http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/19/markets/gold_1500_record/?section=money_latest
QuoteNEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Gold prices topped a record $1,500 for the first time ever on Tuesday, shattering an important psychological barrier.
Gold futures for June delivery hit an intraday record of $1,500.50 an ounce near midday, moving above Monday's record settle price of $1,492.90.
The price spike comes amid a wave of market uncertainty that has sent investors looking for an alternative to the weak U.S. dollar. And gold has been the marquee beneficiary.
On Monday, it was a dour outlook on U.S. debt that sent gold prices higher.
Standard & Poor's lowered its outlook for America's long-term debt to "negative" from "stable," based on uncertainty surrounding the nation's fiscal problems.
That's exactly the type of news that creates a flight to safe haven assets like gold.
The price of gold has tracked steadily higher in recent months, as a cavalcade of unsettling world events created uncertainty in global markets.
Since the start of the year, investors have been forced to consider the implications of a Japanese tsunami, earthquake and nuclear disaster. That's in addition to a spike in crude prices and a slew of revolts in the Middle East and North Africa.
Inflation -- which gold is often used to hedge against -- has been rising sharply in emerging economies and is becoming more of an issue in Europe.
Gold and silver keep shining. Thanks, S&P!
Carlos Sanchez, director of commodities management at New York-based CPM Group, said prices could go as high as $1,550 in the next couple weeks as investors focus on political gridlock in Washington.
The next major event for the gold market is the May deadline for the government to raise the debt ceiling, Sanchez said.
On Tuesday, silver prices were also on the rise. The understudy commodity was trading above $43 an ounce -- its highest level in three decades.
Of course, the records this week are not adjusted for inflation. Gold rose to $825.50 per ounce on Jan. 21, 1980, which is $2,211.65 in today's dollars, according to the Minneapolis Fed Calculator.
that's a 31.5% gain from this time last year.
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
so I'll do it for him, so he can be here in spirit.
:lulz: gold bugs
that's a hell of a jump though.
[EDIT] that's all inflation too, BTW.. the same reason we're paying what we're paying for gas right now.
CNN usually gets it wrong on purpose, saying that gas prices drove rising inflation, when the reality is that inflation drives the gas prices. Financial reporting banks on no one of any consequence being worried about the distinction, but it's actually a pretty significant difference in meaning, because then the public will blame oil companies, instead of the people responsible.
When the Gold bubble crashes its going to be biblical.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on April 19, 2011, 07:16:51 PM
When the Gold bubble crashes its going to be biblical.
at this point it would take another full crash of the economy. If oil's tracking where it was before the last big crash, and gold is actually tracking higher, that should be real fucking scary to anyone watching.
The Fed has given no indications at all that they'll raise interest rates to fight inflation. You'll continue to see gold, oil, silver, etc. rise until then.
silver is up even more.
the gold/silver ratio is down to 34, which it hasn't seen in a quarter century.
i'm thinking of trading in Ag for Au about now...
that way i can play the GSR and increase ounces without ever actually selling for FRNs.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 01:35:18 AM
silver is up even more.
the gold/silver ratio is down to 34, which it hasn't seen in a quarter century.
i'm thinking of trading in Ag for Au about now...
that way i can play the GSR and increase ounces without ever actually selling for FRNs.
I like the way you think. China's inflation rate is likely helping to drive silver, considering their reserves, even as their central bank is raising interest rates to levels they've never seen to combat runaway inflation.
We'll see the price increases here on our end at some point, but it does make me wonder how one of the strongest production market in the world can post double digit growth while the strongest (historically) consuming market is still stagnant where employment is concerned.
IME we're seeing monetization of the debt (read: socialization of the loss) seeking out commodities. too much money chasing after too few goods. Wages aren't rising either (at least not at any level that makes a difference)
I'm expecting to see 70's level stagflation.. we're not any where near through this yet, we're going to reap this for awhile.
I'm considering dumping all of my paper, even after it's mostly recovered since 08, and staying strictly in metals. Working in them, especially copper, I'm seeing prices at levels never seen on this planet. I'll keep a close watch on the Fed, but I really don't see them doing anything for the next year and a half unless it all dumps overnight.
A long time family jeweler friend of mine has decided to start brokering gold. I think it's a good idea in the short term, but like Glittersnatch mentioned, it's ultimately a bubble that will correct. I'm not so sure it's going to correct as badly as he thinks though. It will normalize relative to the amount of dollars in the system.
I really wish those fuckers still published the M3
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 01:35:18 AM
silver is up even more.
the gold/silver ratio is down to 34, which it hasn't seen in a quarter century.
i'm thinking of trading in Ag for Au about now...
that way i can play the GSR and increase ounces without ever actually selling for FRNs.
wat?
Quote from: Jerry_Frankster on April 20, 2011, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 01:35:18 AM
silver is up even more.
the gold/silver ratio is down to 34, which it hasn't seen in a quarter century.
i'm thinking of trading in Ag for Au about now...
that way i can play the GSR and increase ounces without ever actually selling for FRNs.
wat?
seekingalpha.com would probably be a good place to start. look up gold silver ratio and go from there.
Quote from: Jerry_Frankster on April 20, 2011, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 01:35:18 AM
silver is up even more.
the gold/silver ratio is down to 34, which it hasn't seen in a quarter century.
i'm thinking of trading in Ag for Au about now...
that way i can play the GSR and increase ounces without ever actually selling for FRNs.
wat?
the price of gold is 1501.10; silver is 44.69... so the ratio is 33.59
it takes 33.59 ounces of silver to buy one ounce of gold, at the moment.
that number bounces around, of course. a couple years ago, it was 80 something.
right now it's really low, indicating that silver has gone up much faster relative to gold. so if you have a good stack of silver, now might be a good time to convert it to gold.
If you buy as an investment, maybe you want to sell for federal reserve notes. but if you have Au/Ag as an insurance for carrying some stored value through the zombie apocalypse, then you might be hesitant to sell, so playing the ratio is a good way to take advantage of the price fluctuations without actually ever being out of the metals.
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
as far as zombie apocalypes insurance, that's a bit more nuanced.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold?
Farmland is a better investment.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
Glenn Beck's babbling. He takes money from one of the ripoff "buy gold" companies, and pushes investing in gold... Call 'em up and you're not investing in gold, you're investing in gold COINS.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/
Quote from: Nigel on April 20, 2011, 02:58:10 PM
Farmland is a better investment.
That's what I tend to think, as well.
Quote from: Luna on April 20, 2011, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
Glenn Beck's babbling. He takes money from one of the ripoff "buy gold" companies, and pushes investing in gold... Call 'em up and you're not investing in gold, you're investing in gold COINS.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/
Of course. :lol:
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold?
zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies. of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies. or get you into a vault.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:02:32 PM
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Yeah, that makes sense. Stupid people being duped by stupid things.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold?
zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies. of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies. or get you into a vault.
Fair point, but that assumes that there are vaults/uninfected places to begin with. I foresee that being a relatively short term solution. It also assumes that people universally accept gold as innately valuable.
Phox,
Does not, and especially wouldn't in the event of zombies.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:02:32 PM
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Yeah, that makes sense. Stupid people being duped by stupid things.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold?
zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies. of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies. or get you into a vault.
Fair point, but that assumes that there are vaults/uninfected places to begin with. I foresee that being a relatively short term solution. It also assumes that people universally accept gold as innately valuable.
Phox,
Does not, and especially wouldn't in the event of zombies.
even though it's fallen out of use as commonly accepted currency, it still retains values necessary for a good medium of exchange: portable, easily weighted and divided, able to be easily marked with a given value, and difficult to counterfeit.
all reasons to assume it would go back to being a currency useful for exchanging goods and services.
if there is some sort of catastrophe, i expect the immediate currency will be canned/dry food, and ammunition. however there is only so much of that you can buy before you need to have a more robust slab on your house.
after you reach that point, gold seems like a good option. and it should be used after the zombies are dead and people are trying to return to normal.
and Phox.... you would view gold as a good medium of exchange if the crazy hillbilly in town with a ton of long storage food and ammunition says that's the only thing he'll take. (apart from your general horse trading...)
> the same reason we're paying what we're paying for gas right now.
It must be real tough, that. (http://google.com/search?q=1.70+euro+per+liter+in+dollar+per+gallon)
your bicycle gets pretty good mpg, though, Trip.
I guess the problem I have with gold as some kind of "default" currency is that it's really not much good for anything. Recently they've found some uses for it in electronics, sure, but other than that there's not much going for gold other than it being shiny and relatively rare. You can't eat it; you can't build shelter with it; it's too soft to be any good for making tools or machines. Gold only has value in our current civilization because people have arbitrarily decided it has value and they apparently have the resources to waste chasing after it. See how long that lasts if their comfortable middle class lifestyles are interrupted and food and water start coming at a premium.
If the zombie apocalypse happens and I'm sitting on a bunch of food and water and someone offers me gold in exchange for my stuff, I'm saying fuck it, gold's just as worthless as paper money; come back when you have something useful to trade me. Likewise, if someone else in this theoretical post-apocalyptic world will trade me hard-to-find food and water for my useless shiny rocks, that person's a goddamn sucker.
I think if there is a zombie apocolypse, currency is going to be the least of anyone's concerns. If it had to be a metal, I would say lead...
Fuck Gold.
Tungsten is where it's at fools!
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
even though it's fallen out of use as commonly accepted currency, it still retains values necessary for a good medium of exchange: portable, easily weighted and divided, able to be easily marked with a given value, and difficult to counterfeit.
all reasons to assume it would go back to being a currency useful for exchanging goods and services.
All of those criteria are just as applicable to grain, animal hides, glass beads, and maple leaves. What makes gold so special? I personally do not find it very aesthetically pleasing, so unless everyone else is trading in gold, I have no reason to do so.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:27:44 PM
if there is some sort of catastrophe, i expect the immediate currency will be canned/dry food, and ammunition. however there is only so much of that you can buy before you need to have a more robust slab on your house.
after you reach that point, gold seems like a good option. and it should be used after the zombies are dead and people are trying to return to normal.
and Phox.... you would view gold as a good medium of exchange if the crazy hillbilly in town with a ton of long storage food and ammunition says that's the only thing he'll take. (apart from your general horse trading...)
You're assuming that the zombies will all die and people will want to return to normal. If that's the case, I'd be going a-plunderin'.
Phox,
Is that crazy hillbilly. Does not accept gold.
Quote from: Laughin Jude on April 20, 2011, 05:03:35 PM
If the zombie apocalypse happens and I'm sitting on a bunch of food and water and someone offers me gold in exchange for my stuff, I'm saying fuck it, gold's just as worthless as paper money; come back when you have something useful to trade me. Likewise, if someone else in this theoretical post-apocalyptic world will trade me hard-to-find food and water for my useless shiny rocks, that person's a goddamn sucker.
This.
Quote from: Khara on April 20, 2011, 07:56:27 PM
I think if there is a zombie apocolypse, currency is going to be the least of anyone's concerns. If it had to be a metal, I would say lead...
Also this.
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value. Zombie apocalypse aside, that would still be useful given a sufficiently large enough trading population.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Fools? Not necessarily. Con artists? Absolutely.
As far as I can tell, a lot of people are just hard-wired to think that gold = valuable even though it's effectively worthless from a practical viewpoint. The supposed value of gold represents a hell of a bit of mental programming, and I have to wonder if it's more nature (Ooo, ape like pretty rocks) or nurture (Gold is valuable because we've said so for thousands of years). Either way, it seems the bankers are happy to take advantage of our love of shiny things to bilk people out of their labor and goods. Even if the current gold-based system is completely retarded, the bankers are making a killing off of it and likely expect to continue doing so for the foreseeable future, so there's no reason for them
not to continue propping up gold, even if they know better: "no one else is being a rational actor, so why should I?"
Quotewhat do you mean by artificial value?
and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value. Zombie apocalypse aside, that would still be useful given a sufficiently large enough trading population.
To step in with my two cents on this: gold has almost no independent (as opposed to "artificial") value. It's arguably useful as a stand-in for other goods to simplify exchanges... but then, the same exact thing can be said of fiat money, and you run into the same problem with gold that you do with fiat money: it's only "worth" something because the powers that be say it's worth something, and unlike the goods and labor it represents, you can't actually do anything with it.
This is my fundamental problem with seeing gold as somehow "superior" to paper money: there's really no reason for anyone to accept either as currency except a standing social agreement to do so. That's damn convenient, granted, but the problem comes when goldbugs start acting like gold would have meaningful value if civilization fell apart. It wouldn't, at least not for the average person trying to get by. Food, water, textiles, energy, medicine--that's where the value's going to be if the world goes to hell. Gold, like any other currency, only has value so long as you're working within an economic system that agrees it has value; gold represents an abstraction of value, rather than having value itself, whereas consumable, life-preserving goods retain their values regardless of whatever economic system you're operating in because people need them to survive.
Of course, to all of that you have to apply the caveat that some people are just dumb and would gladly hand you the last of their food and water if you offered them a palmful of gold without thinking it through. People aren't necessarily rational actors, after all.
QuoteI think if there is a zombie apocolypse, currency is going to be the least of anyone's concerns. If it had to be a metal, I would say lead...
Has there ever been a short story where some alchemist living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland is trying to transmute gold into lead so he can make more ammunition? Sounds like a fun one to write.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 03:02:32 PM
what Luna said...
they are primarily ripoff companies with ripoff marketing catering to unfounded fear/greed.
Yeah, that makes sense. Stupid people being duped by stupid things.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
You know, I never quite understood the "invest in metals" ideology. Can someone explain the rational behind it?
well, as far as 'investing', it seems pretty simple. if you believe they are going to go up in price for one reason or another, you dump money in to seek roi. actually, i'm not sure what the confusion is... why would it seem any different than investing in wheat futures, or anything else?
That's what I mean. Investing in gold and silver doesn't seem like it's any different than investing in... anything else. Yet, I know quite a number of people who strongly advocate that investing in gold and silver is the most important thing you can do with your money (my ex-fiancée's grandparents, for example). So, I'm wondering... what makes it more important?
As for the zombie apocalypse, I think you're better off investing in a decent sized patch of land away from civilization with a few engineering projects to make it self-sufficient and defensible, personally, but.... hey, maybe the zombies will be allergic to gold?
zombie apocalypse types assume (not unreasonably) that it'll return to being a useful medium of exchange and will have value after a collapse of paper currencies. of course, you can't eat gold, but gold would probably be the only thing that would buy you a plane ticket to somewhere not yet infected by zombies. or get you into a vault.
Fair point, but that assumes that there are vaults/uninfected places to begin with. I foresee that being a relatively short term solution. It also assumes that people universally accept gold as innately valuable.
Phox,
Does not, and especially wouldn't in the event of zombies.
even though it's fallen out of use as commonly accepted currency, it still retains values necessary for a good medium of exchange: portable, easily weighted and divided, able to be easily marked with a given value, and difficult to counterfeit.
all reasons to assume it would go back to being a currency useful for exchanging goods and services.
Personally I think a better bet for post apocalyptic currency is bullets. They're portable, fairly light weight, and actually useful.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Durability is also one of the reasons Gold makes such an ideal currency.
I think it is a great hedge against a slow decline of civilization, while still being a crappy one against an actual collapse of civilization.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 20, 2011, 10:47:05 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Durability is also one of the reasons Gold makes such an ideal currency.
I think it is a great hedge against a slow decline of civilization, while still being a crappy one against an actual collapse of civilization.
yeah, the apocalypse types are pretty fuckin daft IMO, but it's still a decent hedge when a recession comes around every 30 or so years. Property will always be the best long term investment though.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Yes. I agree with you. Why are you trying to argue with me? :?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 21, 2011, 12:46:59 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Yes. I agree with you. Why are you trying to argue with me? :?
Im really not phoxy lady. I posted right as I was leaving work and even thought, on the ride home, that I should edit to add that i didn't mean to presume that you didn't already understand all of this, and apologize if I sounded patronizing, and then I sat in traffic for an hour and promptly forgot once I got in the door.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 21, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 21, 2011, 12:46:59 AM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on April 20, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 20, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 20, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
I could argue those points, but the 'you can't eat gold' idea seems to be pretty strong in a lot of people. To each their own. The demand is increasing despite the nay sayers.
So, why do you think central banks are buying the stuff at increasing rates? Are they fools?
Artificial value =/= valuable in zombieland.
what do you mean by artificial value?
]and currencies were created to fix the problem in bartering of two things being exchanged having a different real value.
That is precisely what I mean. The value placed on gold, silver, jewels, and paper currency is artificial/cultural. It's not intrinsic to the item, it's based on an assigned value
it's value of anything is assigned by the person who owns it, and value is set by how much another person is willing to work or trade for it. I may have something you want and are willing to say: trade me by doing work equivalent to what we agree upon is a fair amount of work in exchange. Lets say I don't need any work done, but know a guy who does need about the same amount of work you're offering me in exchange for my product, who also happens to have something of similar value that I want, it's simply a matter of giving you the thing you want if you agree to work for this other guy in exchange for what I want from him. Your work has just been used as a currency, and we both agreed on what it was worth based on how much you were willing to do.
In other words, the value of EVERYTHING is artificially set by the people exchanging it. Metals were used because of their scarcity, or difficulty in obtaining easily, thus allowing them to retain a given value. If you pick a currency that is easy to obtain, it will quickly loose value as everyone will be able to have it without expending any effort, or work.
something like this was in part of The Hitchhikers Guide, when the ship carrying the people that would eventually populate the earth crash landed and began using tree leaves as currency. Naturally, inflation and devaluation was out of control.
Yes. I agree with you. Why are you trying to argue with me? :?
Im really not phoxy lady. I posted right as I was leaving work and even thought, on the ride home, that I should edit to add that i didn't mean to presume that you didn't already understand all of this, and apologize if I sounded patronizing, and then I sat in traffic for an hour and promptly forgot once I got in the door.
Is all good. :)
Gold is only useful in an economic collapse for Austrian "economists" to masturbate over.
Quote from: - on April 22, 2011, 11:22:22 PM
Gold is only useful in an economic collapse for Austrian "economists" to masturbate over.
i was supposed to wait for the collapse before i do that?! :eek:
Point. Strictly speaking, the only time Austrian economists dont masturbate over gold is when they are asleep, or trying to acquire viagra.
Of course, they dream about gold and wake up sticky.
I thought Austrians were into crystals and shit.
Quote from: Jerry_Frankster on April 23, 2011, 03:17:33 AM
I thought Austrians were into crystals and shit.
No, youre thinking of New Age scatophiles.
One time my shitcrystals built up so bad that I had to go to the doctor. Man I went through a lot of Vasoline that month.
I look forward to the day when these people will realize that, aside from being rare and looking pretty, gold is largely useless. It's too soft to be durable, too rare to be economical, and has comparable conductive properties to much more common metals.
If people were smart, they'd be investing in copper.
Gold is highly conductive and really useful... in a phase of electronic circuit technology which is pretty close to becoming obsolete.
OH and it makes great fillings!
Kai, i would imagine that there have been people that have shared your sentiment for thousands of years...
Quote from: Iptuous on April 23, 2011, 06:16:52 PM
Kai, i would imagine that there have been people that have shared your sentiment for thousands of years...
The problem is that, evolutionarily, the scarcest resources have been the most valuable. So humans are wired to equate scarce with valuable, and apply it to all sorts of things, like gold, African diamonds (not the synthetic ones, because we can MAKE them), and other relatively rare metals and compounds. Plants and animals, too. Collection of rare materials and items has been a mainstay of visible power, and it often has nothing to do with aesthetics.
Coltan and lithium would be better investments. So would scrap iron. So would taking enough LSD to believe scavanged shoelaces and mud are in fact gourmet spaghetti bolognese.
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on April 23, 2011, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 23, 2011, 06:16:52 PM
Kai, i would imagine that there have been people that have shared your sentiment for thousands of years...
The problem is that, evolutionarily, the scarcest resources have been the most valuable. So humans are wired to equate scarce with valuable, and apply it to all sorts of things, like gold, African diamonds (not the synthetic ones, because we can MAKE them), and other relatively rare metals and compounds. Plants and animals, too. Collection of rare materials and items has been a mainstay of visible power, and it often has nothing to do with aesthetics.
What I think you meant, after thinking about this for a bit, is that the appeal of rare items doesn't have much to do with their
intrinsic aesthetic value, like Phox said. Gold isn't prized because there's something inherently magical about yellowish shiny metal, it's that this particular shiny metal is scarce—I get your point there, I think. But, it's worth adding that we're also likely wired to choose mates based on aesthetics, and not
only in terms of appraising one's health. Since displaying scarce objects is a cue about our social status, among other things, aesthetics are pretty thoroughly entangled with this "hoarding unusual shit" drive, though for extrinsic purposes.
edit: grammar
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
I don't really have to. The jokes write themselves...If international currencies collapse, gold will just be a useless heavy lump that takes up valuable space that could be better used for ammunition, Cipro, and the vast quantities of amphetamines you will need to survive day to day.
Gold is about as realistic as those big fucking rocks with the holes bored in them that were once used in the South Pacific.
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on April 23, 2011, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on April 23, 2011, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 23, 2011, 06:16:52 PM
Kai, i would imagine that there have been people that have shared your sentiment for thousands of years...
The problem is that, evolutionarily, the scarcest resources have been the most valuable. So humans are wired to equate scarce with valuable, and apply it to all sorts of things, like gold, African diamonds (not the synthetic ones, because we can MAKE them), and other relatively rare metals and compounds. Plants and animals, too. Collection of rare materials and items has been a mainstay of visible power, and it often has nothing to do with aesthetics.
What I think you meant, after thinking about this for a bit, is that the appeal of rare items doesn't have much to do with their intrinsic aesthetic value, like Phox said. Gold isn't prized because there's something inherently magical about yellowish shiny metal, it's that this particular shiny metal is scarce—I get your point there, I think. But, it's worth adding that we're also likely wired to choose mates based on aesthetics, and not only in terms of appraising one's health. Since displaying scarce objects is a cue about our social status, among other things, aesthetics are pretty thoroughly entangled with this "hoarding unusual shit" drive, though for extrinsic purposes.
edit: grammar
Yes.
A prime example is the purchase of African diamonds over synthetic diamonds or cubic zirconium. These are all essentially the same in terms of shininess, refractive properties, even similar levels of hardness. Yet people still purchase the African diamonds precisely because they are scarce and expensive and therefore a sign of high status, even if jewelers have to use microscopes to tell the difference. Diamond is of course very useful in comparison to gold but African diamonds aren't purchased for industrial use either.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 24, 2011, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
I don't really have to. The jokes write themselves...If international currencies collapse, gold will just be a useless heavy lump that takes up valuable space that could be better used for ammunition, Cipro, and the vast quantities of amphetamines you will need to survive day to day.
Gold is about as realistic as those big fucking rocks with the holes bored in them that were once used in the South Pacific.
Which rocks were these? :?
Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on April 24, 2011, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 24, 2011, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
I don't really have to. The jokes write themselves...If international currencies collapse, gold will just be a useless heavy lump that takes up valuable space that could be better used for ammunition, Cipro, and the vast quantities of amphetamines you will need to survive day to day.
Gold is about as realistic as those big fucking rocks with the holes bored in them that were once used in the South Pacific.
Which rocks were these? :?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones)
Oh. You learn something new every day :)
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on April 23, 2011, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on April 23, 2011, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 23, 2011, 06:16:52 PM
Kai, i would imagine that there have been people that have shared your sentiment for thousands of years...
The problem is that, evolutionarily, the scarcest resources have been the most valuable. So humans are wired to equate scarce with valuable, and apply it to all sorts of things, like gold, African diamonds (not the synthetic ones, because we can MAKE them), and other relatively rare metals and compounds. Plants and animals, too. Collection of rare materials and items has been a mainstay of visible power, and it often has nothing to do with aesthetics.
What I think you meant, after thinking about this for a bit, is that the appeal of rare items doesn't have much to do with their intrinsic aesthetic value, like Phox said. Gold isn't prized because there's something inherently magical about yellowish shiny metal, it's that this particular shiny metal is scarce—I get your point there, I think. But, it's worth adding that we're also likely wired to choose mates based on aesthetics, and not only in terms of appraising one's health. Since displaying scarce objects is a cue about our social status, among other things, aesthetics are pretty thoroughly entangled with this "hoarding unusual shit" drive, though for extrinsic purposes.
edit: grammar
Copper was once more prized than gold in North America, because it was harder to find.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 24, 2011, 07:35:57 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on April 24, 2011, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 24, 2011, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
I don't really have to. The jokes write themselves...If international currencies collapse, gold will just be a useless heavy lump that takes up valuable space that could be better used for ammunition, Cipro, and the vast quantities of amphetamines you will need to survive day to day.
Gold is about as realistic as those big fucking rocks with the holes bored in them that were once used in the South Pacific.
Which rocks were these? :?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones)
Yup... that's just as retarded. :lulz:
in the 1855 paris exposition a bar of aluminium was displayed next to the crown jewels. before it was discovered how to cost effectively extract it, it was worth more than gold.
In thinking about the antipathy displayed here towards gold, i think it may have to do with the circular nature of a medium of exchange's logic.
Gold is valuable solely because people want it, and people want it, solely because it is valuable. this is all that is necessary for a medium of exchange. of course, it has some other properties that also make it a good medium, but the bootstrapped agreement among people that it is valuable is entirely sufficient, and the fact that it has remained this way for so long just cements the deal.
But in a group that prides itself on rationality, this circular logic is odious. i can get that. but it doesn't change a thing... my little treasure chest will always be a liquidable asset. As my used car salesman uncle used to say, "there's a butt for every seat", but right now i enjoy having mine parked in it. :)
a note on the money from the island of Yap.... (which were not used as a day to day medium of exchange).
since they were not portable, they stayed where they were despite who the current 'owner' was. they'd be sitting there on the side of the road and everyone would know it belongs to villiage X. when someone was married off, or someone was unjustly killed, etc. and one villiage had to pay off another, they would give ownership of the stone, and everyone just knew that possession was passed along, even though the stone remained where it was.
The most interesting example is a stone that was being transported from the island where it was quarried to the island they inhabited, and it sunk in the ocean off the shore. you couldn't even see it. but the elders of the villages got together, and decided that it was a good stone, was constructed properly and passed QA, so it was completely viable, despite the fact that it lay at the bottom of the ocean, where they couldn't see it. so it entered into the economy and served perfectly well for its purposes.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 24, 2011, 04:36:54 PM
In thinking about the antipathy displayed here towards gold, i think it may have to do with the circular nature of a medium of exchange's logic.
I have no antipathy towards gold. It makes fine jewelry. My antipathy is towards people who not only believe it has magical powers that will work where other currencies fail, but who also insist on evangelizing about it.
Quote from: Nigel on April 24, 2011, 03:56:14 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 24, 2011, 07:35:57 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on April 24, 2011, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 24, 2011, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on April 19, 2011, 07:13:26 PM
and Roger's not here to go " :lulz: gold bugs"
I don't really have to. The jokes write themselves...If international currencies collapse, gold will just be a useless heavy lump that takes up valuable space that could be better used for ammunition, Cipro, and the vast quantities of amphetamines you will need to survive day to day.
Gold is about as realistic as those big fucking rocks with the holes bored in them that were once used in the South Pacific.
Which rocks were these? :?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones)
Yup... that's just as retarded. :lulz:
I liked how one of them fell out of the boat and sunk to the bottom of the pacific, but because they knew it was still there they still traded it.
ETA Ippy already said this, but it's still cool.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 24, 2011, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 24, 2011, 04:36:54 PM
In thinking about the antipathy displayed here towards gold, i think it may have to do with the circular nature of a medium of exchange's logic.
I have no antipathy towards gold. It makes fine jewelry. My antipathy is towards people who not only believe it has magical powers that will work where other currencies fail, but who also insist on evangelizing about it.
This.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 24, 2011, 04:36:54 PM
Gold is valuable solely because people want it, and people want it, solely because it is valuable.
No, people want ti because they are
told that it is valuable. Aside as metals go, it's too soft to make good tools, and as has been said, even its use in electronics is not so unique as to make it worth $1500/oz.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 24, 2011, 04:36:54 PM
but the bootstrapped agreement among people that it is valuable is entirely sufficient, and the fact that it has remained this way for so long just cements the deal.
Only so long as the economic principles that we are currently subject to remain intact.
I'd just like to add that it makes fine jewelery only as alloys. Pure gold is virtually useless.
I hope the gold fairy shits in your fridge.
To all the people complaining that gold isn't intrinsically useful - that's actually a desirable trait in a currency. Since gold isn't needed in very many practical applications, you can stockpile it, keep it in banks, and speculate on it without messing up other people too much. Imagine if we really used canned food as a currency/trade good...
Gold hits $1500 / oz. -> what is the big deal about gold? You can't even eat it!
Beans hit $1500 / 8 oz can -> OMFG WE ALL STARVE GG WORLD COLLAPSE
But again, that only makes gold useful in a civilization where 1) everyone has agreed that gold is "valuable" even though it's really kind of worthless otherwise and 2) there's consistent availability of food, clothing, etc. Take away #1 and gold is just a shiny rock again. Take away #2 and food, clothing, water, etc.--the stuff you actually need to stay alive--is suddenly way more valuable than any rock you might trade it for.
I think everyone gets that gold might be useful in an imaginary placeholder kind of way, just like any other limited-resource-based currency. I don't think anyone's saying otherwise, though we can argue over the details and whether or not there's a better way to go about it than using gold specifically. What's ridiculous is the gold bugs' claims that gold would somehow retain its value in the absence of our current economy. If you think the country is headed toward a civil war/post-apocalypse wasteland scenario (which is the assumption if you're watching shows like Glenn Beck and thus the target audience for the gold-hawking commercials), gold is one of the stupidest investments you could make.
i predict that gold will become completely useless as currency in Tucson when currency fails. The main currency will be bullets, second will be potable water, then food, and then hippy rocks. Gold isn't even used by hippies!
Platinum is superior in electronics to copper,silver, and gold. If I remember my basic AC-DC circuits class. Fresh water > Gold. Also gold looks tacky to me.