Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Cain on November 10, 2010, 09:34:19 AM

Title: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 10, 2010, 09:34:19 AM
I has it.

Ask me anything! (after 2pm, UK time, as I'm about to catch the train).

And no, I did not give Bush any of my money.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on November 10, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
Is it true he confesses to war crimes?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 10, 2010, 08:18:25 PM
Yes.  He admits to ordering torture, though of course he does not consider it torture or a war crime.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cramulus on November 10, 2010, 08:46:20 PM
any good bits about Cheney? Obama? Clinton?

any secrets we would have loved to have heard years ago?

any mention of Stewart/Colbert, the Oliver Stone movie "W", Will Ferrell's George Bush show, or any other public depictions of bush?


Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: LMNO on November 10, 2010, 08:47:53 PM
Any reasonably plausible explanations for his utterly fucked policy decisions?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: AFK on November 10, 2010, 09:06:19 PM
Does he feel validated that the Texas Rangers continue to choke without his direct involvement? 
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 10, 2010, 09:14:54 PM
Is it written in English?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 11, 2010, 01:13:49 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on November 10, 2010, 08:46:20 PM
any good bits about Cheney? Obama? Clinton?

any secrets we would have loved to have heard years ago?

any mention of Stewart/Colbert, the Oliver Stone movie "W", Will Ferrell's George Bush show, or any other public depictions of bush?

Here is a Clinton/Cheney twofer

QuoteBy the spring of 1992, it was clear who that nominee would be, Governor Bill Clinton of Arkansas. Clinton was  twenty-two  years younger  than Dad — and six weeks younger than me. The campaign marked the beginning of a generational shift  in American politics. Up  to  that point, every president since  Franklin  Roosevelt  had  served  during World War  II,  either  in  the military  or  as  commander  in  chief.  By  1992,  Baby  Boomers  and  those younger made  up  a  huge  portion  of  the  electorate.  They  were  naturally drawn  to support  someone  of  their  own  generation.  Clinton  was  smart enough to steer away from Dad's strengths in foreign policy. He recognized the economic anxiety in the country and ran on a disciplined message: "It's the economy, stupid."

I  stayed  in  close  touch  with  Dad  throughout  the  election  year.  By  the early summer of 1992,  the campaign hadn't gained traction.  I  told Dad he ought  to  think about a bold move  to  shake up  the dynamics of  the  race. One  possibility  was  to  replace  Vice President Dan Quayle, whom  I  liked and  respected,  with  a  new  running  mate.  I  suggested  to  Dad  that  he consider  Secretary  of  Defense Dick  Cheney.  Dick  was  smart,  serious, experienced, and  tough. He had done a superb  job overseeing  the military during the liberation of Panama and the Gulf War. Dad said no. He thought the move would  look desperate and embarrass Dan.  In  retrospect,  I don't
think Dad would have done better with someone else as his running mate. But I never completely gave up on my idea of a Bush-Cheney ticket.

Amusingly, just before this, he referred to Buchanan as the "far-right commentator".  Funny, given how reasonable Buchanan was versus Bush over the Iraq War.

He didn't like Clinton, as this wonderful piece of hypocrisy concerning John McCain shows:

QuoteIn  South  Carolina,  we  picked  a  new  theme  to  highlight my  bipartisan accomplishments  in  Texas:  Reformer  with  Results. We  set  up  town  hall events, where  I  fielded  questions  until  the  audience  ran  out  of  things  to ask. I worked the phones, enlisting the support of leaders across the state. Then McCain ran an ad questioning my character by comparing me to Bill Clinton.  That  crossed  a  line.  I  went  on  the  air  to  counterpunch.  The response, combined with a well-organized grassroots campaign, paid off. I won  South  Carolina  with  53  percent  of  the  vote,  took  nine  of  thirteen primaries on Super Tuesday, and rode the momentum to the nomination.

Yeah, comparing Bush to Clinton crossed a line.  Getting Rove to claim that McCain had an illegitimate black child though, well...all's fair in love and war, right?

However, he is mostly respectful of Clinton.  You may not be aware of this, but Clinton and Bush Sr are quite good friends, and it would not be good for the former Boy Emperor to cross his daddy, who could probably still kick his ass at his advanced age.

This suggests Cheney was calling the shots during the response to 9/11

QuoteOne  report  I  received  proved  true.  A  fourth  plane  had  gone  down somewhere  in  Pennsylvania.  "Did  we  shoot  it  down,  or  did  it  crash?"  I asked Dick Cheney. Nobody knew. I felt sick to my stomach. Had I ordered the death of those innocent Americans?

Dick Cheney, voice of moderation (in 2001):

QuoteDick Cheney understood the threat of Saddam Hussein and believed we had to address it. "But now is not a good time to do it," he said. "We would lose our momentum. Right now people have to choose between the United States and the bad guys."

Dick Cheney, desperate to unleash the dogs of war (2002):

QuoteFor  months,  the  National  Security  Council  had  been  meeting  almost daily to discuss Iraq. I knew where all my advisers stood. Dick Cheney was concerned  about  the  slow  diplomatic  process.  He  warned  that  Saddam Hussein  could  be  using  the  time  to  produce weapons,  hide weapons,  or plot  an  attack. At  one  of  our weekly  lunches  that winter, Dick  asked medirectly, "Are you going to take care of this guy, or not?" That was his way of  saying he  thought we had given diplomacy enough  time.  I appreciated Dick's  blunt  advice.  I  told  him  I  wasn't  ready  to  move  yet.  "Okay,  Mr. President,  it's  your  call,"  he  said.  Then  he  deployed  one  of  his  favorite lines. "That's why they pay you the big bucks," he said with a gentle smile.

Dick Cheney, voice of insanity (2006):

QuoteIsrael  made  matters  worse.  In  the  third  week  of  the conflict,  Israeli bombers destroyed an apartment complex  in  the Lebanese city  of  Qana.  Twenty-eight  civilians  were  killed,  more  than  half  of  them children.  Prime  Minister  Siniora  was  furious.  Arab  leaders  viciously condemned the bombing, the carnage of which played around the clock on Middle  Eastern TV.  I  started  to worry  that  Israel's  offensive might  topple Prime Minister Siniora's democratic government.

I called a National Security Council meeting to discuss our strategy. The disagreement  within  the  team  was  heated.  "We  need  to  let  the  Israelis finish  off  Hezbollah," Dick  Cheney  said.  "If  you  do  that,"  Condi  replied, "America will be dead  in  the Middle East." She  recommended we seek a UN  resolution  calling  for  a  ceasefire  and  deploying  a  multinational peacekeeping force.

As for Obama, he said he preferred McCain but that:

QuoteAs an Obama win looked increasingly likely, I started to think more about what it would mean for an African American to win the presidency. I got an unexpected  glimpse  a  few  days  before  the  election. An African American member of the White House residence staff brought his twin sons, age six, to  the Oval Office  for a  farewell photo. One glanced up around  the  room and blurted out, "Where's Barack Obama?"

"He's not here yet," I deadpanned.

On  election  night,  I  was moved  by  images  of  black men  and  women crying on TV. More  than one said, "I never  thought  I would  live  to see  this day."

I  called  the  president-elect  to  congratulate  him.  I  also  called  John McCain to say he was a good man who'd given the race his best shot. Both were gracious. I told the president-elect I looked forward to welcoming him to the White House.

When I hung up the phone, I said a prayer that all would be well during my  successor's  time.  I  thought  about  one  of  my  favorite presidential quotes, from a letter John Adams wrote to his wife, Abigail: "I pray Heaven to  bestow  the  best  blessings  on  this  house  and  all  that  shall  hereafter inhabit  it. May none but honest and wise men ever  rule under  this  roof." His  words  are  carved  into  the  mantel  above  the  fireplace  of  the  State Dining Room.

And

QuoteSix days after the election, I met with President-elect Obama in the Oval Office.  Barack  was  gracious  and  confident.  It  seemed  he  felt  the  same sense of wonderment I had eight years earlier when Bill Clinton welcomed me  to  the Oval Office  as  president-elect.  I  could  also  see  the  sense  of responsibility  start  to  envelop  him.  He  asked  questions  about  how  I structured my day and organized my staff. We  talked about  foreign policy, including America's relationships with China, Saudi Arabia, and other major powers. We  also  discussed  the  economy,  including  the  auto  companies' trouble.

He doesnt mention Stewart, Colbert or popular culture at all.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 11, 2010, 01:15:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on November 10, 2010, 08:47:53 PM
Any reasonably plausible explanations for his utterly fucked policy decisions?

He reported in his interview with Matt Lauer that has mother kept a fetus of a child she miscarried in a jar and showed it to him.  I think it explains a lot.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 11, 2010, 01:16:50 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on November 10, 2010, 09:06:19 PM
Does he feel validated that the Texas Rangers continue to choke without his direct involvement? 

Apparently buying the Rangers "sharpened his management skills".  This explains a lot.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 11, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on November 10, 2010, 09:14:54 PM
Is it written in English?

Edited in English, written in Engrish.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Thurnez Isa on November 12, 2010, 03:06:31 AM
is it written in crayon?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 12, 2010, 03:07:18 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on November 12, 2010, 03:06:31 AM
is it written in crayon?

:potd:
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: E.O.T. on November 12, 2010, 04:02:25 AM


WAS IT

          dick-tated?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Salty on November 12, 2010, 04:12:37 AM
Does he mention keeping the smooth-running machine that is the US economy in perfect condition only to watch in horror as Obama destroyed it in a single blow?
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Disco Pickle on November 12, 2010, 04:32:22 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on November 12, 2010, 03:06:31 AM
is it written in crayon?

god damnit that was awesome.

If I had been attempting to drink a beverage when I read this it would have looked like that one picture of someone spitting out whatever it was they were drinking.
Quote from: E.O.T. on November 12, 2010, 04:02:25 AM


WAS IT

          dick-tated?

honerable mention..  no current emote for that im afraid.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Iason Ouabache on November 12, 2010, 06:16:09 AM
Quote from: Subetai on November 11, 2010, 01:13:49 PM
Vice President Dan Quayle, whom  I  liked and  respected...
:facepalm:


Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2010, 04:12:37 AM
Does he mention keeping the smooth-running machine that is the US economy in perfect condition only to watch in horror as Obama destroyed it in a single blow?

:teabagger1:
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 12, 2010, 07:48:57 AM
Actually, he is very respectful of Obama.  To the point that he has said if he was allowed to endorse Obama over McCain, he would have.

Hmm, funny that.  Bush I and Clinton both buddies.  Bush II and Obama on friendly and respectful terms with each other.  It's almost like all the partisan posturing the parties engage in is designed for the camera and to play to particular audiences...
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: AFK on November 12, 2010, 01:44:03 PM
Put the politics and policies aside.  Which may not be super realistic.  But I actually think that GWB is probably a fairly decent guy.  I'm just talking purely on the level of the old cliche "someone you could have a beer with". 

I think he had the same problem Obama is having now.  Letting their uncertainty become a liability as they cede decision making to others.  I think, maybe, if GWB would've had more stones, maybe he would've stood down all of the hawks surrounding him.  Same with Obama, maybe if he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of wishy-washy capitulators, we would've had the public option for health care reform. 

Or maybe I'm giving both way more benefit of the doubt than they deserve.  Entirely possible. 
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 12, 2010, 01:46:11 PM
I think it is perfect evidence that the worst excesses of human nature can easily be replicated in someone who is probably a nice guy you wouldn't mind having a few drinks with.

And that would be a worrying conclusion, if I hadn't already come to it several years ago.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: AFK on November 12, 2010, 01:57:28 PM
Yep, especially considering those Presidents who are generally looked upon as Great Presidents were definitely not choir-boys.  Or in the case of someone like Lincoln, just plain strange. 
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: LMNO on November 12, 2010, 02:49:02 PM
I've always found the 'W is someone I can have a beer with' to be amusing, since he's an admitted alcoholic...
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 12, 2010, 06:36:12 PM
I think that a lot of humans are cool in the "have a beer with" way... its just once they get with a bunch of other people that share some kind of dogma that everything goes to shit.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on November 13, 2010, 12:19:33 AM
http://twitter.com/jasonpinter/statuses/2775272881393664
QuoteHefty first day book sales: Diary of a Wimpy Kid #5: 375,000 copies. George W. Bush's Decision Points: 220,000 (including ebooks).
:lulz:
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 13, 2010, 12:03:50 PM
Bush's book is oddly slim, as well.  You have to think, this is not just about his Presidency, but his entire life.  And it only runs to 350 pages on my laptop.  And because of the way it is formatted, it is closer to 300 pages.

By contrast, the biography of the Soviet Ambassodor to the United States, which I also own in ebook format, is nearly 900 pages long.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: AFK on November 15, 2010, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on November 13, 2010, 12:19:33 AM
http://twitter.com/jasonpinter/statuses/2775272881393664
QuoteHefty first day book sales: Diary of a Wimpy Kid #5: 375,000 copies. George W. Bush's Decision Points: 220,000 (including ebooks).
:lulz:

Wait.  Those aren't the same book?

:rimshot:

C'mon people, that joke practically writes itself. 
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: The Johnny on November 15, 2010, 06:59:46 PM
Quote from: Subetai on November 13, 2010, 12:03:50 PM
Bush's book is oddly slim, as well.  You have to think, this is not just about his Presidency, but his entire life.  And it only runs to 350 pages on my laptop.  And because of the way it is formatted, it is closer to 300 pages.

By contrast, the biography of the Soviet Ambassodor to the United States, which I also own in ebook format, is nearly 900 pages long.

How long did he serve? And how many useless and uninteresting stories/facts included?

Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 16, 2010, 12:25:24 PM
Admittedly, he served for most of the Cold War.  But he mostly discusses actual Soviet policy and what the Soviets thought and what he thought and what the Americans thought and how he tried to balance all that without inadvertantly blowing the world up.

So probably a bad example.

However, Tony Blair's bio runs to 480 pages, and while Blair served two more years than Bush as a head of state, his life before politics is mostly very boring and of no interest to anyone, including Blair himself.  Of course, credit to Bush, he did not include cringingly bad sex scenes with his wife in Decision Points, unlike Blair did with his biography.

Bush just seems to lack any real attention to detail.  He covers vastly important topics, like the breach in opinion between the State Department, the Office of Vice-President and the Pentagon over Iraq, in two or three sentences.  It's like he is writing an essay for University, a general overview of What I Did During My Presidency.  There is very little introspection or curiousity displayed.  Other insider accounts are far superior to this.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 17, 2010, 12:38:43 PM
There wasn't much to spoil.  Scott McClellan's book is much superior in telling embarassing facts, and Douglas Feith's book is much more insane.
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: The Johnny on November 17, 2010, 11:52:22 PM

Im not sure how to phrase it or convey it but...

Based on his writing style, can you "feel" his stupidity? The glossing over major issues is along the lines of willfull obfuscation, or is it merely his lack of capacity to express discourse over a concrete thinking level?

For further reference, this is what i mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development#Concrete_operational_stage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development#Concrete_operational_stage)
Title: Re: DECISION POINTS BY GEORGE WALKER BUSH
Post by: Cain on November 18, 2010, 06:54:56 PM
Its hard to say.  He doesn't seem obviously stupid, but it's entirely possible his stupidity stems from not looking into things too closely.

Of course, there being a ghost writer involved doesnt help matters either.