.
The minister said the scheme was "an important means of contributing towards the well-being of the most deprived citizens in the community".
"I am very conscious that many people find themselves in difficult circumstances at present and I want to commend the work of the many charitable organisations who are working on the front line to bring what comfort and relief they can," said Smith.
The initiative was immediately attacked by the opposition Fine Gael party, who called it an insult to the country, which is suffering the worst financial crisis in its history.
Brian Lenihan, the finance minister, announced on Thursday that his budget next month would cut £5.2bn from public spending, twice the amount first suggested and coming on top of swingeing cuts already made in last year's budget.
Fine Gael's agriculture spokesman, Andrew Doyle, said: "People on the breadline would rather the government's attention was on solving the economic crisis they caused and providing jobs rather than on this ridiculous announcement.
"This shows just how out of touch Fianna Fáil and the Greens truly are. Maybe looking down from their ministerial Mercs, [taoiseach or prime minister] Brian Cowen, Brendan Smith et al think that all the Irish people want or need is cheese. The truth is sadly different.
"It goes to show that they think that providing free cheese will soft soap the electorate and make us all forget the mess Fianna Fáil made of the country and the hardship Brian Lenihan will inflict on everyone. It won't."
In the past butter has been given out to the needy, but this year it was felt cheese was easier to distribute. The cheese has been manufactured in Ireland and will be bought by the government from the Irish Dairy Board and made available through charities.
The initiative was welcomed by the Society of St Vincent de Paul, a charity that looks after the poor in Ireland. It said it has seen the numbers of people seeking assistance soar. "We have people on social welfare, single mothers, the elderly, lone parents. Half the calls we take are about food and energy," said a spokesman.
But the announcement tested the patience of the wider public, who have already been warned of deep cuts to pensions, pay and social welfare in the forthcoming budget.
One caller to RTÉ's Joe Duffy phone-in radio show said: "The fact that Marie Antoinette said 'let them eat cake' was the beginning of the revolution – is that what they want?"
Another caller said: "Have they taken leave of their senses? It's not cheese that people who have lost their jobs that people are worried about, it's about how they're going to tell their children or grandchildren that Santa has very little money.
"What are they going to tell their children and grandchildren: that Santa has cheese instead?"
Wouldnt potatoes be better?
I mean, it seems a bit random and not that pragmatic to distribute cheese - what im getting to is that, would the government have an agreement with a cheese seller for profit? Like, politician A gives concession to cheese selling company A, and company A gives tax-free money to politician A?
i wonder if cheese would make a good fire. its a cold country
Why is redistributing food surplus to the poor a bad thing? The US has done it for ages.
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I miss the government cheese. We used to get it back when I was a little kid. It was pretty good cheese. Do they still give out the government cheese?
Quote from: Cain on November 05, 2010, 10:53:41 PM
I like free cheese and hating on the IMF as much as anyone, but maybe Ireland should just admit it has the accounting skills of a meth-addled dyscalculia sufferer and ask for financial aid
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/ireland-recession-let-them-eat-cheese
QuoteThe country may be a few heartbeats away from intervention by the International Monetary Fund but today the Irish government had a novel message for the public: let them eat cheese.
Brendan Smith, the agriculture minister, announced a European Union-funded scheme today that will enable the country to tuck into the EU's cheese mountain. 53 tonnes of fresh cheddar will be distributed from 15 November with collection centres in towns and cities around the country.
The minister said the scheme was "an important means of contributing towards the well-being of the most deprived citizens in the community".
"I am very conscious that many people find themselves in difficult circumstances at present and I want to commend the work of the many charitable organisations who are working on the front line to bring what comfort and relief they can," said Smith.
The initiative was immediately attacked by the opposition Fine Gael party, who called it an insult to the country, which is suffering the worst financial crisis in its history.
Brian Lenihan, the finance minister, announced on Thursday that his budget next month would cut £5.2bn from public spending, twice the amount first suggested and coming on top of swingeing cuts already made in last year's budget.
Fine Gael's agriculture spokesman, Andrew Doyle, said: "People on the breadline would rather the government's attention was on solving the economic crisis they caused and providing jobs rather than on this ridiculous announcement.
"This shows just how out of touch Fianna Fáil and the Greens truly are. Maybe looking down from their ministerial Mercs, [taoiseach or prime minister] Brian Cowen, Brendan Smith et al think that all the Irish people want or need is cheese. The truth is sadly different.
"It goes to show that they think that providing free cheese will soft soap the electorate and make us all forget the mess Fianna Fáil made of the country and the hardship Brian Lenihan will inflict on everyone. It won't."
In the past butter has been given out to the needy, but this year it was felt cheese was easier to distribute. The cheese has been manufactured in Ireland and will be bought by the government from the Irish Dairy Board and made available through charities.
The initiative was welcomed by the Society of St Vincent de Paul, a charity that looks after the poor in Ireland. It said it has seen the numbers of people seeking assistance soar. "We have people on social welfare, single mothers, the elderly, lone parents. Half the calls we take are about food and energy," said a spokesman.
But the announcement tested the patience of the wider public, who have already been warned of deep cuts to pensions, pay and social welfare in the forthcoming budget.
One caller to RTÉ's Joe Duffy phone-in radio show said: "The fact that Marie Antoinette said 'let them eat cake' was the beginning of the revolution – is that what they want?"
Another caller said: "Have they taken leave of their senses? It's not cheese that people who have lost their jobs that people are worried about, it's about how they're going to tell their children or grandchildren that Santa has very little money.
"What are they going to tell their children and grandchildren: that Santa has cheese instead?"
MEANWHILE
bono is doing, what? where else?
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:03:57 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I miss the government cheese. We used to get it back when I was a little kid. It was pretty good cheese. Do they still give out the government cheese?
It still exists but I think the distribution is different, in that it largely goes to indian reservations (like it always did) and also WIC, school lunch programs, and assistance programs for families with kids under the age of six. You can't just go to the food distribution center and pick up a food box, like it used to be.
I kind of miss the simplicity of the old food assistance program... I could do a lot with flour, lard, cheese, peanut butter, beans, and canned meat, corn, and tomatoes.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 02:27:23 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:03:57 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I miss the government cheese. We used to get it back when I was a little kid. It was pretty good cheese. Do they still give out the government cheese?
It still exists but I think the distribution is different, in that it largely goes to indian reservations (like it always did) and also WIC, school lunch programs, and assistance programs for families with kids under the age of six. You can't just go to the food distribution center and pick up a food box, like it used to be.
I kind of miss the simplicity of the old food assistance program... I could do a lot with flour, lard, cheese, peanut butter, beans, and canned meat, corn, and tomatoes.
Me too. :sad:
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:29:16 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 02:27:23 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:03:57 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I miss the government cheese. We used to get it back when I was a little kid. It was pretty good cheese. Do they still give out the government cheese?
It still exists but I think the distribution is different, in that it largely goes to indian reservations (like it always did) and also WIC, school lunch programs, and assistance programs for families with kids under the age of six. You can't just go to the food distribution center and pick up a food box, like it used to be.
I kind of miss the simplicity of the old food assistance program... I could do a lot with flour, lard, cheese, peanut butter, beans, and canned meat, corn, and tomatoes.
Me too. :sad:
Um um um
It looks like Michigan still has their assistance program: http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5453_5527-21832--,00.html :lulz:
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 02:45:52 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:29:16 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 02:27:23 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 02:03:57 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I miss the government cheese. We used to get it back when I was a little kid. It was pretty good cheese. Do they still give out the government cheese?
It still exists but I think the distribution is different, in that it largely goes to indian reservations (like it always did) and also WIC, school lunch programs, and assistance programs for families with kids under the age of six. You can't just go to the food distribution center and pick up a food box, like it used to be.
I kind of miss the simplicity of the old food assistance program... I could do a lot with flour, lard, cheese, peanut butter, beans, and canned meat, corn, and tomatoes.
Me too. :sad:
Um um um
It looks like Michigan still has their assistance program: http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5453_5527-21832--,00.html :lulz:
Michigan FAP? :lulz:
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I don't remember the government cheese, although I've been told I was raised on it, but I do remember the government peanut butter. I love it when people assume that because I can sting words together properly that I wasn't poor. :argh!:
Sinne Fianna Fail ata faoi gheall ag Eireann... (sorry had to). Irish cheese is pretty good I must say. Though, you're right, we're not very good with math.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 05, 2010, 11:10:56 PM
Wouldnt potatoes be better?
I mean, it seems a bit random and not that pragmatic to distribute cheese - what im getting to is that, would the government have an agreement with a cheese seller for profit? Like, politician A gives concession to cheese selling company A, and company A gives tax-free money to politician A?
Please to see Irish history and the role of the potato :)
Quote from: slothrop23 on November 05, 2010, 11:20:50 PM
i wonder if cheese would make a good fire. its a cold country
As far as the last time I was there, turf is still available, and the country is generally warmer than New England in the winter. It's not so much cold as wet.
Quote from: E.O.T. on November 06, 2010, 02:20:06 AM
MEANWHILE
bono is doing, what? where else?
Paying attention to the developing countries, worshipping Jeebus and writing crappy music.
Blight,
-Just got back from the bar, so ignore me :cheers:
ETA: The bit in Irish at the beginning is the start of the chorus of the Irish national anthem. Fianna Fail has a different context there, but it is also the name of one of the political parties, which, if I recall correctly is the predominant party and Ireland's version of the GOP.
Quote from: Sir Coyote on November 06, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I can sting words together properly that I wasn't poor. :argh!:
I assume that is poor for "string"? :lulz:
Seriously though, these days elocution/education level have a perceived correlation to economic upbringing in a surprisingly large swath of the population. Anybody else remember "ebonics"?
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:15:39 AM
Sinne Fianna Fail ata faoi gheall ag Eireann... (sorry had to). Irish cheese is pretty good I must say. Though, you're right, we're not very good with math.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on November 05, 2010, 11:10:56 PM
Wouldnt potatoes be better?
I mean, it seems a bit random and not that pragmatic to distribute cheese - what im getting to is that, would the government have an agreement with a cheese seller for profit? Like, politician A gives concession to cheese selling company A, and company A gives tax-free money to politician A?
Please to see Irish history and the role of the potato :)
Quote from: slothrop23 on November 05, 2010, 11:20:50 PM
i wonder if cheese would make a good fire. its a cold country
As far as the last time I was there, turf is still available, and the country is generally warmer than New England in the winter. It's not so much cold as wet.
Quote from: E.O.T. on November 06, 2010, 02:20:06 AM
MEANWHILE
bono is doing, what? where else?
Paying attention to the developing countries, worshipping Jeebus and writing crappy music.
Blight,
-Just got back from the bar, so ignore me :cheers:
ETA: The bit in Irish at the beginning is the start of the chorus of the Irish national anthem. Fianna Fail has a different context there, but it is also the name of one of the political parties, which, if I recall correctly is the predominant party and Ireland's version of the GOP.
Cheers, Blight. :)
ETA: Clarification. And again.
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:23:50 AM
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
I always drink at home. Drinking at bars gets people like me in trouble. :lulz:
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:23:50 AM
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
I always drink at home. Drinking at bars gets people like me in trouble. :lulz:
I do prefer that since it's cheaper, but some Fridays you just need the ambience.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:48:09 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:23:50 AM
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
I always drink at home. Drinking at bars gets people like me in trouble. :lulz:
I do prefer that since it's cheaper, but some Fridays you just need the ambience.
I guess I understand. There is a little Irish pud I like to go to sometimes just down the road from my college. I don't drink there, but I dig the environment.
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 04:01:47 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:48:09 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:23:50 AM
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
I always drink at home. Drinking at bars gets people like me in trouble. :lulz:
I do prefer that since it's cheaper, but some Fridays you just need the ambience.
I guess I understand. There is a little Irish pud I like to go to sometimes just down the road from my college. I don't drink there, but I dig the environment.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 04:37:05 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 04:01:47 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:48:09 AM
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 06, 2010, 03:23:50 AM
Would have stayed longer but the commute home on public transportation would have gotten progressively crappier. I had the option of drinking in my neighborhood and having a 15 minute walk home later or getting pints for a buck fifty each closer to work with about an hour and 20 trip home. I opted for the latter.
I always drink at home. Drinking at bars gets people like me in trouble. :lulz:
I do prefer that since it's cheaper, but some Fridays you just need the ambience.
I guess I understand. There is a little Irish pud I like to go to sometimes just down the road from my college. I don't drink there, but I dig the environment.
:lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Wine is not good for typing.
Quote from: Phox on November 06, 2010, 03:19:38 AM
Quote from: Sir Coyote on November 06, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on November 06, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
I mean, fuck, if you haven't had government cheese you haven't been poor in the US.
I can sting words together properly that I wasn't poor. :argh!:
I assume that is poor for "string"? :lulz:
:oops:
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on November 06, 2010, 01:52:04 AM
Why is redistributing food surplus to the poor a bad thing? The US has done it for ages.
Oh, it's not a bad thing in and of itself. It just shows that the Irish government is desperate at this stage.
"Hey, we may not be able to fix the economy and get you jobs (ignore all previous comments about the "Celtic Tiger" economy. Please?) but you can have cheese on toast every day of the week!"
I think most poor Irish would prefer jobs.
It's worse then that and more complex. The current government actually have to work now, something we haven't seen in decades. While the cheese thing is a small gesture it's stuff like that that will gradually build the country up again.
I think food for the poor sounds like a good starting point... as long as it's a starting point and not a band-aid for a problem they plan to otherwise ignore.
Quote from: Nigel on November 06, 2010, 07:58:23 PM
I think food for the poor sounds like a good starting point... as long as it's a starting point and not a band-aid for a problem they plan to otherwise ignore.
They are cutting 15 billion from the budget. The automatic medical card rights of older people and people with conditions (I have asthema so this hits me) are being revoked, they are means testing everyone. College registration fees are doubling, social welfare is being cut but being completely removed for anyone under 23 (they expect people to live at home).
We have the most frightening budget we've ever had coming up. But Europe have basically said they are going to start pumping investment into the country once we can get stabilised.
We're worth too much to them politically because we still have:
Really good terms with china,
A clean political slate (comparatively),
Good education system.
Basically Ireland opens a lot of doors that are closed to England France and Germany because of our neutrality.
That and they are using us as a Patient Zero test case on how to get a country up and running again after a huge bank collapse because all the others just sort of stumbled out of it themselves.
So the IMF are going to clear irelands debt so we can actually borrow again.
This scares the shit out of me, I don't buy into the fears over losing our sovereignty but the restrictions they place on the country may make this place so unlivable that I might be forced to emigrate.
Cain, any thoughts?
Are the IMF undertaking "structural readjustment"?
If so, I'd consider leaving. The last places the IMF undertook "structural readjustment" suffered lots of riots, increased crime, lowered standards of living and life expectancy and a wider poverty gap. As indeed, it is meant to, according to former World Bank Chief Economist Joseph Stiglitz.
Also worth noting: in the 1998 Asian Economic Crisis, the only country to not listen to the IMF's advice was China. The only country to avoid a recession was....China. Probably not a coincidence, that.
Quote from: Subetai on November 26, 2010, 08:52:56 AM
Are the IMF undertaking "structural readjustment"?
If so, I'd consider leaving. The last places the IMF undertook "structural readjustment" suffered lots of riots, increased crime, lowered standards of living and life expectancy and a wider poverty gap. As indeed, it is meant to, according to former World Bank Chief Economist Joseph Stiglitz.
Also worth noting: in the 1998 Asian Economic Crisis, the only country to not listen to the IMF's advice was China. The only country to avoid a recession was....China. Probably not a coincidence, that.
So far it just looks like a massive loan, with a 5% intrest rate. But I doubt the IMF would hand over money without wanting to play with our economy.
Yeah. I'd be very surprised if the loan came without conditions attached. Relieved, but surprised.
Of course, it could be that the pre-emptive austerity budget plus Ireland's previous neoliberal model means that much of what they would demand has already been done anyway. Plus there is an election coming up, possibly...and forcing the IMF conditionals during an election process could definitely backfire, turning the IMF into a political football which various groups and individuals could then oppose in order to garner populist support, better to wait until the election is done and a new government is securely in place.
That has already started, all the parties are complaining that our government is tying the hands of any future gov by imposing the conditions the IMF would demand.
But we are due to get the money before the election.
I would love to see our gov take the money, and the next people who get in completely ignore IMF sanctions saying that was a commitment made by the previous government.
I think more nations should do that, full stop,
Unfortunately, I think there is a clause in international law which means decisions made by the state are legally binding, regardless of the government in question. I know this doesn't explain Bush suddenly abandoning laws against torture, or Sarkozy turning into Petain and deporting Gypsies despite the EU telling him not to, but at the same time, it does explain why Haiti is being made to pay off debt accumulated by Baby Doc and other similar things. The power disparity between various nations may have something to do with it, and Ireland might be able to deploy that earlier mentioned international leverage to its benefit...we shall see.
There is also the problem that, in most countries, politicians aren't really adversely affected by spending cuts anyway, so while they may make noises for electoral purposes, they really don't give a fuck when in power, and are likely to go "whoops, our hands are tied, things are much worse than we thought", exactly like the Lib Dems did five minutes after entering the coalition over here.
It is also possible that the eu could step in and say restrictions on Ireland affect the whole eu and to make the deal with them. But I can't imagine we are europes favourite country right now, I don't see them being all that helpful unless one of the IMF sanctions goes completely against some of the commitments we made to the Eu.
Which doesn't seem likely, as the EU is generally well disposed, on an ideological level, to the IMFs work.
Also, the EU can, at least, actually afford to bail out Ireland now. You're certainly going to get treated better than Spain well, if financial troubles end up flaring there.
Greece has been utterly crippled post it's bailout. But that was mostly because they lied about all their figures, embezzled and cheated everyone.
It's worrying when our best bet is another country needing a bailout after us so that the heat will be taken off us.
Well, the EU literally cannot afford a Spanish bailout. Portugal, fine, but Spain...if that house of cards comes crashing down, the EU will be in serious dire straits. Ireland, at least, is a solvable problem.