No shit, there I was.
That's how all the best stories start out, really.
No, shit, there I was, at Pennsic. If you're not in the SCA, you don't understand. It's Mecca, it's The Big One. For a lot of SCAdians, Pennsic is home, it's a week or two of being where you WANT to be, where you'd live year-round if you could. It wasn't my first Pennsic, but it was in the first few.
It's amazing. Thousands of people, all there to have a good time. Walk down one of the roads, strike up a conversation with a complete stranger, and it's all good. Hear music you like being sung in a camp? Stop at the gate, listen, and it's pretty usual to get invited in, offered a chair and a beer, and join the party. It's camping with thousands of your closest friends, including a ton you just haven't met yet. I'd say there's noplace in the world like it. There might be, somewhere, but I don't know where it is. Smaller events, sure, but nothing on this scale.
So, there I was.
It was late one night, nothing special. The rest of the camp had started to wander off to bed. My fiance was fast asleep. I just wasn't tired, yet. Decided to take a walk down around the lake, watch the stars. It was a beautiful night. The Perseid meteor showers were still going on, the sky was crystal clear, and, down around the lake, there wasn't much light pollution at all, you could see forever.
Most of the parties had already wound down. Maybe the field battle was the next day, I don't remember, really, I just remember how quiet it was, how peaceful, how beautiful.
He had a knife. I never even saw him coming.
I'd never be able to identify him. It was dark, it happened... It happened so fast, but like it was in slow motion, all at the same time.
All I could think of while I walked back to camp was, how do I tell him? How do you tell your fiance that something like that had happened? How do you talk about it at all? How do you deal with the questions, not just the ones that get asked, but the ones that don't?
It's easier if you don't, you think. Just take what happened, shove it down into a box, lock it up, and never think about it again.
Sounds easy, doesn't it?
It's not.
Not when you flinch for years when you're touched when you're not expecting it. Not when even the idea of any kind of intimate contact makes you think back to what happened.
That was the worst part, you know.
The worst part was not being able to tell him... And he never asked.
I know I changed, after that. Who wouldn't? But he never asked why, never asked what happened. Never asked why I wouldn't leave camp alone, after that, not even in broad daylight. Never asked why I stopped wanting to go down by the lake.
We didn't last much longer, after that. I doubt he ever understood why.
Am I over it, now? You tell me.
This is the first time I've given anybody this many details, right here. I've told the women I camp with to be careful, that they shouldn't leave camp alone, I've made sure of it when I could. I've told a few friends more details, but not many.
What kind of fucked up world is it that people can be hurt like that, and, no matter how it happened, they feel like they can't talk about it?
Fuck you, world.
I don't know what to say, probably because I lack the words to express how awful it is, but I am glad you have the strength to talk about it now.
At the risk of sounding trite (I don't think my minor discomfort should get in the way) I'm sorry you had to experience that. I can't imagine...
It sucks. It's a horrible thing to live through. And the 'healing' process is often every bit as horrible as the thing itself. Let it out, let it go - as much as you can, and live on.
It was a long time ago. I've dealt with a lot of the shit on my own, I've dumped bits of it on friends, and I've realized... the worst part is not being able to talk about it. You lock up about one thing, and you don't talk about other stuff. It all gets jammed up.
Time to be rid of it.
Quote from: Luna on March 20, 2011, 01:10:24 AM
It was a long time ago. I've dealt with a lot of the shit on my own, I've dumped bits of it on friends, and I've realized... the worst part is not being able to talk about it. You lock up about one thing, and you don't talk about other stuff. It all gets jammed up.
Time to be rid of it.
What is it that you guys say? "This is the correct motorcycle."
EDIT: I think it's wiser to delete this post.
There's no magic wand to make it go away. It happened. I got through it without losing any body parts. Was it awful? Absolutely.
Was it the worst thing in the world? Hell, no.
I get that, I do. It could have gone worse. Hell, I've read things here on this board that I'd rather go through that again than have to see. And it happened when I was 21, not younger. I've worked with kids who've had the same thing happen to them, and worse. I'm not as screwed up as it left them.
The thing that haunts me is that the son of a bitch is still out there, somewhere. I know I couldn't identify him, couldn't today, couldn't then, and going to the cops would have been pretty damn useless... But it haunts me that he's probably done it again.
Have you tried RAINN's online anonymous support?
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2011, 04:49:52 AM
Have you tried RAINN's online anonymous support?
No... When it happened, that sort of thing wasn't available. (Hell, there wasn't hardly an internet back then.)
I think about it, now and then, just never did it.
And now... I'd feel nuts calling to talk about something that happened so long ago.
You can do it via secure chat now.
Why would you feel nuts? It had a serious impact on your life. People talk about their weddings and birthdays and the birth of their children, the death of their parents for years on end. Good things and bad things leave marks on us that last years if not our whole lives. Just because this was something horrible doesn't mean you don't have the right to talk about it if you want to. You say the world is a fucked up place, was when it happened. You had fewer options to discuss it in a way that allowed you to feel safe doing so.
The world has changed just a little bit in that there are more options. You talking about this won't make someone else hurt you or leave you exposed in an unsafe position. If you want to talk you can. If you don't, that's cool too. No need to feel nuts either way. Whatever helps you.
Sorry if I over-stepped, Luna.
No worries, you didn't overstep. Went to bed, is all.
I'll think about it.
You're very brave for opening up about this, Luna. I've been molested, and didn't follow-through on prosecution (I was 12, it was a very public scene, and I just shoved it down and forgot about it, literally, for 4 years while being afraid of every grown male in my life). I keep wondering how much of what I went through in that instant of time has shaped who I am today. I'm thinking quite a bit more than I'd care to admit.
If those of us who've been through it don't open up, nobody will.
For fuck's sake, people who are mugged don't have to feel ashamed it happened. They don't get asked if they were wearing expensive clothes, what WERE they doing in that part of town that late at night, and didn't they KNOW better than to wave their wallet around to pay the cab driver?
Tangent, because it happened just now while I'm sitting here at lunch. Why do people think it's okay to fling around the word like it means less than it does? The Red Sox did NOT get raped last week, they lost. I assure you, none of them will be looking back at the game in a decade and shuddering.
Language is important, fuckwit, use it right. Don't water down words.
Quote from: Jenne on March 21, 2011, 04:35:38 PM
You're very brave for opening up about this, Luna. I've been molested, and didn't follow-through on prosecution (I was 12, it was a very public scene, and I just shoved it down and forgot about it, literally, for 4 years while being afraid of every grown male in my life). I keep wondering how much of what I went through in that instant of time has shaped who I am today. I'm thinking quite a bit more than I'd care to admit.
Keep thinking, but remember, it was NEVER your fault. And that they're not all bad.
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 04:45:05 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 21, 2011, 04:35:38 PM
You're very brave for opening up about this, Luna. I've been molested, and didn't follow-through on prosecution (I was 12, it was a very public scene, and I just shoved it down and forgot about it, literally, for 4 years while being afraid of every grown male in my life). I keep wondering how much of what I went through in that instant of time has shaped who I am today. I'm thinking quite a bit more than I'd care to admit.
Keep thinking, but remember, it was NEVER your fault. And that they're not all bad.
Yeah, 25 years later, I'm pretty well over it. But I'm also pretty positive it had an impact on my dating life, etc.
Quote from: Jenne on March 21, 2011, 06:03:12 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 04:45:05 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 21, 2011, 04:35:38 PM
You're very brave for opening up about this, Luna. I've been molested, and didn't follow-through on prosecution (I was 12, it was a very public scene, and I just shoved it down and forgot about it, literally, for 4 years while being afraid of every grown male in my life). I keep wondering how much of what I went through in that instant of time has shaped who I am today. I'm thinking quite a bit more than I'd care to admit.
Keep thinking, but remember, it was NEVER your fault. And that they're not all bad.
Yeah, 25 years later, I'm pretty well over it. But I'm also pretty positive it had an impact on my dating life, etc.
Hell, I wasn't 12 when it happened, and it affected mine... Of course it did.
Also, not your fault.
Playing "what if it didn't happen" is counterproductive, though. It happened, no changing it.
If it is still nagging at you (and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is, it's been nearly that long for me, too), then you need to grab it, stare it in the eye, and kick it in the balls a few times until it crawls into a corner, curls up into a little, whimpering ball, and shuts the fuck up.
No, no, I don't do that. The way I dealt with it was I actually FORGOT about it. I mean, forgot and then BING! remembered in a very interesting yet random way. I doesn't dog my existence at all. In fact, it only comes up when I hear about stories like yours. I actually have very little baggage that I knowingly FEEL over it anymore. When I was age 12-16, though, the way it manifested itself was that I was mortally afraid to be in the same room with anyone who wasn't my dad, male and over 30.
But yeah, since I BING! remembered it on my 16th birthday, it really hasn't been something I feel I have to deal with on a regular basis.
In other words, I'm damned lucky.
This is the most I've talked about it or even thought of it, for instance, in decades.
I think it's important to talk about it. So many people don't know; they assume everyone who's been raped is a basket case; suicidal, frigid, promiscuous, a lesbian... something. And it DOES fuck with your head, your love life, everything. The only way to heal from it is to talk about it, own it, and yes, in a way that means normalizing a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is, we are normal. I was raped when I was 15, and I still hate those "how did you lose your virginity" conversations when they come up, because my choices are to A: lie, or B: sock a total fucking damper to the party.
I have chosen the damper, and I'm not sorry.
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
I think it's important to talk about it. So many people don't know; they assume everyone who's been raped is a basket case; suicidal, frigid, promiscuous, a lesbian... something. And it DOES fuck with your head, your love life, everything. The only way to heal from it is to talk about it, own it, and yes, in a way that means normalizing a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is, we are normal. I was raped when I was 15, and I still hate those "how did you lose your virginity" conversations when they come up, because my choices are to A: lie, or B: sock a total fucking damper to the party.
I have chosen the damper, and I'm not sorry.
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
:mittens:
By the way, therapy is something I highly recommend. I mean, I think it's fucking awesome for dealing with shit, especially shit you haven't quite figured out or have a hard time talking about. I think I have spent a good three years substituting this board for therapy, and actually, it's pretty effective for that. But a good therapist is better.
I spent about eight years in fairly intensive therapy from 18 (within a month of leaving home) until I had my first kid. It's really hard to find a good therapist, but after jumping ship from a few I had a run of really good luck with a team of two awesome ladies who helped me a lot.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
I think it's important to talk about it. So many people don't know; they assume everyone who's been raped is a basket case; suicidal, frigid, promiscuous, a lesbian... something. And it DOES fuck with your head, your love life, everything. The only way to heal from it is to talk about it, own it, and yes, in a way that means normalizing a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is, we are normal. I was raped when I was 15, and I still hate those "how did you lose your virginity" conversations when they come up, because my choices are to A: lie, or B: sock a total fucking damper to the party.
I have chosen the damper, and I'm not sorry.
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
100% agreed. And I do wish I'd have gotten help/therapy when I was younger. It's a shame I didn't.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Assuming the statistics are accurate . . . There are something like 4040 members on this board. If we split it down the middle and say 2000 are women, 2000 are men, and 40 are bots/alts/etc . . . then 500 women and 200 men on this board have been sexually assaulted.
That's a whole heap of 'you aren't alone'.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 21, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Assuming the statistics are accurate . . . There are something like 4040 members on this board. If we split it down the middle and say 2000 are women, 2000 are men, and 40 are bots/alts/etc . . . then 500 women and 200 men on this board have been sexually assaulted.
That's a whole heap of 'you aren't alone'.
It is... except when people don't talk about it. Then, it's very, very easy to feel alone.
Quote from: Jenne on March 21, 2011, 06:35:51 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
I think it's important to talk about it. So many people don't know; they assume everyone who's been raped is a basket case; suicidal, frigid, promiscuous, a lesbian... something. And it DOES fuck with your head, your love life, everything. The only way to heal from it is to talk about it, own it, and yes, in a way that means normalizing a terrible thing, but the fact of the matter is, we are normal. I was raped when I was 15, and I still hate those "how did you lose your virginity" conversations when they come up, because my choices are to A: lie, or B: sock a total fucking damper to the party.
I have chosen the damper, and I'm not sorry.
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
100% agreed. And I do wish I'd have gotten help/therapy when I was younger. It's a shame I didn't.
There's no such thing as "too late" until you're dead. And the only sense in regret is if you can somehow use the knowledge of where things went wrong to help yourself or someone else, ya know?
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 21, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Assuming the statistics are accurate . . . There are something like 4040 members on this board. If we split it down the middle and say 2000 are women, 2000 are men, and 40 are bots/alts/etc . . . then 500 women and 200 men on this board have been sexually assaulted.
That's a whole heap of 'you aren't alone'.
It is... except when people don't talk about it. Then, it's very, very easy to feel alone.
Yeah, that's true. :(
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 21, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Assuming the statistics are accurate . . . There are something like 4040 members on this board. If we split it down the middle and say 2000 are women, 2000 are men, and 40 are bots/alts/etc . . . then 500 women and 200 men on this board have been sexually assaulted.
That's a whole heap of 'you aren't alone'.
It is... except when people don't talk about it. Then, it's very, very easy to feel alone.
Yep... exactly why I think it's important to talk about it. And, for those of us who have dealt with the aftermath and are comfortable doing so, it's completely OK and good and right to mention it in a matter of fact way. People struggle so much with shame... you aren't ashamed when you're mugged, or get punched out in a bar, or have your car stereo stolen. Why do we feel so much that it reflects on us, when the crime is sexual?
This is gonna sound weird, but I think it would be a lot easier if rape was treated more like theft or like other kinds of assault. We could be angry and righteously indignant, instead of ashamed. Most o f the damage isn't from the actual rape, most of the time; it's from the social reaction and the idea that still exists, unspoken, that our purity has been fouled somehow, and we are less valuable because of it.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
People struggle so much with shame... you aren't ashamed when you're mugged, or get punched out in a bar, or have your car stereo stolen. Why do we feel so much that it reflects on us, when the crime is sexual?
Because the automatic assumption is that it's somehow your FAULT when it happens to you.
"What was she wearing?" "Why were you there alone at that time of night?" "How much had he had to drink?" "Didn't she know not to leave her drink unattended?" "Were you flirting with him?" "Had he done that sort of thing before?"
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:46:41 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 21, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
It's not just OK to talk about it; it's necessary and right. One in four women has been raped, and one in ten men. If we don't talk about it, we feel like freaks who have something hidden wrong with us. It's not we who are the freaks.
Assuming the statistics are accurate . . . There are something like 4040 members on this board. If we split it down the middle and say 2000 are women, 2000 are men, and 40 are bots/alts/etc . . . then 500 women and 200 men on this board have been sexually assaulted.
That's a whole heap of 'you aren't alone'.
It is... except when people don't talk about it. Then, it's very, very easy to feel alone.
Yep... exactly why I think it's important to talk about it. And, for those of us who have dealt with the aftermath and are comfortable doing so, it's completely OK and good and right to mention it in a matter of fact way. People struggle so much with shame... you aren't ashamed when you're mugged, or get punched out in a bar, or have your car stereo stolen. Why do we feel so much that it reflects on us, when the crime is sexual?
There's the fact that rape can leave you feeling very violated and tainted. Unclean. Weak. Flawed. And from kids on up we're taught to shun the dirty smelly people and mock everyone for every possible flaw from freckles to fat.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
This is gonna sound weird, but I think it would be a lot easier if rape was treated more like theft or like other kinds of assault. We could be angry and righteously indignant, instead of ashamed. Most o f the damage isn't from the actual rape, most of the time; it's from the social reaction and the idea that still exists, unspoken, that our purity has been fouled somehow, and we are less valuable because of it.
It's a throwback to the old "woman belongs to a man, ownership transfers from father to husband" bullshit.
It's the lingering "but what if the kid isn't MINE" shit.
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 06:57:09 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
This is gonna sound weird, but I think it would be a lot easier if rape was treated more like theft or like other kinds of assault. We could be angry and righteously indignant, instead of ashamed. Most o f the damage isn't from the actual rape, most of the time; it's from the social reaction and the idea that still exists, unspoken, that our purity has been fouled somehow, and we are less valuable because of it.
It's a throwback to the old "woman belongs to a man, ownership transfers from father to husband" bullshit.
It's the lingering "but what if the kid isn't MINE" shit.
Yes. It is. It hearkens back to a time when women were possessions, and their sexual "purity" proof that they were new, not pre-owned. It's funny, but not only am I happier in relationships where my partner takes no ownership of my kids, but my kids are happier too.
I came out with no kids... something for which I'm both grateful and sad.
(Glad I'm not dragging a kid through this shit, sad because I love kids, and am to the point of thinking that it's damn near too late, and I wasted a decade and a half being led on by "one more raise before we do" and may have lost my chance.
Having kids was good for me. It isn't good for everyone, though.
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 07:25:55 PM
Having kids was good for me. It isn't good for everyone, though.
Of this I am VERY aware. I used to work with some very, VERY fucked up kids whose parents should have been taken out and shot. (Residential home for emotionally disturbed teenagers. Of our 12 residents, 11 had been sexually abused, most by family members. One of them had three children... and she was 17.)
If I don't have my own, being auntie isn't a bad second, I suppose. Got a ton of friends currently expecting. (Which is, at the moment, occasionally hard to take.)
Quote from: Luna on March 21, 2011, 07:30:49 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 21, 2011, 07:25:55 PM
Having kids was good for me. It isn't good for everyone, though.
Of this I am VERY aware. I used to work with some very, VERY fucked up kids whose parents should have been taken out and shot. (Residential home for emotionally disturbed teenagers. Of our 12 residents, 11 had been sexually abused, most by family members. One of them had three children... and she was 17.)
If I don't have my own, being auntie isn't a bad second, I suppose. Got a ton of friends currently expecting. (Which is, at the moment, occasionally hard to take.)
My friends are all having kids right now, which seems weird... my youngest is seven, and I'm SO DONE having kids.
Kids seem to get born regardless of any parental planning, or domestic stability. I think women's hormones quite often trick them into getting pregnant at the drop of a hat. Especially young women, because the optimum age for giving birth is 15 to 25ish. And up until about 70 years ago, giving birth was the biggest killer of women there was. And there must be some kind of deception going on, because I was present at both my kid's births, and saw the pain you women go through to push them out, and some of you actually do it again, 2 or 3 times! Your genes must have some thing that makes you forget the pain of it all, because if you remembered it, we'd all be only children.