My older dog is an arthritic old girl who, in her youth, had the disturbing habit of killing any small animal or bird she could get her jaws on. She wasn't evil - dogs are not capable of evil, as I will outline below - she was just wired to hunt things. When she sleeps, she twitches her feet and whines, because in her dreams, she's a dire wolf hunting down elk on the steppes.
When she's awake, though, she's the most loyal, cheerful creature on the planet. When I walk into the house, she runs up with her tail wagging, saying hello to one the alphas of her pack, at least in her mind...When Enabler walks in, that look changes to "It's GOD!"
So you have two states of mind, here. One is a killer, but in the hunter sense of the word, and the other is a loyal, protective, and cheerful old girl who spends all her time with her head on the lap of her God. Neither of these is evil, in any sense of the word.
Particularly not in the real sense of the word. Evil is banal. Evil is the shitty compromise, the impersonal and faceless bureaucracy that mangles citizens out of nothing but a sense of inertia, the intelligence organization that fucks with millions of people just because they can, the very idea of walking past someone who is suffering, simply because you couldn't care less, the desire to see people pushed deeper into the shit than you are, etc.
Only humans can actually be Evil. Hell, even the fallen angels in the Christian mythos did what they did out of pride and anger...evil with a small e. Humans, on the other hand, do what they do because they can't be arsed to do or think anything different, and THAT is Evil with a capital E.
You've seen it. It's the little things. Cops who like to lean on people they stop, just a bit. Jackasses defending torture "to keep us safe". The desire by the masses to be ruled by a king (many Americans believe the president can fire congressmen, for example), in their essentially servile natures. Assholes who beat up their wives. The same wives standing by while asshole abuses the kids for good measure. The bitter campaigns to keep ugly truths under wraps. The constant need most people feel to define what rights people don't have1.
Dogs don't do any of this shit. Dogs just spend all their time loving their humans, even though they know we keep the best food for ourselves.
So get the hell off of my planet...But the dogs can stay.
Or Kill Me.
1 This is why Anarchy will never work. People WANT government, so they can force their beliefs on other people.
Fuck, Roger.
I miss my dog. :cry:
Awww. :)
It's true.
Yeah. My dog is the absolute shit. I feel the same way about my rat, but even more strongly. That little fucker would take on a bear for me, no doubt.
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 06:51:19 PM
Fuck, Roger.
I miss my dog. :cry:
So get another dog.
It is my belief that most humans can't fully be humans without having dogs around. Hell, they've been with us twice as long as we've had civilization (15,000 years, civilization developing a mere 7400 years ago.).
:mittens:
Very true. Sad, but true!
I cannot wait to move somewhere the kids and I can have a dog.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 06:51:19 PM
Fuck, Roger.
I miss my dog. :cry:
So get another dog.
It is my belief that most humans can't fully be humans without having dogs around. Hell, they've been with us twice as long as we've had civilization (15,000 years, civilization developing a mere 7400 years.).
I would, I'd take my OLD dog, she's at the house with the not-yet-ex-husband. However, I'm now in a third floor apartment... and I am not home so much these days. This is a good thing for me, right now, and the cats... well, the cats don't care if I'm home, as long as the food bowl is filled regularly and the catbox is kept in reasonable condition. While I have issues with the NYEX, he loves that dog, too. He's said I can borrow her whenever I like, but she's happy at the house. Uprooting her is unfair, particularly if I'm going to leave her alone most of the time...
But that doesn't mean I don't miss her.
Next free Saturday, though... I may take him up on the offer and take her out to play somewhere.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 06:51:19 PM
Fuck, Roger.
I miss my dog. :cry:
So get another dog.
It is my belief that most humans can't fully be humans without having dogs around. Hell, they've been with us twice as long as we've had civilization (15,000 years, civilization developing a mere 7400 years ago.).
She's moving into an apartment... probably not a good idea for someone whose life is in flux to get a dog.
But I agree with your statement about not fully being humans without dogs... I took mine to the beach yesterday, and the pleasure I experienced watching her flipping out, running up and down and leaping over logs, was really primal.
:mittens:
You also put your finger on some of my favorite issues, nature and reason.
The dog's got a good natural sense for what to do. She's hardwired to be that stone cold timber wolf killer, but around her family, her pack, she's locked in to the idea of following the training she's been given. She knows who she can be safe and affectionate with on the same set of instincts.
Humans have fooled ourselves into thinking our brains don't work this way. We've got the possibility to think outside of our vestigial and shriveled monkey heirarchy ideas, but we don't. Lots of the fuckers would rather sit, content to think that the elected alphas will sort everything out, or delude themselves that their opinion or vote doesn't matter, rather than go against that grain whan they think something is wrong. They'll hoot, holler, and bitch, but immediate hit the dirt in supplication when they're called on it.
We can recognize it, we've got the forebrains. Seems insulting as HELL to most to be compared to apes, but as a whole we're not acting much better. We can go agaisnt it, whether it's right to do so or not, but lots of folks will not sit up and grow the pair required to do so. Like you said, they can, but they don't, and it's sickening.
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 06:51:19 PM
Fuck, Roger.
I miss my dog. :cry:
So get another dog.
It is my belief that most humans can't fully be humans without having dogs around. Hell, they've been with us twice as long as we've had civilization (15,000 years, civilization developing a mere 7400 years ago.).
She's moving into an apartment... probably not a good idea for someone whose life is in flux to get a dog.
But I agree with your statement about not fully being humans without dogs... I took mine to the beach yesterday, and the pleasure I experienced watching her flipping out, running up and down and leaping over logs, was really primal.
Yep. And, lease says cats only. :sad:
I haven't really decided what I'm going to do once all this is over, or where I'll be. The apartment I've got is a little quirky, but good, but... I dunno, yet. Decisions pending resolution of current situations. We'll see. Once my life is stable again, I'll consider more pets. (I kept two cats because I couldn't leave them ALL behind, and the orange one was pining without me... and beating the fuck out of the other cats. The second cat was to keep him company when I'm not home.)
fuck.
good stuff, Roger!
I had to put my dog down a little over a year ago, and my wife has just gotten over it, so we got a new puppy.
it's a helluva thing becoming a god to a dog all over again...
i agree with your assessment that a person is more of a person when they care for a dog.
kiddos named her 'Corndog'. :lol:
:mittens:
Makes me wanna get another dog... but being a student the constant moving around wouldn't be fair.
Thinking about doing the rat thing. Had a friend with rats and they were really enjoyable creatures.
Rats are awesome pets. I prefer males because they tend to be more chill, more affectionate, and you can get away with keeping them solo. Females are more active and more fun to watch in a group, but they don't do well without a group. I've observed that in groups of 3 or 5 there will always be one or two that end up being bullied, so it's best to have them in even-numbered amounts.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 11, 2011, 07:56:47 PM
Rats are awesome pets. I prefer males because they tend to be more chill, more affectionate, and you can get away with keeping them solo. Females are more active and more fun to watch in a group, but they don't do well without a group. I've observed that in groups of 3 or 5 there will always be one or two that end up being bullied, so it's best to have them in even-numbered amounts.
This is truth. My cousin in Miramichi has a rat, and that rat's honestly one of the most loving pets I've ever seen. He'll eat anything and loves to crawl all over things.
Rats are really amazing pets. The only shitty thing about them is that they don't live long enough. :cry:
Definitely agree with the OP. I have three dogs and they are amazing creatures.
I've had many rats and they are nifty little things. One of my best pets ever was a rat. I'd disagree about the male/female thing though. I've always had girls (with one exception) and I didn't see much difference, other than the smell, between the one boy I had and other people's males. I've kept them alone and in groups of two to three and the loners never had any problems. Of course they had tons of human contact also.
Quote from: Wyldkat on April 12, 2011, 03:28:05 AM
Definitely agree with the OP. I have three dogs and they are amazing creatures.
I've had many rats and they are nifty little things. One of my best pets ever was a rat. I'd disagree about the male/female thing though. I've always had girls (with one exception) and I didn't see much difference, other than the smell, between the one boy I had and other people's males. I've kept them alone and in groups of two to three and the loners never had any problems. Of course they had tons of human contact also.
OK, but you're wrong. Or, at least, every single book or website I've ever read on the subject says you are. They could all be wrong, though.
My poodle is the best person I know. He's got every bit as much character as any human I've ever known, and like Roger's dog, he's heartbreakingly good natured. It's humbling.
Dog's are good people. They're better people than any ACTUAL so called "people" I can think of.
Proof that dogs are better people than people? Better than even, say, your spouse/lover?
If you were to say, lock your spouse in the boot of the car, and lock your dog in the boot of your car, and then let them out an hour later, who do you think will be happier to see you?
I would avoid female rats just because they have an amazing ability to get pregnant. :lulz:
Quote from: Lies on April 12, 2011, 05:36:00 AM
Dog's are good people. They're better people than any ACTUAL so called "people" I can think of.
Proof that dogs are better people than people? Better than even, say, your spouse/lover?
If you were to say, lock your spouse in the boot of the car, and lock your dog in the boot of your car, and then let them out an hour later, who do you think will be happier to see you?
Proof that dogs are better than people? They'd never talk about locking you in their trunk. ;)
I love my dogs. :) My little one's more like your older dawg, Roger - so good natured. He's also the funniest dog I have ever met.
Funniest thing is, this thread wasn't actually about dogs.
It was about the banality of evil.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 12, 2011, 02:42:15 PM
Funniest thing is, this thread wasn't actually about dogs.
It was about the banality of evil.
:lulz:
This shit happens. :)
Ah, Roger, you bring tear to Enrico's glass eye.
He will always remember his first albino doberman, Stinky, who rip off brother Pogo's face during Enrico's ninth birthday party... how could anyone ever top such a gift?
Quote from: Enrico Salazar on April 12, 2011, 03:04:51 PM
Ah, Roger, you bring tear to Enrico's glass eye.
He will always remember his first albino doberman, Stinky, who rip off brother Pogo's face during Enrico's ninth birthday party... how could anyone ever top such a gift?
Is give robot-doberman. Is know no pity.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 12, 2011, 03:05:53 PM
Quote from: Enrico Salazar on April 12, 2011, 03:04:51 PM
Ah, Roger, you bring tear to Enrico's glass eye.
He will always remember his first albino doberman, Stinky, who rip off brother Pogo's face during Enrico's ninth birthday party... how could anyone ever top such a gift?
Is give robot-doberman. Is know no pity.
Is true, we teach it to the children and we teach it to the dogs.
It's funny: the last dog I spent any time around was an AmStat--like Nigel's dog. Best fucking dog on the planet, IMO. Totally made me start thinking about taking on a canine companion sometime soon again.
If I ever do, I'll look for either an AmStat, Border Collie or Aussie Sheepdog.
Don't have a dog. Don't want one, in the city.
QuoteEvil is the shitty compromise, the impersonal and faceless bureaucracy that mangles citizens out of nothing but a sense of inertia, the intelligence organization that fucks with millions of people just because they can, the very idea of walking past someone who is suffering, simply because you couldn't care less, the desire to see people pushed deeper into the shit than you are, etc.
Only humans can actually be Evil. Hell, even the fallen angels in the Christian mythos did what they did out of pride and anger...evil with a small e. Humans, on the other hand, do what they do because they can't be arsed to do or think anything different, and THAT is Evil with a capital E.
You've seen it. It's the little things. Cops who like to lean on people they stop, just a bit. Jackasses defending torture "to keep us safe". The desire by the masses to be ruled by a king (many Americans believe the president can fire congressmen, for example), in their essentially servile natures. Assholes who beat up their wives. The same wives standing by while asshole abuses the kids for good measure. The bitter campaigns to keep ugly truths under wraps. The constant need most people feel to define what rights people don't have.
This is the bit I keep coming back to.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 12, 2011, 03:16:38 PM
Don't have a dog. Don't want one, in the city.
QuoteEvil is the shitty compromise, the impersonal and faceless bureaucracy that mangles citizens out of nothing but a sense of inertia, the intelligence organization that fucks with millions of people just because they can, the very idea of walking past someone who is suffering, simply because you couldn't care less, the desire to see people pushed deeper into the shit than you are, etc.
Only humans can actually be Evil. Hell, even the fallen angels in the Christian mythos did what they did out of pride and anger...evil with a small e. Humans, on the other hand, do what they do because they can't be arsed to do or think anything different, and THAT is Evil with a capital E.
You've seen it. It's the little things. Cops who like to lean on people they stop, just a bit. Jackasses defending torture "to keep us safe". The desire by the masses to be ruled by a king (many Americans believe the president can fire congressmen, for example), in their essentially servile natures. Assholes who beat up their wives. The same wives standing by while asshole abuses the kids for good measure. The bitter campaigns to keep ugly truths under wraps. The constant need most people feel to define what rights people don't have.
This is the bit I keep coming back to.
It's like behind the apparent stupidity of humans, there is actual stupidity. The kind of Evil that is not even self-interested.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on April 12, 2011, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 12, 2011, 03:16:38 PM
Don't have a dog. Don't want one, in the city.
QuoteEvil is the shitty compromise, the impersonal and faceless bureaucracy that mangles citizens out of nothing but a sense of inertia, the intelligence organization that fucks with millions of people just because they can, the very idea of walking past someone who is suffering, simply because you couldn't care less, the desire to see people pushed deeper into the shit than you are, etc.
Only humans can actually be Evil. Hell, even the fallen angels in the Christian mythos did what they did out of pride and anger...evil with a small e. Humans, on the other hand, do what they do because they can't be arsed to do or think anything different, and THAT is Evil with a capital E.
You've seen it. It's the little things. Cops who like to lean on people they stop, just a bit. Jackasses defending torture "to keep us safe". The desire by the masses to be ruled by a king (many Americans believe the president can fire congressmen, for example), in their essentially servile natures. Assholes who beat up their wives. The same wives standing by while asshole abuses the kids for good measure. The bitter campaigns to keep ugly truths under wraps. The constant need most people feel to define what rights people don't have.
This is the bit I keep coming back to.
It's like behind the apparent stupidity of humans, there is actual stupidity. The kind of Evil that is not even self-interested.
Yep. Just laziness.
That's why so much of the Evil you see is
boring.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 12, 2011, 05:08:35 AM
Quote from: Wyldkat on April 12, 2011, 03:28:05 AM
Definitely agree with the OP. I have three dogs and they are amazing creatures.
I've had many rats and they are nifty little things. One of my best pets ever was a rat. I'd disagree about the male/female thing though. I've always had girls (with one exception) and I didn't see much difference, other than the smell, between the one boy I had and other people's males. I've kept them alone and in groups of two to three and the loners never had any problems. Of course they had tons of human contact also.
OK, but you're wrong. Or, at least, every single book or website I've ever read on the subject says you are. They could all be wrong, though.
I've never read anything about male rats making better pets than female rats. I have read suggestions for choosing females over males for the smell. Most of the books I've read do suggest keeping more than one rat at a time (the only gender differentiation I remember reading was that males would be more likely to fight), but I was simply stating that in my personal experience it has never been an issue.
I also have many friends who raised rats for years who have noticed the same things I have as well as a friend who worked selling rats at a pet store for close to ten years I believe.
I'm guessing it totally depends on the individual rats and who you talk to/what you read since you've had the opposite experience.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 12, 2011, 05:36:46 AM
I would avoid female rats just because they have an amazing ability to get pregnant. :lulz:
I've never ended up with a pregnant rat because I never had both genders at once. I had no desire to breed them, adorable though they may be.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 12, 2011, 02:42:15 PM
Funniest thing is, this thread wasn't actually about dogs.
It was about the banality of evil.
:lulz:
I think the problem is that humans have the concept of good and evil, dogs (and other animals) don't. Humans go beyond the moment, the experience, and have an awareness of the concept of power. From there it just becomes a temptation to use it because you can, not because you should (your cop example). There is also the desire to uphold the status quo. Accountability helps, but in many cases not enough to prevent it. So much of it comes down the perception of power, or lack there of, and the fear of change.
Evil is banal. I don't think I was an adult until I understood that.
It's boring and easy, and can be hard to notice. Uniforms, Chain of Command, Authoritarian Rule, Suppression of Dissent, Boredom, Power Without Oversight, Mindlessly Taking the First Step, Diffused Responsibility, the Norm of Obedience, Compulsory Haircuts, Masks- Because when you're not who you are, and you're not responsible for what happens, and there'll be trouble if you don't do it, well.... Let's just say anything could happen. We all have good imaginations.
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 12, 2011, 05:38:22 PM
Evil is banal. I don't think I was an adult until I understood that.
It's boring and easy, and can be hard to notice. Uniforms, Chain of Command, Authoritarian Rule, Suppression of Dissent, Boredom, Power Without Oversight, Mindlessly Taking the First Step, Diffused Responsibility, the Norm of Obedience, Compulsory Haircuts, Masks- Because when you're not who you are, and you're not responsible for what happens, and there'll be trouble if you don't do it, well.... Let's just say anything could happen. We all have good imaginations.
Thread is now about rats. :lulz:
Sorry about that. I started with a point to add to your piece and ended up being unable to listen to Wyldkat flap her gums without responding.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 13, 2011, 05:10:25 AM
Sorry about that. I started with a point to add to your piece and ended up being unable to listen to Wyldkat flap her gums without responding.
Naw, it's cool. :lulz:
I am beginning to think of studying thread drift. Maybe I can squeeze a grant out of it.
You could call Drift (1), "When a pleasant and an unpleasant thing are brought up in the OP, people will naturally gravitate towards talking about the pleasant thing, even if it was only there to underscore the unpleasant thing."
Or "WAPPAUTABUITOPPWNGTTATPTEIIWOTTUTUT" for short.
Evil's not boring when you're the target, Sig, though I know what you're saying. When you can't get out from a constant barrage of everyday evil, it's an insidious sickness that creeps in and around that part you think you might call a soul one day if it wasn't always stuck on the bottom of your shoe.
Not what I meant; Having evil done to you isn't boring, whatever else it may be, but all evil has boring causes.
It's never grandiose, well-funded misanthropy. It's never the fact that a person has sold their soul to a god of bloodshed. It's never the kind of evil you can really feel great about fighting against. It's just lazy, stupid, or greedy people.
Oh no, that fanstastical kind of evil is still around. I think you just haven't had to witness it firsthand yet.
It would be a pleasing change of pace.
I wasn't being funny, but if laughing gets you by...
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 13, 2011, 04:37:58 PM
I wasn't being funny, but if laughing gets you by...
NO, but your remark is funny. You truly think that outright evil you have no choice but to be victimized by would be a better change of pace?
The essential element, EVIL, is to be hated, feared and not looked forward to, no matter where it comes from or what manifestation it takes on. I do find it comical that you suppose it'd be "welcome" or "pleasing" to experience it. Especially firsthand.
Though personally, I think I sometimes find watching others near to me experience it is almost more of a special kind of torture because I hate feeling helpless. At least when it happened to me, I could get a handle on my own experiences...eventually, anyway.