Well hello. I'm not sure what this is. But it's something about bullshit, lies, delusions and the illusion of enlightenment. As in Buddhism and that stuff. I'm not saying that enlightenment is bullshit, but I'm saying that it is not real.
But here it goes:
"First I had no idea of enlightenment and I was happy, then I thought there was enlightenment and I felt like shit because I had not achieved enlightenment and then finally I understood that there was no enlightenment and I was happy again!
What a stupid fucking road to take."
- Me
It's all in your head.
I just got this "enlightenment" thing. That is that there is no enlightenment.
Once you get that, you are "enlightened".
After that, you will be hitting your head against the wall for a few hours, but it's worth it. :wink:
Did someone show you the true path, did you read about "it" somewhere or were you just bored and thinking about suicide, when suddenly you "knew" that there had to be at least SOMETHING out there to give you meaning and comfort in your daily struggle?
Who made it all up? Who believed it? Who found the evidence to support their claims?
Who suffered the most?
YOU DID.YOU DID. YOU DID.
There is no "path" to "enlightenment". There is just your imagination.
There is no difference between "out there" and "in here".
"Do not try to bend the spoon, it's impossible." :x
That quote above is the truth if you just read it like it is. Do not seek any hidden meaning from it.
You really CAN'T BEND the spoon with your mind.
No really, not even with all your knowledge from the Tibetan mystics and warlocks "from the mountains".
If you want to bend it like, for real, just USE YOUR FUCKING HANDS.
You were enlightened before you started to search the enlightenment.
Then you lost it, because now there has only been the search.
It's right there, you fool! :lulz:
You are just going and seeking and cursing, but there is nothing to be found!
Enlightenment is not about "bliss forever", halo's jumping from your head, third eye or The Ultimate Truth of the dragon-lords, but about realizing that the idea about the enlightenment itself is only YOUR idea.
All that time you were thinking about your own bullshit and searching for enlightenment, life kept on going and it did not care about your delusions.
But you are older now and much smarter, I hope. You are ready to kick the habit of bullshitting yourself.
Of course you are not, but let me keep on going with this rant anyway. Thank you.
Remember those first thoughts about The Meaning of Life?
Now that was THE MOMENT when your life started to suck, like holy shit that existence trip was hard man.
Before that, you just did not give a fuck.
You were ok. Then everything went downhill. It has been now what, five years of searching? Ten?
Twenty?
Zen is difficult because there is no Zen.
The old wise men/women don't speak much, because there actually is not so much to talk about.
They don't know much but they know at least that and that's the reason for them to live their lives in the "Zen way".
They just see life as it is.That's why they hit you with a stick when you keep asking stupid questions.
There are no answers.
KILL YOUR PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT BEFORE THE PATH KILLS YOU!
Everything is already as it should be. You are searching for a thing that does not exist.
That's the best advice I can give.
One thing not to do is to force your way into the enlightenment. You can't force your way in it.
You can't even try. If you are trying to "get it", you will not get it.
And that is, once again, because there is nothing to get.
If you think you are "enlightened", you are not.
But I think anybody can "get it". You don't even have to be super-intelligence-god like me.
No I think that it is actually for the best if you don't know anything at all, when you are trying to not-trying to get it.
You get it?
And now finally when you do realize this all, you also realize that not all delusions are going away just like that.
Some of them are very tricky. You designed them that way.
You will still be you. Now some of you are going "Oh No! Say it ain't so! I can't stand myself! I'll do anything to get rid of me! Oh the torment, the pain." and that's quite normal reaction, but once you get that there is actually NOTHING WRONG with you and nothing TO FIX, you'll get over it. Or not.
You are you and as you, you shall stay. UNTIL YOU DIE.
You are not going to change into a angel-like creature of holy wisdom and endless happiness by understanding your "Buddha-mind" (a.k.a. bullshit-generator-creator).
Oh no, you will still be just yourself.
A simple human-being from planet Earth.
And you will learn nothing that could be considered as something special.
You will still have your addictions, flaws and your endless hate against stupid people and so on.
And that's a great thing.
You are your own worst tormentor and it is you who makes yourself feel like shit every now and then.
You create your own thoughts. You create what you feel.
This should be obvious and you know it.
It's all you and your delusional little mind so use it well.
Just forget the bullshit.
"Before I had studied Chan (Zen) for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers.
When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest.
For it's just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and rivers once again as rivers."
Pft.
There is no path TO enlightenment.
Enlightenment IS a path.
There's no magic on/off switch that you can press to suddenly "get it."
Nobody gets it ALL. Well, there was that ONE guy... but, last I heard, they were still feeding him through a tube and keeping his arms strapped down so he doesn't claw out his other eye.
"Enlightenment" is just a word for "understanding new shit" when somebody's trying to put their hand in your wallet.
The OP is preaching to the choir here, but not a bad rant. Needs to be edited a bit for less redundancy and better narrative flow, but overall I rate it a 7/10.
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 01:15:25 PM
There's no magic on/off switch that you can press to suddenly "get it."
I actually think there
might be a "magic-switch", but it's not a switch you can press yourself.
Quote from: Reeducation on March 18, 2011, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 01:15:25 PM
There's no magic on/off switch that you can press to suddenly "get it."
I actually think there might be a "magic-switch", but it's not a switch you can press yourself.
It's more an infinite series of switches. Just because you "get" one thing doesn't mean you're gonna get it all, is more where I was going with that.
Sometimes the light goes on, sometimes it doesn't.
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: Reeducation on March 18, 2011, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 01:15:25 PM
There's no magic on/off switch that you can press to suddenly "get it."
I actually think there might be a "magic-switch", but it's not a switch you can press yourself.
It's more an infinite series of switches. Just because you "get" one thing doesn't mean you're gonna get it all, is more where I was going with that.
Sometimes the light goes on, sometimes it doesn't.
I agree with that. :)
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 18, 2011, 01:22:43 PM
The OP is preaching to the choir here, but not a bad rant. Needs to be edited a bit for less redundancy and better narrative flow, but overall I rate it a 7/10.
I'm not disagreeing with this, because I note my perception is probably skewed, but I had the impression that a fair chunk of people here believed in "enlightenment". It's more often talked around than explicitly laid out for mockery, mind.
It's not laid out for mockery. I'm just saying that there is nothing to gain from enlightenment.
Because there is no enlightenment as in everlasting ego-death and bliss for thousand years.
Oh, I don't know.
Realizing shit about how the world works can open you up to a shitload of "ohfuq, THIS is what we live with," but it's better than walking around with blinders on.
I have a standing policy of kicking the crap out of anyone that tries to enlighten me.
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 02:13:44 PM
Oh, I don't know.
Realizing shit about how the world works can open you up to a shitload of "ohfuq, THIS is what we live with," but it's better than walking around with blinders on.
Sure - but I wouldn't call it "enlightenment", because that seems to be putting another set of blinders on.
Quote from: Captain Utopia on March 18, 2011, 02:25:00 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 18, 2011, 02:13:44 PM
Oh, I don't know.
Realizing shit about how the world works can open you up to a shitload of "ohfuq, THIS is what we live with," but it's better than walking around with blinders on.
Sure - but I wouldn't call it "enlightenment", because that seems to be putting another set of blinders on.
The blinders never come all the way off... but you can widen the focus, sometimes.
I'll disagree with the OP, but very specifically. I see enlightenment as a normal, if brief and rare, mental state that can be entered by almost any human brain. I see it as a product of removing certain aspects of conditioning and rationality (via drugs, stress, or intense concentration (among other things)). The result of this is terror, perspective, and new understanding.
Because this mental state physically exists, then it should not be rejected. And if you enjoy the terror and understanding, then it should be persued. But because this mental state physically exists, it should not be treated as something extraordinary or mystic.
So: Enlightenment exists, but it's not special.
I don't think I know what this "enlightenment" is anymore. What it means and how it's used are completely different to me at this point in time. But I understand the OP to mean the bullshit sector of so-called "enlightenment" needs to be highlighted as the BIP it ends up being for most folks.
...at least that's what I gathered from it, anyway.
Quote from: Jenne on March 18, 2011, 02:49:23 PM
I don't think I know what this "enlightenment" is anymore. What it means and how it's used are completely different to me at this point in time. But I understand the OP to mean the bullshit sector of so-called "enlightenment" needs to be highlighted as the BIP it ends up being for most folks.
...at least that's what I gathered from it, anyway.
YES! YES! :)
I can't find the right words for this thing, frustrating (well I can't even write the thing I have in my brain in my own language so), so I just have to repeat and say this again:
Enlightenment is that moment when you realize that there is no enlightenment. IMO. That you are hunting your own creation. The idea of enlightenment. The enlightenment itself is an illusion.
There is nothing to get. What is real is real. You can't get into Buddha-mindset because there is no Buddha-mindset. And that's it.
That's the Buddha-mindset.
Once I got this, I just went outside and played football with my kid for the rest of the day.
Quote from: Reeducation on March 18, 2011, 03:08:37 PM
Once I got this, I just went outside and played football with my kid for the rest of the day.
Win :D
But "enlightenment" describes a quality of emotion, at the very least. You cannot reach that emotional state simply by denying it exists.
I think we may be talking about this on two levels.
Enlightenment1 is the overwhelming emotional state of mind, largely consisting of a resolution of cognitive dissonance and/or physical/chemical stress. It is, essentially, a brain state.
Enlightenment2 is the cultural perception of Enlightenment1, declaring it to be a mystical truth-revealing experience.
I agree with LMNO.
Any and all of us may experience Enlightenment1 at any time... particularly if we question our own perceptions and/or beliefs. That some crystal gazing, navel searching fool might think they're gonna get The Enlightenment (Enlightnment2 is more a function of typical monkey brains.
Wait.
Someone define "enlightened" for me.
If it means "seeing the world as it really is, rather than how you'd like it to be", then I'm all for it.
If it means some hippie Buddhist shit about accepting your fate, then KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
Wait.
Someone define "enlightened" for me.
If it means "seeing the world as it really is, rather than how you'd like it to be", then I'm all for it.
If it means some hippie Buddhist shit about accepting your fate, then KILL IT WITH FIRE.
I think that's the root of the conflict here. OP didn't define exactly what he meant by the term.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
Wait.
Someone define "enlightened" for me.
If it means "seeing the world as it really is, rather than how you'd like it to be", then I'm all for it.
If it means some hippie Buddhist shit about accepting your fate, then KILL IT WITH FIRE.
THIS
Enlightenment can be seeing the world or yourself as you really are, or 'belief' and 'certainty' for the joke that they really are... at least IMO.
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 18, 2011, 04:26:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
Wait.
Someone define "enlightened" for me.
If it means "seeing the world as it really is, rather than how you'd like it to be", then I'm all for it.
If it means some hippie Buddhist shit about accepting your fate, then KILL IT WITH FIRE.
THIS
Enlightenment can be seeing the world or yourself as you really are, or 'belief' and 'certainty' for the joke that they really are... at least IMO.
Some things in life ARE certain, though. Most of them have to do with physical laws, of course.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2011, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 18, 2011, 04:26:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
Wait.
Someone define "enlightened" for me.
If it means "seeing the world as it really is, rather than how you'd like it to be", then I'm all for it.
If it means some hippie Buddhist shit about accepting your fate, then KILL IT WITH FIRE.
THIS
Enlightenment can be seeing the world or yourself as you really are, or 'belief' and 'certainty' for the joke that they really are... at least IMO.
Some things in life ARE certain, though. Most of them have to do with physical laws, of course.
Well I agree with that. If you step off a building, you will fall. We might end up have questions of certainty about gravity, mass, space time curvatures and the like as causes... but the effect is pretty damn certain :)
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 18, 2011, 04:37:45 PM
Well I agree with that. If you step off a building, you will fall. We might end up have questions of certainty about gravity, mass, space time curvatures and the like as causes... but the effect is pretty damn certain :)
SQUISH?
this reminds me of a book that i have to pick back up.
it's called "Zen and the Brain" by James Austin M.D.
hes a neuroscientist that practices Zen as well as brain research. it was very interesting, discussing the physiological aspects of the various brain states achieved with Zen...
it was a good number of years ago that i picked it up, but i recall it was pretty dense.
The OP would be very enlightening to many.
I believe the enlightenment described in the OP is a conclusion where one stopped thinking.
I also choose to interpret "enlightened" literally as "un-burdened" mainly in the sense of no longer carrying the mental weight of unanswered questions whether by answering the question or dismissing the value of the answer.
I enjoyed this thread and found many quotable elements in the op. Nice job.
I like the OP
it brings to mind this comic I found the other day:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LO0xP3rNNsI/TQpF4XsiCnI/AAAAAAAACG4/fJmpyMd56aE/s1600/ZenSpeaks.jpg)
I do believe in enlightenment, but I like LMNO's angle on it. It's not like you pass into the enlightened state and remain there for the rest of your life. I have moments of extreme lucidity, and I have long stretches of zombie trance.
I can identify a few moments in my life, however, where something CLICKED -- and I was better for it. I'd call those moments of enlightenment. There's this Zen idea that enlightenment happens suddenly, without warning... it's not like academic knowledge. you don't get it by doing your homework every night for four years and then it's handed to you by some guy in a mortarboard. Anyway, I feel like a douchebag for trying to describe the ineffable so I'll cut it off there. :p
oh, also:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZotQw.jpg)
One thing I'd add is there is enlightenment and there's ENLIGHTENMENT. Like the buddhists are going on about some big mystical all encompassing oneness gobshite but there's also the feeling you get when you realise or learn something new. That's enlightenment too. Buddha will tell you that enlightenment is often accompanied by laughter. You never had that feeling when someone has been trying to explain something to you but you just can't get it but then suddenly the penny drops and you just crack up? That's enlightenment. Happens all the time. ENLIGHTENMENTtm is just that sensation applied to metaphysical wankery
I see "enlightenment" as the ah-ha moment where you have a shift in perspective and GET something. It only lasts for a second, and then the information is integrated into your worldview.
since I've already got the scanner warmed up, here's a few more comics from Zen Speaks about enlightenment
(http://i.imgur.com/tY5rU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ntcns.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/O8j2D.jpg)
I also like that signature that Kai used to use under the "Buddhist Monk Wannabe" handle --- Ten million buddhas in the world -- 99.99% just don't know it yet
Not sure where I read this story, but it stuck.
Student: Master, what is the key to attaining enlightenment?
Master: Awareness.
Student: Could you expand on that a little?
Master: Awareness awareness awareness.
The thrust of the idea was that being aware of the self and it's reactions to an outside world you are also sharply aware of can allow a person to simply choose to be happy, swift, flexible, or whatever even when sad, alone, scared, or any other "negative" state.
(or vice versa)
This chosen feeling is felt simultaneously with the illusion from the outside.
It is no less an illusion, but realizing the non-reality of these perceptions can allow the mind to choose reactions spontaneously or with deliberation.
To me this personal control/letting go is the fruit of simply being mindful at all times while not bothering to react if you see no point.
Of course, once you have consumed the fruit, the fruit is part of you and no longer an object to look at and (inadequately) describe.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (deceased) on March 18, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
I'll disagree with the OP, but very specifically. I see enlightenment as a normal, if brief and rare, mental state that can be entered by almost any human brain. I see it as a product of removing certain aspects of conditioning and rationality (via drugs, stress, or intense concentration (among other things)). The result of this is terror, perspective, and new understanding.
Because this mental state physically exists, then it should not be rejected. And if you enjoy the terror and understanding, then it should be persued. But because this mental state physically exists, it should not be treated as something extraordinary or mystic.
So: Enlightenment exists, but it's not special.
Sure it is special.
Enlightenment is special, orgasm is special, sheer existential terror is special, laughter is special, That burst of adreneline that a mother gets when her child is trapped under a car that lets her lift it is special.
Just because all of these things exist and can be explained with rational processes does not stop them from being extraordinary, or mystic.
Tuth. Everything is either mundane as fuck or utterly amazing, just depends how you choose to view it.
Quote from: Reeducation on March 18, 2011, 12:59:30 PM
You will still have your addictions, flaws and your endless hate against stupid people and so on.
I have no hate for people, I really don't. And it took some realizations to achieve that. And if you call enlightenment that moment where you "get it", then yes, I was enlightened in some respect and achieved (or fell into) hatelessness. I also would accept any mystical metaphor phor the experience. But I guess that's a conversation for a different, too-many-times-rehashed, thread.
To deny that there is a progress or path in life is the wrong denial, I think. On the other hand, to deny that you
must go somewhere or do something or progress along a path to be at peace, enlightened, or whichever word you're using; that would be a denial I agree with.
I apologize for the length of this reply. My intention is not to hijack, but to clarify my own thoughts I have been fomenting, and share. These thoughts were brought to a head by this thread, and I composed this little essay in response.
There is an allegory about a dove, who, feeling the resistance of the wind against her wings, imagines that she would fly faster without any air at all. Of course, this is false because it is the wind that holds her up, and in a vacuum, the beating of her wings would indeed encounter no resistance, and thus provide no upward or forward thrust.
This brings to my mind the contrast between freedom, free will, the power of the will, and the measure of control we can have on our lives and our world versus all that we cannot control, all that is handed to us as is. God hands us lemons, we decide what to do with them (my favorite answer is say "Lemons! I love lemons! What else do you have?").
Hypothetically, we all want freedom and happiness. This is subjectively true for me. However the thought experiment of the experience machine points out that happiness and freedom alone are not enough. The experience machine removes the resistance that life offers us.
In a metaphor from physics, this is why a perpetual motion machine won't work. If we completely remove all resistance, how will the moving parts of a machine find any purchase to move? Each individual part will simply glide past every other moving part like dark matter, not interacting at all with the other parts. In order to interact with the world, you must have resistance.
This goes straight to the meaning I find in life. A life without any resistance would be meaningless. I am happier not getting what I want all the time.
Morrowind is a computer game in which you are a character exploring a fictional world. The game is open-ended; you can do whatever you want and define your own goals -there is no single way to "win". This game is able to be modified by the player, and you can pull up a console in which you can change any part of the game. You can give your character superhuman powers of flight, give them every magical spell and weapon, make them invisible and invincible. You can fly around the world and kill all of your enemies with mind bullets, take anything you want with telekinesis, walk on water and breathe underwater. There really is nothing you can't do. If you try cheating this way once, you won't ever do it again. It is terribly boring. The game becomes the dumbest, most pointless game ever. Imagine a simple game: push the "g" key on your keyboard. Oh my God wasn't that fun! Too easy right? Not enough resistance?
I have always been paralyzed by choice. I hate ordering at restaurants. I just want them to give me some good food, but I don't want to decide. All the best things in my life have happened to me accidentally. Living in a world where I instantaneously got whatever I wanted would mean that I had to constantly decide on what I wanted. What if I want to be surprised? What if I want some contrast? What if I don't want every meal to taste like the best meal in my life? Wouldn't that make everything insipid? What if life already is perfect because it is not perfect?
If you owned everything in the world, where would you put it?
If you tricked the genie by wishing for infinite wishes, when would you stop wishing? When would you meet life on its terms, rather than cheating?
Wishing for enlightenment carries the same pitfall. "Well, if I could just have a state of mind where I wasn't bothered by all of life's little annoyances and setbacks and enormous tragedies and cancers and that little pain in the back of my neck..."
Maybe wishing for enlightenment, even though you know it is unwise, is just another of life's little annoyances you must accept by saying "Lemons! I love lemons! What else do you have?"
Personally I enjoy cheats because they allow me to explore and experience games in ways that I could not otherwise. Mind you I will not usually use them, especcially when I first play the game, but after I have played a while and either defeated it or found that it is beyond my capabilities then cheats become much more interesting. They let me get into places that I can't otherwise and do things that I can't otherwise. I don't play to win, I play for fun and there are times when cheats create a novel experience that is more fun, for a while, than playing the game normally. There are also some games which include cheats that actually make the game harder and those can add to the fun as well. Personally I like my experience to be as customizable as possible, and if I could apply this to real life I would very much appreciate it.
Cool. My thread didn't die yet. :)
@ Cramulus
That's a great comic. I found that same item from a flea market about two weeks ago.
Quote from: Phlogiston Merriweather on July 20, 2011, 02:11:40 PM
This brings to my mind the contrast between freedom, free will, the power of the will, and the measure of control we can have on our lives and our world versus all that we cannot control, all that is handed to us as is. God hands us lemons, we decide what to do with them (my favorite answer is say "Lemons! I love lemons! What else do you have?").
I don't understand. They're not actually lemons, but a metaphor for unpleasant things.
In the original saying, that means "When life gives you unpleasant things <lemons>, make the best of it / turn it into a positive <lemonade>".
Your answer is kind of confusing and nonsensical, "Unpleasant things! I love unpleasant things! What else do you have?". If you love them, they're no longer unpleasant, so they're more like grapefruit or something.
:)
QuoteHypothetically, we all want freedom and happiness. This is subjectively true for me. However the thought experiment of the experience machine points out that happiness and freedom alone are not enough. The experience machine removes the resistance that life offers us.
actually, the machine is supposed to provide happiness without freedom (because you decide your fate the moment you get in), in order to show that just happiness is not enough.
however, your point about resistance is good. I believe Nigel called it "challenge" in another thread, I think that's an even better term.
QuoteImagine a simple game: push the "g" key on your keyboard. Oh my God wasn't that fun! Too easy right? Not enough resistance?
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
this game is too hard.
QuoteI have always been paralyzed by choice. I hate ordering at restaurants. I just want them to give me some good food, but I don't want to decide. All the best things in my life have happened to me accidentally. Living in a world where I instantaneously got whatever I wanted would mean that I had to constantly decide on what I wanted. What if I want to be surprised? What if I want some contrast? What if I don't want every meal to taste like the best meal in my life? Wouldn't that make everything insipid? What if life already is perfect because it is not perfect?
In the restaurant, don't look at the menu, order last and pick something that your friends ordered, the one that sounds best. That way, you reduce your choices to three or four, and in addition you reduce the chance that during the meal you look at another plate and think "hmm I wish I had ordered that instead" (because you got the same as at least one other plate).
For some reason I used to always think you're all supposed to order something different in a restaurant. Dunno why, but I've really had discussions along the lines of "oh if you're going to have that, I'll have the other thing". In hindsight it really doesn't make a lot of sense.
Anyway, I don't know if you're already familiar with it, but this TED Talk pretty much describes exactly what you're saying:
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_choice
Additionally, this has nothing to do with what you're saying but I've never been able to wrap my head around it, yet it allows you to mathemagically turn one ball into two balls of the same size and it makes no sense whatsoever:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice
QuoteIf you owned everything in the world, where would you put it?
Well, informally put, the axiom of choice says that given any collection of bins, each containing at least one object, it is possible to make a selection of exactly one object from each bin. In many cases such a selection can be made without invoking the axiom of choice; this is in particular the case if the number of bins is finite, or if a selection rule is available: a distinguishing property that happens to hold for exactly one object in each bin. For example for any (even infinite) collection of pairs of shoes, one can pick out the left shoe from each pair to obtain an appropriate selection, but for an infinite collection of pairs of socks (assumed to have no distinguishing features), such a selection can only be obtained by invoking the axiom of choice.
So I guess either they'd get lost in the washer or dryer or something, or maybe I'll just put all my stuff on the moon.
QuoteIf you tricked the genie by wishing for infinite wishes, when would you stop wishing? When would you meet life on its terms, rather than cheating?
Wasn't there a comic or something about this premise? Like an omnipotent godlike being, gotten so bored of being able to do everything that he wished himself a mortal life (returning to being a god again after his mortal life was over, I guess).
(But then of course, if the cat's away the mice dance on the table, and some big bad evil demigod decides to do his evil thing as long as the god is away on his mortal vacation and the plot thickens ...)
QuoteWishing for enlightenment carries the same pitfall. "Well, if I could just have a state of mind where I wasn't bothered by all of life's little annoyances and setbacks and enormous tragedies and cancers and that little pain in the back of my neck..."
If you wish for that though, most genies would probably just kill you dead.
QuoteMaybe wishing for enlightenment, even though you know it is unwise, is just another of life's little annoyances you must accept by saying "Lemons! I love lemons! What else do you have?"
Except in this case it'd go "Lemons! I love le--GAK URK SPLATTER"
One reason to all get something different in a restaurant is so that you can share, and you thus have a wider range of choices.
Of course people generally don't do this usually, but it is a lot of fun when people do.
Triple Zero: thank you for the rather detailed response. I agree with everything you said. Except the axiom of choice thing, which I don't see how it applies. I can pick one individual thing from each of all the groups of things? There are certainly worse things in life than some lemons, and it doesn't make sense to say you love them, because you don't, nor should you. I think making the distinction between things that are actually unlovable and things that are lovable if you just change your attitude is important.
Sometimes I think enlightenment is freedom from wanting to be enlightened. Sometimes this all just hurts my head, the self-referential circles.
The "axiom of choice" thing is bullshit, sorry, I just got reminded of it cause it sounds like "paradox of choice", and this axiom (which is aa completely different subject) has been bugging me for years now.
You didn't mention if you already were familiar with the TED Talk or not. If you haven't watched it, I strongly suggest you do. It's like 15 minutes or so.
Yes, I saw the talk. It has made me a lot more comfortable with my indecisiveness. I'm fairly decisive where it matters, but there are times when it just doesn't, and I can get caught spinning my wheels instead of just moving on, because I am looking for meaning where there is none. I think decisions are best made subconsciously, or intuitively. When I get to the point where I am trying to rationalize the entirely unrational decision about what I want, I try to get back to making an intuitive choice. No amount of reason is going to help me decide if I want blackberry jam or raspberry jam when standing in the grocery store. I know some people that insist on making up post-hoc reasons for liking the things they like (my mother in law is the worst). She always has some long, well thought out explanation for her preference in wine or the color she painted the wall or whatever. She can't ever just admit that she liked it for no particular fucking reason. I think she thinks these rational explanations lend more credence to her opinions, whereas I think our opinions are just as valid as our reason, and neither needs to appeal to the other in defense of our decisions. Which is, I think, the point of "Or kill me" , i.e. no explanation necessary.