Principia Discordia

Please list them, if you will...

Optimism is a con.

Quote from: Sigmatic on March 13, 2011, 02:33:27 AM
Optimism is a con.

Why?

They both lead to a sterile, fruitless, grooved way of thinking that I avoid whenever possible.

Excuse my lack of subtly:

An optimist comes across a brick wall in the middle of the road, blocking his path. He smashes his head into it over and over again sure that he will get through eventually.

A pessimist comes to the same wall, turns around and goes home.

A realist finds a way around the wall or a way to remove it.

A DISCORDIAN is the motherfucker who put a wall in the middle of the god damned road.

Quote from: Alty on March 13, 2011, 02:48:34 AM
They both lead to a sterile, fruitless, grooved way of thinking that I avoid whenever possible.

Excuse my lack of subtly:

An optimist comes across a brick wall in the middle of the road, blocking his path. He smashes his head into it over and over again sure that he will get through eventually.

A pessimist comes to the same wall, turns around and goes home.

A realist finds a way around the wall or a way to remove it.

A DISCORDIAN is the motherfucker who put a wall in the middle of the god damned road.

This.
Or... an optimist sees the glass as half full, a pessimist sees the glass half empty.  A realist knows that there is no way to change the amount of water with out displacing some matter already there.  A discordian dumps out whatever is in said glass, fills it with alcoholic beverage of choice and proceeds to have a good time.  :monkeydance:

Discordians are all of the above.

Quote from: maphdet on March 13, 2011, 02:46:30 AM

Quote from: Sigmatic on March 13, 2011, 02:33:27 AM
Optimism is a con.

Why?

Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but I think Siggie's saying that optimism is a confidence trick.  :lulz:

Quote from: Captain Utopia on March 13, 2011, 06:24:54 AM
Discordians are all of the above.

RIVERS WILL RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF NONBELEIV- uh, I mean I thought that was implied.  :mrgreen:

Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 13, 2011, 06:43:34 AM

Quote from: maphdet on March 13, 2011, 02:46:30 AM

Quote from: Sigmatic on March 13, 2011, 02:33:27 AM
Optimism is a con.

Why?

Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but I think Siggie's saying that optimism is a confidence trick.  :lulz:

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Tricks are the best illusions. or soemthing

Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 13, 2011, 03:45:15 AM

Or... an optimist sees the glass as half full, a pessimist sees the glass half empty.  A realist knows that there is no way to change the amount of water with out displacing some matter already there.  A discordian dumps out whatever is in said glass, fills it with alcoholic beverage of choice and proceeds to have a good time.  :monkeydance:

No.

The realist says "The water is probably full of arsenic".

I'd like to hear about pros of pessimism, though.

Quote from: Triple Zero on March 13, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
I'd like to hear about pros of pessimism, though.

Rarely disappointed.

Had this conversation with a habitual pessimist recently. I told him,

Look, both the optimist and the pessimist have got it wrong. The optimist is habitually ignorant of horrible things in reality and therefore will do nothing about them, yes, but the pessimist is habitually and terminally MISERABLE, and that misery prevents action as well. Neither one has a balanced view of reality. Better just to scrap value judgments and look at reality first. Neither ignorance nor misery are particularly interesting.

Quote from: Triple Zero on March 13, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
I'd like to hear about pros of pessimism, though.

hahahahah

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2011, 04:16:56 PM

Quote from: Triple Zero on March 13, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
I'd like to hear about pros of pessimism, though.

Rarely disappointed.

That almost sounds like something a pessimist could look forward to ...

No but seriously, "lack of disappointment" doesn't sound particularly pessimistic to me. Yes I understand that from a realistic outside perspective, the pessimist is less often disappointed, but I really doubt a pessimist would even notice.

I think it's a trick question.

In my personal experience optimism makes me feel better. Actually that's just it, I'm only optimistic about very personal things and my personal life. Like, when I say "things have the tendency to turn out allright", I mean about me, about obstacles on my own path. Wouldn't say it about anything else. I find that the optimistic view in fact makes me more likely to undertake action ("assuming things will turn out allright, what needs to happen right now?") than the pessimistic "it'll never work". On the other hand, when I look at the outside world, humanity in general, and/or groups larger than 5 people, pessimism is the safest bet and optimism will nearly always fail you.

But then, depending on your preference, you can frame both optimism and pessimism differently:

	action	inaction
optimism :	"assuming things will turn out allright,           what needs to happen right now?"	"things will turn out allright,           all by themselves"
pessimism :	"they'll never get it right. if you want           something done right,           better do it yourself."	"It'll never work."

If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 14, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

Recently the brands want to build an iPad app that will integrate with the Point of Sale in the stores. The pessimist on the team basically said "no way in hell, its too dangerous." The optimist on the team said "Of course, we can do that because it supports the business." After the meeting the team got together and the paranoids and pragmatists came up with the best options to make it work securely. The pessimist just keeps rolling his eyes and saying its gonna screw us later.

In my experience, Paranoids and Realists, seems far more likely to see flaws and correct for them than pessimists. Though I could be wrong on the way I define pessimist.

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:21:34 PM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 14, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Really?  How about when the pessimist will think of 23 reasons the fucking thing will go wrong, and then corrects for that?

Recently the brands want to build an iPad app that will integrate with the Point of Sale in the stores. The pessimist on the team basically said "no way in hell, its too dangerous." The optimist on the team said "Of course, we can do that because it supports the business." After the meeting the team got together and the paranoids and pragmatists came up with the best options to make it work securely. The pessimist just keeps rolling his eyes and saying its gonna screw us later.

In my experience, Paranoids and Realists, seems far more likely to see flaws and correct for them than pessimists. Though I could be wrong on the way I define pessimist.

You are confusing "pessimist" with "defeatist".  See Trip's post at the top of the page.

Optimism and pessimism are both half-arsed, they're as bad as each other and both are fucking retarded. An optimist has a tendency to dive into things thinking it'll all work out fine cos god's on his side or some dumb shit. Pessimists, on the other hand, come up with a million and one worst case scenarios which tend to stack up until there's no point doing anything but whining. Best to take both views into consideration - what's the worst that can happen, what's the best that can happen? That way you're approaching any situation with both fucking eyes open, you're able to seize opportunities and sidestep any pitfalls along the way.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
proper journalism

:rush:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:

It's still taught, but the reckless ones get safely disposed into managerial jobs where the damage their mistakes make is minimized.

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:57:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Which is now taught about as much as proper journalism.   :lulz:

It's still taught, but the reckless ones get safely disposed into managerial jobs where the damage their mistakes make is minimized.

:lulz:

No.

:lulz:

They're all reckless, rigid-minded shitnozzles who think listening to a millwright's opinion demeans them.  At least the ones here.

I'm blessed in that I'm working in an innovation center and they consider us the ones who make the magic happen. If I ever go working in a corporation I expect to see what you are describing.

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Agreed. That's what I do everyday, though I tend to see it as paranoid pragmatism/realism rather than pessimism.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 14, 2011, 05:50:35 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 05:47:08 PM
proper journalism

:rush:

:crankey:

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 06:20:39 PM

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Agreed. That's what I do everyday, though I tend to see it as paranoid pragmatism/realism rather than pessimism.

What type of engineering do you guys do?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:10:56 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 06:20:39 PM

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Agreed. That's what I do everyday, though I tend to see it as paranoid pragmatism/realism rather than pessimism.

What type of engineering do you guys do?

Software/Network etc.

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 07:11:45 PM

Software/Network etc.

You guys are even worse than the mechanical/electrical geeks. 

TGRR,
Blue screen of death is my OS.

Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 13, 2011, 06:43:34 AM

Quote from: maphdet on March 13, 2011, 02:46:30 AM

Quote from: Sigmatic on March 13, 2011, 02:33:27 AM
Optimism is a con.

Why?

Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but I think Siggie's saying that optimism is a confidence trick.  :lulz:

Heh.  Maybe.  :)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:12:53 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 07:11:45 PM

Software/Network etc.

You guys are even worse than the mechanical/electrical geeks. 

TGRR,
Blue screen of death is my OS.

LOL, thats why I don't use Windows ;-)

My job is looking for security holes in existing software/networks/webapps/etc and helping to design secure solutions for new stuff. So when I look at something I have to consider how many ways it could be broken, what might get exposed if it gets broken and what data might be compromised if it is broken... and then figure out what to do to protect the data, mitigate the risk and fix the flaw.

I recently uncovered a major problem with a system from *insert large software vendor name here*. The system handled credit card numbers. Every transaction was recorded with an encrypted version of the card number, a truncated version of the card number ( 123456******1234 ) and a SHA-1 hash of the card. I came across this as part of an audit and wondered what someone might try to do if they got the file with this data.

Although the encrypted value was secure, a few lines of perl code allowed me to try all possible numbers in the truncated version and then hash them with SHA-1 and compare the hash. We captured about one card every 10 seconds.

:lulz:

So then we got to help the company figure out how to mitigate the risk until the vendor could provide a fix.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 07:10:56 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 06:20:39 PM

Quote from: Faust on March 14, 2011, 05:45:24 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 14, 2011, 02:19:47 PM

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 14, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
If you use only one perception filter, optimism and pessimism both have major flaws. However, in problem solving, an optimist is at least likely to come up with 23 different things to try (maybe one of the will work), while a pessimist is more likely to sit on their hands (which almost never works). In survival situations, an optimist or pragmatist are probably more likely to survive...

I can't really think of a situation where a pessimist is likely to have the advantage.

Balls.  I see this shit every day in maintenance.  Everyone talks best case, and then buys their own hype.  I state what could very possibly go wrong, and when it does, every one blames me after the fact because THEIR stupid, rosy-eyed idea didn't fucking work.

I plan for the very worst case in all things, as much as I am able.  When shit breaks down, I'm ready for it, and when the starry-eyed ideas of the engineer & planner fail, I'm there to plod up and fix it right.

Optimists are a plague on mankind.

That's proper engineering, You don't know your control limits until you test them. The first thing any proper engineer does when confronted with a new system is how to break it.

Agreed. That's what I do everyday, though I tend to see it as paranoid pragmatism/realism rather than pessimism.

What type of engineering do you guys do?

Automation and control from a physics point of view, but I'm currently working on embedded networks and sensor tech which means I'm working in the electronic side.

Ok, so each on it's own is flawed. I see this pattern with many things/scenarios/emotions/isims....each on it's owned is flawed and better left to be open to many views/thoughts that can achieve one's best results. 

Hmmm, So we could say in essence balance is a key?


Personally, I have tried to be both Optimistic and Pessimistic. However-I had failed to open my self to other possibilities.

Note to self: Do Not Forget To Find And Include All Possibilities.

But still-Pessimism still bothers me more than Optimism. What kind of conditioning went on there in my brain.

Simple 'Balance' isn't the key, because static balance is Stagnation.

The ever constant push-pull of the Hodge and the Podge is the best metaphor I've found so far.

Quote from: Telarus on March 20, 2011, 04:18:22 AM
Simple 'Balance' isn't the key, because static balance is Stagnation.

The ever constant push-pull of the Hodge and the Podge is the best metaphor I've found so far.

Not to nit pick-But will do so anyway-;) Wouldn't then the push-pull of anything eventually become stagnant?

Ok-so balance not so much the key.  I can see that.

Hmmm....I think Kai said something about reality. Look at reality. Maybe there is something there. Reality is a constant change. Can constant change become stagnant in of itself as well? If so, then can that be said for most everything/anything. Maybe. No?



Oh, and btw, really, I was not sure where I was going with this thread. I just wanted to see how and where it would roll to.
Almost like a trick question (like Trip said), without the trickery, if you will.

Quote from: maphdet on March 20, 2011, 05:02:36 AM

Quote from: Telarus on March 20, 2011, 04:18:22 AM
Simple 'Balance' isn't the key, because static balance is Stagnation.

The ever constant push-pull of the Hodge and the Podge is the best metaphor I've found so far.

Not to nit pick-But will do so anyway-;) Wouldn't then the push-pull of anything eventually become stagnant?

Ok-so balance not so much the key.  I can see that.

Hmmm....I think Kai said something about reality. Look at reality. Maybe there is something there. Reality is a constant change. Can constant change become stagnant in of itself as well? If so, then can that be said for most everything/anything. Maybe. No?



Oh, and btw, really, I was not sure where I was going with this thread. I just wanted to see how and where it would roll to.
Almost like a trick question (like Trip said), without the trickery, if you will.

If it were a simple pull-push from equally fixed points with equal force, probably. But there are several hodges and podges, they are not uniformly distributed and are of varying strengths.

Well, right. Look at Art, for example. Take the poses of early statues (static egyptian 'one leg forward, hands at the sides' pose) vs/ the later Renaissance masters. The Masters discovered the concept of "contrapposto", or 'balanced-unbalance' (you get all these verbal paradoxes when you try to describe this state with abstract symbolism).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto

QuoteWouldn't then the push-pull of anything eventually become stagnant?

Ah, but it's never the same push-pull. The labels are simply for our pattern matching software's convenience. :fnord: [edit: Ah, Coyote got there with a very apt metaphor.]

Technically, Contrapposto is the sense of capturing ~ not any single pose, but the transition from one pose to the next ~ (real people never hold a pose, and even mimes and other stage performers know that holding a static pose for more than 30 seconds will start a muscle cramp somewhere).

This _constantly_seeking_balance_ runs through the whole of really Real reality, as the Taoist saw well in advance modern technology.

To put it even more simply: This is balance. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOvq3-oG5BM)

I'm going to go reflect on this thread some.

The pros and cons of optimism and pessimism are exactly the same - they're pre-set ways of looking at the world through a lense which will affect your ability to judge and analyse information on its own merits, instead trying to force it into a chosen narrative.

Quote from: Cain on March 21, 2011, 08:47:17 PM
The pros and cons of optimism and pessimism are exactly the same - they're pre-set ways of looking at the world through a lense which will affect your ability to judge and analyse information on its own merits, instead trying to force it into a chosen narrative.

:mittens:

EOT

Quote from: Ratatosk on March 21, 2011, 08:48:22 PM

Quote from: Cain on March 21, 2011, 08:47:17 PM
The pros and cons of optimism and pessimism are exactly the same - they're pre-set ways of looking at the world through a lense which will affect your ability to judge and analyse information on its own merits, instead trying to force it into a chosen narrative.

:mittens:

EOT

Seriously, where is that bastard?

Anyway, I had a conversation with a friend with whom I have much in common last night. He is naturally a "no" person, and I am naturally a "yes" person... the practical difference is, if someone asks me something my automatic reaction is "OK!" and I have to come up with reasons not to do it, whereas his natural reaction is "Nope" and he has to come up with a reason to do it. He often finds his drink unfilled and his party unsatisfying; I often find myself hung over with a mess to clean up. There are advantages to both approaches, and we both found ourselves wishing we were more like the other. I am attracted to "no" people for that reason, and he is attracted to "yes" people (in this case, his wife, one of my close friends). Some people are balanced enough to have a happy medium and make good decisions based on what they really want without a reflex response to get in the way.

I am not sure that optimism and pessimism are quite the right description, but it seemed relevant.

I just knew this thread wouldn't do well.

Quote from: Vivat Alty on March 13, 2011, 02:48:34 AM
They both lead to a sterile, fruitless, grooved way of thinking that I avoid whenever possible.

Excuse my lack of subtly:

An optimist comes across a brick wall in the middle of the road, blocking his path. He smashes his head into it over and over again sure that he will get through eventually.

A pessimist comes to the same wall, turns around and goes home.

A realist finds a way around the wall or a way to remove it.

A DISCORDIAN is the motherfucker who put a wall in the middle of the god damned road.

Combination BAMP and steal?

Pessoptimism:  the glass is half full... Of despair