A Christian group called The Council of Conservative Citizens is boycotting Marvel's upcoming movie Thor -- not for the reason I would have expected, that it celebrates or promotes paganism -- but because "the God Heimdall is played by a black man."
http://cofcc.org/2010/12/marvel-studios-turns-norse-god-black/
http://cofcc.org/2010/12/worstpreviews-com-cofcc-reason-angry/
http://cofcc.org/2010/12/marval-studios-declares-war-on-norse-mythology/
The online campaign to boycott Thor by Marvel Studios has begun. Visit Boycott-Thor.com
(http://www.worstpreviews.com/images/headlines/headline18684.jpg)
OH NOEZ!
ETA: I was wondering why a Christian group would give a rat's ass if someone declared war on a pagan mythology, until I read their "statement of principles" and then understood where they were coming from, that they see it as a left-wing attack on the white man's heritage. :roll:
Yeah, I heard about this too, and also had a "WTF" moment until I realized exactly what was going on.
Probably best not to tell these guys that Viking religion descends, in all likelihood, from the Proto-Indo-European peoples of Central Asia or India, either.
Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2010, 03:14:52 PM
Yeah, I heard about this too, and also had a "WTF" moment until I realized exactly what was going on.
Probably best not to tell these guys that Viking religion descends, in all likelihood, from the Proto-Indo-European peoples of Central Asia or India, either.
Or that they themselves descend from those same people.
One Horrible Truth at a time.
WTF. Head will not wrap around why people are offended.
I was going to type something longer and pithier but . . . I'll just leave it at people are retarded.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 18, 2010, 05:15:13 PM
I was going to type something longer and pithier but . . . I'll just leave it at people are retarded.
This.
Christianity was a left wing attack on the white mans heritage if you want to get technical.
In fact it was created by a jew.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on December 18, 2010, 05:32:55 PM
Christianity was a left wing attack on the white mans heritage if you want to get technical.
In fact it was created by a jew.
That is the line generally used by National Socialist sorts. I've actually had that conversation with them before.
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
I just looked him up and he is actually called "The whitest of the aesir" in the Edda. :lulz:
It's a Marvel wink to
Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where
QuoteHeimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.
These are Marvel characters. So I don't care who they choose to play their characters. (http://i54.tinypic.com/f6rnn.gif)
Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2010, 08:00:45 PM
It's a Marvel wink to Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where
QuoteHeimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.
Heh, OK. I am not a comic book geek at all, so I have no business in this arena.
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
^This
9000+
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
Not a historical/Norse mythology movie. Otherwise I agree.
Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2010, 08:00:45 PM
It's a Marvel wink to Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where
QuoteHeimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.
This.
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
I agree largely, but this is hardly the only problem with marvel version of Norse myth. If they're going to take complaint with the wrong ethnicity, but ignore that the entire rest of the movie has even less to do with Norse myth than the Disney version of Hercules had to do with Greek myth, then it seems that they have some strange priorities.
Yeah, if this were set in a historic Norse period, I might see a 'suspension of disbelief' problem.
In a modern Supers setting, where the character was portrayed in previous source material (the comics, not the sagas!) as a shapeshifter (I had already considered this, thanks for finding the reference Cain), this is a non-issue.
Oh, here's my comments from FB when this came up.
QuoteI admit it... flies in contrast to the "whitest Aesir" nickname, hvítastr ása. But it totally plays into the "adopted son of Odin" shtick.... Also, in the tradition of /kenning/ (which I recently discovered), hvítastr ása might be a euphemism for "Shining one", or even a sarcastically given honor-title. Further, if Heimdall's connections with Ram symbolism holds true, the "black sheep" puns start rolling in.
Is it bad that RWHN's avatar popped into my mind when I realized the pun potential at the end there?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 18, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
I agree largely, but this is hardly the only problem with marvel version of Norse myth. If they're going to take complaint with the wrong ethnicity, but ignore that the entire rest of the movie has even less to do with Norse myth than the Disney version of Hercules had to do with Greek myth, then it seems that they have some strange priorities.
Like I said to Cain:
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2010, 08:00:45 PM
It's a Marvel wink to Thor: Mighty Avenger #6, where
QuoteHeimdall, much like his Marvel Universe incarnation, appears as the guard of the Bifrost bridge, sports a goatee and wears a horned helmet that casts his eyes in shadows. Unlike the Marvel Universe version, however, this Heimdall is black, a shapeshifter (taking the forms of Surtur and Fin Fang Foom) and a clear superior to Thor in combat.
Heh, OK. I am not a comic book geek at all, so I have no business in this arena.
I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man!
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters. (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
THANK YOU
how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.
NOW,
Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.
Who would play Churchill?
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 12:18:16 AM
I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man!
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters. (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.
Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist. The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 19, 2010, 03:39:03 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 12:18:16 AM
I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man!
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters. (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.
Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist. The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.
THAT SAID
, marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.
Quote from: E.O.T. on December 19, 2010, 03:21:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
THANK YOU
how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.
NOW,
Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.
Don't mean to be inanely pedantic here, but I'm sure it was Sean Connery as Ghengis Khan.
Charlton Heston as Moses, (also as God himself, I believe) And Robert Powell as the definitive Jesus Christ.
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 04:00:08 AM
Quote from: E.O.T. on December 19, 2010, 03:21:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel on December 18, 2010, 07:56:11 PM
Am I really the only person besides a pack of retard fundies who thinks it's stupid to represent a people's god as being a dude from a completely different tribe of people? It's very much like making a movie about Ifa and having Robin Williams play Ogun, or having a woman play the role of Jesus.
Not worth forming an organized boycott over, but still, not only culturally and historically wrong but it also seems deliberately disrespectful. I mean, after all the years of protesting that American indians have done to get Hollywood to cast indians in roles portraying indians, it would be pretty hypocritical of me not to recognize that casting a black man in the role of a european god of white-skinned people is a blatant appeal to the PC left, unless there is some historical evidence that Heimdall was once depicted with dark skin. (There are cross-racial deities in some religions, so it's not completely unheard of.)
THANK YOU
how about Jack Black as MLK. No problem. Christina Ricci as Malcolm X. makes perfect sense to me.
Chuck Norris as Genghis Khan. seamless.
NOW,
Oprah as Hitler. that's what i'm talking about.
Don't mean to be inanely pedantic here, but I'm sure it was Sean Connery as Ghengis Khan.
Charlton Heston as Moses, (also as God himself, I believe) And Robert Powell as the definitive Jesus Christ.
YOU MAY BE
but Sean Connery can do anything. Charlton Heston was just an epic mistake gone mad. and if robert powell hadn't played jesus, it would have been Agha Ali. and even given these things, "jews" and "whites" somewhat look similar. and remember, hollywood can only work with 15 actors and actresses at a time.
Quote from: E.O.T. on December 19, 2010, 03:57:08 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 19, 2010, 03:39:03 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 12:18:16 AM
I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man!
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters. (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.
Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist. The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.
THAT SAID
, marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.
Fleetway's 2000AD has been fielding Mutants, Ethnic Minorities, Transvestite Robots, Gay Exorcists, Crippled Spacemen, Pagan Sun Kings, Dwarves, Albinos, and even Women, all alongside the Totalitarian yet dispassionately and consistently fair contradiction that is Judge Dredd, since about 1977. And not as concession characters either, but it's mainstay. So Borag Thung, Earthling! (jus' sayin) :D
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 04:09:00 AM
Quote from: E.O.T. on December 19, 2010, 03:57:08 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 19, 2010, 03:39:03 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on December 19, 2010, 12:18:16 AM
I seem to remember in a similar cultural dilemma in DC Comics, many years ago, I think it was in a Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover special, (When Swampy was being hunted by the Parliament of Trees) and it was revealed that the African Elemental Guardian of the Green (Or some such bunkum) "Bwana Beast" when he took his Helmet off, was actually *Gasp* a white man!
I think it was the one where there was a City of Great Apes, calling a "Dum Dum" of all the Apes, (Even Magilla Gorilla was there) and Swampy was drawn in on the Green, as were many other minor DC Characters. (Like Animal Man and Bwana Beast) Pretty sure it was Alan Moore who wrote it too.
Pre 90s DC is hilariously racist. The best is one of the minor comics had a 'Japanese' guy with white skin and red-brown hair.
THAT SAID
, marvel comics, under the helm of STAN the man still remains to be way ahead of all things irl. Powerful and key roles were(are) given to youth, women, non-"whites", physically disabled, "short" people and even canadians. hell, even mutants.
Fleetway's 2000AD has been fielding Mutants, Ethnic Minorities, Transvestite Robots, Gay Exorcists, Crippled Spacemen, Pagan Sun Kings, Dwarves, Albinos, and even Women, all alongside the Totalitarian yet dispassionately and consistently fair contradiction that is Judge Dredd, since about 1977. And not as concession characters either, but it's mainstay. So Borag Thung, Earthling! (jus' sayin) :D
YES
but i'm talking about the titles he started in the early & mid nineteen sixty's. which are still progressive. 2000ad is more science fictiony in general, which always breaks all the rules, and fleetway was only possible because of its predecessors.
POINT BEING
popular culture, and comics have always been centric/ racist (i.e. requia's DC example) and Heimdall being black may actually be absurd and a deliberate reaction to the decades of stuff like "men at war" - but stan's creations are just simply way ahead of their time.
Sure look at the xmen they started as an analog for black peoples struggle and evolved into being all those who are persecuted that's going back to the fifties or sixties. Kirby and Lee were very progressive for thief time.
I'd argue that a proper actor should be able to play any role regardless of race or gender (Hellen mirriam is playing the wizard prospero in the new tempest.
That being said marvel don't hire actors they hire stars, so maybe that's not applicable.
I'm relieved that the title of the thread does not involve Valrhona.
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on December 19, 2010, 11:00:40 AM
I'm relieved that the title of the thread does not involve Valrhona.
No Negroes in the chocolate factory?
Quote from: Cain on December 19, 2010, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on December 19, 2010, 11:00:40 AM
I'm relieved that the title of the thread does not involve Valrhona.
No Negroes in the chocolate factory?
I was thinking more Soylent Valrhona...
:lulz:
Quote from: Cain on December 19, 2010, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on December 19, 2010, 11:00:40 AM
I'm relieved that the title of the thread does not involve Valrhona.
No Negroes in the chocolate factory?
Might be able to arrange some Oompa Loompas.
Quote from: Faust on December 19, 2010, 10:50:01 AM
Sure look at the xmen they started as an analog for black peoples struggle and evolved into being all those who are persecuted that's going back to the fifties or sixties. Kirby and Lee were very progressive for thief time.
I'd argue that a proper actor should be able to play any role regardless of race or gender (Hellen mirriam is playing the wizard prospero in the new tempest.
That being said marvel don't hire actors they hire stars, so maybe that's not applicable.
I'm hoping Tom Hanks and Glenn Close play me in the movie.
Quote from: Telarus on December 18, 2010, 09:48:36 PM
Is it bad that RWHN's avatar popped into my mind when I realized the pun potential at the end there?
Bad for you maybe, but good for me. Means I'm doing it right. :mrgreen: