http://www.registan.net/index.php/2011/01/13/the-unforgivable-horror-of-village-razing/
Joshua Foust takes apart an account by a PhD student from King's College, London, where she enthusiastically describes how an Afghan village being menaced by the Taliban is utterly obliterated by massive aerial bombardment. There were no civilian casualties, fortunately, but in order to "not lose momentum", they decided just to flatten the entire settlement once the Taliban had been driven off.
Oh, and it gets better. Turns out the soldiers responsible allowed the local governor to vet candidates to "rebuild" the homes, ie; buy up all the land in the area and not even have to worry about evicting the former owners, since the USAF and SF had already so kindly done the work. The grad student blows off the bitching by the villagers by pointing out that the ISAF has done tremendous amounts of work to stabilize Afghanistan and they should, in fact, be grateful for what happened. Not even kidding about that part.
Gosh, I wonder why more and more Afghans are seeming to be joining the ranks of the Taliban?
What happened to winning their hearts and minds?
It's amazing that we still have to destroy the villiage in order to save it.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 14, 2011, 06:24:04 PM
What happened to winning their hearts and minds?
Land is more profitable.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 14, 2011, 06:24:48 PM
It's amazing that we still have to destroy the villiage in order to save it.
"We are not 'napalming villages'. We are delivering ordnance to a predetermined target location."
- Unnamed Air Force Colonel, 1969. No shit.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 14, 2011, 06:24:48 PM
It's amazing that we still have to destroy the villiage in order to save it.
It's for their own good. Trust me.
...I think winning the hearts and minds became "too complicated." Learning to navigate such a complex thing as a culture that's very much different from your own, let alone a government steeped in tyranny, depravity and corruption makes for a difficult study to execute. The US got lazy and decided that firepower, 10 years later, is easier to use than compassion and negotiation.
On the flipside, having tried hard to win the hearts and minds of my own in-laws, part of me doesn't blame them for thinking it very much a lost cause, even if the US, in actuality, contributed heavily to the losing side of that cause. Since the outset. Goodwill was hard to come by after spending so many years at war with people that really don't like you, want you there or understand what you say and what you mean when you say it.
An Associate Professor of National Security Strategy at the National War College adds:
QuoteThe issue is the complete dishumanization of the Afghan people. Broadwell demonstrats no sense of realization of the horror implicit in this story. She seems to have no conception that these people's homes — even if we rebuilt them better than before — were not just shelter, but homes. Buried in that rubble is the wooden box where an Afghan mother kept a lock of her children's hair. Buried in that rubble is a man's only picture of his dead father. Buried in that rubble is a child's favorite toy.
The idea, implicit in Broadwell (and in much of the COIN literature) is that Afghans are nothing more than material goods maximizing automatons. If we destroy their homes and then rebuild one with, say, with more room and running water, then not only should be grateful (the imperialist mindset), but will be grateful (the COIN mindset). If we occupy their country and destroy their local institutions, but somehow marginally raise their standard of living, they will thank us for it. It is both a morally bankrupt approach and delusional.
The story itself is sad enough. The attitudes demostrated by Broadwell are wholly appalling. There is a "banality of evil" feel to this that is very, very unsettling.
:facepalm:
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:24 PM
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Glad to be here, Roger. It's slightly better than being on the outside.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 14, 2011, 07:11:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:24 PM
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Glad to be here, Roger. It's slightly better than being on the outside.
Tetanus is slightly better than botulism. At least at first.
Quote from: Cain on January 14, 2011, 07:06:10 PM
An Associate Professor of National Security Strategy at the National War College adds:
QuoteThe issue is the complete dishumanization of the Afghan people. Broadwell demonstrats no sense of realization of the horror implicit in this story. She seems to have no conception that these people's homes — even if we rebuilt them better than before — were not just shelter, but homes. Buried in that rubble is the wooden box where an Afghan mother kept a lock of her children's hair. Buried in that rubble is a man's only picture of his dead father. Buried in that rubble is a child's favorite toy.
The idea, implicit in Broadwell (and in much of the COIN literature) is that Afghans are nothing more than material goods maximizing automatons. If we destroy their homes and then rebuild one with, say, with more room and running water, then not only should be grateful (the imperialist mindset), but will be grateful (the COIN mindset). If we occupy their country and destroy their local institutions, but somehow marginally raise their standard of living, they will thank us for it. It is both a morally bankrupt approach and delusional.
The story itself is sad enough. The attitudes demostrated by Broadwell are wholly appalling. There is a "banality of evil" feel to this that is very, very unsettling.
It's like that time God gave Satan permission to kill all of Job's kids, but then totally made up for it by giving him a new set of even better kids, including uber hot daughters.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:24 PM
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Since our Empire began this has been going on. Look up Wounded Knee.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 14, 2011, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:12:57 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 14, 2011, 07:11:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:24 PM
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Glad to be here, Roger. It's slightly better than being on the outside.
Tetanus is slightly better than botulism. At least at first.
Good point.
Sure. Botulism, you just lose the ability to smile, then you lie down and die.
Tetanus, you get achey and sore, and then
you can't stop SMILING, and then you convulse until all your bones break and your muscles pull loose, and THEN you die.
Quote from: Charley Brown on January 14, 2011, 07:22:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 14, 2011, 07:09:24 PM
Welcome to the Empire™, Phoxie.
Since our Empire began this has been going on. Look up Wounded Knee.
Textbook Botulism epidemic, that was.
That's goddamn chilling, Roger. And completely dead on. :horrormirth:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on January 14, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
That's goddamn chilling, Roger. And completely dead on. :horrormirth:
The good news is, near the end, if you squint a bit, it looks like everyone's dancing.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/01/18/military-jtf2-probe.html
QuoteA member of Canada's elite special forces unit says he felt his peers were being "encouraged" by the Canadian Forces chain of command to commit war crimes in Afghanistan, according to new documents obtained by CBC News.
The documents from the military ombudsman's office show the member of the covert unit Joint Task Force 2, or JTF2, approached the watchdog in June 2008 to report the allegations of wrongdoing he had first made to his superior officers in 2006.
The soldier told the ombudsman's office "that although he reported what he witnessed to his chain of command, he does not believe they are investigating, and are being 'very nice to him,' " according to the documents, which CBC News obtained through access to information.
As such, the soldier alleged, the chain of command helped create an atmosphere that tolerated war crimes.
The ombudsman's documents state the soldier was subsequently directed to the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service, CFNIS, which in turn launched its own investigation.
The CFNIS told the ombudsman the investigation was "now their No. 1 priority."
The member alleged that a fellow JTF2 member was involved in the 2006 shooting death of an Afghan who had his hands up in the act of surrender. That CFNIS probe ended without any charges.
The soldier who raised those allegations also claimed that in January 2008, his team was sent to conduct a mission alongside an American special operations team. He said he witnessed the U.S. forces kill a man who was wounded and unarmed.
The documents make clear that the soldier didn't believe the military was taking his allegations seriously and that he had lost faith in the forces' leadership.
He told the ombudsman's office in one of many telephone conversations he felt "more and more of his peers are being encouraged to commit war crimes by the chain of command ... which they may be held accountable for one day as superiors walk away."
The soldier said he wasn't coming forward to have "the guys who pull the trigger" investigated, who he said were "being incited to do those things" by their superiors.
"This is done by promoting those who do, and not promoting those who don't," the ombudsman's office staffer handling the file wrote in the document.
'Southern friends'
The soldier also claimed the "vision of the southern friends is being pushed" — an apparent reference to the more aggressive reputation of the American soldiers.
The soldier told the ombudsman in September 2008 of his concern that "similar acts may be ongoing while his allegations are being investigated," the documents said.
The military ombudsman's office told the soldier it did not have the mandate to probe allegations of criminal activity and that his file would be closed. But the staff said he could contact the ombudsman's office at any time.
But in an October 2008 letter sent to Canada's chief of defence staff, Gen. Walter Natynczyk, the ombudsman urged the military to investigate swiftly.
Natynczyk was alerted of the soldier's claims and told the ombudsman he was confident the investigation was being conducted "in a most thorough and professional manner."
It has now been two years since Natynczyk made the statement, and 4½ years since the soldier initially complained to the chain of command within JTF2.
Among a separate set of documents CBC News has obtained on the file is a reference in a military email chain that the soldier has repeatedly "indicated he may go public with some of his concerns, including the fact that his benefits have ceased."
Those documents do not specify which benefits were stopped or why.
Wheeee.
Damn. That makes me sick.
And while I'm here
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/01/201111114112880358.html
QuoteThe Arbakai, semi-official local militias, have committed tremendous abuses in Afghanistan's northeastern provinces of Kunduz and Baghlan. President Hamid Karzai finally ordered their disarmament last month...
In Baghlan province, too, the Arbakai have harassed locals for funds and worse. In Central Baghlan district, for example, 600 Arbakais are active. According to the source close to the National Security Council, Arbakai have raided homes at night, forced taxes on people, and killed as many as 15 individuals in clashes within two weeks.
"They have committed tens of murders in Baghlan, yet no one is able to bring them to justice," says Abdul Shaker Erfani, member of the Baghlan Development Council. The Arbakai, he says, has turned into a liability for the government, derailing any sense of legitimacy.
"In areas under Taliban control, murders are investigated swiftly," says Mr. Erfani. "In the government areas, unfortunately, no one asks about such murders."
It is really worth reading the whole article, though.
Quote from: Cain on January 20, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/01/18/military-jtf2-probe.html
...explains a lot about how Wade saw his posts and his upcoming trip to Afghanistan. I've met a lot of well, gung-ho if not just ready-to-war soldiers online that are about to deploy. And he was the most...blood-thirsty?...about it. I'm sure he learned pretty quick, though, the cost of such attitudes. Here in San Diego, the folks who've been delpoyed for the SIXTH fucking time in 8 years are not so hot to kill them a haji.
As for the Talibs "investigating" a murder...I'm not going to pretend that their investigations have anything to do with what we would consider any sort of justice. I have to see more evidence that they have more in view than their own powermongering gain.
The problem is not raising up the armies of Afghanistan to police themselves, goddammit. It's the problem of motherfucking
EDUCATION. These guys enter into a position of power over someone and never see a FUCKING longview for the life of them. They have no vision of a future other than right here and now and this week but not necessarily next. With this short-sighted view, you aren't going to raise a set of people up to command and lead but instead another greedy mob that will disfigure and destroy.
EDUFUCKINGCATION. Reading, writing, math--get that shit in their heads. Teach them their own fucking history. The history of their land--remind them of where they come from and who they come from. The art and livelihood of their happy times is just forgotten. They live day to day in a wasteland of pity, sorrow and avarice. Even the most just of them rape and lie and steal. From the lowest of their people. Because they are all too desperate to know any better.
THIS is the turn of the page in history where you say, Well dammit, we've done it. We've gone and torn the fabric of humanity, rent it from stem to sternum, and there's naught left but the threads dragging on the ground. In the muck, mire and the motherfucking impossibility of anything good coming out of anywhere.
There's such a desperation of want and need and desire and very little compunction to share and dream and relent enough to GROW. There's no thrive to the jive...just pain and more pain. I know we've built schools, and there's MILLIONS learning more every day. But for every child with acid in her face as she goes to school, there's a rifle butt to someone's head taking her brother off to enforced prostitution.
I'm just...I don't know...tired of the excuses that the problem isn't solvable. It's just not solvable
in this way, dammit. Not this way.
Although, to be fair to the Canadian military, Wade wasn't special forces, unless their usage of the word "special" is somewhat different to that in most other militaries.
Quote from: Cain on January 22, 2011, 07:08:41 PM
Although, to be fair to the Canadian military, Wade wasn't special forces, unless their usage of the word "special" is somewhat different to that in most other militaries.
This made me giggle.
Quote from: Cain on January 20, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2011/01/18/military-jtf2-probe.html
Wheeee.
Oh, so Canada's not so different from the US after all. That is so much more comforting. So should I go to the UK then?
British troops in Helmand Province have been described by American anthropologists working with the US military as boorish, arrogant imperialists who think throwing money around the place and acting superior is a viable strategy.
The Germans, meanwhile, hide in their military bases and call out airstrikes with the smallest of provocations, or, when by some miracle they actually end up near a real fight, end up chopping up bodies for trophies, usually finger bones or skulls.
French Military rifles for sale.
Never fired and only dropped once.
Actually, the French are probably the most disciplined force in the country right now. While their tactics are rather vanilla, they tend to be careful about things like civilian casualties, and have a reputation (among American troops in particular) for sticking to their plans. I've also seen no indication of war crimes being committed by the French, even in the Afghan War Diaries (though I admit to not doing a thorough search in that regard).
Also, for those wondering, the Australians rarely venture outside of Kabul, for political reasons.