AZ senator, she was a friend of a friend of mine which is the only reason I know this has happened.
This is the only link I have found so far.
http://www.mediaite.com/top-story/report-rep-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-head-at-town-hall-in-arizona/
Anyone know why this happened? Political motivations I assume.
Fucking hell.
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona
They have the guy, so hopefully we'll know soon.
I'd about bet money on it being a Tea Partier. I'd almost rather it was a jilted lover or stalker, though, just because the ramifications of political violence toward local representatives is horrific.
Son of a Bitch.
Could be a drug cartel.
Is it bad that I wish for at least one political assassination where, upon questioning, the assassin will only give their motivation as "BOOM, HEADSHOT!"
Quote from: Cain on January 08, 2011, 06:58:10 PM
Is it bad that I wish for at least one political assassination where, upon questioning, the assassin will only give their motivation as "BOOM, HEADSHOT!"
No, not at all :)
Quote from: Cain on January 08, 2011, 06:58:10 PM
Is it bad that I wish for at least one political assassination where, upon questioning, the assassin will only give their motivation as "BOOM, HEADSHOT!"
nope. except the anti-video game crowd would have a field day using it to prove video games are the cause of violence here.
Gifford and six others are dead. She was pro-immigration. It seems unlikely that this was anything other than political.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on January 08, 2011, 06:35:22 PM
AZ senator, she was a friend of a friend of mine which is the only reason I know this has happened.
This is the only link I have found so far.
http://www.mediaite.com/top-story/report-rep-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-head-at-town-hall-in-arizona/
Anyone know why this happened? Political motivations I assume.
AZ representative, not senator.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20110108/congresswoman-giffords-shot-arizona-110108/
There's your Tea Party America. Fucking brownshirts.
They're already trying to blame it on "some Mexican", of course.
Quote from: Nigel on January 08, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Gifford and six others are dead. She was pro-immigration. It seems unlikely that this was anything other than political.
I've only heard of one other death so far.
But good luck getting anyone to a democrat rally any time soon. Which was, of course, the point. The fact that they got Giffords was just a bonus.
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html
QuoteGiffords was also one of the lawmakers Sarah Palin "set her sights on" in the Palin PAC infographic below (takebackthe20.com). The congresswoman and others are targeted with simulated gun sights on a map of the United States.
(http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/sarahpac_0.jpg)
Turns out she may be alive.
Oh boy. I wonder if this poster can be used to make a case that Palin is inciting people to violence.
6 dead, Giffords last known to be in surgery in critical condition with a head wound.
That rally was 2 miles from my house. My father had planned to attend, but overslept.
Another of the dead is allegedly a Federal judge, according to MSNBC.
Incidentally, if it turns out this was a politically motivated hit, it will be the second tragic assassination (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/08/ahmed-rashid-taseer-pakistan-precipice) this week. Pakistan's situation is more dire, but there are certain parallels, if the assassin was doing this for the reasons we all suspect.
http://www.9wsyr.com/mostpopular/story/Update-Arizona-gunman-identified/Bhz427GsjU6v5TdxDyq3BQ.cspx
Name of the shooter may be Jared Laughner.
The judge who died was John Roll. He and his family received death threats in 2009 for allowing a lawsuit by illegal immigrants, fueled by talk-radio hosts.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-wJ1FkcqFPMJ:judgepedia.org/index.php/John_Roll+John+Roll&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari
FOX News is claiming this is Mexico Cartel related violence, which sounds like bullshit.
A second suspect is reported to have been arrested, a third is being sought, according to journalist Twitter feeds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uRjwPWaxiY A video uploaded by someone called Jared Lee Loughner, an Afghan war veteran, who FOX thinks may be the shooter.
Last I heard was that 6 people are dead including the US judge and a 9 year old. Twitter is going hard and heavy on this, naturally. Cain's covered the interesting links.
It's been really interesting to see how people have reacted to this so far. Lots of people lashing out at Palin and the Tea Baggers. Lots of gun control talk around. No one has blamed it on religion yet, but I'm sure that will be around the corner. Events like this make for interesting political Rorschach tests.
Sigh.
When you're white, it's not called terrorism.
Motherfuck. CNN just said she just came out of surgery and it looks like she's going to recover. What is wrong with this country?
Quote from: Sigmatic on January 08, 2011, 10:29:52 PM
Sigh.
When you're white, it's not called terrorism.
Laughner proclaims himself a terrorist in his youtube videos (not the one Cain linked, but the "Introduction" one)
I am really glad to hear she's stable, She's a close friend of a close friend of mine who's been pretty deeply affected by this.
From the shooters youtube page:
QuoteBooks:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
C,WAA
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 08, 2011, 11:45:14 PM
From the shooters youtube page:
QuoteBooks:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
I've read most of those books. We The Living, Mein Kampf, and the Communist Manifesto wouldn't be on my list of favorites though, but then neither would the majority of the rest.
To offer a counterpoint:
QuoteBooks:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
ETA: Quote fixt.
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 09, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
And even more strange that they appear on the same list as the ones I've highlighted. Or not.
Quote from: Igor on January 08, 2011, 07:52:05 PM
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/congresswoman-gabrie.html
QuoteGiffords was also one of the lawmakers Sarah Palin "set her sights on" in the Palin PAC infographic below (takebackthe20.com). The congresswoman and others are targeted with simulated gun sights on a map of the United States.
(http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/08/sarahpac_0.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-warmowski/following-giffords-shooti_b_806248.html
Following Giffords Shooting, Sarah Palin's Crosshairs Website Quickly Scrubbed From Internet
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 09, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
And even more strange that they appear on the same list as the ones I've highlighted. Or not.
The thing is hes given enough material for both left and right wing pundits to jump on and claim "He read Rand/Marx hes a conservative/liberal nutjob!"
When in reality he appears to have just been a plain old nut job.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 12:46:58 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 09, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
And even more strange that they appear on the same list as the ones I've highlighted. Or not.
The thing is hes given enough material for both left and right wing pundits to jump on and claim "He read Rand/Marx hes a conservative/liberal nutjob!"
When in reality he appears to have just been a plain old nut job.
Exactly. Thing is, there was some forensic psychiatrist doing a phone interview with CNN saying something about how because of the way the shooting was carried out this guy obviously had some mental disorder, oh, yeah, and he read Mein Kampf.
Wut?
Maybe he hates moderates?
That seems to be the implication. :lol:
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
They havent said it for sure, but they are currently in pursuit of a man who they believe may have been involved.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 02:01:34 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
They havent said it for sure, but they are currently in pursuit of a man who they believe may have been involved.
Yeah, that guy was full of shit anyway. He was insisting that this guy was mentally ill based on, what a few hours of looking at his youtube videos? He was arrogant to the point of pretentiousness, and insistent that the guy was acting alone. Listening to him for five minutes is what prompted me to turn off the television, honestly.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Nonsense, there were expelled rounds on the grassy knoll.
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 02:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Nonsense, there were expelled rounds on the grassy knoll.
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Because its a case of violence being used to alter the political landscape. It's far more serious than a regular attack.
http://www.youtube.com/user/K1NGKULL#p/u/1/7gAU550GlLQ
A secondary youtube account.
This one seems more "crazy".
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 02:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Nonsense, there were expelled rounds on the grassy knoll.
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Like Roger said, it's a terrorist act.
Also, there were quite a few people shot, not just Mrs. Gifford.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 08, 2011, 07:48:51 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 08, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Gifford and six others are dead. She was pro-immigration. It seems unlikely that this was anything other than political.
I've only heard of one other death so far.
But good luck getting anyone to a democrat rally any time soon. Which was, of course, the point. The fact that they got Giffords was just a bonus.
NPR reported that she and six others were dead... then an hour later I heard that she was alive, and two others were dead.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 09, 2011, 02:58:37 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 02:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Nonsense, there were expelled rounds on the grassy knoll.
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Because its a case of violence being used to alter the political landscape. It's far more serious than a regular attack.
I am not convinced.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 04:13:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 09, 2011, 02:58:37 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 02:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
Nonsense, there were expelled rounds on the grassy knoll.
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Because its a case of violence being used to alter the political landscape. It's far more serious than a regular attack.
I am not convinced.
Busting up political rallies is a classic fascist tactic. Getting an unbalanced freak to do it is just slightly more clever.
I will consider this, but not on board yet.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#40983401
Keith Olbermann being suprisingly level headed.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 04:20:53 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#40983401
Keith Olbermann being suprisingly level headed.
... You know, I wish Cory Doctorow would hurry up and conquer the world, so I could give all my whuffie to Olberman.
Whuffie?
Barney Franks did an interview on MSNBC stating outright that while security is important, terrorist acts shouldn't shape what people do. Shocking to hear that much sense.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 02:40:03 AM
Why is this so much more important than a cop getting shot, of a mother or a father?
Because all victims are equal, but some victims are more equal than others :fnord:
Political violence is nothing new, and this is just the latest expression of it. Debate is much simpler when you kill your opponents, you get to win the argument by the simple expedient of replacing 1-person 1-vote with 1-bullet 1-vote, the ammo box speaks louder than the ballot box.
It may well turn out that the shooter is some delusional loner, sitting at home with his twisted logic and right-man complex. And whilst people of the Left and Right argue
ad infinitum on the web about his political affiliation the truth (if we can ever get close to it) may be that he created his own fantasy world, lost his connection with other people, and that this is a result partly of our increasing isolation from each other as a society and as human beings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO7tGOr2NU0
Old Bob seems to have this down.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 09, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
There's a political party in Russia (if it's most current incarnation hasn't been banned) called the National Bolsheviks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism) who would be quite down with the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf on the same booklist.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 04:18:21 AM
I will consider this, but not on board yet.
It's quite simple. If his act was politically motivated, how would you feel, if you were a card carrying and outspoken member of the Democrats in Tuscon? I know if I was a public figure, I'd be looking at beefing up my security.
Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. When you attack a political figure for their convictions, you not only attack them but are also attempting to intimidate everyone of a similar persuasion. You are using them as an example to frighten the rest. Thus terrorism, in it's most classic and pure form.
If this was a politically motivated crime. But I'd be very surprised if it was not.
Quote from: Cain on January 09, 2011, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 09, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
The three of those on the same list is pretty strange, moreso than when taken alone.
There's a political party in Russia (if it's most current incarnation hasn't been banned) called the National Bolsheviks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism) who would be quite down with the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf on the same booklist.
What confuses me is "We the Living" and "Animal Farm"
Quote from: Cain on January 09, 2011, 03:30:10 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 04:18:21 AM
I will consider this, but not on board yet.
It's quite simple. If his act was politically motivated, how would you feel, if you were a card carrying and outspoken member of the Democrats in Tuscon? I know if I was a public figure, I'd be looking at beefing up my security.
Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter. When you attack a political figure for their convictions, you not only attack them but are also attempting to intimidate everyone of a similar persuasion. You are using them as an example to frighten the rest. Thus terrorism, in it's most classic and pure form.
If this was a politically motivated crime. But I'd be very surprised if it was not.
I think we all see it being politically motivated. However, unless it turns out to be part of an organized group the terrorist is behind bars so the threat is gone. Humans doing stupid shit is nothing new.
Unless mentally ill, which is a rarity in and of itself, terrorists do not spring out of nowhere. They are a product of the political environment in which they are situated. There have been a number of violent attacks against minorities and liberal targets within America within the past few years, like the Glen Beck fan who shot up a Unitarian Church, or the Freerepublic poster who killed a guard at the Holocaust Memorial museum. The judge who died recieved a number of death threats because he allowed illegal immigrants to file a lawsuit and rightwing radio stations kicked up a storm over it and encouraged the hysterial reaction. There has been steady talk for years blaming every kind of imaginable and overblown ill on "the liberals" and equating liberal politicians and their supporters as traitors, fifth columnists and terrorist kissers. Every time a "lone nut" like this gets slapped down, another ten take his place because no-one is interested in dealing with the root causes of terrorism, it's so much easier to play to the crowd and use it for short-term political gain.
I know if I lived in the current political climate in America, I would refuse to be drawn on political talk with strangers, invest in decent home security and practice with a gun frequently.
Quote from: Cain on January 09, 2011, 04:38:40 PM
Unless mentally ill, which is a rarity in and of itself, terrorists do not spring out of nowhere. They are a product of the political environment in which they are situated. There have been a number of violent attacks against minorities and liberal targets within America within the past few years, like the Glen Beck fan who shot up a Unitarian Church, or the Freerepublic poster who killed a guard at the Holocaust Memorial museum. The judge who died recieved a number of death threats because he allowed illegal immigrants to file a lawsuit and rightwing radio stations kicked up a storm over it and encouraged the hysterial reaction. There has been steady talk for years blaming every kind of imaginable and overblown ill on "the liberals" and equating liberal politicians and their supporters as traitors, fifth columnists and terrorist kissers. Every time a "lone nut" like this gets slapped down, another ten take his place because no-one is interested in dealing with the root causes of terrorism, it's so much easier to play to the crowd and use it for short-term political gain.
I know if I lived in the current political climate in America, I would refuse to be drawn on political talk with strangers, invest in decent home security and practice with a gun frequently.
Okay, now I begin to see the issue. Damn my clouded thinking.
(http://i55.tinypic.com/160o848.jpg)
Oh boy, here we go.
Link please.
Oh, that isn't going anywhere good. If they follow through on this I would not be surprised if someone decided to open fire on them, perpetuating and escalating the cycle of violence.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 09, 2011, 05:07:27 PM
Link please.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html
Ofuck. America over.
Come on folks, a sense of proportion please.
WBC is a small group of extremists, basically a large family, that picket US service personnel funerals and basically spend their lives acting like complete douche bags. They love getting taken to court, they love being hated. I sent a donation to the Patriot Guard Riders a couple of years back so they could buy some gas and ride out to funerals and blockade the WBC nutters.
Whilst repugnant the WBC hardly seems to be representative of anything other than the narrowest of narrow minded hate mentality. They cower behind the First Amendment. Here in the UK they would be prevented from publishing such vitriol because of our 'incitement' laws, which try and balance the right to free speech with the responsibility to not shout fire in a crowded room.
I doubt Robert Anton Wilson would be surprised by that reading list. Reading only that which reinforces your prejudices, and failing to take in other viewpoints, is a recipe for closed mindedness. Unfortunately in this case it seems that the individual was working with a faulty processor, and rather than getting clarity was instead locked into a fucked up ego fueled delusion. The media pundits and rent-a-expert will fill the airwaves with psychoanalysis for months to come.
Remember that Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley all navigated the labyrinth of Chapel Perilous. Dick received a cosmic message and produced the Exegesis, VALIS etc; RAW became an ultra-agnostic; and Thornley went from seeing everyone as a friend to fearing everyone as an enemy.
Quote from: Cain on January 09, 2011, 04:38:40 PM
Unless mentally ill, which is a rarity in and of itself, terrorists do not spring out of nowhere. They are a product of the political environment in which they are situated. There have been a number of violent attacks against minorities and liberal targets within America within the past few years, like the Glen Beck fan who shot up a Unitarian Church, or the Freerepublic poster who killed a guard at the Holocaust Memorial museum. The judge who died recieved a number of death threats because he allowed illegal immigrants to file a lawsuit and rightwing radio stations kicked up a storm over it and encouraged the hysterial reaction. There has been steady talk for years blaming every kind of imaginable and overblown ill on "the liberals" and equating liberal politicians and their supporters as traitors, fifth columnists and terrorist kissers. Every time a "lone nut" like this gets slapped down, another ten take his place because no-one is interested in dealing with the root causes of terrorism, it's so much easier to play to the crowd and use it for short-term political gain.
I know if I lived in the current political climate in America, I would refuse to be drawn on political talk with strangers, invest in decent home security and practice with a gun frequently.
Judging by his youtube this guy certainly seems mentally ill. However even the mentally ill are influenced by their environments.
Every time I see the WBC acting up, I always try to tell myself that they're just trolling us. :horrormirth:
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 09, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Come on folks, a sense of proportion please.
WBC is a small group of extremists, basically a large family, that picket US service personnel funerals and basically spend their lives acting like complete douche bags. They love getting taken to court, they love being hated. I sent a donation to the Patriot Guard Riders a couple of years back so they could buy some gas and ride out to funerals and blockade the WBC nutters.
Whilst repugnant the WBC hardly seems to be representative of anything other than the narrowest of narrow minded hate mentality. They cower behind the First Amendment. Here in the UK they would be prevented from publishing such vitriol because of our 'incitement' laws, which try and balance the right to free speech with the responsibility to not shout fire in a crowded room.
I doubt Robert Anton Wilson would be surprised by that reading list. Reading only that which reinforces your prejudices, and failing to take in other viewpoints, is a recipe for closed mindedness. Unfortunately in this case it seems that the individual was working with a faulty processor, and rather than getting clarity was instead locked into a fucked up ego fueled delusion. The media pundits and rent-a-expert will fill the airwaves with psychoanalysis for months to come.
Remember that Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley all navigated the labyrinth of Chapel Perilous. Dick received a cosmic message and produced the Exegesis, VALIS etc; RAW became an ultra-agnostic; and Thornley went from seeing everyone as a friend to fearing everyone as an enemy.
Thing is, approximately 60% of the churches in the area I live ascribe to the same set of beliefs as the WBC yahoos. They just keep it in their vile little chapels, until they find out you don't agree with them. So... yeah.
And the second half of your speech is, erm... confusing. To be blunt: What's your point?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 12:11:17 AM
To offer a counterpoint:
QuoteBooks:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
ETA: Quote fixt.
Guess MKu dropped catcher and the rye from their zombie's reading list
Quote from: Suu on January 09, 2011, 08:24:18 PM
Every time I see the WBC acting up, I always try to tell myself that they're just trolling us. :horrormirth:
It's actually hard for me to believe that they're not trolling. I just can't quite wrap my brain around it.
I've been keeping up with this through this collection of links.
http://thedailywh.at/post/2670544452/arizona-shooting-news-round-up-university
Project GabbyGASM: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=27979.0
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
They can't roll with the "Lone Nut" scenario if there was a partner. Otherwise it would have to be, . . . .erm, Political, and they don't want to have to examine her Politics too closely, or she'll end up a Martyr for all those "Civil Rights" Lunatics. Can't have that, so they'll go with "Lone Nut". And it is Tuscon, after all.
The only thing I can compare that with that happened here recently, was when some LibDem MP was attacked in his office, by someone with a Samurai sword. Who'd already chopped his secretary into bits on his way in. But that wasn't Political, that was a "Lone Nut" too. It's hardly ever to do with Politics, it seems. At least, not for Politicians.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 09, 2011, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 09, 2011, 01:51:27 AM
According to the sheriff they think he had an accomplice.
IMPOSSIBLE! THE FORENSICY GUY SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY HE WOULD HAVE A PARTNER! AND HE'S AN EXPERT!
They can't roll with the "Lone Nut" scenario if there was a partner. Otherwise it would have to be, . . . .erm, Political, and they don't want to have to examine her Politics too closely, or she'll end up a Martyr for all those "Civil Rights" Lunatics. Can't have that, so they'll go with "Lone Nut". And it is Tuscon, after all.
The only thing I can compare that with that happened here recently, was when some LibDem MP was attacked in his office, by someone with a Samurai sword. Who'd already chopped his secretary into bits on his way in. But that wasn't Political, that was a "Lone Nut" too. It's hardly ever to do with Politics, it seems. At least, not for Politicians.
The fact that the forensics guy was so quickly willing to make sweeping statements about the guy's mental health, and denounce the possibility of an accomplice, just screams "shill".
...well, now we have our "Second Amendment Solution" (http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/is-a--second-amendment-solution--so-silly--97921624.html) that the Tea Partiers rallied to with such fervor. Cain's point about the shepherd and the sheep is spot-on, and it's lovely to watch the George Wills of the talking bobbleheads blame the Jon Stewarts (http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/roundtable-tragedy-tucson-roundtable-shooting-12575675) for this sort of uh polemic tragedy.
Quote from: Nigel on January 09, 2011, 10:26:59 PM
The fact that the forensics guy was so quickly willing to make sweeping statements about the guy's mental health, and denounce the possibility of an accomplice, just screams "shill".
That was exactly what I thought when he was talking.
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 09, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Come on folks, a sense of proportion please.
WBC is a small group of extremists, basically a large family, that picket US service personnel funerals and basically spend their lives acting like complete douche bags. They love getting taken to court, they love being hated. I sent a donation to the Patriot Guard Riders a couple of years back so they could buy some gas and ride out to funerals and blockade the WBC nutters.
Whilst repugnant the WBC hardly seems to be representative of anything other than the narrowest of narrow minded hate mentality. They cower behind the First Amendment. Here in the UK they would be prevented from publishing such vitriol because of our 'incitement' laws, which try and balance the right to free speech with the responsibility to not shout fire in a crowded room.
I doubt Robert Anton Wilson would be surprised by that reading list. Reading only that which reinforces your prejudices, and failing to take in other viewpoints, is a recipe for closed mindedness. Unfortunately in this case it seems that the individual was working with a faulty processor, and rather than getting clarity was instead locked into a fucked up ego fueled delusion. The media pundits and rent-a-expert will fill the airwaves with psychoanalysis for months to come.
Remember that Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley all navigated the labyrinth of Chapel Perilous. Dick received a cosmic message and produced the Exegesis, VALIS etc; RAW became an ultra-agnostic; and Thornley went from seeing everyone as a friend to fearing everyone as an enemy.
You sound like the sort of levelheaded dude that's never been the target of a hate group, nor known many who have.
Proportion, my ass.
Quote from: Suu on January 09, 2011, 08:24:18 PM
Every time I see the WBC acting up, I always try to tell myself that they're just trolling us. :horrormirth:
I think they are. They're damn good at it.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:07:54 AM
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 09, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Come on folks, a sense of proportion please.
WBC is a small group of extremists, basically a large family, that picket US service personnel funerals and basically spend their lives acting like complete douche bags. They love getting taken to court, they love being hated. I sent a donation to the Patriot Guard Riders a couple of years back so they could buy some gas and ride out to funerals and blockade the WBC nutters.
Whilst repugnant the WBC hardly seems to be representative of anything other than the narrowest of narrow minded hate mentality. They cower behind the First Amendment. Here in the UK they would be prevented from publishing such vitriol because of our 'incitement' laws, which try and balance the right to free speech with the responsibility to not shout fire in a crowded room.
I doubt Robert Anton Wilson would be surprised by that reading list. Reading only that which reinforces your prejudices, and failing to take in other viewpoints, is a recipe for closed mindedness. Unfortunately in this case it seems that the individual was working with a faulty processor, and rather than getting clarity was instead locked into a fucked up ego fueled delusion. The media pundits and rent-a-expert will fill the airwaves with psychoanalysis for months to come.
Remember that Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley all navigated the labyrinth of Chapel Perilous. Dick received a cosmic message and produced the Exegesis, VALIS etc; RAW became an ultra-agnostic; and Thornley went from seeing everyone as a friend to fearing everyone as an enemy.
You sound like the sort of levelheaded dude that's never been the target of a hate group, nor known many who have.
Proportion, my ass.
I wonder what he would do if it was his 9 year old daughter whos funeral was going to be picketed.
You all should check this Reddit thread, some guy did a bit of really good google-fu digging*, found he used to post on Above Top Secret forums (huge tinfoil hat nuttery forum for those that don't know it), and is really quite insane indeed:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/
Also, some possibility that this wasnt quite politically motivated in the way people assume, something about his hatred for NASA and Gifford's connection with that: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/c1c01t7
If that is the case, it kind of reminds me how Pim Fortuyn got shot, not by a muslim or some other minority he pissed off, but by a radical animal rights / environmental activist.
*edit: evidence is sort of circumstantial, he basically searched for odd and nutty typical phrases the guy used in his youtube vids, in an attempt to cut through the media crud and find background on him. However it does seem to add up, and the phrases are quite specific, in their lopsided ways.
Quote from: BadBeast on January 09, 2011, 10:12:31 PM
someone with a Samurai sword.
Seems like quite a few of those in the past year...
Kinda reminds me a little of ghost in the shell
Quotethe emergent presence of the invited-refugees intensified their confrontation with the "Individualists", who called for national isolation, which then led to the increased incidences of terrorist attacks. Under these circumstances, a terrorist group called the Individual Eleven carries out a suicide attack. But there was a greater scheme behind their action.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 10, 2011, 12:16:46 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:07:54 AM
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 09, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Come on folks, a sense of proportion please.
WBC is a small group of extremists, basically a large family, that picket US service personnel funerals and basically spend their lives acting like complete douche bags. They love getting taken to court, they love being hated. I sent a donation to the Patriot Guard Riders a couple of years back so they could buy some gas and ride out to funerals and blockade the WBC nutters.
Whilst repugnant the WBC hardly seems to be representative of anything other than the narrowest of narrow minded hate mentality. They cower behind the First Amendment. Here in the UK they would be prevented from publishing such vitriol because of our 'incitement' laws, which try and balance the right to free speech with the responsibility to not shout fire in a crowded room.
I doubt Robert Anton Wilson would be surprised by that reading list. Reading only that which reinforces your prejudices, and failing to take in other viewpoints, is a recipe for closed mindedness. Unfortunately in this case it seems that the individual was working with a faulty processor, and rather than getting clarity was instead locked into a fucked up ego fueled delusion. The media pundits and rent-a-expert will fill the airwaves with psychoanalysis for months to come.
Remember that Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson and Kerry Thornley all navigated the labyrinth of Chapel Perilous. Dick received a cosmic message and produced the Exegesis, VALIS etc; RAW became an ultra-agnostic; and Thornley went from seeing everyone as a friend to fearing everyone as an enemy.
You sound like the sort of levelheaded dude that's never been the target of a hate group, nor known many who have.
Proportion, my ass.
I wonder what he would do if it was his 9 year old daughter whos funeral was going to be picketed.
It's also important to note that this dude is from the UK. Which means he probably doesn't know fuck all about the actual social atmosphere of the United States.
NO he does, he just doesn't care. Better to be patronizing as FUCK rather than cop to the fact that the wackos out here are, in fact, 169% wackos, who will, as it happens, accidentally your whole family and not give a flying fuck.
But we here in the US just make too much of our wackos, who are cuckoo in name only. Never ever set fire to your dog, or steal from you or PSHAW! shoot up your banks, schools and neighborhoods.
NAW. Folks like the WBC nutjobs stay in their nice little perimeters, and there's a sort of natural "bark off" that sounds off whenever they stray too far from their 5 mile radius. No one EVER has ANY influence on ANYONE else around here, and we should all grow thick nubuck hides and get the FUCK OVER IT.
America,
A bunch of fucking whining pantywaists, GODDAMMIT
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
I almost said something similar, but I decided to be nice. :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
I almost said something similar, but I decided to be nice. :lulz:
Yeah, Nice is better than Snark. I blame the beer. *squints*
but aren't the WBC just a tiny church of just 100 people or so? who are all family?
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
Nope, I think it was COMPLETELY called for.
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 10, 2011, 01:07:45 AM
but aren't the WBC just a tiny church of just 100 people or so? who are all family?
Who? The Walker-Bush Clan?
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 10, 2011, 01:07:45 AM
but aren't the WBC just a tiny church of just 100 people or so? who are all family?
Yes, they are.
Here's the thing.
What they do is what a scarily accurate over-the-top lampoon of "Moral America" would look like. The reason it's so hard to tell whether they're trolling is because it's
too close to reality.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:05:29 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
I almost said something similar, but I decided to be nice. :lulz:
Yeah, Nice is better than Snark. I blame the beer. *squints*
Fuck nice. You do excellent snark, and I demand more.
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Quote from: Nigel on January 10, 2011, 01:11:40 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:05:29 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
:lulz: I'm sure that was uncalled for. Not sure where it came from, either.
I almost said something similar, but I decided to be nice. :lulz:
Yeah, Nice is better than Snark. I blame the beer. *squints*
Fuck nice. You do excellent snark, and I demand more.
Aw, and here I was debating over another beer.
DEBATE ORVER!
But in all srs fr srs, thanks--I try to be a Nice Guy most of the time, but occaisionally I get all het up.
This is NOT everyday shit and the moment we start to accept that it's everyday shit, we slog back into the position where we're going to accept more and more shit as everyday shit. What's next for chrissakes? Grocery store shootings? We have few other normal, everyday routines that we can engage in where tragedy and fear don't rule the day.
This IS domestic terrorism. And it's been agendized by the right-wing establishment time and again. Tim McVeigh, though certifiable, was definitely TAUGHT where to hone his craft by those who were STEEPED in a certain doctrine. And now he's a motherfucking hero to those who want to blow shit and people up.
But it's always easier for America to slink back into a corner of it's all HIS FAULT or THEIR FAULT and not IT'S OUR FAULT for standing by and allowing rhetoric to get past the point where it's truly just rhetoric. THIS SHIT'S REAL. It's REAL.
So when the WBC says THANK THE LORD THY GOD FOR OUR OWN HOMEGROWN TERRAISTS...you gotta wonder. You just gotta. How far would The People have taken it up the ass if some sniffbuttjerkwadcocksuckingnippleswabbingcuntwaffle decided to put out a pamphlet endorsing the Columbine Shooters?
How fucking far?
Two inches?
With lube?
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
/more beer
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Yeah, proportionally, it's not so bad. Because it's not like these people aren't representative of everyday people or anything. I only meet people who have been in the news for their whackjobbery, after all. I mean, i only live about 500 miles from the Westboro folks, so that means that I must be running into them all the time, right?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:31:17 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Yeah, proportionally, it's not so bad. Because it's not like these people aren't representative of everyday people or anything. I only meet people who have been in the news for their whackjobbery, after all. I mean, i only live about 500 miles from the Westboro folks, so that means that I must be running into them all the time, right?
:?
How close to Manhattan, Ks are you?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Yeah, but having 50% of people you see on the Street,
not hating you on sight is a pretty good point to start from, then you can choose which way you want to take the other 50%. Keep checking percentage every 2 weeks.
Then develop a hugely successful online RPG, where you had to make other players either hate you, or whichever degree of "Not Hate you" you can coax, wheedle, or otherwise establish with the other players. Who can play as hard to get as they like.
Call it "FaceHook" or something.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 10, 2011, 01:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:31:17 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Yeah, proportionally, it's not so bad. Because it's not like these people aren't representative of everyday people or anything. I only meet people who have been in the news for their whackjobbery, after all. I mean, i only live about 500 miles from the Westboro folks, so that means that I must be running into them all the time, right?
:?
How close to Manhattan, Ks are you?
Probably not much of an exaggeration. I'm in Illinois, about 350 miles from Kansas City, MO, if that helps with the estimation.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:53:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 10, 2011, 01:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:31:17 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Yeah, proportionally, it's not so bad. Because it's not like these people aren't representative of everyday people or anything. I only meet people who have been in the news for their whackjobbery, after all. I mean, i only live about 500 miles from the Westboro folks, so that means that I must be running into them all the time, right?
:?
How close to Manhattan, Ks are you?
Probably not much of an exaggeration. I'm in Illinois, about 350 miles from Kansas City, MO, if that helps with the estimation.
:( Too far to do lunch.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 10, 2011, 01:57:08 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:53:39 AM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 10, 2011, 01:40:03 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:31:17 AM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
I know. But you gotta suck it up, because HEY! PROPORTION'S EVERYTHING!!!!
I don't know how you do it, Phox! Kudos, dudette.
Yeah, proportionally, it's not so bad. Because it's not like these people aren't representative of everyday people or anything. I only meet people who have been in the news for their whackjobbery, after all. I mean, i only live about 500 miles from the Westboro folks, so that means that I must be running into them all the time, right?
:?
How close to Manhattan, Ks are you?
Probably not much of an exaggeration. I'm in Illinois, about 350 miles from Kansas City, MO, if that helps with the estimation.
:( Too far to do lunch.
Yeah, sorry bout that. :sad:
Babylon does have a point.
WBC are there to cause a reaction, that's what's given such a small group such power.
That said, the picketing is repugnant, though i do't much now what can be done about that given legal rulings etc.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
Given a free creative use of techniques made popular by The Cia's MKULTRA Project, someone could "Arrange" a half convincing "Rapturing" for that hideous Basilisk woman thing, then re-format her "Blind Dogma" partition, with a new message, that they've been horribly wrong, and must now do penance, by living in a secure reclusive "Atonement Facility for Bewildered Frothy Fuckwits" until their God sees fit to Rapture them all properly.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
How 'gay' do they like you to be? Bibfronts, beard, and Birkenstocks?
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 04:27:59 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
How 'gay' do they like you to be? Bibfronts, beard, and Birkenstocks?
Basically, if you're not an outrageous stereotype and extremely vocal about just how gay you are, they don't want you at their events. They want everyone to be in-your-face about their sexuality, so everyone knows that you're gay and proud. Of course, this is counterproductive if you want people to accept that being gay is normal...
Wait, gay people have lives that don't singularly revolve around how gay they are?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 04:45:37 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 04:27:59 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
How 'gay' do they like you to be? Bibfronts, beard, and Birkenstocks?
Basically, if you're not an outrageous stereotype and extremely vocal about just how gay you are, they don't want you at their events. They want everyone to be in-your-face about their sexuality, so everyone knows that you're gay and proud. Of course, this is counterproductive if you want people to accept that being gay is normal...
THIS.
Also, many of THEM just don't like it when you say, "I dunno, I just
like vaginas ..." They get mad for some reason. Whoo! Especially if you're a bit on the dainty side.
"But...but...you're a bottom!"
:lol:
Quote from: Alty on January 10, 2011, 05:06:55 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 04:45:37 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 04:27:59 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
How 'gay' do they like you to be? Bibfronts, beard, and Birkenstocks?
Basically, if you're not an outrageous stereotype and extremely vocal about just how gay you are, they don't want you at their events. They want everyone to be in-your-face about their sexuality, so everyone knows that you're gay and proud. Of course, this is counterproductive if you want people to accept that being gay is normal...
THIS.
Also, many of THEM just don't like it when you say, "I dunno, I just like vaginas ..." They get mad for some reason. Whoo! Especially if you're a bit on the dainty side.
"But...but...you're a bottom!"
:lol:
That's Genito-centricism gone mad! What a bunch of cuntalists!
Oh, and bisexuals don't count as gay, either. :roll:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 05:19:24 AM
Oh, and bisexuals don't count as gay, either. :roll:
(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Seems like the Palin thread got pushed off the first page, so I'll just leave this here:
http://obamalondon.blogspot.com/2011/01/inexplicable-edits-on-sarah-palins.html
Re-Railing thread.
http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2
Congresswoman Giffords subscribed to her own assassin on youtube before he killed her.
Thats just weird.
Whoa. That makes things.... complicated.
So... could this be personal? Flame war spiraling out of control?
Settle down guys, he's clearly a satan worshipping heathen! He was possessed by demons and they made him do this dark sided stuff!!!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html?r=news (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html?r=news)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/01/10/alg_loughner_shrine-exclusive.jpg)
QuoteA sinister shrine reveals a chilling occult dimension in the mind of the deranged gunman accused of shooting a member of Congress and 19 others.
Hidden within a camouflage tent behind Jared Lee Loughner's home sits an alarming altar with a skull sitting atop a pot filled with shriveled oranges.
A row of ceremonial candles and a bag of potting soil lay nearby, photos reveal.
Experts on Sunday said the elements are featured in the ceremonies of a number of occult groups.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html#ixzz1ActNpMes
HAIL JESUS!
Clearly we must ban Halloween decorations, to prevent a repeat of this tragedy.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
Re-Railing thread.
http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2
Congresswoman Giffords subscribed to her own assassin on youtube before he killed her.
Thats just weird.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 07:08:05 AM
Whoa. That makes things.... complicated.
Couldn't he just, yanno, block her?
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
Re-Railing thread.
http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2
Congresswoman Giffords subscribed to her own assassin on youtube before he killed her.
Thats just weird.
Where did you read that she had subscribed
before yesterday?
Not seeing anything giving a date, and it says last "visit" on the giffords account was today...
Quote from: Da6s on January 10, 2011, 10:18:00 AM
Settle down guys, he's clearly a satan worshipping heathen! He was possessed by demons and they made him do this dark sided stuff!!!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html?r=news (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html?r=news)
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/01/10/alg_loughner_shrine-exclusive.jpg)
QuoteA sinister shrine reveals a chilling occult dimension in the mind of the deranged gunman accused of shooting a member of Congress and 19 others.
Hidden within a camouflage tent behind Jared Lee Loughner's home sits an alarming altar with a skull sitting atop a pot filled with shriveled oranges.
A row of ceremonial candles and a bag of potting soil lay nearby, photos reveal.
Experts on Sunday said the elements are featured in the ceremonies of a number of occult groups.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html#ixzz1ActNpMes
HAIL JESUS!
Potting soil. That's the most Satanic thing I've ever heard of.
Tall glasses with the barcodes left on may not be the most Satanic thing I've seen, but they're almost as tacky as the fake skull.
Quote from: Da6s on January 10, 2011, 11:38:33 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 06:34:49 AM
Re-Railing thread.
http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2
Congresswoman Giffords subscribed to her own assassin on youtube before he killed her.
Thats just weird.
Where did you read that she had subscribed before yesterday?
Not seeing anything giving a date, and it says last "visit" on the giffords account was today...
Smells like a "jokester" hacked the account to me.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
kd lang or GTFO!
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 01:21:41 PM
Tall glasses with the barcodes left on may not be the most Satanic thing I've seen, but they're almost as tacky as the fake skull.
Those are candles I think.
...can you hear those groans? That's the sound of the far-right REACHING for an explanation other than the obvious.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 03:44:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 10, 2011, 01:19:18 AM
Hey, you know what's fun? Being absolutely fucking hated by about half the people you see on the street, because you don't have the good sense to be pretend to be just like them. Nothing makes me feel better than knowing that the disapproving looks I get every day of my life are not at all based on anything I've done to these people. I gotta tell ya, it's a great feeling.
Blend in. It makes life easier, AND you get to sneak up on the bastards.
It's pretty much too late for that, Roger. The fact that I am not exactly shy about my sexuality has branded me a heretic to most of the religious organizations on campus. Strangely, the LGBT organizations don't really like me either because I'm "not gay enough". :lulz:
kd lang or GTFO!
I'll raise you a Celine Dion, and a Tracy Chapman.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 01:21:41 PM
Tall glasses with the barcodes left on may not be the most Satanic thing I've seen, but they're almost as tacky as the fake skull.
Those are candles I think.
They may have candles in them. Still tacky though.
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 01:21:41 PM
Tall glasses with the barcodes left on may not be the most Satanic thing I've seen, but they're almost as tacky as the fake skull.
Those are candles I think.
They may have candles in them. Still tacky though.
Oh, definitely.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
...can you hear those groans? That's the sound of the far-right REACHING for an explanation other than the obvious.
Let me know whether or not y'all can see this. I'll quote it if you can't.
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=168462556531613&id=1067212304
I can, and it is painfully stupid.
Nanny filter won't let me see Facebook.
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
I can, and it is painfully stupid.
Ok, good. I wasn't sure how that guy had his privacy settings set up. He starts a dozen or so threads like that just about every day.
I just made fun of him on his thread. I don't think I've been in a proper Facebook argument before (the closest was correcting some teachers calling Michael Gove a public schoolboy when he was in fact a scholarship boy who wished he could have been a public schoolboy, hence his deep and crippling need to proe himself to the Tory front bench on education policy).
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 10, 2011, 02:41:59 PM
Nanny filter won't let me see Facebook.
Here you go.
Quote
Robert Reams
so....the left has already started..
It's all about "right wing" hate speech (guess they forgot about the attacks on Bush)
AND, MORE gun control....goodness..
8 hours ago · Like · Comment
2 people like this.
Kris Stephens
I am more interested in HOW he passed a FBI background check. And how can it be the rights fault when he was a LEFTIST? His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list.
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
Yup, but this works to help the lefts agenda. Instead of genuine sadness..the left can't wait to use this.. it is sad
The left is attacking Sarah Palin saying she is responsible for this..man, the far left is a bunch of sick people
8 hours ago · Like
Kris Stephens
Indeed. My experience in dealing with the left is that thay are - as a group - very full of hate.
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
To me things are very simple. I love God, Country and family...plain and simple. The left hates all the above. It really feel bad for them, it's no wonder they are so full of hate...they have nothing to live for
8 hours ago · Like
Dan Morgan
Its the rights fult cuz she wasn't left enough for him
8 hours ago · Like
Eric Hanson
The left is no more full of hate than we are on the right. Their problem (and subequently ours to deal with) is they are incredibly arrogant and dismissive of any type of dissenting opinion and they will clearly use anything for political gain - no matter how distasteful, undignified, misrepresented, deceitful, illogical, or just plain wrong.
8 hours ago · Like
Michael Lewis
Robert, you would be amazed at how many people that I served with that were "Repubs". We were a about God, country (military family) and family. Anything else was secondary. I didnt encounter many of the left unless they were civilian government workers.
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
Eric, I really disagree..the true left hates this country, they hate everything it stands for. They hate business, they hate freedoms, they hate religion..they hate so much it consumes many of them.
8 hours ago · Like · 1 person
Eric Hanson
I think you are accurate when it comes to the far left that has hijacked the Democrat party but your average neighborhood Democrat doesn't hate you or me. They simply vote Democrat because their daddy did and their granddaddy before him. Too much loyalty to a party that abandoned them long ago...
9 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
I was once a democrat.....but way back when....when you compare democrats then to the democrats now....they were actually republicans.
9 hours ago · Like
Mary Malley
I guess you weren't listening to all the same programs I was, Robert. The accounts I listened to ALL said that all sides (not just Rep and Dem - but all sides) needed to stop the violent rhetoric. I was pleased that today's shows did not draw lines (as we have come to expect). Let's use this time to stop always pointing to one or the other, let's all agree to stop making attacks all the time, we can be on different sides of an issue and debate that to the fullest, but now let's stop always saying I'm right and you're wrong, not we have differing opinions.
9 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
Mary.....All I have heard is talk of blaming it on Palin and Bush.
9 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Uh, I don't want to break your bubble, but there was an interview on FOX where a Democrat actually stated that the "vitriolic rhetoric" from the Tea Party probably had something to do with this fruitcake shooting people in Tucson. That certainly does NOT sound like "let's just all get along" to me. That sounds like someone is still trying to pin guilt on a patriotic people who want the best for their country, which is LOWER TAXES and LESS GOVERNMENT...
9 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
I see Mary..well, please review the following links and the comments
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249273
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-rightwing-rhetoric
9 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
"the right wing nutty rhetoric is partly responsible for this tragedy. It empowers unstable nutcases to believe that they have justice on their side.
Palin will defend her right to keep using inflammatory language because without it shes nothing.
Same with beck et al
But this should be the moment where america wakes up and makes fox news etc accountable....."
9 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
?"Sad to say, but all these Tea Party members are absolute nut cases, and to let them own guns is just unbelieveable."
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
?"those republicans are lying, of course. secretly they blame gabrielle giffords' politics for the shooting and the event instils in them a sense of victory (like the smell of napalm in the morning). theirs is an anthropomorphic ideology - the rapture enacted as a political solution. if people suffer it is because they are meant to suffer. it is a vindication."
Mary, I could do this all night.
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
The real deal is the guy was frickin crazy. Even if we lived in Eden....there are still nut jobs out there. I have heard more people talking about the tea party being involved in this than anything else.....THE GUY WAS NUTS....get it?
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
Mary, I am not trying to be difficult, but most folks who know me know that I always do my homework before I post.
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
This is just the set-up to take people like Glenn Beck off the air. Don't forget! The Left never lets a good crisis go by! Would that explain why Pres BO was so quick to jump on the bandwagon with this shooting, but what about the Ft Hood shootings? Why did it take him so long THAT TIME?? hmmmm.
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
Not too much homework to be done with this guy...he dropped out of highschool....failed the pee test for the Army....and was kicked out of Pima Community College pending a mental exam...he was nuts.....that is it in a nutshelll....lol
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
Hey Robert....Ft. Hood.....very good point!!
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Hey, Linda - we may not want that shooter to be actually "nuts" because he should NOT get off on an insanity plea! This was a planned assassination! Premeditated!!
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
Oh....I can guarantee you an insanity plea.....they just assigned a defense attorney that defended the Uni-bomber....this guy is used to crazy....and knows just what to do.
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Not surprised...
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
And the taxpayers foot the bill.....LOL
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Don't we ALWAYS???
8 hours ago · Like
Mary Malley
Barb - I did hear that show, but then I also heard a person on that panel say just what we are saying here, hey, that goes for both sides....I was surely not saying I didn't hear some blame, what I am saying is that this time, let's NOT do the same ol same ol. Robert - I read your links, that is sad....I'm kinda glad that the dozen or so TV programs I listened to today were not that way (and I don't listen to Beck ever), but again, at least there WERE some shows that did not do that, and it makes me hopeful!
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
There should be no rhetoric about anything....."can't we all just get a long?" Why are they even asking that question. The guy was nuts...period....bottom line...the only person we can put any blame on is him.
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Mary, I have no problem doing things differently, but usually that kind of request means that the Repubs/Right/Tea Party/Conservatives play by the rules while the Dems/Left/Progressives play their own game and the Repubs get the short end o...
See More
8 hours ago · Like
Robert Reams
Mary, I agree...it is a very sad thing and something like this has no business being thrust in the the political arena...but of course it will.
What about the little girl and the Judge etc...that is tragic and this is what we should be spending our time on...the families of the ones who were killed..not blaming someone because the have different beliefs
8 hours ago · Like
Linda Tanner
Woot-woot....LOL...
8 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Gotta get to bed, guys! Love the comments! Robert, as usual, you are RIGHT ON the money! G'nite guys!
8 hours ago · Like
Greg Collins
Seems to me the Left doesn't use too much Hate in their speech's it's Always Racism. Shifting the blame on any conservative agenda by crying RACIST. I can only hope the Silent Majority gets their voice soon. Please people WAKE UP!!!
7 hours ago · Like
Chris Thornton
the sad thing is this - 1: a tragedy has happened - people were killed and injured. lets not forget that
2: this guy is a whack job in anyones language.
3:all the political BS aside - both sides need to figure out a way to minimise this from...
See More
4 hours ago · Like
George Matthew
Remember how these same people didn't want to "jump to conclusions" about Hassan, the Fort Hood shooter
3 hours ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
?"Never let a good crisis go to waste."
30 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
so CNN and MSNBC are running the story that is was because of Sarah Palin using the gun sight last yr this happened..come on..this kid was a sicko...besides, he said himself he was a left wing crazy
22 minutes ago · Like
Chris Thornton
the kid was/is a whack job or psycho or as i like to say a demented FW (pardon the language) - no one is to blame but himself. the rest is just an excuse to pass the blame and explain the un explainable.
21 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
Chris, the left in this country LOVES a good crisis....it is truly sad. Instead we should be focusing on the families of the slain Americans and the ones who are still fighting for their life!
20 minutes ago · Like
Chris Thornton
and dare i say it his family. they must be going thru hell knowing that their own flesh and blood has done this. as a parent i couldnt imagine how i would feel if this was one of my sons. the word now is SUPPORT. not buckpassing.
19 minutes ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
To a Dem there is no such thing as "personal responsibility."
18 minutes ago · Like
Froggy Pasta
I have seen inappropriate (IMO) politicized comments since the moment the shootings were announced. From both sides. It is disheartening and ridiculous. Let us not do the same here.
16 minutes ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Watch PA Dem Robert Brady trying to shut down political speech that is "perceived" as a threat.
15 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
Froggy, we are simply talking about how bad it is to politicize something this tragic
14 minutes ago · Like
Barb Weidemann
Amazing how each person "perceives" this conversation differently, isn't it? Do we want to have our ability to talk about these subjects regulated and shut down by our government? Really?
10 minutes ago · Like
Charlie Dodge
They wont get "One World Order" until they get the guns out of the hands of the Common man.
4 minutes ago · Like
Froggy Pasta
That's a little hard to defend, isn't it, when this thread contains comment likes "To a Dem there is no such thing as personal responsibility" or "The left loves a crisis." Some people, even right here in your own noble thread, are using the misguided media coverage of this tragedy to insult those who don't embrace their own views. It started mere minutes after the shooting--on both sides--and it looks like some people are going to use your wall to do more of the same. I wish we could be better than that. I understand the urge to contradict people who are being unfair and inaccurate, but we should acknowledge that (a) it's coming from all sides and (b) choosing to complain about ONE side is, itself, being at least somewhat partisan about an issue that ought to unite us.
4 minutes ago · Like
Cain Aerte
Robert Reams says "Froggy, we are simply talking about how bad it is to politicize something this tragic"....yet the status update says "so....the left has already started.. It's all about "right wing" hate speech (guess they forgot about the attacks on Bush)
AND, MORE gun control....goodness.." I am glad Robert has made it clear that such talk does not constitute politicizing something. LOL.
4 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
I see, Cain what is your point. I am simply talking about what is going on. If the right was doing the same thing I would point the finger at them. So far they are not..only the far left is in a tizzy..what are your thoughts?
6 minutes ago · Like
Donnie Aadams
I do think guns should not be put in the hands of the mentally unstable. How many more people have to die before the cons move on this?
3 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
Froggy..not really. Pointing out the different lvls of stupidity within the far left ( or the right) is something that should be talked about. I certainly didn't start this...the left has and so far it is completely stupid. Even that stupid sherrif that blamed it all on Cable news and talk radio,,,really...come on. using this tragic event to push part of the lefts agenda...
3 minutes ago · Like
Robert Reams
Donnie...point taken..I guess it depends on how we know if they are. I mean, look at the kids who killed the principle here in Omaha last week. NO ONE said they thought he was unstable..but it looks like he was..
about a minute ago · Like
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on January 10, 2011, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Yeah, I just rarely get into it with these types of folks. They think anything left of center IS the far-left. And they really have no clue. The fact they think Obama's a socialist (most of them, and by THEM I don't mean this particular group, of course) is a big indicator of where their rubric is skewed.
It makes me wonder if the "Bush = Nazi" people were just as silly. I admit personal bias, and that may have skewed my perceptions somewhat. I usually played it off as "rhetoric", and that no one really believed Bush was a proponent of National Socialism.
But I often overestimate human intelligence.
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on January 10, 2011, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Say for instance, Oswald wasn't murdered by Ruby, and had won a not guilty due to insanity hearing. The implications of that, "It therefore takes a sane man to try to assassinate a President".
If he fits the"Lone Nut" profile too well, he's innocent. (Or Dead) Methinks they're going to have their "Pound of flesh" with this one, and the Circus will just get bigger and bigger.
Maybe it really was down to Palin's Voodoo Cross Hair's. (Just out of interest, who else did she do?)
To me, the difference is that politicians are actually getting into the fray now, or at least, getting into it more prominently. Certainly back in the Bush days there were public figures who probably said some pretty incendiary things about Bush. I would imagine someone like Michael Moore, maybe Spike Lee, Barbara Streisand, I don't know, people like that. But I don't really remember a lefty Sarah Palin or a lefty Sharron Angle out there suggesting things like 2nd Amendment remedies. (I could be wrong but I'm not recalling anything like that).
So that's the big difference for me and why I can't accept the equivalence the right is trying to draw to the Bush days. For me, it's a totally different ball game when the elected public servants decide to wade into the mud.
Yeah, good point. I recall the really foamy anti-bush crowd saying they wanted him impeached, never assassinated.
I just look at what the Right says about the Left, and it's the same as what the Left says about the Right:
They're extreme. No moderates left.
They hate freedom.
They're consumed by hate.
Seems both sides think the same about the other. To me, it's the polarization that SEEMS to be getting worse, the lack of ability to see a meeting of the minds, etc. How far did the Dems take it to the wall for Bush et al when they had Congress? Did they make a statement, in their leadership, that their #1 priority would be to make sure he failed? Not sure about that.
So when the populace at large sees the "leaders" of their platform pushing forth a more polarized agenda, seeing less worth in judging others with non-prejudicial means...seems to me there's going to be more attraction to the violent rhetoric, less peacable turns of mind and thought on a general level.
Not surprising though, and extremely dismaying, that they jump to "Oh this guy's fulfilling a LEFTIST agenda in shooting a Democrat!" right off the bat. Jesus fuck. And I thought *I* was a jaded bitch!
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on January 10, 2011, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Yeah, I just rarely get into it with these types of folks. They think anything left of center-right IS the far-left. And they really have no clue. The fact they think Obama's a socialist (most of them, and by THEM I don't mean this particular group, of course) is a big indicator of where their rubric is skewed.
Fixed.
If by "this particular group", you mean the people on that facebook thread, then yes, most of them do believe that Obama is a red-flag-waving, Marx-worshiping, class-warfare-stoking, anti-business socialist who is trying to destroy America on purpose.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 10, 2011, 03:18:44 PM
To me, the difference is that politicians are actually getting into the fray now, or at least, getting into it more prominently. Certainly back in the Bush days there were public figures who probably said some pretty incendiary things about Bush. I would imagine someone like Michael Moore, maybe Spike Lee, Barbara Streisand, I don't know, people like that. But I don't really remember a lefty Sarah Palin or a lefty Sharron Angle out there suggesting things like 2nd Amendment remedies. (I could be wrong but I'm not recalling anything like that).
So that's the big difference for me and why I can't accept the equivalence the right is trying to draw to the Bush days. For me, it's a totally different ball game when the elected public servants decide to wade into the mud.
I think that now the "Political Celebrity" (eg, Bonio) angle has been whored till the Tit not only squeaks, but howls in outrage and indignant fury, Politicians have been almost
forced into taking a
Political standpoint on actual
Political Issues, and some of them just aren't up to the job. Others are, but they'd hate to be labelled as some kind of
fucking Radical, so they just shut up, and suck it. By the time you reach any position where you have a voice, you've got so many "favours" to repay to the people who put you there, any ethical or moral considerations you may have had to begin with, generally get flushed down the Shitter along with your integrity, discretion, and any self respect you managed to hold onto. Entertaining enough though. Like N.C.I.S .
Most Liberals, in my opinion, tend to be third circuit* focused... That means that they probably tend to think a bit more about what they are going to say and how it will be perceived. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend towards more second circuit thinking, meaning that they tend more toward the peeing on trees, beating their chests and generally trying to guard their territory.. and that is often done with threats and noise.
I don't doubt for a minute that there were plenty of lefty loon that would have loved to see GWB shot down. However, they aren't about to go beating on their chests screaming. On the conservative side though, it becomes very interesting to look at their actions through the lens of territorial primates. After all, carrying guns in public seems an awful lot like an animal baring its teeth to show strength and scare off aggressors.
So, IMO, its likely that many Liberals would have loved to see Conservative X shot down, but they're not about to say such a thing in public because words are important to them. Also, an impeachment would be a more satisfying end to a political enemy, simply because it would be a condemnation of the opponents position/actions. In second circuit thinking... there is a threat that must be dealt with and the means for dealing with that threat are less important than dealing with the threat.
So... if this is an issue of perception... if the conservative people are more 'second circuit' based... how does a country move forward and reduce the impact that such thinking has on the behavior of the nation? Is it possible? Is it an issue of integrating their concerns, validating their fears and resolving them... or is it an issue of screaming and throwing poop back at them?
Also, the more I read about this guy, the more it appears that he was just a crazy person. Either way, it certainly doesn't excuse the vitriol or cross-hair graphics.
* Using the 8 circuit model of consciousness here
This is what the American people demanded...An unbridgeabe divide, so that they can believe that they can hate with God™ on their side.
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
The real fun is going to start when they have to replace Giffords. I find it highly unlikely, given where her injury is, that she'll be able to return to Congress. What is the law in Arizona? Do they do a special election? Is a replacement appointed?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 10, 2011, 03:56:04 PM
The real fun is going to start when they have to replace Giffords. I find it highly unlikely, given where her injury is, that she'll be able to return to Congress. What is the law in Arizona? Do they do a special election? Is a replacement appointed?
As long as she's alive, IIRC, the seat is hers. There's precedent.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/bin/JT4Mz1.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
Aren't they just a riot? :lol:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
This. One of those fucks in the Facebook discussion actually said "His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list." - so he thinks a lot of leftie hippies are sitting around reading Mein Kampf... I guess the hippies I went to school with were just poseurs, they were usually reading Steal This Book.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 10, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
This. One of those fucks in the Facebook discussion actually said "His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list." - so he thinks a lot of leftie hippies are sitting around reading Mein Kampf... I guess the hippies I went to school with were just poseurs, they were usually reading Steal This Book.
Hey he was a national
SOCIALIST. Therefore socialists(a fancy word for LIEberal) killed millions of Jews.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 10, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
This. One of those fucks in the Facebook discussion actually said "His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list." - so he thinks a lot of leftie hippies are sitting around reading Mein Kampf... I guess the hippies I went to school with were just poseurs, they were usually reading Steal This Book.
Their argument is that the Nazi party was the "National Socialist Workers Party". By that token, the DPRK isn't a despotism because it has "democratic" & "republic" in it.
Kill me now.
It comes down to the fact that it's called National Socialism. Not that they can be bothered to actually see that Hitler was anti-Communist, anti-left and anti-intellectual. Non of that matters. He was a National Socialist which makes him exactly the same as any other socialist.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 05:09:45 PM
It comes down to the fact that it's called National Socialism. Not that they can be bothered to actually see that Hitler was anti-Communist, anti-left and anti-intellectual. Non of that matters. He was a National Socialist which makes him exactly the same as any other socialist.
And of course, everyone on the left is a socialist. Some are just sneaky about it(Obango)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 04:54:30 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 10, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
This. One of those fucks in the Facebook discussion actually said "His favorite books were the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...Not exactly books you find on the conservative reading list." - so he thinks a lot of leftie hippies are sitting around reading Mein Kampf... I guess the hippies I went to school with were just poseurs, they were usually reading Steal This Book.
Their argument is that the Nazi party was the "National Socialist Workers Party". By that token, the DPRK isn't a despotism because it has "democratic" & "republic" in it.
Better yet. Democrats clearly side with Kim Jong Il. He runs a democratic republic instead of just a regular one.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 05:09:45 PM
It comes down to the fact that it's called National Socialism. Not that they can be bothered to actually see that Hitler was anti-Communist, anti-left and anti-intellectual. Non of that matters. He was a National Socialist which makes him exactly the same as any other socialist.
And of course, everyone on the left is a socialist. Some are just sneaky about it(Obango)
Sure. Calling everyone a Communist these days comes across as vitriolic. Damn that Senator McCarthy for ruining a perfectly good word. Now we have to use words like Socialist and Marxist instead.
Ya know what, I vote for the restoration of the Roman Republic. Let's strip the president of all power, get rid of the Supreme Court, and boot the House. THEN when we're down to just the Senate, after we make it to wear you become a Senator through the appointment of the state legislators, which are themselves made up of only the influential people, of course, the Senate appoints its own members to the various executive and judicial tasks. That way, we get rid of that pesky "democracy" thing that's been fucking up our good Republic for too long.
FUCK THE REPUBLIC! HEGEMONIC EMPIRE ALL THE WAY!
But all hyperbole aside, I think a large part of why the right side of the politico Americano sees Left = Socialism is because of their perception of those governments who ARE more socialist and left-leaning. Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Europhobia. America has it.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Europhobia. America has it.
That's only fair though. Europe, well mainly France exports anti-Americanism, even though, to quote the Wikileaks cables, "Our current relationship with France is so profoundly healthy that conventional wisdom now asserts that there are no significant differences in the foreign policies of our two countries."
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on January 10, 2011, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Say for instance, Oswald wasn't murdered by Ruby, and had won a not guilty due to insanity hearing. The implications of that, "It therefore takes a sane man to try to assassinate a President".
If he fits the"Lone Nut" profile too well, he's innocent. (Or Dead) Methinks they're going to have their "Pound of flesh" with this one, and the Circus will just get bigger and bigger.
Maybe it really was down to Palin's Voodoo Cross Hair's. (Just out of interest, who else did she do?)
Voodoo cross hairs would, conceivably, conjure up some sort of lone nut with no connection wouldn't they?
Just going on the assumption that magic is real, is there room here to paint Palin as a witch?
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on January 10, 2011, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on January 10, 2011, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:45:57 PM
I just made fun of him on his thread.
It went right over his head.
Say for instance, Oswald wasn't murdered by Ruby, and had won a not guilty due to insanity hearing. The implications of that, "It therefore takes a sane man to try to assassinate a President".
If he fits the"Lone Nut" profile too well, he's innocent. (Or Dead) Methinks they're going to have their "Pound of flesh" with this one, and the Circus will just get bigger and bigger.
Maybe it really was down to Palin's Voodoo Cross Hair's. (Just out of interest, who else did she do?)
Voodoo cross hairs would, conceivably, conjure up some sort of lone nut with no connection wouldn't they?
Just going on the assumption that magic is real, is there room here to paint Palin as a witch?
No need. There's already Christine O'Donnell
Devil made him do it defense :fnord:
What's next Catholic church and the Discovery channel making a documentary on exorcisms?
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:20:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Europhobia. America has it.
That's only fair though. Europe, well mainly France exports anti-Americanism, even though, to quote the Wikileaks cables, "Our current relationship with France is so profoundly healthy that conventional wisdom now asserts that there are no significant differences in the foreign policies of our two countries."
haha! Islamophobia unites two countries. Beautiful.
Back to your earlier point, yeah, it's "fair" but still skews their vision of our OWN left-of-centers. They lump everyone in. So basically, anyone who thinks health care is a basic right (something that right-wingers decry as a totally silly assumption) is a Europhilic socialist commie scumbag.
But if they saw the health care system in the US as it really IS, they'd know we already HAVE socialized health care. THANKS TO REAGAN! (d'oh!)
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 01:21:41 PM
Tall glasses with the barcodes left on may not be the most Satanic thing I've seen, but they're almost as tacky as the fake skull.
Those are candles I think.
They may have candles in them. Still tacky though.
Please tell me its the same kinda tent that was on Sarah's show :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 03:50:12 PM
This is what the American people demanded...An unbridgeabe divide, so that they can believe that they can hate with God™ on their side.
What I find hysterical is that they honestly believe that Nazism is a far-left ideology.
It's not even a
Left very
Far away ideology. (After all, it's no good without Hitler, is it?)
Re-Brand it as "National Social Reformists" or some other such meaningless pap, give it a catchy Jingle, like "Fighting so your Rights can be Left alone" no-one will notice until it's shower time, I bet you.
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 06:37:29 PM
Devil made him do it defense :fnord:
What's next Catholic church and the Discovery channel making a documentary on exorcisms?
Naw dude...exorcisms are BACK. In a badawful way. GAH. The Catholics are turning psychoweird again in some corners. Just when you thought there was a Christianity out there that didn't go into the wacky, along comes Pope Palpatine's Circus.
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:20:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Europhobia. America has it.
That's only fair though. Europe, well mainly France exports anti-Americanism, even though, to quote the Wikileaks cables, "Our current relationship with France is so profoundly healthy that conventional wisdom now asserts that there are no significant differences in the foreign policies of our two countries."
haha! Islamophobia unites two countries. Beautiful.
Back to your earlier point, yeah, it's "fair" but still skews their vision of our OWN left-of-centers. They lump everyone in. So basically, anyone who thinks health care is a basic right (something that right-wingers decry as a totally silly assumption) is a Europhilic socialist commie scumbag.
But if they saw the health care system in the US as it really IS, they'd know we already HAVE socialized health care. THANKS TO REAGAN! (d'oh!)
That's
MISTER Reagan to you, you
Anarchist!
Quote from: BadBeast on January 10, 2011, 06:42:53 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 06:39:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:20:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 10, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 10, 2011, 05:39:43 PM
Their whole conception of Yurp is basically it's a tax-and-spend set of governments who care not for freedumbs.
Uh, but that's entirely accurate. The only puzzle is how they dont realize their own beloved government, under both parties, is absolutely the same and always will be.
Europhobia. America has it.
That's only fair though. Europe, well mainly France exports anti-Americanism, even though, to quote the Wikileaks cables, "Our current relationship with France is so profoundly healthy that conventional wisdom now asserts that there are no significant differences in the foreign policies of our two countries."
haha! Islamophobia unites two countries. Beautiful.
Back to your earlier point, yeah, it's "fair" but still skews their vision of our OWN left-of-centers. They lump everyone in. So basically, anyone who thinks health care is a basic right (something that right-wingers decry as a totally silly assumption) is a Europhilic socialist commie scumbag.
But if they saw the health care system in the US as it really IS, they'd know we already HAVE socialized health care. THANKS TO REAGAN! (d'oh!)
That's MISTER Reagan to you, you Anarchist!
:thanks:
http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals (http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 06:43:02 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on January 10, 2011, 06:24:59 PM
Just going on the assumption that magic is real,
Oh, FFS.
Misinterpreting me FTW.
I wasn't saying Palin IS a witch, I was suggesting a particular angle of mindfuck.
Quote from: Remington on January 10, 2011, 06:48:24 PM
http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals (http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals)
I have plans for this, if I can get out of work long enough.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 06:54:10 PM
Quote from: Remington on January 10, 2011, 06:48:24 PM
http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals (http://www.examiner.com/buzz-in-kansas-city/westboro-baptist-church-plans-protest-at-arizona-shooting-funerals)
I have plans for this, if I can get out of work long enough.
I so wish I could be there for that.
No leftist wanted Bush offed for the same reason McCain choose his running mate... the replacement is far worse.
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 06:59:37 PM
No leftist wanted Bush offed for the same reason McCain choose his running mate... the replacement is far worse.
Well, except everyone thought Cheney was already behind everything anyway, because everyone swallowed that "Dumbass Good Ol' Boy" schtick the White House had going. Which I STILL think is 50% true 'nuff.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 06:43:02 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on January 10, 2011, 06:24:59 PM
Just going on the assumption that magic is real,
Oh, FFS.
I wonder if he used the oranges to channel the man in black from lost...
Jenne I think I'm with Jon re:bush
He was the frat boy common man checkpoint for government, if an idea could be explained to him and accepted then the entire country would shallow it.
BH, can you explain the difference between what Ben Mack does and magick?
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 07:08:39 PM
Jenne I think I'm with Jon re:bush
He was the frat boy common man checkpoint for government, if an idea could be explained to him and accepted then the entire country would shallow it.
Yeah, I think I can see that as being the majority of his decision-making, along with the "God speaks to me" part.
Maybe he did hear voices, if I recall the tinfoilers used to say Nixon thought his dog could talk to him :fnord:
From one of the shooters threads on above top secret.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2dlr77n.jpg)
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 07:56:58 PM
From one of the shooters threads on above top secret.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2dlr77n.jpg)
Link to thread?
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
Maybe he did hear voices, if I recall the tinfoilers used to say Nixon thought his dog could talk to him :fnord:
One day, while Nasreddin was visiting the capital city, the Sultan took offense to a joke that was made at his expense. He had Nasreddin immediately arrested and imprisoned; accusing him of heresy and sedition. Nasreddin apologized to the Sultan for his joke, and begged for his life; but the Sultan remained obstinate, and in his anger, sentenced Nasreddin to be beheaded the following day. When Nasreddin was brought out the next morning, he addressed the Sultan, saying "Oh Sultan, live forever! You know me to be a skilled teacher, the greatest in your kingdom. If you will but delay my sentence for one year, I will teach your favorite horse to sing."
The Sultan did not believe that such a thing was possible; but his anger had cooled, and he was amused by the audacity of Nasreddin's claim. "Very well," replied the Sultan, "you will have a year. But if by the end of that year you have not taught my favorite horse to sing, then you will wish you had been beheaded today."
That evening, Nasreddin's friends were allowed to visit him in prison, and found him in unexpected good spirits. "How can you be so happy?" they asked. "Do you really believe that you can teach the Sultan's horse to sing?" "Of course not," replied Nasreddin, "but I now have a year which I did not have yesterday; and much can happen in that time. The Sultan may come to repent of his anger, and release me. He may die in battle or of illness, and it is traditional for a successor to pardon all prisoners upon taking office. He may be overthrown by another faction, and again, it is traditional for prisoners to be released at such a time. Or the horse may die, in which case the Sultan will be obliged to release me."
"Finally," said Nasreddin, "even if none of those things come to pass,
perhaps the horse can sing."
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread591520/pg1
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 10, 2011, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
Maybe he did hear voices, if I recall the tinfoilers used to say Nixon thought his dog could talk to him :fnord:
One day, while Nasreddin was visiting the capital city, the Sultan took offense to a joke that was made at his expense. He had Nasreddin immediately arrested and imprisoned; accusing him of heresy and sedition. Nasreddin apologized to the Sultan for his joke, and begged for his life; but the Sultan remained obstinate, and in his anger, sentenced Nasreddin to be beheaded the following day. When Nasreddin was brought out the next morning, he addressed the Sultan, saying "Oh Sultan, live forever! You know me to be a skilled teacher, the greatest in your kingdom. If you will but delay my sentence for one year, I will teach your favorite horse to sing."
The Sultan did not believe that such a thing was possible; but his anger had cooled, and he was amused by the audacity of Nasreddin's claim. "Very well," replied the Sultan, "you will have a year. But if by the end of that year you have not taught my favorite horse to sing, then you will wish you had been beheaded today."
That evening, Nasreddin's friends were allowed to visit him in prison, and found him in unexpected good spirits. "How can you be so happy?" they asked. "Do you really believe that you can teach the Sultan's horse to sing?" "Of course not," replied Nasreddin, "but I now have a year which I did not have yesterday; and much can happen in that time. The Sultan may come to repent of his anger, and release me. He may die in battle or of illness, and it is traditional for a successor to pardon all prisoners upon taking office. He may be overthrown by another faction, and again, it is traditional for prisoners to be released at such a time. Or the horse may die, in which case the Sultan will be obliged to release me."
"Finally," said Nasreddin, "even if none of those things come to pass, perhaps the horse can sing."
Nice story, but i'm not sure how its relevant to the thread.
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 10, 2011, 08:13:53 PM
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 10, 2011, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
Maybe he did hear voices, if I recall the tinfoilers used to say Nixon thought his dog could talk to him :fnord:
One day, while Nasreddin was visiting the capital city, the Sultan took offense to a joke that was made at his expense. He had Nasreddin immediately arrested and imprisoned; accusing him of heresy and sedition. Nasreddin apologized to the Sultan for his joke, and begged for his life; but the Sultan remained obstinate, and in his anger, sentenced Nasreddin to be beheaded the following day. When Nasreddin was brought out the next morning, he addressed the Sultan, saying "Oh Sultan, live forever! You know me to be a skilled teacher, the greatest in your kingdom. If you will but delay my sentence for one year, I will teach your favorite horse to sing."
The Sultan did not believe that such a thing was possible; but his anger had cooled, and he was amused by the audacity of Nasreddin's claim. "Very well," replied the Sultan, "you will have a year. But if by the end of that year you have not taught my favorite horse to sing, then you will wish you had been beheaded today."
That evening, Nasreddin's friends were allowed to visit him in prison, and found him in unexpected good spirits. "How can you be so happy?" they asked. "Do you really believe that you can teach the Sultan's horse to sing?" "Of course not," replied Nasreddin, "but I now have a year which I did not have yesterday; and much can happen in that time. The Sultan may come to repent of his anger, and release me. He may die in battle or of illness, and it is traditional for a successor to pardon all prisoners upon taking office. He may be overthrown by another faction, and again, it is traditional for prisoners to be released at such a time. Or the horse may die, in which case the Sultan will be obliged to release me."
"Finally," said Nasreddin, "even if none of those things come to pass, perhaps the horse can sing."
Nice story, but i'm not sure how its relevant to the thread.
It isn't. It sure is OUTLANDISH, though!
He strikes me as a RAW type noob. Maybe he'll snap out of it.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 08:36:28 PM
He strikes me as a RAW type noob. Maybe he'll snap out of it.
I doubt it. Pinealism has a very low recovery rate.
On a side note.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/10/sarah-palin-stalker-shawn-christy-alaska-restraining-order/
QuoteA man who's been legally ordered to stay away from Sarah Palin is causing a new wave of concern in Alaska -- after federal agents learned he plans to visit Sarah's home state in the very near future.
Sarah Palin has
federal agents protecting her. a stalker.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
Sarah Palin has federal agents protecting her.
WTF? She's a private citizen.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 08:36:28 PM
He strikes me as a RAW type noob. Maybe he'll snap out of it.
The fact that he has made very few posts that didn't end up referencing RAW in some way seems to indicate he is too far gone to be converted.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
On a side note.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/10/sarah-palin-stalker-shawn-christy-alaska-restraining-order/
QuoteA man who's been legally ordered to stay away from Sarah Palin is causing a new wave of concern in Alaska -- after federal agents learned he plans to visit Sarah's home state in the very near future.
Sarah Palin has federal agents protecting her.
Hey... maybe our crazy shooter will escape jail and hit up Alaska next.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
On a side note.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/10/sarah-palin-stalker-shawn-christy-alaska-restraining-order/
QuoteA man who's been legally ordered to stay away from Sarah Palin is causing a new wave of concern in Alaska -- after federal agents learned he plans to visit Sarah's home state in the very near future.
Sarah Palin has federal agents protecting her.
different link saying she has Federal agents protecting her? That one doesn't say anything of the sort.
Quote from: The Dancing Pickle on January 10, 2011, 09:03:36 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
On a side note.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/01/10/sarah-palin-stalker-shawn-christy-alaska-restraining-order/
QuoteA man who's been legally ordered to stay away from Sarah Palin is causing a new wave of concern in Alaska -- after federal agents learned he plans to visit Sarah's home state in the very near future.
Sarah Palin has federal agents protecting her.
different link saying she has Federal agents protecting her? That one doesn't say anything of the sort.
Sorry, youre right, It just states that he was being watched by the feds after a restraining order.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 08:24:49 PM
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 10, 2011, 08:13:53 PM
Quote from: The Ingenuous Hidalgo on January 10, 2011, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: Able on January 10, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
Maybe he did hear voices, if I recall the tinfoilers used to say Nixon thought his dog could talk to him :fnord:
I am here to teach you all to be really real Discordians.
Nice story, but i'm not sure how its relevant to the thread.
It isn't. It sure is OUTLANDISH, though!
Heh.
/threadwork in progress
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 10, 2011, 08:38:29 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 08:36:28 PM
He strikes me as a RAW type noob. Maybe he'll snap out of it.
I doubt it. Pinealism has a very low recovery rate.
Think it was ment for my intermitten issue
and poking fun of tinfoilers for talking dog theory
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 10, 2011, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on January 10, 2011, 07:56:58 PM
From one of the shooters threads on above top secret.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2dlr77n.jpg)
Link to thread?
I posted about this a few days ago:
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 10, 2011, 12:19:39 AM
You all should check this Reddit thread, some guy did a bit of really good google-fu digging*, found he used to post on Above Top Secret forums (huge tinfoil hat nuttery forum for those that don't know it), and is really quite insane indeed:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/
Also, some possibility that this wasnt quite politically motivated in the way people assume, something about his hatred for NASA and Gifford's connection with that: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/eyqt8/looks_like_jared_laughner_giffords_shooter_was_no/c1c01t7
If that is the case, it kind of reminds me how Pim Fortuyn got shot, not by a muslim or some other minority he pissed off, but by a radical animal rights / environmental activist.
*edit: evidence is sort of circumstantial, he basically searched for odd and nutty typical phrases the guy used in his youtube vids, in an attempt to cut through the media crud and find background on him. However it does seem to add up, and the phrases are quite specific, in their lopsided ways.
Thanks Trip. I remember seeing that now and saying to myself, "I'll click those later," and then forgetting about it entirely about a half hour later. Sorry about that.
I was kind of wondering, I'm not really following this news story closely (the whole teabagger movement sort of mystifies me, TBH), so I figured maybe it was just some unimportant conspiracy crap that seemed relevant.
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 11, 2011, 12:30:46 AM
I was kind of wondering, I'm not really following this news story closely (the whole teabagger movement sort of mystifies me, TBH), so I figured maybe it was just some unimportant conspiracy crap that seemed relevant.
Due to the circumstances, there's obviously going to be questions about his politics. The problem is, his politics are hard to figure out. His old friends say he's a leftist, but he obviously has some right wing ideas that are in line with the Tea Party. This is going to take more time to figure out than the AMerican public has the attention span for.
Why would the American public even care? The left thinks he's a right wing nutjob, and the right thinks he's a left wing nutjob. Neither side really seems to care about being wrong.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on January 11, 2011, 12:59:39 AM
Why would the American public even care? The left thinks he's a right wing nutjob, and the right thinks he's a left wing nutjob. Neither side really seems to care about being wrong.
American politics summed up in this post.
(http://i.imgur.com/4sI4w.jpg)
Why didnt anyone think of this sooner?
(http://i56.tinypic.com/spujcz.png)
Oh snap, I think Palin has officially been served.
Well that sums it up pretty well don't it?
Oh man I burst something laughing so hard.
Who was it that said Horrormirth was forced or ???
This is HYSTERICALLY awful.
And one of the victims was born on 911. I don't think it was a very auspicious date to be born on. At least, not for her.
Remington, from that collage I assume MSNBC and CNN is what Fox considers the "Left"? CNN, seriously?
What the American right thinks is left wing is what everyone else in the world considers socially libertarian, corporate friendly centre-right.
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 11, 2011, 08:24:35 AM
Remington, from that collage I assume MSNBC and CNN is what Fox considers the "Left"? CNN, seriously?
Everything to the left of Glenn Beck is "the left", nowadays.
Heh.
QuoteFirst you rile up psychotics with inflammatory language about tyranny, betrayal, and taking back the country. Then you make easy for them to get guns. But if you really want trouble, you should also make it hard for them to get treatment for mental illness. I don't know if Loughner had health insurance, but he falls into a pool of people who often go uninsured—not young enough to be covered by parents (until the health-care bill's coverage of twentysomethings kicked in a few months ago), not old enough for Medicare, not poor enough for Medicaid.
http://www.slate.com/id/2280711/
Small Government!
/
:awesome:
Wait just a damned minute. The shooter's name was "Loughner". That's pronounced "Loner", isn't it?
The Arizona Legislature is expected to pass legislation Tuesday that will bar protesters at funerals from getting within 300 feet of services, a spokesman for the state House said. The action, according to House spokesman Daniel Scarpinato, is in direct response to a controversial church's announcement that it will picket the funeral of Christina Green, the 9-year-old who was among six people killed during Saturday's attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona.
{snip}
In addition to the expected legislation, some Tucson residents are planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants to shield mourners from picketers. Angel actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/ari...ex.html?hpt=T2
I'll be damned.
They're pronouncing it "Laow-nehr".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 07:04:58 PM
They're pronouncing it "Laow-nehr".
Of course THEY are.
:tinfoilhat:
Quote from: Cain on January 11, 2011, 12:56:00 PM
What the American right thinks is left wing is what everyone else in the world considers socially libertarian, corporate friendly centre-right.
This. America's truly ignorant of world politics, though. Many would be shocked to find that their "middle of the road" is actually further right than most dictatorships.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 11, 2011, 07:03:26 PM
Wait just a damned minute. The shooter's name was "Loughner". That's pronounced "Loner", isn't it?
And that rhymes with, . . . *fnaar fnaar* BONER!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 11, 2011, 07:03:26 PM
Wait just a damned minute. The shooter's name was "Loughner". That's pronounced "Loner", isn't it?
I haven't heard his name pronounced, but I would have thought LOFF-ner.
Quote from: Jenne on January 11, 2011, 07:09:37 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 11, 2011, 12:56:00 PM
What the American right thinks is left wing is what everyone else in the world considers socially libertarian, corporate friendly centre-right.
This. America's truly ignorant of world politics, though. Many would be shocked to find that their "middle of the road" is actually further right than most dictatorships.
All dictatorships are left-wing, because dictatorships are about total government control, and that's socialism.
\
(http://www.dickipedia.org/images/Glenn-beck.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 11, 2011, 07:03:26 PM
Wait just a damned minute. The shooter's name was "Loughner". That's pronounced "Loner", isn't it?
Fucking Conspiracy thumbing it's nose at us. Again.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST :argh!:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1
Catcher in the fucking rye... called that shit
I bet those Angel Wings look reel purty, keeping the scorn and hate of the SinLizard Clan away from the mourning Party Faithful. And yes, my Brothers, and Sisters, we shall soon be free! Soon, Lord, soon! Oh Happy Day! Hallelujah, and hurry up Lord Jesus, RAPTURE your BELOVED Flock of Faithful Fuckwits, your rabble of frothing retards up into to Paradise, they've spent generations imminentising the eschaton, just so they can be RAPTURED SOONER, IN ORDER to dwell among THY SERVANTS. In Heaven. And I hope it's nice and Dull for them all. One Love, Jahjah, one Heart, one Heavenful of excess genetic material READY for collection. Like, now Dude!
Then maybe the rest of us can get on with something a bit more worthwhile than OBSERVING the fucking Pentecost! Or praying for absolution Codecs, and forgiveness Driver updates every two minutes from your Pimping Papal Pederastic Priests. (You'd better Rapture them too, really. Proving them wrong is better than what they can expect from us lot) My word, It's certainly going to be a lot meeker down here without your lot braying for each others lifeblood all the time. Now they can all be 'The Chosen People'. Somewhere far, far away. Now. Please. K,thnxbai.
Are you off your meds again?
Quote from: Epimetheus on January 11, 2011, 07:55:40 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST :argh!:
Trent Humphries says there is another innocent victim left by Jared Lee Loughner's killing of six people and wounding of 14 others in his assassination attempt against Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. It is his Tea Party movement and, more particularly, his family. The killings, he says, are evolving into a conspiracy to destroy his organisation and silence criticism of the government.
This made me throw up in my mouth.
From that article...
Quote from: Trent Humphries, Tea Party co-founderThe real case is that she [Giffords] had no security whatsoever at this event. So if she lived under a constant fear of being targeted, if she lived under this constant fear of this rhetoric and hatred that was seething, why would she attend an event in full view of the public with no security whatsoever?
You see,
it's her own fault she was shot.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 07:57:19 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
Are you off your meds again?
Who?
BadBeast. His last handful of posts have been... excitable.
Ah, I liked the idea of the angel wings shielding the mourners from the WBC.
That's actually been done a lot, it started with the Shepard funeral. I was talking about BadBeast's last posts in general, around the board.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
That's actually been done a lot, it started with the Shepard funeral. I was talking about BadBeast's last posts in general, around the board.
Gotcha.
Oh man, the right are playing the victim card on this for all it's worth. It was especially hilarious last night when Bill O spent the whole night going off on NBC and other "left wing media" types for shamelessly politicizing the events and not focusing on the real victims. The thing is, Bill O spent the whole hour talking about that and not the actual victims, meanwhile Keith Olbermann spent one of his segments talking about Giffords' condition, talking about other victims, and then interviewed the lady that helped tackle the shooter.
You can't make this shit up.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 07:57:19 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:54:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 11, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
Are you off your meds again?
Who?
BadBeast. His last handful of posts have been... excitable.
Just a little nervous, on behalf of all the little children. Because of the Special Relationship our two proud Nations have forged. (Largely, in the blood of innocents)
No offence or anything, but we'd be quite happy not to get tarred with the same oily brush that you've been marked out with. Oh no. We have Oil of our own, thanks all the same chaps. (Most of it floating around the Gulf Of Mexico somewhere)
It's like BadBeast is channeling Enki, Yatto, PurpleEris and hirley all at the same time.
The guy looks fucking tapped.
So has this guy been definitively linked to the Tea Party, the Republicans, Democrats, or any political side what so ever, in any way yet?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 11, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
It's like BadBeast is channeling Enki, Yatto, PurpleEris and hirley all at the same time.
:fap:
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
The brownshirts are being oppressed!
:vom:
Question for anyone who has an answer ready to hand. I'm in the middle of a whack of deadlines and don't have time to follow this story as much as I want to.
QuoteA nine-year-old girl lies in the morgue. A member of Congress faces a lifetime of struggle to recover from a bullet in the brain. A city is bracing itself for a string of funerals as it tries to fathom the carnage.
Why is it that murdering/assassinating a federal judge is already being framed as an oopsie? It's not even mentioned. Is it because of that line in one Arizona paper - 'He told his family he'd be attending the rally...' Is it because all the death threats he got are (like) sooo 2009? (links in one of cain's posts on page 2 and the wiki entry on the judge)
I don't get it at all... Any ideas?
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 07:46:05 PM
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1
Catcher in the fucking rye... called that shit
Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake."
Quote from: The Dancing Pickle on January 11, 2011, 08:15:35 PM
So has this guy been definitively linked to the Tea Party, the Republicans, Democrats, or any political side what so ever, in any way yet?
He's a troubled kid who likes to start shit is most of what I've read.
Only difference between him and a teabagger, is that he hated everyone.
As for the judge, depends on who they replaced him with. Its not unlike the DC snipper case where tinfoilers where asking if the guy with security clearance was the real target and the others were just for show.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 11, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
It's like BadBeast is channeling Enki, Yatto, PurpleEris and hirley all at the same time.
Or hes having a bi-polar episode.
Same difference.
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 07:46:05 PM
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1
Catcher in the fucking rye... called that shit
Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake."
Oh, it get's better. HEY ROGER. HE'S ONE OF
THOSE:
Once, Tierney recalls, Loughner told him, "I'm pretty sure I've come to the conclusion that
words mean nothing."
...
Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if
words have no meaning?'"
Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
---------------------------------------------------------
Now, I'm with you, Rog, words have concrete definitions. 'Meaning', tho, is not inherent in words in-and-of-themselves (Platonic bullshit). Meaning depends on Context. This is the point that our 'Lone Nut' here stumbled on and then seems to have fallen for the classic narcissistic Nihilist trap; that once he figured out that (
sans Context) words are 'just' arbitrarily arraigned symbols which point to nebulous concepts,
he clung to "XXX is meaningless" as Dogma.
"HAHAHA, I'm so much smarter than the Monkeys because I found the RIGHT DOGMA."
Quote from: Telarus on January 11, 2011, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 07:46:05 PM
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1
Catcher in the fucking rye... called that shit
Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake."
Oh, it get's better. HEY ROGER. HE'S ONE OF THOSE:
Once, Tierney recalls, Loughner told him, "I'm pretty sure I've come to the conclusion that words mean nothing."
...
Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"
Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
---------------------------------------------------------
Now, I'm with you, Rog, words have concrete definitions. 'Meaning', tho, is not inherent in words in-and-of-themselves (Platonic bullshit). Meaning depends on Context. This is the point that our 'Lone Nut' here stumbled on and then seems to have fallen for the classic narcissistic Nihilist trap; that once he figured out that (sans Context) words are 'just' arbitrarily arraigned symbols which point to nebulous concepts, he clung to "XXX is meaningless" as Dogma. "HAHAHA, I'm so much smarter than the Monkeys because I found the RIGHT DOGMA."
THIS!
:mittens:
Dogma ain't just for the religious!
Quote from: Telarus on January 11, 2011, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 07:46:05 PM
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1
Catcher in the fucking rye... called that shit
Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake."
Oh, it get's better. HEY ROGER. HE'S ONE OF THOSE:
Once, Tierney recalls, Loughner told him, "I'm pretty sure I've come to the conclusion that words mean nothing."
...
Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"
Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
---------------------------------------------------------
Now, I'm with you, Rog, words have concrete definitions. 'Meaning', tho, is not inherent in words in-and-of-themselves (Platonic bullshit). Meaning depends on Context. This is the point that our 'Lone Nut' here stumbled on and then seems to have fallen for the classic narcissistic Nihilist trap; that once he figured out that (sans Context) words are 'just' arbitrarily arraigned symbols which point to nebulous concepts, he clung to "XXX is meaningless" as Dogma. "HAHAHA, I'm so much smarter than the Monkeys because I found the RIGHT DOGMA."
Indeed.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST :argh!:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 11, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
It's like BadBeast is channeling Enki, Yatto, PurpleEris and hirley all at the same time.
Except that Bad Beast makes sense.
I love how he says "there's no evidence", but doesn't actually say "it wasn't our fault", or "we didn't cause this", or "we're not to blame".
CRTL-F searched the entire article for words like that, reread it, found nothing along those lines.
Quote from: Remington on January 11, 2011, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 11, 2011, 08:24:35 AM
Remington, from that collage I assume MSNBC and CNN is what Fox considers the "Left"? CNN, seriously?
Everything to the left of Glenn Beck is "the left", nowadays.
Well, Glenn Beck is an oak tree. So there.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 11, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
It's like BadBeast is channeling Enki, Yatto, PurpleEris and hirley all at the same time.
Yet still retaining that distinctive gravitas, and razor sharp wit we know so well.
Maybe.
It's not easy bein' a "channel" in a four way split like that one!
I would have thought.
Eta, Thanks Rog, I've always known I made something, now and again, but sense? I must be back in the room again! This whole thing goes a lot deeper than it appears to, didn't it Alice?
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:04:17 PM
The Arizona Legislature is expected to pass legislation Tuesday that will bar protesters at funerals from getting within 300 feet of services, a spokesman for the state House said. The action, according to House spokesman Daniel Scarpinato, is in direct response to a controversial church's announcement that it will picket the funeral of Christina Green, the 9-year-old who was among six people killed during Saturday's attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona.
{snip}
In addition to the expected legislation, some Tucson residents are planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants to shield mourners from picketers. Angel actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/ari...ex.html?hpt=T2
I'll be damned.
My friend who is friends with Rep Giffords and her husband are planning to be angels for Christina.
ETA: Apparently the angel positions were already filled by the time they applied, but my friend is going as a legal observer and her husband is going to be one of the people lining the street.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on January 11, 2011, 09:34:27 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:04:17 PM
The Arizona Legislature is expected to pass legislation Tuesday that will bar protesters at funerals from getting within 300 feet of services, a spokesman for the state House said. The action, according to House spokesman Daniel Scarpinato, is in direct response to a controversial church's announcement that it will picket the funeral of Christina Green, the 9-year-old who was among six people killed during Saturday's attempted assassination of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona.
{snip}
In addition to the expected legislation, some Tucson residents are planning an "angel action" -- with 8- by 10-foot "angel wings" worn by participants to shield mourners from picketers. Angel actions were created by Coloradan Romaine Patterson, who was shocked to find the Topeka church and its neon signs outside the 1999 funeral of Matthew Shepard, a young gay man beaten and left on a fence to die in Laramie, Wyoming.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/ari...ex.html?hpt=T2
I'll be damned.
My friend who is friends with Rep Giffords and her husband are planning to be angels for Christina.
Good for them, seriously. I hope the whole fucking city shows up.
Whether or not the shooter is linked to the Tea Party, the scrutiny of violent rhetoric is appropriate.
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They should've, but they're too busy behaving like pawns.
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
So your agreeing with the Tuscon Terrorbaggers playing the victim card
Vs we may disagree but at least we aren't those guys
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
So your agreeing with the Tuscon Terrorbaggers playing the victim card
Vs we may disagree but at least we aren't those guys
No, he's saying that they know that people are going to go fucking nuts over this and say "LOOK AT THIS SHIT!". If they were nice, it would be ignored.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 11, 2011, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
So your agreeing with the Tuscon Terrorbaggers playing the victim card
Vs we may disagree but at least we aren't those guys
No, he's saying that they know that people are going to go fucking nuts over this and say "LOOK AT THIS SHIT!". If they were nice, it would be ignored.
This ratchair.
Isn't don't retreat, RELOAD
Very simular to toaster dogma of always attack, never defend?
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:57:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 11, 2011, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
So your agreeing with the Tuscon Terrorbaggers playing the victim card
Vs we may disagree but at least we aren't those guys
No, he's saying that they know that people are going to go fucking nuts over this and say "LOOK AT THIS SHIT!". If they were nice, it would be ignored.
This ratchair.
Politics is different, ignoring the troll only goes so far
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:57:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 11, 2011, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Able on January 11, 2011, 10:19:34 PM
Indeed instead of whining woe is me, they could have denounced wbc
They get more mileage from bad press.
So your agreeing with the Tuscon Terrorbaggers playing the victim card
Vs we may disagree but at least we aren't those guys
No, he's saying that they know that people are going to go fucking nuts over this and say "LOOK AT THIS SHIT!". If they were nice, it would be ignored.
This ratchair.
Politics is different, ignoring the troll only goes so far
The press doesn't cover nice.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:58:23 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on January 11, 2011, 07:55:40 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 11, 2011, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST :argh!:
Trent Humphries says there is another innocent victim left by Jared Lee Loughner's killing of six people and wounding of 14 others in his assassination attempt against Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. It is his Tea Party movement and, more particularly, his family. The killings, he says, are evolving into a conspiracy to destroy his organisation and silence criticism of the government.
This made me throw up in my mouth.
Trent Humphries can blow me.
Collateral damage (of a sort), Anthony Miller, GOP district chairman for Arizona, who narrowly beat a Tea Party candidate backed by Sheriff Joe for his post, is quitting.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2011/01/11/20110111gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-resignations.html#ixzz1AowZXHq1
QuoteMiller said when he was a member of McCain's campaign staff last year has been criticized by the more conservative party members who supported Republican opponent J.D. Hayworth. The first and only African-American to hold the party's precinct chairmanship, Miller said he has been called "McCain's boy," and during the campaign saw a critic form his hand in the shape of a gun and point it at him.
"I wasn't going to resign but decided to quit after what happened Saturday," Miller said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone."
Four of his lieutenants also resigned their posts.
Makes one wonder how far the ripple effects will be felt.
In lighter news, I found this amusing
http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/10/12347
QuoteUsually people blame the 2nd amendment for a mass shooting. This time they're blaming the 1st. But why not all the others? Consider:
Amendment 3: If we were able to quarter The Troops in every neighborhood, we could prevent more of these tragedies.
Amendments 4-8: All of these amendments get in the way of prosecutors and cops trying to fight crime.
Amendment 9: Everybody talks about individual rights but never responsibilities. The culture of individualism fostered by the 9th is part of the societal decline that leads to these tragedies.
Amendment 10: Limits of federal power inhibit more effective federal coordination of crime-prevention activities.
Amendment 11: Again, this is part of a federalism agenda that inhibits effective coordination at the federal level.
Amendment 12: If the VP were the candidate who got the second highest vote total, we'd have John McCain as VP, and he'd, um, something.
Amendment 13: Young punks these days could stand a bit of involuntary servitude to whip them into shape.
Amendments 14-15: Liberal bullshit.
Amendment 16: Without income taxes, shooters would be incentivized to work harder at a job instead of killing people.
Amendment 17: The death of federalism and rise of Big Government are the REAL reasons for violent crime. (Yes, this contradicts most of the previous items on this list, but nowhere in the Blame Game Players Handbook does it say that you have to be consistent.)
Amendment 18: Prohibition just fosters more crime and violence.
Amendment 19: You let Ann Coulter* vote, and predictably the world goes to hell.
Amendment 20: If Congress were still in a lame duck session, they'd be so busy enacting Obama's legislative and foreign policy agenda that they wouldn't have had time to appear in public.
Amendment 21: Alcohol just fosters crime and violence. (Regarding the inconsistency with item 18, see the note on 17.)
Amendment 22: If Ronald Reagan were President for Eternity (a la Kim Il Sung) none of this would have happened.
Amendment 23: I dunno, something.
Amendment 24: The lack of a poll tax deprives law enforcement and social services of the resources needed to prevent these tragedies.
Amendment 25: This amendment didn't actually cause the tragedy, but by restricting its succession provisions to Presidents but not members of Congress, it inhibits a timely and effective response when a member of Congress is incapacitated.
Amendment 26: You let kids these days vote, and predictably the world goes to hell.
Amendment 27: Inadequate compensation for Senators and Representatives just leads to sub-par policy-making, with predictable consequences for increased violent crime.
*She argued against the 19th at one point, so I'm singling her out.
Butthurt Palin.
Sarah Palin spoke out on the Arizona shootings Wednesday, calling the events "tragic" and sharply chastising those who have suggested charged rhetoric from her and others on the right may have motivated the killings.
"Like many, I've spent the past few days reflecting on what happened and praying for guidance. After this shocking tragedy, I listened at first puzzled, then with concern, and now with sadness, to the irresponsible statements from people attempting to apportion blame for this terrible event," Palin said in a video posted on her Facebook page.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/12/palin-says-efforts-to-lay-blame-reprehensible/#more-142708
Yes, Roger, she has a facebook page. :evil:
A thought about the "vitriolic political speech" angle.
Palin's camp has said that political rhetoric in no way has or can influenced the physical violence that occurred, or will occur. They claim that sort of language is not provocative.
However, at the same time they are denying that the symbols used on the now-infamous map were ever crosshairs.
Which means they tacitly admit there is something basically wrong about using crosshairs to target your opponent.
So it appears that they are trying to have it both ways.
Quote from: Cain on January 12, 2011, 03:55:15 PM
In lighter news, I found this amusing
http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/10/12347
QuoteUsually people blame the 2nd amendment for a mass shooting. This time they're blaming the 1st. But why not all the others? Consider:
Amendment 3: If we were able to quarter The Troops in every neighborhood, we could prevent more of these tragedies.
Amendments 4-8: All of these amendments get in the way of prosecutors and cops trying to fight crime.
Amendment 9: Everybody talks about individual rights but never responsibilities. The culture of individualism fostered by the 9th is part of the societal decline that leads to these tragedies.
Amendment 10: Limits of federal power inhibit more effective federal coordination of crime-prevention activities.
Amendment 11: Again, this is part of a federalism agenda that inhibits effective coordination at the federal level.
Amendment 12: If the VP were the candidate who got the second highest vote total, we'd have John McCain as VP, and he'd, um, something.
Amendment 13: Young punks these days could stand a bit of involuntary servitude to whip them into shape.
Amendments 14-15: Liberal bullshit.
Amendment 16: Without income taxes, shooters would be incentivized to work harder at a job instead of killing people.
Amendment 17: The death of federalism and rise of Big Government are the REAL reasons for violent crime. (Yes, this contradicts most of the previous items on this list, but nowhere in the Blame Game Players Handbook does it say that you have to be consistent.)
Amendment 18: Prohibition just fosters more crime and violence.
Amendment 19: You let Ann Coulter* vote, and predictably the world goes to hell.
Amendment 20: If Congress were still in a lame duck session, they'd be so busy enacting Obama's legislative and foreign policy agenda that they wouldn't have had time to appear in public.
Amendment 21: Alcohol just fosters crime and violence. (Regarding the inconsistency with item 18, see the note on 17.)
Amendment 22: If Ronald Reagan were President for Eternity (a la Kim Il Sung) none of this would have happened.
Amendment 23: I dunno, something.
Amendment 24: The lack of a poll tax deprives law enforcement and social services of the resources needed to prevent these tragedies.
Amendment 25: This amendment didn't actually cause the tragedy, but by restricting its succession provisions to Presidents but not members of Congress, it inhibits a timely and effective response when a member of Congress is incapacitated.
Amendment 26: You let kids these days vote, and predictably the world goes to hell.
Amendment 27: Inadequate compensation for Senators and Representatives just leads to sub-par policy-making, with predictable consequences for increased violent crime.
*She argued against the 19th at one point, so I'm singling her out.
:lulz:
Amendment 23: Liberal assholes in D.C. voted for Obama, and if McCain had won, all of those other pesky amendments wouldn't matter.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 12, 2011, 04:15:06 PM
A thought about the "vitriolic political speech" angle.
Palin's camp has said that political rhetoric in no way has or can influenced the physical violence that occurred, or will occur. They claim that sort of language is not provocative.
However, at the same time they are denying that the symbols used on the now-infamous map were ever crosshairs.
Which means they tacitly admit there is something basically wrong about using crosshairs to target your opponent.
So it appears that they are trying to have it both ways.
I can't get surprised about the backpedal here. The very fact that the map came down so fast speaks volumes.
As annoying as I find Sarah Palin, and she really irritates the hell out of me, she isn't really that stupid. She just likes people to think she is.
This will come around to her being a victim, just watch.
Already has. Palin has says media critics are conducting a "blood libel" against her, and the term is spreading around the blogosphere like an amusing cat picture with a misspelled caption.
Blood Libel?
Really?
...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=palin+blood+libel&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=596&prmd=ivnsu&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=atYtTarJN8LNhAeYsKzOCQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQqAIwAA
:lulz:
I'm thinking she really has no actual clue as to what that term means.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110112/ts_afp/uscrimeshootingpoliticspalin_20110112150859 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110112/ts_afp/uscrimeshootingpoliticspalin_20110112150859)
Quote"Especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence that they purport to condemn," she said in an online video message.
Yeah, maybe she is
really that stupid.
She's this far from outing herself as having been trolling US politics for the past four years.
Quote from: Niamh on January 12, 2011, 04:35:49 PM
:lulz:
I'm thinking she really has no actual clue as to what that term means.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110112/ts_afp/uscrimeshootingpoliticspalin_20110112150859 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110112/ts_afp/uscrimeshootingpoliticspalin_20110112150859)
Quote"Especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence that they purport to condemn," she said in an online video message.
Yeah, maybe she is really that stupid.
She has certainly convinced me.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 12, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
She's this far from outing herself as having been trolling US politics for the past four years.
Oh, no, if that were true, I'd have to respect her. The sheer audacity of it.... motherfuck.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 12, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
She's this far from outing herself as having been trolling US politics for the past four years.
You have to wonder don't you?
I mean I cannot understand how anyone can take her seriously.
I will never get past her quitting her last elected political position. Why vote her into another one that will definately be harder. So she can what? Quit being president?
So this is interesting... among at least some christian groups, "blood libel" has a more convoluted meaning.
I have heard the term used several times (incorrectly I might add) to reference the idea of 'bloodguilt by association'. This seems to be a Christian interpretation of Jewish beliefs. Basically it says that the associates and supporters of the bloodguilty are themselves bloodguilty. The interpretation is based (loosely) with the Jewish system of Atonement, Yom Kippur and the Cities of Refuge. The idea definitely has some roots in the Jewish system (which is why the scene with Pilot and the Jews makes any sense whatsoever). The annual sacrifice of the goat for Azazel is interpreted in this view as paying the annual price for the bloodguilt of the nation. Even if 'Bob' wasn't personally responsible for any bloodguilt, he had 'blood libel' because he was part of a nation which had blood either due to war or simply the behavior of humans, including instances of manslaughter.
Its very much tied to the idea that all humans are sinners simply by virtue of being human. all humans are bloodguilty, simply because they are part of the human race which kills lots of people.
So in that context, I can see her using the term. However, I think that speaks to her viewpoint and understanding of things... ill-informed protestant plebes may well use the term "blood libel" in the context she is using it. IE she is being accused of bloodguilt by association.
I think this is just Palin saying the media is persecuting her in the same way those who use the blood libel persecute the Jews. Because Palin is secretly kinda Jewish, by virtue of supporting Israel, being Christian, being able to see Russia from her house, batshit insanity clauses and you're not the boss of her.
Quote from: Cain on January 12, 2011, 05:28:13 PM
I think this is just Palin saying the media is persecuting her in the same way those who use the blood libel persecute the Jews. Because Palin is secretly kinda Jewish, by virtue of supporting Israel, being Christian, being able to see Russia from her house, batshit insanity clauses and you're not the boss of her.
:lulz:
:mittens:
Yeah, she's a kitchen-sinker alright. I swear someone handed her the "Bible-thunking Honkies Handbook to Politicking from the Right"...
Tea Bagging for Dummies.
Quote from: Jenne on January 12, 2011, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 12, 2011, 05:28:13 PM
I think this is just Palin saying the media is persecuting her in the same way those who use the blood libel persecute the Jews. Because Palin is secretly kinda Jewish, by virtue of supporting Israel, being Christian, being able to see Russia from her house, batshit insanity clauses and you're not the boss of her.
:lulz:
:mittens:
Yeah, she's a kitchen-sinker alright. I swear someone handed her the "Bible-thunking Honkies Handbook to Politicking from the Right"...
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 12, 2011, 05:40:56 PM
Tea Bagging for Dummies.
Now now, I am sure she would refudiate all of those remarks..... :lulz:
Quote from: Agent Rhizome on January 11, 2011, 08:17:11 PM
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on January 11, 2011, 07:41:52 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/11/arizona-shootings-tea-party
The brownshirts are being oppressed!
:vom:
Question for anyone who has an answer ready to hand. I'm in the middle of a whack of deadlines and don't have time to follow this story as much as I want to.
QuoteA nine-year-old girl lies in the morgue. A member of Congress faces a lifetime of struggle to recover from a bullet in the brain. A city is bracing itself for a string of funerals as it tries to fathom the carnage.
Why is it that murdering/assassinating a federal judge is already being framed as an oopsie? It's not even mentioned. Is it because of that line in one Arizona paper - 'He told his family he'd be attending the rally...' Is it because all the death threats he got are (like) sooo 2009? (links in one of cain's posts on page 2 and the wiki entry on the judge)
I don't get it at all... Any ideas?
Not all the way caught up on this,. but it seems the judge was an oops. Or at least an unexpected twofer. It's my understanding that it wasn't widely known that he was going to be there and was really just dropping in to say hi to Giffords.
The emergence of Sarah Palin from her bunker has emboldened Nevada's Sharron Angle to throw her hate (oops! I mean "hat") into the ring.
Infamous for invoking "Second Amendment remedies" repeatedly in her campaign speeches, Angle now whines that her First Amendment rights are being "infringed upon" — because she's being criticized.
"Expanding the context of the attack to blame and to infringe upon the people's Constitutional liberties is both dangerous and ignorant," she said.
And of course, the other mandatory inversion: she also says that criticizing her violent rhetoric could cause violence.
"The irresponsible assignment of blame to me, Sarah Palin or the Tea Party movement by commentators and elected officials puts all who gather to redress grievances in danger."
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/37890_Sharron_Angle-_Accusing_Me_of_Violent_Rhetoric_Could_Cause_Violence#rss
:lulz:
The gift that keeps giving.
The First Amendment does not prevent the public and the media for calling you on your bullshit!
:argh!: :weary: :deadhorse:
For people who claim to be all about the Constitution they seem to fail repeatedly on what it actually says.
...and Sharron Angle can blow me too.
Sucks when there's RESPONSIBILITY that comes with incindiary speech, huh? Sucks when you get all famous and shit and people actually pay the fuck attention to your baboon babbling.
Poor widdow Angle. Poor widdow thing. She can't get away with (hinting at) murder.
*SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB*
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 12, 2011, 09:25:02 PM
The emergence of Sarah Palin from her bunker has emboldened Nevada's Sharron Angle to throw her hate (oops! I mean "hat") into the ring.
Infamous for invoking "Second Amendment remedies" repeatedly in her campaign speeches, Angle now whines that her First Amendment rights are being "infringed upon" — because she's being criticized.
"Expanding the context of the attack to blame and to infringe upon the people's Constitutional liberties is both dangerous and ignorant," she said.
And of course, the other mandatory inversion: she also says that criticizing her violent rhetoric could cause violence.
"The irresponsible assignment of blame to me, Sarah Palin or the Tea Party movement by commentators and elected officials puts all who gather to redress grievances in danger."
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/37890_Sharron_Angle-_Accusing_Me_of_Violent_Rhetoric_Could_Cause_Violence#rss
:lulz:
The gift that keeps giving.
That last part sounds like a threat to me.
Yes it does.
It's funny how few people really understand free speech.
Free speech doesn't mean never being criticized, in fact it often means the opposite; it means you have the right to say what you want, and also means that others have the right to laugh at the stupid fuckery that you just said.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 12, 2011, 10:15:53 PM
It's funny how few people really understand free speech.
Free speech doesn't mean never being criticized, in fact it often means the opposite; it means you have the right to say what you want, and also means that others have the right to laugh at the stupid fuckery that you just said.
Exactly.
The map is back up and renamed.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=373854973434
Quote from: Niamh on January 12, 2011, 04:45:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 12, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
She's this far from outing herself as having been trolling US politics for the past four years.
You have to wonder don't you?
I mean I cannot understand how anyone can take her seriously.
Here is the rub. And I think there's a valuable lesson here. I don't think we're supposed to take any of them seriously. I mean, every election, wherever it is, people vote their representatives into exalted and priviliged positions of power, in the vain hope, that now
their candidate is up there, maybe they'll do something that really does represent their best interests. But there always seems to be some reason why they can't actually do any of the things they promised to, when they were all smiles, and asking for your support. And this is what makes me spit, every time one of them is unmasked as a lying, fraudulent, freeloader, only serving the interests of his own little cadre of arselickers, moneymen, and spin doctors, the ever suffering electorate somehow manage to give an impression of horrified shock and outrage! Wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth about "How could this Crook do it to them" after all the promises and wheedling sycophantic Manifesto rhetoric.
"Oh, they've let the people down again!"
NO, The PEOPLE let THEMSELVES down, By falling for the SAME FUCKING LINES of TIRED OLD BULLSHIT, TIME after TIME, after TIME!
What did they expect? With a little applied rationale, it is glaringly obvious that the Candidates ALL tell whatever lies they have to in order to achieve Office. What makes everyone think that this time, it will be any different.
If you bought a Guard Dog, to look after your property while you were out, and then when you returned, the vicious bastard wouldn't let you back in your House, would you take measures to remove the fucker, or would you just say "Oh well, I can go and live in a Dumpster instead"?
Bush was a rabid Pitbull, with very little intellect, and a propensity to bite whenever he got lost for words. So in order to oust the fucker, somehow Obama was installed. supposedly a more intelligent, and socially skilled Guard dog. A Doberman perhaps, to Bush's Pit.
Then everyone gets surprised again when the Doberman turns out to have a yellow streak a mile wide, and ends up licking the arses of all the people you needed a Guard Dog to protect yourself from in the first place!
It's not specifically an American thing. We fall for the same old bunch of lying, greasy Turds every time too. Look at who's running the show for us now. Laurel and fucking Hardy could do a better job of it.
Let's face it, nothing is ever going to change for the better, if we keep installing Poachers to look after the Game. Maybe we should have a random Parliament Duty thing, like a Jury Duty system, where anyone picked by the machine, had to do serve a term in Parliament, by Law. Whether they wanted to or not. Qualified, or not.
That way, anyone who sought out a position of power, would be safely prevented from sucking every scaly cock that would get him a rung closer to the job.
The dubious qualities that bring people within reach of power, are the very flaws, that should never bet let anywhere near it, without being muzzled, collared, and kept on a short chain.
Or even, like Lenny was, taken around the back, with Curly's old gun, "To see da wabbits, George, and feed them, and pet them, and love them and . . . ." Boom!
No-one blamed George for doing the dirty work then, so why isn't anyone stepping up to the mark today?
Where are all the Redeemers? The Shining heroes? The Dragonslayers? Did they get tired of waiting around, while the fuckstock got ever more assprone? Did they decide we no longer deserved thier services? Or are they just holding out for a better price?
Interesting times? Get to fuck!
Nice rant!
Thanks Mate, I'm just building up to a full head of steam!
Quote from: BadBeast on January 12, 2011, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: Niamh on January 12, 2011, 04:45:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 12, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
She's this far from outing herself as having been trolling US politics for the past four years.
You have to wonder don't you?
I mean I cannot understand how anyone can take her seriously.
Here is the rub. And I think there's a valuable lesson here. I don't think we're supposed to take any of them seriously. I mean, every election, wherever it is, people vote their representatives into exalted and priviliged positions of power, in the vain hope, that now their candidate is up there, maybe they'll do something that really does represent their best interests. But there always seems to be some reason why they can't actually do any of the things they promised to, when they were all smiles, and asking for your support. And this is what makes me spit, every time one of them is unmasked as a lying, fraudulent, freeloader, only serving the interests of his own little cadre of arselickers, moneymen, and spin doctors, the ever suffering electorate somehow manage to give an impression of horrified shock and outrage! Wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth about "How could this Crook do it to them" after all the promises and wheedling sycophantic Manifesto rhetoric.
"Oh, they've let the people down again!"
NO, The PEOPLE let THEMSELVES down, By falling for the SAME FUCKING LINES of TIRED OLD BULLSHIT, TIME after TIME, after TIME!
What did they expect? With a little applied rationale, it is glaringly obvious that the Candidates ALL tell whatever lies they have to in order to achieve Office. What makes everyone think that this time, it will be any different.
If you bought a Guard Dog, to look after your property while you were out, and then when you returned, the vicious bastard wouldn't let you back in your House, would you take measures to remove the fucker, or would you just say "Oh well, I can go and live in a Dumpster instead"?
Bush was a rabid Pitbull, with very little intellect, and a propensity to bite whenever he got lost for words. So in order to oust the fucker, somehow Obama was installed. supposedly a more intelligent, and socially skilled Guard dog. A Doberman perhaps, to Bush's Pit.
Then everyone gets surprised again when the Doberman turns out to have a yellow streak a mile wide, and ends up licking the arses of all the people you needed a Guard Dog to protect yourself from in the first place!
It's not specifically an American thing. We fall for the same old bunch of lying, greasy Turds every time too. Look at who's running the show for us now. Laurel and fucking Hardy could do a better job of it.
Let's face it, nothing is ever going to change for the better, if we keep installing Poachers to look after the Game. Maybe we should have a random Parliament Duty thing, like a Jury Duty system, where anyone picked by the machine, had to do serve a term in Parliament, by Law. Whether they wanted to or not. Qualified, or not.
That way, anyone who sought out a position of power, would be safely prevented from sucking every scaly cock that would get him a rung closer to the job.
The dubious qualities that bring people within reach of power, are the very flaws, that should never bet let anywhere near it, without being muzzled, collared, and kept on a short chain.
Or even, like Lenny was, taken around the back, with Curly's old gun, "To see da wabbits, George, and feed them, and pet them, and love them and . . . ." Boom!
No-one blamed George for doing the dirty work then, so why isn't anyone stepping up to the mark today?
Where are all the Redeemers? The Shining heroes? The Dragonslayers? Did they get tired of waiting around, while the fuckstock got ever more assprone? Did they decide we no longer deserved thier services? Or are they just holding out for a better price?
Interesting times? Get to fuck!
:potd:
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 12, 2011, 11:02:41 PM
The map is back up and renamed.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=373854973434
Renamed what? Nanny wall is blocking my view. Help a spag out.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 12, 2011, 11:02:41 PM
The map is back up and renamed.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=373854973434
Renamed what? Nanny wall is blocking my view. Help a spag out.
Don't Get Demoralized! Get Organized! Take Back the 20!
It still has the crosshairs though.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 12, 2011, 09:28:57 PM
The First Amendment does not prevent the public and the media for calling you on your bullshit!
:argh!: :weary: :deadhorse:
For people who claim to be all about the Constitution they seem to fail repeatedly on what it actually says.
The 1st Amendment tells me that I can insult the shit out of your point of view as much as I want.
Quote from: Suu on January 13, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 12, 2011, 09:28:57 PM
The First Amendment does not prevent the public and the media for calling you on your bullshit!
:argh!: :weary: :deadhorse:
For people who claim to be all about the Constitution they seem to fail repeatedly on what it actually says.
The 1st Amendment tells me that I can insult the shit out of your point of view as much as I want.
I'll tell my mommy!
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 12, 2011, 11:02:41 PM
The map is back up and renamed.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=373854973434
Renamed what? Nanny wall is blocking my view. Help a spag out.
Don't Get Demoralized! Get Organized! Take Back the 20!
It still has the crosshairs though.
Lesson learned. As long as you are subtle enough, you can advocate violence against the government and get away with it.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 03:28:38 PM
Quote from: Suu on January 13, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on January 12, 2011, 09:28:57 PM
The First Amendment does not prevent the public and the media for calling you on your bullshit!
:argh!: :weary: :deadhorse:
For people who claim to be all about the Constitution they seem to fail repeatedly on what it actually says.
The 1st Amendment tells me that I can insult the shit out of your point of view as much as I want.
I'll tell my mommy!
And what is she going to do?
We'll aim for these races and many others. This is just the first salvo in a fight to elect people across the nation who will bring common sense to Washington. Please go to sarahpac.com and join me in the fight.
Stand tall, America. Real change is coming!
- Sarah Palin
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
They will say she's just all butthurt about being shot and that she should grow a pair.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
They will say she's just all butthurt about being shot and that she should grow a pair.
They'll say that she's still a Democrat, and they won't listen anyway.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
Oh no. I want Giffords to demand the head of Sarah Palin on a silver platter.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 13, 2011, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
Oh no. I want Giffords to demand the head of Sarah Palin on a silver platter.
And then the Teabaggers will say that the Dems are inciting violence.
I keep hoping for the moment when Frodo says, "I'll take it." and everybody from both sides just shuts the fuck up in a wildly optimistic moment of hope.
Then I wake up.
Quote from: Suu on January 13, 2011, 03:39:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 13, 2011, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
Oh no. I want Giffords to demand the head of Sarah Palin on a silver platter.
And then the Teabaggers will say that the Dems are inciting violence.
So?
Yeah, except the Dems and the Repubs play for Team Sauron. Not sure which one is the Uruks and which one is the Orcs. Well, the Dems definitely couldn't be the Uruks, they're too wimpy.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:46:23 PM
Yeah, except the Dems and the Repubs play for Team Sauron. Not sure which one is the Uruks and which one is the Orcs. Well, the Dems definitely couldn't be the Uruks, they're too wimpy.
Crap, we should figure out who is what character. That might be fun.
Obama could be Sarouman.
edit/
Won't work, there are not enough good guys to cast it.
As much as I'd like to see irresponsible teabaggers* get spanked for provoking the Gifford shooting and, perhaps, see a decline in the xenophobia and know-nothingisms, I really don't think you can pin this shooting on Palin, or any specific person. Or party, even.
During a storm, you get a collection of negatively charged ions clustering together. At some critical point, the charge in the clouds zaps down to ground. You can't point to a single ion and say, "that one did it". You also can't point to half of the ions and say, "they did it".
The entire country is negatively charged, and one poor deranged schmuck went haywire because of it.
And because of Quantum.
*Redundant.
Sarah Palin recurre al antisemitismo para replicar a quienes la vinculan con el tiroteo de Tucson
La ex gobernadora de Alaska y líder del 'Tea Party' utiliza para defenderse el término "libelo de sangre", una frase histórica para arremeter contra los judíos.- La congresista Gabrielle Giffords es judía
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Sarah/Palin/recurre/antisemitismo/replicar/quienes/vinculan/tiroteo/Tucson/elpepuint/20110112elpepuint_12/Tes
Sarah Palin resorts to anti-Semitism to reply to those who link with the shooting of Tucson The former Alaska governor and leader of the 'Tea Party' used to defend the term "blood libel", a historical statement to attack the Jews .- The Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is Jewish
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Even reporters in Spain don't fact check stories.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 13, 2011, 04:07:11 PM
As much as I'd like to see irresponsible teabaggers* get spanked for provoking the Gifford shooting and, perhaps, see a decline in the xenophobia and know-nothingisms, I really don't think you can pin this shooting on Palin, or any specific person. Or party, even.
During a storm, you get a collection of negatively charged ions clustering together. At some critical point, the charge in the clouds zaps down to ground. You can't point to a single ion and say, "that one did it". You also can't point to half of the ions and say, "they did it".
The entire country is negatively charged, and one poor deranged schmuck went haywire because of it.
And because of Quantum.
*Redundant.
Precisely.
It's always possible this stuff was one of the bars in his BIP, on a subconscious level, but there's no way to prove that. Besides, the only solution for that is for everyone to live in a mind-vacuum.
But, rightly or wrongly, the fact that Palin did have this map that did have a gunsight on Gifford's district, and listed her by name, well, as coincidental as it is, it's still a bit jarring. And I think THAT'S why it is a good time to re-evaluate the political discourse.
Not because it caused the incident, but because the incident has us thinking about it. That's the only time we like to talk about things like this. When something bad happens to make us think about it.
Let's say this didn't happen, and Joe Democrat stands up and says, "You know, this gun talk is getting a little crazy. Let's talk and do something about it." He'd get ignored. Nobody wants to talk about it if it didn't cause anything. Even if it IS really bad and IS really hurting any chance to make meaningful progress in this country.
But even if you make this argument, that the reason we should talk about it is because everyone is thinking about it, you will automatically get spun as someone who is directly blaming Palin and her pals. And then the conversation is shut off.
People can't just shut up and listen to each other.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 04:19:38 PM
It's always possible this stuff was one of the bars in his BIP, on a subconscious level, but there's no way to prove that. Besides, the only solution for that is for everyone to live in a mind-vacuum.
But, rightly or wrongly, the fact that Palin did have this map that did have a gunsight on Gifford's district, and listed her by name, well, as coincidental as it is, it's still a bit jarring. And I think THAT'S why it is a good time to re-evaluate the political discourse.
Not because it caused the incident, but because the incident has us thinking about it. That's the only time we like to talk about things like this. When something bad happens to make us think about it.
Let's say this didn't happen, and Joe Democrat stands up and says, "You know, this gun talk is getting a little crazy. Let's talk and do something about it." He'd get ignored. Nobody wants to talk about it if it didn't cause anything. Even if it IS really bad and IS really hurting any chance to make meaningful progress in this country.
But even if you make this argument, that the reason we should talk about it is because everyone is thinking about it, you will automatically get spun as someone who is directly blaming Palin and her pals. And then the conversation is shut off.
People can't just shut up and listen to each other.
And next time something like this happens, the same result will occur. Hell, in a few years we may have enough evidence to classify it as a scientific theory. "Theory of Violence and Political Rhetoric". But fuck it. Let's take violent rhetoric to it's logical extreme. We are just a short step from using words like "genocide", "holocaust", "political cleansing", and other such charged words. Maybe people will wise up then. Or maybe not.
They won't.
I just remembered this. I think I will put it on Palins fb page.
"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 04:48:07 PM
I just remembered this. I think I will put it on Palins fb page.
"But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned," (Matt. 12:36).
Oh fuck yeah. :mittens: :fuckmittens: :mittens:
Dammit. I can't comment on her page.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
Dammit. I can't comment on her page.
Yeah, so I noticed. Maybe we should all friend her. Add her to the Discordian gro--
:fnord:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:33:47 PM
I have to admit, purely on a political theater level, I really hope that Giffords makes a full recovery, or, at least enough where she can still speak, etc. I really want to see what happens when she speaks out against the rhetoric. I really want to see how the GOP and the right counter the actual shooting victim calling them out for their bullshit.
Given her record and her political position (Blue Dog), she'll ask permission first.
Maybe someone could persuade Sarah to do a big "R" (For "Rapture") on the Westboro Baptists, in the next edition of "Sarah's little book of Spells". She might even think her "Inner Witch" is waking up, as a sign she's coming into her "Cone of Power". I think she should totally start posting in TCC. As "Moosewitch". Then she could make Ruby one of her advisors.
Groom her for Hilarious Clinton's job.
President Palin, and her faithful sidekick, w00By. Sharon Stone could play Sarah in the Movie. And Will Smith could probably do Barry, better than Barry can. Call it "Witch Queen of Alaska". Or something
Sarah Pagan GASM?
Create propaganda about Palin being a pagan, demon-worshipping occultist.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:46:23 PM
Yeah, except the Dems and the Repubs play for Team Sauron. Not sure which one is the Uruks and which one is the Orcs. Well, the Dems definitely couldn't be the Uruks, they're too wimpy.
Crap, we should figure out who is what character. That might be fun.
Obama could be Sarouman.
edit/
Won't work, there are not enough good guys to cast it.
Sure there are, they just aren't public figures.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/237055/RUSHLIMBAUGH.jpg)
It's just a coincidence, but it's an unfortunate one nonetheless. Reddit user carblos was in Tucson, near the site of the Arizona shooting, and noticed this billboard for Rush Limbaugh's radio show:
The billboard has apparently been there for quite some time, but Limbaugh's people might want to take it down now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/rush-limbaughs-tucson-billboard_n_808563.html?ref=twitter
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/237055/RUSHLIMBAUGH.jpg)
It's just a coincidence, but it's an unfortunate one nonetheless. Reddit user carblos was in Tucson, near the site of the Arizona shooting, and noticed this billboard for Rush Limbaugh's radio show:
The billboard has apparently been there for quite some time, but Limbaugh's people might want to take it down now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/rush-limbaughs-tucson-billboard_n_808563.html?ref=twitter
... That's not very straight shooting. :lulz:
No.
Look, I'm obviously not a big Rush Limbaugh fan. But the best thing to do is just let it be and not draw attention to it. It's just another distraction AND it gives that fat attention whore more attention. He'd wallow in that shit for days.
He's an irrelevant shit-head, who cares.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 05:44:52 PM
No.
Look, I'm obviously not a big Rush Limbaugh fan. But the best thing to do is just let it be and not draw attention to it. It's just another distraction AND it gives that fat attention whore more attention. He'd wallow in that shit for days.
He's an irrelevant shit-head, who cares.
Because it's funny. And Roger has some explaining to do for Tucson. :lulz:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 05:44:52 PM
No.
Look, I'm obviously not a big Rush Limbaugh fan. But the best thing to do is just let it be and not draw attention to it. It's just another distraction AND it gives that fat attention whore more attention. He'd wallow in that shit for days.
He's an irrelevant shit-head, who cares.
Irrelevant? Try telling that to about half the people 'round these parts.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 13, 2011, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 05:38:30 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/237055/RUSHLIMBAUGH.jpg)
It's just a coincidence, but it's an unfortunate one nonetheless. Reddit user carblos was in Tucson, near the site of the Arizona shooting, and noticed this billboard for Rush Limbaugh's radio show:
The billboard has apparently been there for quite some time, but Limbaugh's people might want to take it down now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/rush-limbaughs-tucson-billboard_n_808563.html?ref=twitter
... That's not very straight shooting. :lulz:
Yeah, that shot 'group' is all over the board. :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 13, 2011, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 05:44:52 PM
No.
Look, I'm obviously not a big Rush Limbaugh fan. But the best thing to do is just let it be and not draw attention to it. It's just another distraction AND it gives that fat attention whore more attention. He'd wallow in that shit for days.
He's an irrelevant shit-head, who cares.
Irrelevant? Try telling that to about half the people 'round these parts.
Okay, well he
should be irrelevant.
Here ya go RWHN.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs454.ash1/24972_382925783587_24718773587_3655178_2736968_n.jpg)
I'm blinded by Websense.
damn
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 03:46:23 PM
Yeah, except the Dems and the Repubs play for Team Sauron. Not sure which one is the Uruks and which one is the Orcs. Well, the Dems definitely couldn't be the Uruks, they're too wimpy.
The whole "democrats are wimpy" meme is kind of weak because I'm not sure "aren't pudgy suburban guys who drive humvees, dress in camo, and run around in the woods embarrassingly brandishing guns they don't know how to use well" = "wimpy".
I'm talking about the actual Congressmen. The GOP don't think twice when it comes to legislating based upon their ideology. They don't care if the people like it or not. It's full steam ahead. It's the Democrats who get all in a bunch and worry about consensus and compromise and reaching across the aisle. Those things are good virtues, but I think sometimes they get a little OCD about it and then we get bullshit like the weak-ass HCR law. And that started in a compromise position.
The Patriot Act didn't start that way. They rammed that sucker through.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 05:52:12 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 13, 2011, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 05:44:52 PM
No.
Look, I'm obviously not a big Rush Limbaugh fan. But the best thing to do is just let it be and not draw attention to it. It's just another distraction AND it gives that fat attention whore more attention. He'd wallow in that shit for days.
He's an irrelevant shit-head, who cares.
Irrelevant? Try telling that to about half the people 'round these parts.
Okay, well he should be irrelevant.
Oh, yes, we are in complete agreement there. But give a monkey a microphone....
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 06:02:20 PM
I'm talking about the actual Congressmen. The GOP don't think twice when it comes to legislating based upon their ideology. They don't care if the people like it or not. It's full steam ahead. It's the Democrats who get all in a bunch and worry about consensus and compromise and reaching across the aisle. Those things are good virtues, but I think sometimes they get a little OCD about it and then we get bullshit like the weak-ass HCR law. And that started in a compromise position.
The Patriot Act didn't start that way. They rammed that sucker through.
In what way are Republican Congressmen not pudgy suburban guys who drive humvees, dress in camo, and run around in the woods embarrassingly brandishing guns they don't know how to use well?
*coughDICKCHENYcough*
We're talking apples and oranges here. I'm talking strictly about political wimpy-ness. I'm not talking about character. I mean, they're mostly all phony clowns on either side, that's part of being a politician in America. My commentary is strictly about how they legislate.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 06:02:20 PM
I'm talking about the actual Congressmen. The GOP don't think twice when it comes to legislating based upon their ideology. They don't care if the people like it or not. It's full steam ahead. It's the Democrats who get all in a bunch and worry about consensus and compromise and reaching across the aisle. Those things are good virtues, but I think sometimes they get a little OCD about it and then we get bullshit like the weak-ass HCR law. And that started in a compromise position.
The Patriot Act didn't start that way. They rammed that sucker through.
and it was written by a democrat. there is no choice, only the illusion of choice.
[edit] the reauthorization bill of 2006 was
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 06:12:18 PM
We're talking apples and oranges here. I'm talking strictly about political wimpy-ness. I'm not talking about character. I mean, they're mostly all phony clowns on either side, that's part of being a politician in America. My commentary is strictly about how they legislate.
Oh. You were comparing them to armies of Uruks and Orcs. I guess the metaphor fell apart.
Wasn't really a metaphor, was mostly pointing out that in this scenario they really aren't on the good guys team.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 06:02:20 PM
I'm talking about the actual Congressmen. The GOP don't think twice when it comes to legislating based upon their ideology. They don't care if the people like it or not. It's full steam ahead. It's the Democrats who get all in a bunch and worry about consensus and compromise and reaching across the aisle. Those things are good virtues, but I think sometimes they get a little OCD about it and then we get bullshit like the weak-ass HCR law. And that started in a compromise position.
The Patriot Act didn't start that way. They rammed that sucker through.
Actually, no.
The Democrats are also voting based on ideology. That ideology involves fucking every American under a certain wage level for all their productive worth. The hand-wringing etc is the propaganda, for their supporters.
Alan Grayson's former senior policy advisor (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/01/matt-stoller-understanding-the-strategy-of-the-democratic-power-class.html) explains this quite well:
QuoteSince the 1970s, Democratic elites have focused on breaking public sector unions and financializing the economy. Carter, not Reagan, started the defense build-up. Carter, not Reagan, lifted usury caps. Carter, not Reagan, first cut capital gains taxes. Clinton, not Bush, passed NAFTA. It isn't the base of the Democratic party that did this, but then, voters in America have never had a lot of power because they are too disorganized. And there wasn't a substantial grassroots movement to challenge this, either.
Obama continues this trend. It isn't that he's not fighting, he fights like hell for what he wants. He whipped incredibly aggressively for TARP, he has passed emergency war funding (breaking a campaign promise) several times, and nearly broke the arms of feckless liberals in the process. I mean, when Bernie Sanders did the filiBernie, Obama flirted with Bernie's potential 2012 GOP challenger. Obama just wants policies that cement the status of a aristocratic class, with crumbs for everyone else (Republican elites disagree in that they hate anyone but elites getting crumbs). And he will fight for them.
There is simply no basis for arguing that Democratic elites are pursuing poor strategy anymore. They are achieving an enormous amount of leverage within the party. Consider the following. Despite Obama violating every core tenet of what might have been considered the Democratic Party platform, from supporting foreclosures to destroying civil liberties to torturing political dissidents to wrecking unions, Obama has no viable primary challenger. Moreover, no Senate Democratic incumbent lost a primary challenge in 2010, despite a horrible governing posture. Now THAT is a successful strategy, it minimized the losses of the Democratic elite and kept them firmly in control of the party. Thus, the political debate remains confined to what neoliberals want to talk about. It's a good strategy, it's just you are the one the strategy is being played on.
A lot of people think that Obama is a bad poker player, but they miss the point. He's not playing with his money, he's playing with YOUR money. You are the weak hand at the table, he's colluding with the other players.
If you don't know who is the sucker in any given poker game, it's you.
Also, I'm going to think about this for a while
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/10/934890/-Stochastic-Terrorism:-Triggering-the-shooters.
QuoteStochastic terrorism is the use of mass communications to stir up random lone wolves to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.
This is what occurs when Bin Laden releases a video that stirs random extremists halfway around the globe to commit a bombing or shooting.
This is also the term for what Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, and others do. And this is what led directly and predictably to a number of cases of ideologically-motivated murder similar to the Tucson shootings.
* G2geek's diary :: ::
*
Update: the mechanism spelled out.
(This update is to resolve some ambiguity.)
The person who actually plants the bomb or assassinates the public official is not the stochastic terrorist, they are the "missile" set in motion by the stochastic terrorist. The stochastic terrorist is the person who uses mass media as their means of setting those "missiles" in motion.
Here's the mechanism spelled out concisely:
The stochastic terrorist is the person who uses mass media to broadcast memes that incite unstable people to commit violent acts.
One or more unstable people responds to the incitement by becoming a lone wolf and committing a violent act. While their action may have been statistically predictable (e.g. "given the provocation, someone will probably do such-and-such"), the specific person and the specific act are not predictable (yet).
The stochastic terrorist then has plausible deniability: "Oh, it was just a lone nut, nobody could have predicted he would do that, and I'm not responsible for what people in my audience do."
The lone wolf who was the "missile" gets captured and sentenced to life in prison, while the stochastic terrorist keeps his prime time slot and goes on to incite more lone wolves.
Further, the stochastic terrorist may be acting either negligently or deliberately, or may be in complete denial of their impact, just like a drunk driver who runs over a pedestrian without even realizing it.
Finally, there is no conspiracy here: merely the twisted acts of individuals who are promoting extremism, who get access to national media in which to do it, and the rest follows naturally just as an increase in violent storms follows from an increase in average global temperature.
There is actually some research on the replication of terrorist attacks and memetics which would
seem to support this. It's complex though.
Argh. Cain did it again.
As a follow up, my loose grasp on Baseyan reasoning would seem to support the idea of Stochastic terrorism.
It's exactly Al-Qaeda Core's strategy, that.
It's also the reason Anwar al-Walaki is currently being targeted for assassination by the CIA.
I also believe that in the case of several genocides in developing states, this form of terrorism may have helped inspire attacks (Rwanda, the Haiti uprisings etc).
At the same time though, I think it needs to be fleshed out.
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 07:57:43 PM
Also, I'm going to think about this for a while
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/10/934890/-Stochastic-Terrorism:-Triggering-the-shooters.
QuoteStochastic terrorism is the use of mass communications to stir up random lone wolves to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.
This is what occurs when Bin Laden releases a video that stirs random extremists halfway around the globe to commit a bombing or shooting.
This is also the term for what Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, and others do. And this is what led directly and predictably to a number of cases of ideologically-motivated murder similar to the Tucson shootings.
* G2geek's diary :: ::
*
Update: the mechanism spelled out.
(This update is to resolve some ambiguity.)
The person who actually plants the bomb or assassinates the public official is not the stochastic terrorist, they are the "missile" set in motion by the stochastic terrorist. The stochastic terrorist is the person who uses mass media as their means of setting those "missiles" in motion.
Here's the mechanism spelled out concisely:
The stochastic terrorist is the person who uses mass media to broadcast memes that incite unstable people to commit violent acts.
One or more unstable people responds to the incitement by becoming a lone wolf and committing a violent act. While their action may have been statistically predictable (e.g. "given the provocation, someone will probably do such-and-such"), the specific person and the specific act are not predictable (yet).
The stochastic terrorist then has plausible deniability: "Oh, it was just a lone nut, nobody could have predicted he would do that, and I'm not responsible for what people in my audience do."
The lone wolf who was the "missile" gets captured and sentenced to life in prison, while the stochastic terrorist keeps his prime time slot and goes on to incite more lone wolves.
Further, the stochastic terrorist may be acting either negligently or deliberately, or may be in complete denial of their impact, just like a drunk driver who runs over a pedestrian without even realizing it.
Finally, there is no conspiracy here: merely the twisted acts of individuals who are promoting extremism, who get access to national media in which to do it, and the rest follows naturally just as an increase in violent storms follows from an increase in average global temperature.
There is actually some research on the replication of terrorist attacks and memetics which would seem to support this. It's complex though.
Ofuk. :horrormirth:
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
It's exactly Al-Qaeda Core's strategy, that.
It's also the reason Anwar al-Walaki is currently being targeted for assassination by the CIA.
I also believe that in the case of several genocides in developing states, this form of terrorism may have helped inspire attacks (Rwanda, the Haiti uprisings etc).
At the same time though, I think it needs to be fleshed out.
Suicide bombers at first blush also fit the missile definition.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 08:07:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
It's exactly Al-Qaeda Core's strategy, that.
It's also the reason Anwar al-Walaki is currently being targeted for assassination by the CIA.
I also believe that in the case of several genocides in developing states, this form of terrorism may have helped inspire attacks (Rwanda, the Haiti uprisings etc).
At the same time though, I think it needs to be fleshed out.
Suicide bombers at first blush also fit the missile definition.
They're not really Suicide Bombers. They're Homicide Bombers. A Suicide Bomber would go out into the Desert somewhere, and just blow himself up. He wouldn't need a cause any more than any other Suicide.
But if he did it in protest, all he has to do, is say so in his Note. Then he's a Suicide Bomber with a cause. (But still not needing to blow anyone else but himself up)
Strapping a bomb to yourself, then going to town and blowing as many other people up as you can, is something other than Suicide. Spree killers? Self inclusive spree killers? Explosive Martyrists? But not "suicide". Suicide should be a solitary and self contemplative event. Like masturbation. It shouldn't have anyone else involved in it. Not even as witnesses. If witnesses are tricked into being present, (In either scenario) then you're doing it for attention. Making you at the very least, an exhibitionist. And exhibitionists don't want to die, not while there is anyone left alive that can be their audience.
Quote from: BadBeast on January 13, 2011, 08:26:43 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 08:07:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
It's exactly Al-Qaeda Core's strategy, that.
It's also the reason Anwar al-Walaki is currently being targeted for assassination by the CIA.
I also believe that in the case of several genocides in developing states, this form of terrorism may have helped inspire attacks (Rwanda, the Haiti uprisings etc).
At the same time though, I think it needs to be fleshed out.
Suicide bombers at first blush also fit the missile definition.
They're not really Suicide Bombers. They're Homicide Bombers. A Suicide Bomber would go out into the Desert somewhere, and just blow himself up. He wouldn't need a cause any more than any other Suicide.
But if he did it in protest, all he has to do, is say so in his Note. Then he's a Suicide Bomber with a cause. (But still not needing to blow anyone else but himself up)
Strapping a bomb to yourself, then going to town and blowing as many other people up as you can, is something other than Suicide. Spree killers? Self inclusive spree killers? Explosive Martyrists? But not "suicide". Suicide should be a solitary and self contemplative event. Like masturbation. It shouldn't have anyone else involved in it. Not even as witnesses. If witnesses are tricked into being present, (In either scenario) then you're doing it for attention. Making you at the very least, an exhibitionist. And exhibitionists don't want to die, not while there is anyone left alive that can be their audience.
going to my room now.
GREAT term, Cain! very useful object for discussion.
This all starts to sound like a game of Magic: The Gathering, no?
"I tap AM Radio and gain 2 mana. I spend 2 mana to summon a Frothing Militia. It gets +1/+0 due to the invocation of the second amendment. Your turn."
Quote from: BadBeast on January 13, 2011, 08:26:43 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 13, 2011, 08:07:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
It's exactly Al-Qaeda Core's strategy, that.
It's also the reason Anwar al-Walaki is currently being targeted for assassination by the CIA.
I also believe that in the case of several genocides in developing states, this form of terrorism may have helped inspire attacks (Rwanda, the Haiti uprisings etc).
At the same time though, I think it needs to be fleshed out.
Suicide bombers at first blush also fit the missile definition.
They're not really Suicide Bombers. They're Homicide Bombers. A Suicide Bomber would go out into the Desert somewhere, and just blow himself up. He wouldn't need a cause any more than any other Suicide.
But if he did it in protest, all he has to do, is say so in his Note. Then he's a Suicide Bomber with a cause. (But still not needing to blow anyone else but himself up)
Strapping a bomb to yourself, then going to town and blowing as many other people up as you can, is something other than Suicide. Spree killers? Self inclusive spree killers? Explosive Martyrists? But not "suicide". Suicide should be a solitary and self contemplative event. Like masturbation. It shouldn't have anyone else involved in it. Not even as witnesses. If witnesses are tricked into being present, (In either scenario) then you're doing it for attention. Making you at the very least, an exhibitionist. And exhibitionists don't want to die, not while there is anyone left alive that can be their audience.
fuck... mittens.... :fuckmittens:
Quote from: Cramulus on January 13, 2011, 08:38:24 PM
GREAT term, Cain! very useful object for discussion.
This all starts to sound like a game of Magic: The Gathering, no?
"I tap AM Radio and gain 2 mana. I spend 2 mana to summon a Frothing Militia. It gets +1/+0 due to the invocation of the second amendment. Your turn."
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :argh!:
Quote from: Cramulus on January 13, 2011, 08:38:24 PM
GREAT term, Cain! very useful object for discussion.
This all starts to sound like a game of Magic: The Gathering, no?
"I tap AM Radio and gain 2 mana. I spend 2 mana to summon a Frothing Militia. It gets +1/+0 due to the invocation of the second amendment. Your turn."
hmm, that could definitely be an interesting card game. Somewhere between magic and illuminati
Clash of the extremists maybe?
Quote from: Cramulus on January 13, 2011, 08:38:24 PM
GREAT term, Cain! very useful object for discussion.
This all starts to sound like a game of Magic: The Gathering, no?
"I tap AM Radio and gain 2 mana. I spend 2 mana to summon a Frothing Militia. It gets +1/+0 due to the invocation of the second amendment. Your turn."
:lulz:
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 07:57:43 PM
Also, I'm going to think about this for a while
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/10/934890/-Stochastic-Terrorism:-Triggering-the-shooters.
Very interesting concept. Start a low level buzz in multiple spots. Create a powerful feedback loop. Keep it up until bad shit happens. It's completely unpredictable though and is very likely to backfire eventually. This shooting isn't going to end up being a positive for the people who were hinting at violence. Americans are very good at knee-jerk reactions so this will either start swinging the other direction or get much much worse.
Also, the mugshot of Loughner they keep showing on tv is creeping me out. I can think of at least 3 different people I grew up with that look like him (hell 1 or 2 people from here to be honest). I've seen that crazy look before and it really bothers me.
As long as it's not a mirror you've seen that look in, I'd just put it down to media saturation, and viral newscasting. Some things don't get any better under scrutiny.
Quote from: Cain on January 13, 2011, 07:42:03 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 13, 2011, 06:02:20 PM
I'm talking about the actual Congressmen. The GOP don't think twice when it comes to legislating based upon their ideology. They don't care if the people like it or not. It's full steam ahead. It's the Democrats who get all in a bunch and worry about consensus and compromise and reaching across the aisle. Those things are good virtues, but I think sometimes they get a little OCD about it and then we get bullshit like the weak-ass HCR law. And that started in a compromise position.
The Patriot Act didn't start that way. They rammed that sucker through.
Actually, no.
The Democrats are also voting based on ideology. That ideology involves fucking every American under a certain wage level for all their productive worth. The hand-wringing etc is the propaganda, for their supporters.
Alan Grayson's former senior policy advisor (http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/01/matt-stoller-understanding-the-strategy-of-the-democratic-power-class.html) explains this quite well:
QuoteSince the 1970s, Democratic elites have focused on breaking public sector unions and financializing the economy. Carter, not Reagan, started the defense build-up. Carter, not Reagan, lifted usury caps. Carter, not Reagan, first cut capital gains taxes. Clinton, not Bush, passed NAFTA. It isn't the base of the Democratic party that did this, but then, voters in America have never had a lot of power because they are too disorganized. And there wasn't a substantial grassroots movement to challenge this, either.
Obama continues this trend. It isn't that he's not fighting, he fights like hell for what he wants. He whipped incredibly aggressively for TARP, he has passed emergency war funding (breaking a campaign promise) several times, and nearly broke the arms of feckless liberals in the process. I mean, when Bernie Sanders did the filiBernie, Obama flirted with Bernie's potential 2012 GOP challenger. Obama just wants policies that cement the status of a aristocratic class, with crumbs for everyone else (Republican elites disagree in that they hate anyone but elites getting crumbs). And he will fight for them.
There is simply no basis for arguing that Democratic elites are pursuing poor strategy anymore. They are achieving an enormous amount of leverage within the party. Consider the following. Despite Obama violating every core tenet of what might have been considered the Democratic Party platform, from supporting foreclosures to destroying civil liberties to torturing political dissidents to wrecking unions, Obama has no viable primary challenger. Moreover, no Senate Democratic incumbent lost a primary challenge in 2010, despite a horrible governing posture. Now THAT is a successful strategy, it minimized the losses of the Democratic elite and kept them firmly in control of the party. Thus, the political debate remains confined to what neoliberals want to talk about. It's a good strategy, it's just you are the one the strategy is being played on.
A lot of people think that Obama is a bad poker player, but they miss the point. He's not playing with his money, he's playing with YOUR money. You are the weak hand at the table, he's colluding with the other players.
If you don't know who is the sucker in any given poker game, it's you.
I think the Democrats
want and certainly intend to legislate based upon their ideology, and they certainly set out to do that. But recent history is that they usually fail and when they succeed, what they get is very watered down. Then there are some fights they don't seem up for at all. A good one being renewable energy and green energy. This is an item where they talk a pretty good game when it comes to campaigns, but they can't really seem to get up a head of steam to actually get something in and through the Congress. The GOP are much more full steam ahead with their agenda, again, in recent times. That is what I'm mainly focusing on with my commentary.
Health care is the best example. It completely failed under Clinton and under Obama it is completely watered down and verging on useless. They could have started with single payer and compromised down to a public option, instead, they started in the compromise position. They do this pretty often.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/29/attack-ads-circa-1800
These guys knew how to party.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 14, 2011, 06:00:22 PM
http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/29/attack-ads-circa-1800
These guys knew how to party.
:lulz:
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 14, 2011, 06:00:22 PM
http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/29/attack-ads-circa-1800
These guys knew how to party.
YEAH, AND I FUCKING VOTED FOR JEFFERSON BASED ON THAT ADD, AND NONE OF THAT SHIT HAPPENED! ADAMS WAS A LYING CUNTFACE! :crankey:
I blame you for believing.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 14, 2011, 07:02:09 PM
I blame you for believing.
:oops:
ETA: Is it my fault I believe the worst about people? :lulz:
RWHN, the "compromise" is part of the propaganda, the political theatre they put on. They were doing it even when they had a supermajority...
Let's put it this way. Why would you negotiate with anyone to pass legislation which is not going to please your base? Because you already know you can get what you want out of the negotiation and so you can spread the blame. The Republicans are knee-jerk oppositionists, and such they are perfect foils to deflect the blame on, as Democratic pols can point to the intractable nature of the opposition as the reason they "had" to "water down" bills they never intended to pass in anything but a "watered down" form in the first place.
It's all a sham. The Democrats have been passing the legitlation they have wanted to pass for the past two years. Every major piece of legislation, it turns out the White House and key Democrats had already decided on the major provisions of such bills before the debates in the media had even started. It is all pre-ordained, kabuki politics. They're successfully pursuing the policies they want, getting their donors rich and shifting the blame for corporatist policies on the Republicans.
That's so goddamn cynical that it makes perfect sense.
I've been sold on this since March of 2010.
I can also prove it. Health care debate. Look on the NYT site, you'll find Obama and key Democrats decided the outcome of the debate before they had it, settling on the current system instead of the single-payer option, while publically claiming they were keeping the single-payer option possibility open for months after, only to junk it later on because of "Republican objections".
All in the news. You just gotta read.
It makes me to want the train to derail. Soon.
Quote from: Cain on January 14, 2011, 07:30:21 PM
I can also prove it. Health care debate. Look on the NYT site, you'll find Obama and key Democrats decided the outcome of the debate before they had it, settling on the current system instead of the single-payer option, while publically claiming they were keeping the single-payer option possibility open for months after, only to junk it later on because of "Republican objections".
All in the news. You just gotta read.
Actually, all I had to do was watch Obama bend over for the GOP when he had a supermajority. That's when I knew the fix was in.
Well, that too. I meant more proof of how the White House operates, when it comes to legislation, than general Republican ass-kissing.
Quote from: Cain on January 14, 2011, 07:33:28 PM
Well, that too. I meant more proof of how the White House operates, when it comes to legislation, than general Republican ass-kissing.
That's what I mean. The ass-kissing was a smokescreen. I saw that right away, and any doubts I had went away when Obama threw Nuremburg IV out the window.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Canada-Saves-Tucson-Funeral-From-Protestors-2966 (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Canada-Saves-Tucson-Funeral-From-Protestors-2966)
Truly a shame they didn't use Canada's hate speech legislation to arrest them afterwards.
I thought we threw out Nuremberg IV during Vietnam?
Quote from: Remington on January 14, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Canada-Saves-Tucson-Funeral-From-Protestors-2966 (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Canada-Saves-Tucson-Funeral-From-Protestors-2966)
Truly a shame they didn't use Canada's hate speech legislation to arrest them afterwards.
:mittens: Thank you, Canada!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 14, 2011, 07:30:21 PM
I can also prove it. Health care debate. Look on the NYT site, you'll find Obama and key Democrats decided the outcome of the debate before they had it, settling on the current system instead of the single-payer option, while publically claiming they were keeping the single-payer option possibility open for months after, only to junk it later on because of "Republican objections".
All in the news. You just gotta read.
Actually, all I had to do was watch Obama bend over for the GOP when he had a supermajority. That's when I knew the fix was in.
Okay, I agree in terms of Obama. It was pretty clear Obama never had any intention of even contemplating Single Payer. But the Democratic Party proper, particularily the Progressive wing of the party, clearly did want something that, if not Single Payer, was closer to it than what they ended up with. But, in the end, they really didn't put up much fight against the GOP or the President. There was the token exercise when I think it was Bernie Sanders who introduced a bill that would've been a Single Payer like system, but that was a throw away maneuver and it wasn't a serious attempt. They simply don't have the same fight in them that the GOP have which was the point I was trying to make earlier.
James Eric Fuller, who was shot in the knee and back in last week's Tucson rampage, allegedly shouts, 'You're dead!' at a 'tea party' activist during a town hall meeting for victims and witnesses.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-shooting-threat-20110116,0,1503895.story
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/13/salvia-and-the-arizona-shooting.html#
"...Miley Cyrus"
:spit:
:lulz:
I have friends that have done salvia, although never myself ~ I'm pretty sure none of them suddenly got the urge to shoot MP's. (although maybe some of them wanted to shoot Lib Dems but there's probably different reasons for that)
Well, I've done salvia, and the uncontrollable urge to assassinate elected officials is a common side effect.I had to have someone restrain me to keep me from wiping out the entire state legislature in the ~10 minutes the trip lasted.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/24/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T2
A federal judge entered a plea of not guilty Monday on behalf of Jared Lee Loughner to three counts of attempted murder in the mass shooting that wounded U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords earlier this month.
After entering the packed courtroom, Loughner, 22, showed the same smirk as he had in his mug shot. He appeared to chuckle to himself as he looked into an upper balcony area filled with spectators. He smiled occasionally during the 15-minute arraignment and remained silent.
U.S. District Court Judge Larry Burns asked federal public defender Judy Clarke about Loughner's ability to comprehend the proceedings.
"We are not raising that issue at this time," Clarke told the judge.
When the judge asked for plea from the defendant, Clarke asked the judge to enter one on Loughner's behalf.
Is the defense lawyer setting up for insanity without entering that plea? Smells like it.
Loughner = Laughter
On = At
:fnord:
Thanks to Arizona State Senator Linda Gray we now know the really reason the shooting happened:
QuoteTraining of people to respect human life. It is ironic that today today is the day 38 years ago that the Supreme Court said we do not have to respect the life of an unborn and we have gone through now more then a generation of people, a large number of people who believe that it is fine to take an infant prior to it being born and to kill it. What type of respect is that for human life? So now we have this generation of people who have that idea and it continues on, that why respect life if we can kill an infant who can't defend themselves. It goes back to the value in the creation of life and the respect for that life and if your not trained and have that type of character in realizing that all human life deserves respect this is what our country has come to.
:facepalm:
(http://i.imgur.com/M8Mw2.gif)
Leave it to the Republicans to latch on to a tragedy to bitch about shit like that.
Quote from: Hover Cat on January 28, 2011, 02:25:05 AM
Leave it to the Republicans to latch on to a tragedy to bitch about shit like that.
"Never Let a Good Crisis Go To Waste"
:troll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ouBFh04DU&feature=feedu
:lulz:
Firefighter refused to go to the scene of the shooting because of politicial differences, delays emergency response.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20110218/giffords.firefighter/
QuoteCapt. Ben Williams wrote in a report that when Ekstrum first said he would not go on the call, "he mentioned something about `political bantering' and he did not want to be part of it."
Williams said in the report that he told the 56-year-old firefighter that he could not refuse a call for that reason and then talked to the firefighter privately in his office. He said Ekstrum "started to say something about how he had a much different political viewpoint than the rest of the crew and he was concerned."
Holy shit.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on February 18, 2011, 06:55:35 PM
Firefighter refused to go to the scene of the shooting because of politicial differences, delays emergency response.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20110218/giffords.firefighter/
QuoteCapt. Ben Williams wrote in a report that when Ekstrum first said he would not go on the call, "he mentioned something about `political bantering' and he did not want to be part of it."
Williams said in the report that he told the 56-year-old firefighter that he could not refuse a call for that reason and then talked to the firefighter privately in his office. He said Ekstrum "started to say something about how he had a much different political viewpoint than the rest of the crew and he was concerned."
What the FUCK??
How does that guy still have a job?
Meh, I should read better, looks like he retired two days later.
:lulz:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 18, 2011, 07:02:40 PM
How does that guy still have a job?
Meh, I should read better, looks like he retired two days later.
He's lucky he's not in prison, refusing to provide emergency services is bad shit if they can lay a death or long term injury on you for it.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on February 18, 2011, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 18, 2011, 07:02:40 PM
How does that guy still have a job?
Meh, I should read better, looks like he retired two days later.
He's lucky he's not in prison, refusing to provide emergency services is bad shit if they can lay a death or long term injury on you for it.
In this case, looks like they likely can't. They were responding after the major cases were taken to the hospital to deal with the less injured. He quit before they could fire his ass.
...I like how it took a month for this story to come out. Because it's pretty much a big fucking deal.
Quote from: Jenne on February 18, 2011, 08:55:55 PM
...I like how it took a month for this story to come out. Because it's pretty much a big fucking deal.
Probably took a month for the FoI request to get processed. Hell, I think they're STILL waiting for some information requests from when Palin was governor to be released.
Probably less of a deal considering that the guy was off the job before the stuff could go to press. No reason to rush to spin up the outrage to get him fired, he'd already retired.
No, but it certainly points to what emergency personnel consider their "right" in terms of their job vs. private behaviors. To me it's akin to the pharmacists who cite their beliefs in right-to-life who won't give unwed women the birth control or morning after pill. You know, because those sinful girls should just be allowed to get pregnant with unwanted children that they need to carry to term.
...but the dudes getting condoms? Yeah, that's a constitutional right, yo.
All the same show.