http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/nearly-of-mississippi-republicans-think-interracial-marriage-should-be-illegal.php
QuoteAmericans nationwide are evenly divided over the issue of same sex marriage. But Republicans in Mississippi are divided over a wholly different wedlock issue: interracial marriage.
In a PPP poll released Thursday, a 46% plurality of registered Republican voters said they thought interracial marriage was not just wrong, but that it should be illegal. 40% said interracial marriage should be legal.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 08, 2011, 05:59:40 PM
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/nearly-of-mississippi-republicans-think-interracial-marriage-should-be-illegal.php
QuoteAmericans nationwide are evenly divided over the issue of same sex marriage. But Republicans in Mississippi are divided over a wholly different wedlock issue: interracial marriage.
In a PPP poll released Thursday, a 46% plurality of registered Republican voters said they thought interracial marriage was not just wrong, but that it should be illegal. 40% said interracial marriage should be legal.
:lulz:
They don't even feel the need to hide it, anymore.
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
It would not surprise me to discover that a sizeable portion of the people against interracial marriage are black.
Racism isn't just for whites after all.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 08, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
It would not surprise me to discover that a sizeable portion of the people against interracial marriage are black.
Racism isn't just for whites after all.
Well, sure, because Blacks - given their history - just can't understand that segregation of any type is a bad thing.
LET'S SEE SOME FUCKING NUMBERS. Because, otherwise, this reads like the conservatards at Capitol Grilling.
really?
it would surprise me...
i guess it depends on what 'sizable' is.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:19:39 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 08, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
It would not surprise me to discover that a sizeable portion of the people against interracial marriage are black.
Racism isn't just for whites after all.
Well, sure, because Blacks - given their history - just can't understand that segregation of any type is a bad thing.
LET'S SEE SOME FUCKING NUMBERS. Because, otherwise, this reads like the conservatards at Capitol Grilling.
I'm unaware of anyone tracking party affiliation by ethnicity or if someone does, I can't find it at the moment and so can't give you any numbers at the moment soooo.. widthdrawn.
speculation is purely speculation. I'll see if I can find anything to either confirm or deny when I get home.
I did find this: http://www.zata3.com/about-zata3/statewide-survey-of-african-american-voters-in-mississippi
which states that: African Americans in Mississippi approve of the Democratic Party by a healthy 5:1 margin.
doesn't say anything about whether they were polling registered voters or not.
[EDIT] it does say they were registered voters, but doesn't say whether it was done based on party affiliation. It was sponsored by Zata|3 Consulting, a Democrat and progressive advocacy group, but that doesn't, of course, mean it was skewed.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 08, 2011, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
It would not surprise me to discover that a sizeable portion of the people against interracial marriage are black.
Racism isn't just for whites after all.
Considering it was only a phone poll of only republicans I would be very surprised if that was case. Not to say it can't be
heres the actual poll
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_MS_0407915.pdf
Ill start going over it in a bit.
Given that they were probing at a racially charged issue, I'm surprised they appear to have neglected to as for race in the survey.
Thurna, you're just not up to speed on American right-wing trends.
The Blacks are the racists, now...Because we can infer from Louis Farrakan that all Blacks hate Whites, and from Jeremiah Wright that all Blacks hate America.
400 years of White domination of Blacks? Oh, that's all gone. Especially in hotbeds of forward-thinking types like Mississippi. And the republican party in general.
The first thing I notice is that 46% think interracial marriage should be illegal, 40% legal
but only 40% consider themselves very conservative, meaning there are people polled that think that position is moderate or only a little conservative.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:37:18 PM
The first thing I notice is that 46% think interracial marriage should be illegal, 40% legal
but only 40% consider themselves very conservative, meaning there are people polled that think that position is moderate or only a little conservative.
Well, sure. And because 37.2% of the state is Black, then there's only 8.8% of White people that don't want interracial marriage, because, as we all know (see above), Blacks are the New Racists. Just ask any right winger.
Quote from: Luna on April 08, 2011, 06:36:12 PM
Given that they were probing at a racially charged issue, I'm surprised they appear to have neglected to as for race in the survey.
probably cause they didn't feel the need to do that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:37:18 PM
The first thing I notice is that 46% think interracial marriage should be illegal, 40% legal
but only 40% consider themselves very conservative, meaning there are people polled that think that position is moderate or only a little conservative.
Well, sure. And because 37.2% of the state is Black, then there's only 8.8% of White people that don't want interracial marriage, because, as we all know (see above), Blacks are the New Racists. Just ask any right winger.
:lulz:
No matter who answered the question... that is entirely absurd.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:37:18 PM
The first thing I notice is that 46% think interracial marriage should be illegal, 40% legal
but only 40% consider themselves very conservative, meaning there are people polled that think that position is moderate or only a little conservative.
Well, sure. And because 37.2% of the state is Black, then there's only 8.8% of White people that don't want interracial marriage, because, as we all know (see above), Blacks are the New Racists. Just ask any right winger.
:lulz:
Of course, it would be silly to assume that the racial divide in Mississippi didn't completely heal up since 1964, and that most Blacks would be democratic. No, this poll was done using only registered republicans, so we can infer that the state that had the largest exodus of Black people in American history is now composed of Black Republicans who want misegnation laws reinstated.
Quote46% of these hardcore Republican voters believe interracial marriage should be illegal,
while 40% think it should be legal. With Barbour included, Huckabee gets more support
(22%) from the former than the latter (15%), as does Palin (13-6). The support for
Bachmann (10-2), Gingrich (13-8), and Pawlenty (4-1) works the opposite way.
If you want my preliminary opinion (and this maybe wrong cause it's so early that these numbers are in) is this is religious in nature. White King James Jesus wants all those brown people to keep to themselves and go back to Muslimland.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
No matter who answered the question... that is entirely absurd.
HELLO!
WHAT DECADE ARE
YOU LIVING IN?
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:47:37 PM
Quote46% of these hardcore Republican voters believe interracial marriage should be illegal,
while 40% think it should be legal. With Barbour included, Huckabee gets more support
(22%) from the former than the latter (15%), as does Palin (13-6). The support for
Bachmann (10-2), Gingrich (13-8), and Pawlenty (4-1) works the opposite way.
If you want my preliminary opinion (and this maybe wrong cause it's so early that these numbers are in) is this is religious in nature. White King James Jesus wants all those brown people to keep to themselves and go back to Muslimland.
NO! THIS IS THE BROTHER MAN GETTING ON THE OTHER MAN! :argh!:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
No matter who answered the question... that is entirely absurd.
HELLO!
WHAT DECADE ARE YOU LIVING IN?
:lulz:
The decade of the Absurd, apparently!
Mississippi: 37.5% Uncle Ruckus (no relation).
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
No matter who answered the question... that is entirely absurd.
HELLO!
WHAT DECADE ARE YOU LIVING IN?
:lulz:
The decade of the Absurd, apparently!
Well, here in the "teens", the train drives backward. Get used to it. And don't be on the tracks, capisce?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:57:14 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
No matter who answered the question... that is entirely absurd.
HELLO!
WHAT DECADE ARE YOU LIVING IN?
:lulz:
The decade of the Absurd, apparently!
Well, here in the "teens", the train drives backward. Get used to it. And don't be on the tracks, capisce?
:lulz:
Right, I'll stay off the tracks... I mean unless I have a body I need disposed of
wow apparently this story is only 2 years old
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91371629
QuoteMississippi integrated its public schools in 1970, but segregation still haunts parts of the culture. One example of this could be found at Charleston High School. The Delta town had maintained a system of separate proms — organized privately — for black and white students.
As far back as 1997, actor Morgan Freeman, a Charleston local, offered to pay for the dance if everyone could go. This year, officials finally accepted the offer. A Canadian film crew led by Paul Saltzman documented the event for the upcoming Prom Night in Mississippi.
A photographer working with the crew says people in Charleston didn't question the segregated dances. But as the big night approached, the importance of the change became clear. Catherine Farquharson followed several kids as they washed their cars and had their hair done.
She describes one encounter in an African-American beauty parlor, in which an elderly woman who'd been part of the civil rights movement stopped in to see what the hubbub was about. The woman ended up giving an impromptu testimony about the history these young people were about to make. "It was almost like it didn't occur to a lot of the kids, until the day of the prom, how important what was going on really was," Farquharson reports.
Student Chasidy Buckley says that Charleston's first interracial prom made for a happy and comfortable night. Some white parents wouldn't let their kids go, and some insisted on holding a private prom for their kids. But mostly, Buckley says, students enjoyed themselves — even if they'd expected a boring formal.
"It was just magnificent," Buckley says. "That night, when we stepped in that door, everybody just had a good time. We proved ourselves wrong. We proved the community wrong, because they didn't think that it was going to happen."
Buckley says the school has decided to host a prom next year, giving black and white kids another chance to dress up and step out. "It's going to continue to go on in our school, and if it continues to go on in our school, then our community will continue to improve," she says. "It'll impact them, too, because once they see that blacks and whites can come together in school and have fun together, then they'll see that the community can change, too."
Just so you know I have read on several sites they have polled the whole state. It is just that the republican voters have been released first.
I lost the sites I was reading due to firefox collapsing and not reloading the sites on reboot.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Just so you know I have read on several sites they have polled the whole state. It is just that the republican voters have been released first.
I lost the sites I was reading due to firefox collapsing and not reloading the sites on reboot.
Interesting. So they polled Democrats about Republican presidential contenders?
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Just so you know I have read on several sites they have polled the whole state. It is just that the republican voters have been released first.
I lost the sites I was reading due to firefox collapsing and not reloading the sites on reboot.
Interesting. So they polled Democrats about Republican presidential contenders?
Read that again, sport.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 08, 2011, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Just so you know I have read on several sites they have polled the whole state. It is just that the republican voters have been released first.
I lost the sites I was reading due to firefox collapsing and not reloading the sites on reboot.
Interesting. So they polled Democrats about Republican presidential contenders?
Read that again, sport.
yeah, I got that, but it wasn't clear if it was the same exact battery of questions.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Just so you know I have read on several sites they have polled the whole state. It is just that the republican voters have been released first.
I lost the sites I was reading due to firefox collapsing and not reloading the sites on reboot.
Interesting. So they polled Democrats about Republican presidential contenders?
Probably shit about Obama and hows he's doing
then, "so how racist are you?"
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
Still waiting to hear how Blacks all hate Blacks.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:56:33 PM
Mississippi: 37.5% Uncle Ruckus (no relation).
:lulz:
I remember when some tea party clown was running for office in Mississippi he argued that stores should be allowed to refuse to sell to blacks.
He justified it by saying he wasnt racist just a LOLbretarian.
I was talking to a friend of mine from Mississippi about it and he said that if I thought that would lose him any votes down there I was dead wrong.
I though he was exaggerating until now.
I wonder how some of the self proclaimed LOLbretarians in the Mississippi Tea Party would justify banning interracial marriage?
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually
MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Jesus fuck, I thought I was done with this shit when my great grandfather died. You're telling me there are still millions of these fuckers out there?
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Could be frustrations with the economy?
Failing education system?
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:01:25 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 06:56:33 PM
Mississippi: 37.5% Uncle Ruckus (no relation).
:lulz:
I remember when some tea party clown was running for office in Mississippi he argued that stores should be allowed to refuse to sell to blacks.
He justified it by saying he wasnt racist just a LOLbretarian.
I was talking to a friend of mine from Mississippi about it and he said that if I thought that would lose him any votes down there I was dead wrong.
I though he was exaggerating until now.
I wonder how some of the self proclaimed LOLbretarians in the Mississippi Tea Party would justify banning interracial marriage?
I suspect that because the laws were overturned by SCOTUS, it comes out to being bad nasty feds walking all over 'state rights'.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Yes, actually. Hook them with on any number of a variety of issues, make 'em adopt the rest.
Joy of Satan comes to mind: Hate Christianity? Want to become a Satanist? Cool, here's some stuff. The Christian god is evil, as can readily be demonstrated by any rational person with a Bible in their hands. Also, occult powers. Hooked yet? Good. Alright, so Christian god is actually the Jewish god. Jewish god invented Christianity to suppress the Gentiles via his evil Jew followers who want to concentrate all financial and occult power into the Jewish elite. Oh, the Jews are behind everything, by the way, and Hitler was good to throw them inhumanely into ovens and "showers." He was a dude who knows what's up, a good Aryan Satanist. Ergo, any good Satanist is a Nazi. Oh, and Jehovah is actually a grey alien posing as a god, as evidenced by that one picture that Aleister Crowley drew, even though he said it wasn't an alien after all and just gave it to the dude who guessed that's what it was because he really needed his heroin fix, but let's ignore that fact for now.
Granted, it seems like Joy of Satan is not racist in the purest sense of the word, but they are rabidly anti-Semitic, and hide the fact at first unless you do some digging.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 09, 2011, 12:12:56 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Could be frustrations with the economy?
Failing education system?
Or maybe racial tolerance....
is too mainstream. /
:hipster:
We are in desperate need of a hipster emoticon.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on April 09, 2011, 12:44:47 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Yes, actually. Hook them with on any number of a variety of issues, make 'em adopt the rest.
Joy of Satan comes to mind: Hate Christianity? Want to become a Satanist? Cool, here's some stuff. The Christian god is evil, as can readily be demonstrated by any rational person with a Bible in their hands. Also, occult powers. Hooked yet? Good. Alright, so Christian god is actually the Jewish god. Jewish god invented Christianity to suppress the Gentiles via his evil Jew followers who want to concentrate all financial and occult power into the Jewish elite. Oh, the Jews are behind everything, by the way, and Hitler was good to throw them inhumanely into ovens and "showers." He was a dude who knows what's up, a good Aryan Satanist. Ergo, any good Satanist is a Nazi. Oh, and Jehovah is actually a grey alien posing as a god, as evidenced by that one picture that Aleister Crowley drew, even though he said it wasn't an alien after all and just gave it to the dude who guessed that's what it was because he really needed his heroin fix, but let's ignore that fact for now.
Granted, it seems like Joy of Satan is not racist in the purest sense of the word, but they are rabidly anti-Semitic, and hide the fact at first unless you do some digging.
What is this I dont even...
Im tempted to say "People actually believe that?" but I know for a fact there are much stranger religions out there.
But still, how high do you have to be to even think something like that up?
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:49:38 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on April 09, 2011, 12:44:47 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
Yes, actually. Hook them with on any number of a variety of issues, make 'em adopt the rest.
Joy of Satan comes to mind: Hate Christianity? Want to become a Satanist? Cool, here's some stuff. The Christian god is evil, as can readily be demonstrated by any rational person with a Bible in their hands. Also, occult powers. Hooked yet? Good. Alright, so Christian god is actually the Jewish god. Jewish god invented Christianity to suppress the Gentiles via his evil Jew followers who want to concentrate all financial and occult power into the Jewish elite. Oh, the Jews are behind everything, by the way, and Hitler was good to throw them inhumanely into ovens and "showers." He was a dude who knows what's up, a good Aryan Satanist. Ergo, any good Satanist is a Nazi. Oh, and Jehovah is actually a grey alien posing as a god, as evidenced by that one picture that Aleister Crowley drew, even though he said it wasn't an alien after all and just gave it to the dude who guessed that's what it was because he really needed his heroin fix, but let's ignore that fact for now.
Granted, it seems like Joy of Satan is not racist in the purest sense of the word, but they are rabidly anti-Semitic, and hide the fact at first unless you do some digging.
What is this I dont even...
Im tempted to say "People actually believe that?" but I know for a fact there are much stranger religions out there.
But still, how high do you have to be to even think something like that up?
Religion has always been a dumbass excuse for dumbass ideas. You want to be a Satanist? Ok, cool, if it works for you it works for you. Most Satanists, from what I gather are LaVeyan, and therefore atheists/philosophical Satanists. You want to be a Theistic Satanist, ok, again, whatever floats your boat. If you get some sort of spiritual/psychological validation out of it, go for it. Want Satanism to be an excuse for hating Jews? No, ok, fuck off. You're a fucking Nazi. And a dumbass. Seriously, click around on their site. Seems at first like, ok, cool, you're doing a Satanic thing and it works for you. More power to you. Click. Woah.... No, You all suck.
Type it into google. Here's the first three results you get as you're typing it:
Joy of Satan ministries
Joy of Satan exposed
Joy of Satan Nazi
Plenty of other Satanists, I gather, fucking hate them.
Them and ONA, there's a perpetual low level flamewar going on over it in the Satanist subforum on a religion forum I visit.
Of course, there's also the people who insist that either the Nazi types aren't really real satanists, or that they don't exist and its really Christian propaganda.
I dunno, makes sense to me. Christianity grew from Judaism, if you hate Christianity, chances are you hate Jews too.
I'm not a fan of Satanists of any stripe though generally.
http://fgcp.org/content/interracial-marriage
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2011/04/argument-against-interracial-marriage.html
(comment section makes weird reading)
http://www.learnthebible.org/interracial-marriage.html
(this guys all "interracial marriage is alright, just not as alright")
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 09, 2011, 01:07:13 AM
I dunno, makes sense to me. Christianity grew from Judaism, if you hate Christianity, chances are you hate Jews too.
I'm not a fan of Satanists of any stripe though generally.
Ok, here's a difference.
Do you hate Christianity or Christians?
Do you hate Judaism or Jews?
Do you hate organized religion as a dogmatic restricting force, or do you hate the people who believe in a particular religion?
It's an easy choice.
I don't like the god that the followers of Abrahamic religions portray. And yet.... most of my friends are some flavor of Christian, and some of them are Jewish. Do I fault them for it? No.
Here's an awesome example. A very good friend of mine, and his wife, are Lutheran ministers. While they were in seminary, and while I went to visit them in Ohio, we decided to spend a weekend in their native Indiana, where the dude of that couple's father was also a Lutheran minister. I am affectionately known in that family as "Kevin the Pagan" and I don't have a problem with that. Since it was on a weekend, and we were staying with the good reverend, we, out of politeness, had to go to church. The topic that the ELCA chose for a sermon that weekend? False Gods. My friend's minister father, preacher man, man of heretic Christian god (as a former Catholic, I affectionately refer to my friends as heretics. As Christians, they refer to me affectionately as an apostate) preached, very tactfully, about money being a false god. And then the reverend gave me several very good home brewed beers after the service. Here I am, an apostate, an atavist, going back and worshiping gods he sees as demons. But I'm his son's friend, and a decent bloke to boot, and with an awkward topic to sermonize about. I felt welcome, and liked. I even put money in the collection plate.
As a former Catholic, I've never felt so welcome or comfortable in a church. As the good book says, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
Quote from: Doktor Blight on April 09, 2011, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 09, 2011, 01:07:13 AM
I dunno, makes sense to me. Christianity grew from Judaism, if you hate Christianity, chances are you hate Jews too.
I'm not a fan of Satanists of any stripe though generally.
Ok, here's a difference.
Do you hate Christianity or Christians?
Do you hate Judaism or Jews?
Do you hate organized religion as a dogmatic restricting force, or do you hate the people who believe in a particular religion?
It's an easy choice.
I don't like the god that the followers of Abrahamic religions portray. And yet.... most of my friends are some flavor of Christian, and some of them are Jewish. Do I fault them for it? No.
Here's an awesome example. A very good friend of mine, and his wife, are Lutheran ministers. While they were in seminary, and while I went to visit them in Ohio, we decided to spend a weekend in their native Indiana, where the dude of that couple's father was also a Lutheran minister. I am affectionately known in that family as "Kevin the Pagan" and I don't have a problem with that. Since it was on a weekend, and we were staying with the good reverend, we, out of politeness, had to go to church. The topic that the ELCA chose for a sermon that weekend? False Gods. My friend's minister father, preacher man, man of heretic Christian god (as a former Catholic, I affectionately refer to my friends as heretics. As Christians, they refer to me affectionately as an apostate) preached, very tactfully, about money being a false god. And then the reverend gave me several very good home brewed beers after the service. Here I am, an apostate, an atavist, going back and worshiping gods he sees as demons. But I'm his son's friend, and a decent bloke to boot, and with an awkward topic to sermonize about. I felt welcome, and liked. I even put money in the collection plate.
As a former Catholic, I've never felt so welcome or comfortable in a church. As the good book says, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
Makes sense. My opinion of Satanists isn't high enough to expect them to get the distinction though.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
It's the only way they can piss off their hippy parents.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 09, 2011, 01:28:54 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on April 09, 2011, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 09, 2011, 01:07:13 AM
I dunno, makes sense to me. Christianity grew from Judaism, if you hate Christianity, chances are you hate Jews too.
I'm not a fan of Satanists of any stripe though generally.
Ok, here's a difference.
Do you hate Christianity or Christians?
Do you hate Judaism or Jews?
Do you hate organized religion as a dogmatic restricting force, or do you hate the people who believe in a particular religion?
It's an easy choice.
I don't like the god that the followers of Abrahamic religions portray. And yet.... most of my friends are some flavor of Christian, and some of them are Jewish. Do I fault them for it? No.
Here's an awesome example. A very good friend of mine, and his wife, are Lutheran ministers. While they were in seminary, and while I went to visit them in Ohio, we decided to spend a weekend in their native Indiana, where the dude of that couple's father was also a Lutheran minister. I am affectionately known in that family as "Kevin the Pagan" and I don't have a problem with that. Since it was on a weekend, and we were staying with the good reverend, we, out of politeness, had to go to church. The topic that the ELCA chose for a sermon that weekend? False Gods. My friend's minister father, preacher man, man of heretic Christian god (as a former Catholic, I affectionately refer to my friends as heretics. As Christians, they refer to me affectionately as an apostate) preached, very tactfully, about money being a false god. And then the reverend gave me several very good home brewed beers after the service. Here I am, an apostate, an atavist, going back and worshiping gods he sees as demons. But I'm his son's friend, and a decent bloke to boot, and with an awkward topic to sermonize about. I felt welcome, and liked. I even put money in the collection plate.
As a former Catholic, I've never felt so welcome or comfortable in a church. As the good book says, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
Makes sense. My opinion of Satanists isn't high enough to expect them to get the distinction though.
I don't judge people on their beliefs, even if they are Satanists. If anything I have a decent regard for Satanists. It comes down to the individual. Let's take the example here. We have a lot of atheists, a couple of Christians, a couple of Buddhists, and a couple of potpourri, including us stinky Pagans. But, were are all the children of Eris. we have a common philosophy. To some, Eris is a metaphor. To others she is a goddess. Who cares? The nuances aren't really that important as long as we;re all on the same page.
Also.
Rum here.
This thread is now about religion.
It's Mississippi, chances are a good portion of those people opposed to miscegenation think their views are the ones a good Christian should have.
Quote from: Susan on April 09, 2011, 01:36:35 AM
This thread is now about religion.
Nah Susan, fuck that. I was just using it as na illustrative example. I will ignore any further religious overtones to not take away from the thing.
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african Americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
Still waiting to hear how Blacks all hate Blacks.
god I wish I could bold that twice.
once again, saying I said something I didn't say. The question was about interracial marriage. Your words actually imply that only whiteys would be against it and that racism in the black community is strictly a construct of right wingers.
oh that's right, you're doing what I did, only reversed, assuming that a sizable number of black people would be registered democratic..
only, I respectfully withdrew what I said because I don't have numbers.. while you're still assuming
dick way to reply. you're baiting and I'm biting. I was hoping we could keep this nice.
but that's not how business is done around here!
:walken:
[EDIT] based on my limited research, you're more than likely correct that a majority of the black community identifies democratic, but that doesn't mean I ever implied that it's "duh blacks" that ran up the vote at all.. and while I'm at it, the topic is stupid. Maybe Mississippi doesn't like WHITE people who would think it's ok to marry someone with more melanin in their skin. It takes two to tango, after all.
fuck it, I've been drinking and shouldn't even be in this thread. Racism isn't going away in your lifetime anymore than classism is. This shit went on for the entirety of human existence on this planet and because we've made reforms (very significant reforms) in under 50 years, there are people who honestly believe it's just going to be gone in one generation??
I don't think I've ever been high enough to agree with that position, nor ever will be.
Pickle -- out.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 09, 2011, 01:41:10 AM
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african Americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
Still waiting to hear how Blacks all hate Blacks.
god I wish I could bold that twice.
once again, saying I said something I didn't say. The question was about interracial marriage. Your words actually imply that only whiteys would be against it and that racism in the black community is strictly a construct of right wingers.
oh that's right, you're doing what I did, only reversed, assuming that a sizable number of black people would be registered democratic..
only, I respectfully withdrew what I said because I don't have numbers.. while you're still assuming
dick way to reply. you're baiting and I'm biting. I was hoping we could keep this nice.
but that's not how business is done around here!
:walken:
[EDIT] based on my limited research, you're more than likely correct that a majority of the black community identifies democratic, but that doesn't mean I ever implied that it's "duh blacks" that ran up the vote at all.. and while I'm at it, the topic is stupid. Maybe Mississippi doesn't like WHITE people who would think it's ok to marry someone with more melanin in their skin. It takes two to tango, after all.
fuck it, I've been drinking and shouldn't even be in this thread. Racism isn't going away in your lifetime anymore than classism is. This shit went on for the entirety of human existence on this planet and because we've made reforms (very significant reforms) in under 50 years, there are people who honestly believe it's just going to be gone in one generation??
I don't think I've ever been high enough to agree with that position, nor ever will be.
Pickle -- out.
:lord:
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
DUDE
srsly
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 06:36:36 PM
Thurna, you're just not up to speed on American right-wing trends.
The Blacks are the racists, now...Because we can infer from Louis Farrakan that all Blacks hate Whites, and from Jeremiah Wright that all Blacks hate America.
400 years of White domination of Blacks? Oh, that's all gone. Especially in hotbeds of forward-thinking types like Mississippi. And the republican party in general.
I'm 41
the only 450 year olds I know are elves. and neither the black or white elves, have a comment.
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on April 08, 2011, 06:41:22 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 08, 2011, 06:36:12 PM
Given that they were probing at a racially charged issue, I'm surprised they appear to have neglected to as for race in the survey.
probably cause they didn't feel the need to do that.
THAT'S
called media representation. You love stats and the media, right? Just because those things are infallible and true?
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 08, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
except they neglect to mention that Mississippi's population is 37% black, the highest proportion in the nation, and if it's also the most conservative state in the nation, it stands to reason that a fair number of african americans there are registered republican. I'd be more interested to see the demographics of who gave that answer.
Still waiting to hear how Blacks all hate Blacks.
EVER
heard the word "nigger"?
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 09, 2011, 12:05:54 AM
Demographics for your convenience
Quote18-29: 31% legal, 54% illegal, 15% not sure
30-45: 48% legal, 38% illegal, 15% not sure
45-65: 49% legal, 39% illegal, 12% not sure
older than 65: 30% legal, 56% illegal, 14% not sure
Wow... The younger generation is actually MORE racist than the last.
Did the KKK start a youth outreach program?
YES
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 09, 2011, 01:07:13 AM
I dunno, makes sense to me. Christianity grew from Judaism, if you hate Christianity, chances are you hate Jews too.
I'm not a fan of Satanists of any stripe though generally.
LIKE
Quote from: Susan on April 09, 2011, 01:36:35 AM
This thread is now about religion.
YES
and race. and the cumulative of those things.
Quote from: E.O.T. on April 09, 2011, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 06:36:36 PM
Thurna, you're just not up to speed on American right-wing trends.
The Blacks are the racists, now...Because we can infer from Louis Farrakan that all Blacks hate Whites, and from Jeremiah Wright that all Blacks hate America.
400 years of White domination of Blacks? Oh, that's all gone. Especially in hotbeds of forward-thinking types like Mississippi. And the republican party in general.
I'm 41
the only 450 year olds I know are elves. and neither the black or white elves, have a comment.
The racial dynamic in Mississippi didn't rise from a void. You have to look at how it was influenced by history in order to understand it. This doesn't mean making excuses or being apologetic for black or white separatists, but if you want to talk about reality, as things are today, you cannot simply dismiss the past.
Quote from: E.O.T. on April 09, 2011, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: Susan on April 08, 2011, 06:36:36 PM
Thurna, you're just not up to speed on American right-wing trends.
The Blacks are the racists, now...Because we can infer from Louis Farrakan that all Blacks hate Whites, and from Jeremiah Wright that all Blacks hate America.
400 years of White domination of Blacks? Oh, that's all gone. Especially in hotbeds of forward-thinking types like Mississippi. And the republican party in general.
I'm 41
the only 450 year olds I know are elves. and neither the black or white elves, have a comment.
Yes, how silly of me. The past has no bearing on the present at all.
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 10, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
You're going to hate the next century. :lulz:
OK GUYS
i'm thinking in terms of black/ white relations where i walk down the street, mispissispi yeah certainly, has more relevancy in the issue of slavery. i can't say what folks there think about slavery's effect on cultural relations is and i really don't care. i have no plans to go there and plenty of reasons not to. it's the persistence of the media aggravation, and the definition of slavery adhered to the made for t.v. movie which make it an issue between blacks and whites and also, i think possibly more importantly how blacks and whites feel about themselves.
IN A TEXT
discussion about this thread, niggle (HA! I MEANT NIGEL BUT, I'M LETTING THIS VERSION STAY) asked me why whites hate being called white and i was like duh, white guilt, nigga! the fallacy of the "white devil" however, and all of the political/ social conditioning around slavery just falls apart when one actually studies the facts of how the slave trade to north america developed, and who really had slaves in the states and what that meant.
I RESERVE
the idea of being "racist" for pretty specific terms. i assume more than 90% of folks are just totally ignorant of whatever, and to me, this is why democracy kinda sucks. articles like what this thread is centered on are to me, incite-full propaganda. statistics are totally fucked because almost never are enough, nor the right questions put forward. notice the article comes with a built in assurance of accuracy. "don't bother to think, we're telling you this is true."
SEPARATISM
may be what some people want. i think that issue is very complex. the point of this article is stupid, because the feds would squash this in two hot seconds. let mississippi be mississippi. i don't want a mcworld. i don't as an individual, want to politically start moving in a direction of "what we do with people we disagree with".
E.O.T.
lives in the insulated bubble of hyper leftist junkies in pdx, protected by a militant army of idealist hipsters.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 10, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 10, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
You're going to hate the next century. :lulz:
Actually I think it will be fun. Shitting on creationists and Neocons is fun but its too easy. A resurgence in both LOLbretarianism and good ol' fashioned racism would give me plenty of arguments/fist fights(Damn creationists never want to brawl) to have.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 12, 2011, 10:51:41 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 10, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 10, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
You're going to hate the next century. :lulz:
Actually I think it will be fun. Shitting on creationists and Neocons is fun but its too easy. A resurgence in both LOLbretarianism and good ol' fashioned racism would give me plenty of arguments/fist fights(Damn creationists never want to brawl) to have.
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
Those people actually think that's the panacea that will fix everything. that gives me the giggles.
It'd be like hyenas to a carcass.. much like it already is, only with more carcass, and lions.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 12, 2011, 10:51:41 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 10, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 10, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
You're going to hate the next century. :lulz:
Actually I think it will be fun. Shitting on creationists and Neocons is fun but its too easy. A resurgence in both LOLbretarianism and good ol' fashioned racism would give me plenty of arguments/fist fights(Damn creationists never want to brawl) to have.
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
Those people actually think that's the panacea that will fix everything. that gives me the giggles.
It'd be like hyenas to a carcass.. much like it already is, only with more carcass, and lions.
Name one government that has worked in manner different from the bolded text.
And the underlined text is contestable.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 13, 2011, 12:18:48 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 12, 2011, 10:51:41 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 10, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 10, 2011, 07:57:46 AM
What Im scared of is that this reversion to dumbfuckery might not be isolated in Mississippi.
What if its reflective of a general surge in the popularity of conservative ideas in general?
I dont want to hear the kid handing me my fries spouting off about the glory of the free market.
You're going to hate the next century. :lulz:
Actually I think it will be fun. Shitting on creationists and Neocons is fun but its too easy. A resurgence in both LOLbretarianism and good ol' fashioned racism would give me plenty of arguments/fist fights(Damn creationists never want to brawl) to have.
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
Those people actually think that's the panacea that will fix everything. that gives me the giggles.
It'd be like hyenas to a carcass.. much like it already is, only with more carcass, and lions.
Name one government that has worked in manner different from the bolded text.
And the underlined text is contestable.
granted, that would be the only way it can work. which is why I'm always amazed at anyone who claims to not be a statist yet doesn't challenge tax laws and actually encourages more of them.
as for the underlined part, I believe the bank bailouts, the billions "lost" in Iraq, and bottomless charge cards you hear about being audited by accountability groups every so often (among other things) all support that. I'm not saying it's absolute, nothing is. But it's enough IMO.
I would even go so far as to propose the idea that ability to account for dollars is inversely proportional to the amount of dollars within the coffers. Somehow I'd have to work in how many people have their hands IN the coffers.. but it comes again that no one really fucking knows, do they? [EDIT]
the bold part is really just me being a dramatic fuck. I'm in no way saying I could somehow develop a theorem that helps prove this. My math is good, but it isn't THAT good.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
And just who do you think is doing this?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2011, 01:15:22 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
And just who do you think is doing this?
It's nothing more than the talk you hear at a bar among friends, or in the public square, where ratings drive the rhetoric. There is no political capital to seriously raise taxes back to 60's and early 70's levels among either democrats or republicans. that's because too many of both party above the state level are filthy rich, and their local constituents fill their coffers every election. I never fail to be amused by democrats who honestly believe the national party actually have concern for lower income people. They've no more concern than the national republican party.
these people don't give a damn about you.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 02:22:10 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2011, 01:15:22 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
And just who do you think is doing this?
It's nothing more than the talk you hear at a bar among friends, or in the public square, where ratings drive the rhetoric. There is no political capital to seriously raise taxes back to 60's and early 70's levels among either democrats or republicans. that's because too many of both party above the state level are filthy rich, and their local constituents fill their coffers every election. I never fail to be amused by democrats who honestly believe the national party actually have concern for lower income people. They've no more concern than the national republican party.
these people don't give a damn about you.
So what? They never have. But who elects them?
Look, it's really quite simple...If you want roads and bridges and all the other fucking things that make modern life POSSIBLE, including this very internet, you have to pay for it. Since corporate America is even more retarded than the government (when there's any distinction at all), and since the constitution demands that the government do things like roads, etc, then the government's going to have to manage it.
Now, I don't know what they're teaching these days, but last I checked, none of this shit is free. If you care to bitch about HOW your taxes are spent, I'm right there with you...We don't need 12 carrier fleets, let alone the 13th one they're building, and we DO need some of our infrastructure fixed.
But if you're against paying for necessities on
principle, then drag your entitled little arse down to Somalia, where they don't do awful shit like that, and let the rest of us get our cheap yuks in, in peace.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2011, 02:37:38 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 02:22:10 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2011, 01:15:22 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
my favorites are people who honestly believe that taking a lot of money from people who've earned it, under threat of imprisonment or worse, and somehow magically distributing from a central repository with little to no accountability is somehow the magic bean that grows the stalk that everyone can climb.
And just who do you think is doing this?
It's nothing more than the talk you hear at a bar among friends, or in the public square, where ratings drive the rhetoric. There is no political capital to seriously raise taxes back to 60's and early 70's levels among either democrats or republicans. that's because too many of both party above the state level are filthy rich, and their local constituents fill their coffers every election. I never fail to be amused by democrats who honestly believe the national party actually have concern for lower income people. They've no more concern than the national republican party.
these people don't give a damn about you.
So what? They never have. But who elects them?
Look, it's really quite simple...If you want roads and bridges and all the other fucking things that make modern life POSSIBLE, including this very internet, you have to pay for it. Since corporate America is even more retarded than the government (when there's any distinction at all), and since the constitution demands that the government do things like roads, etc, then the government's going to have to manage it.
Now, I don't know what they're teaching these days, but last I checked, none of this shit is free. If you care to bitch about HOW your taxes are spent, I'm right there with you...We don't need 12 carrier fleets, let alone the 13th one they're building, and we DO need some of our infrastructure fixed.
But if you're against paying for necessities on principle, then drag your entitled little arse down to Somalia, where they don't do awful shit like that, and let the rest of us get our cheap yuks in, in peace.
The best (or worst... ) part of this discussion is that we'd probably agree on a lot of things.. I'm not entirely clear on who's brain should hemorrhage more because of that, so I'll just grab a tissue to stop the nose bleed and say this: local roads are built (to my knowledge, at least in my state) using local taxes. I could be biased on this point as it seems there hasn't been a single side of my city undergoing some form of road expansion or construction, and that's because we voted to increase the local sales tax in order to pay for it. costs have long since overrun the amount expected to be collected by the tax. We're just going to eat it in other ways. I have no problem paying for roads, but things like that should be taken care of at the local level and not dolled out by a congressman who spends maybe 4 months out of 12 actually living in the state. I'd even pay a toll to use a newer, faster way to whatever side of town I wanted to get, even if that toll went to *gasp* the government. As long as it was competitively bid, budgeted, and bird dogged for waste and abuse.
In all fairness, a lot of the major cabling for the internet was already being put in place before local cable TV companies had to come in and start running fiber optics and installing junctions for coax to individual houses to bring us the internet we know today. Much of this was probably done with heavy government subsidies, something I AM against on principal, but would find it hard to argue considering the benefits it's given us. Still, make it or break it on your own if you're incorporated. If you fail to control your costs and go under, someone with better experience will step in and buy your liquidated assets and put them back into use.
I'm with you on the military size. absolutely unnecessary IMO. Shipyards do employ a lot of people though so it's a bit of a catch 22 if the private sector isn't building ships... Fortunately, quite a few ships are being pumped out of yards at the moment by private entities.
I guess I'm more worried about the insiders clubs that get their buddies sweetheart contracts without bidding out to smaller co.'s that could do the same work for less money.
And bitch about corporations all you want, they still (for now) employ more people than the government, and by that, give more opportunity to save and build a financial foundation to more people.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 03:08:46 AM
The best (or worst... ) part of this discussion is that we'd probably agree on a lot of things.. I'm not entirely clear on who's brain should hemorrhage more because of that, so I'll just grab a tissue to stop the nose bleed and say this: local roads are built (to my knowledge, at least in my state) using local taxes. I could be biased on this point as it seems there hasn't been a single side of my city undergoing some form of road expansion or construction, and that's because we voted to increase the local sales tax in order to pay for it. costs have long since overrun the amount expected to be collected by the tax. We're just going to eat it in other ways. I have no problem paying for roads, but things like that should be taken care of at the local level and not dolled out by a congressman who spends maybe 4 months out of 12 actually living in the state. I'd even pay a toll to use a newer, faster way to whatever side of town I wanted to get, even if that toll went to *gasp* the government. As long as it was competitively bid, budgeted, and bird dogged for waste and abuse.
Quote from: US Constitution, article I, Sec 8, clause 7To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
Anywhere the post office goes, the federal government is required to build roads. Some of this is foisted off on local government, as a matter of convenience, but certainly in the case of federal highways, the federal government is obligated to do this.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 03:08:46 AM
In all fairness, a lot of the major cabling for the internet was already being put in place before local cable TV companies had to come in and start running fiber optics and installing junctions for coax to individual houses to bring us the internet we know today. Much of this was probably done with heavy government subsidies, something I AM against on principal, but would find it hard to argue considering the benefits it's given us. Still, make it or break it on your own if you're incorporated. If you fail to control your costs and go under, someone with better experience will step in and buy your liquidated assets and put them back into use.
Are you against plastics and computers on principle? Because those were brought to you by the space program, which started out as a military project, and then was run under NASA, part of the executive branch. The sad fact of the matter is that most innovations are driven by government research...If you look at the output of Argonne and Fermilab alone, there's a hell of a lot more science being done by the government than by corporations.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 03:08:46 AM
I guess I'm more worried about the insiders clubs that get their buddies sweetheart contracts without bidding out to smaller co.'s that could do the same work for less money.
Welcome to all of recorded history.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 13, 2011, 03:08:46 AM
And bitch about corporations all you want, they still (for now) employ more people than the government, and by that, give more opportunity to save and build a financial foundation to more people.
I work for a large corporation (Big Oil as a matter of fact), and yes they do employ more people, but they are also twice as retarded as the most gin-soaked senator...Because they HAVE to be. The future of a CEO is dictated by QUARTERLY P&L statements, so he can't think more than 3 months in advance, because if he makes long term decisions that mean short term losses, the stockholders (usually mutual funds) throw him out on his arse, because everyone wants to get rich on their stocks, and they want it NOW. The entire capitalist system is just as retarded as communism was, it just takes longer to break down.
...corporations aren't in it to "save peoples' lives" and protect them...only so far as their bottom line goes. We've all seen there's an end to that particular rope. Government should be protecting its own...that's the purpose for government, but not at the cost of "the little people." Not at the cost of those who can't protect themselves. Period.
Also, boasting corporations employ more people while bitching about big government is sorta a mixed message, thar.