http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=daNr_TrBw6E
I swear it is getting more difficult to separate bullshit from partial truth or even real truth even more.
He retired in 1984 and is interested in parapsychology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stubblebine
Yeah, I recall hearing about the "wingless impact" theorists. What they assume is a nose on-point collision. I don't see why they haven't considered how it would look if the plane hit the ground just in front of the pentagon. I doubt the wings would have made a mark then.
From what I've heard, aiming a plane like that is difficult.
QuoteA proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. military project to create "a breed of 'super soldier'" who would "have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls". Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.[3] He features prominently in Jon Ronson's book Men Who Stare at Goats.,[6][7]
:lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:45:31 PM
He retired in 1984 and is interested in parapsychology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stubblebine
Thank you. I hate people.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:46:48 PM
QuoteA proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. military project to create "a breed of 'super soldier'" who would "have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls". Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.[3] He features prominently in Jon Ronson's book Men Who Stare at Goats.,[6][7]
:lulz:
I want a fucking video of him trying to walk through a wall!
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 10, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:46:48 PM
QuoteA proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. military project to create "a breed of 'super soldier'" who would "have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls". Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.[3] He features prominently in Jon Ronson's book Men Who Stare at Goats.,[6][7]
:lulz:
I want a fucking video of him trying to walk through a wall!
Sorry, that footage is classified, lol
I understand he's a crackpot, but this idea didn't come from him. I recall it was that one 9/11 conspiracy video that got a lot of circulation. Was it Zeitgeist? I forget.
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 10, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
I understand he's a crackpot, but this idea didn't come from him. I recall it was that one 9/11 conspiracy video that got a lot of circulation. Was it Zeitgeist? I forget.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this particular clip tries to add legitimacy to the conspiracy theory by having Stubblebine on it, but fails to mention that he retired almost 30 years ago, and before that, tried to walk through walls.
He's just a silly old fart who gets his kicks by believing the weirdest things possible. Not remarkable.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:52:54 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 10, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
I understand he's a crackpot, but this idea didn't come from him. I recall it was that one 9/11 conspiracy video that got a lot of circulation. Was it Zeitgeist? I forget.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this particular clip tries to add legitimacy to the conspiracy theory by having Stubblebine on it, but fails to mention that he retired almost 30 years ago, and before that, tried to walk through walls.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
QuoteA proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. military project to create "a breed of 'super soldier'" who would "have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls". Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.[3] He features prominently in Jon Ronson's book Men Who Stare at Goats.,[6][7]
I knew that name was familiar. I just read TMWSAG last month.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:46:48 PM
QuoteA proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. military project to create "a breed of 'super soldier'" who would "have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls". Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.[3] He features prominently in Jon Ronson's book Men Who Stare at Goats.,[6][7]
:lulz:
THAT'S why the name sounded familiar. :lulz:
There seems to be alleged footage in the vid of the plane hitting nose-on, though.
You know, it is amazing how many ex-military intelligence and spook people end up parroting lunatic conspiracy theories. David Shayler comes to mind.
Its almost as if they're acting on orders to propagate them...
That's a computer animation that someone made up. There was no released footage of the incident.
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 10, 2011, 07:41:32 PM
That's a computer animation that someone made up. There was no released footage of the incident.
Figures.
When we're all dead they'll release some FOIA crap with black marker all over it. Kind of like the Kennedy stuff that's suposed to come out, that's not going to tell us anything.
One of my favorite conspiracies theory about 9/11 is that some double-agent in the military turned our own missile defense systems against us and used them to launch a strike on the Pentagon, meaning a plane never crashed in DC, and that's why all the videos of the attack on the Pentagon were confiscated and are yet to see the light of day.
Not saying I buy into it any more than I'd necessarily discount it, but it's a fun idea to play with.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Slyph/db_Pentagon_Debris_101.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Slyph/db_Pentagon_Debris_91.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
You know, it is amazing how many ex-military intelligence and spook people end up parroting lunatic conspiracy theories. David Shayler comes to mind.
Its almost as if they're acting on orders to propagate them...
Hm.
The alternative would be that they propagate them because they really know something, but
each and every one of them turned koo-koo in the head so unfortunately they are unable to make any convincing arguments about it.
Your theory sounds more likely indeed. Since the ones not part of it would keep quiet cause they have nothing to say. While in the alternative, there should be at least a few that really know something but didn't go looney, where are they?
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 11, 2011, 12:08:16 PM
While in the alternative, there should be at least a few that really know something but didn't go looney, where are they?
I'd guess, lost in the shuffle, which, if I were inclined to conspiracy theory, I'd say might be part of the plan...
Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 10, 2011, 10:28:04 PM
One of my favorite conspiracies theory about 9/11 is that some double-agent in the military turned our own missile defense systems against us and used them to launch a strike on the Pentagon, meaning a plane never crashed in DC, and that's why all the videos of the attack on the Pentagon were confiscated and are yet to see the light of day.
Not saying I buy into it any more than I'd necessarily discount it, but it's a fun idea to play with.
What I don't get about theories like these...I mean there
were actual real people on these planes. What do the conspiracy theorists think happened to them if there was "no plane crash"? Are all on vacation on Mars having a good old laugh. How do they explain that away
Quote from: Doktor Blight on May 10, 2011, 05:52:54 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 10, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
I understand he's a crackpot, but this idea didn't come from him. I recall it was that one 9/11 conspiracy video that got a lot of circulation. Was it Zeitgeist? I forget.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this particular clip tries to add legitimacy to the conspiracy theory by having Stubblebine on it, but fails to mention that he retired almost 30 years ago, and before that, tried to walk through walls.
God dammit psychic warfare is important!
THE RUSSIANS COULD BEND SPOONS. We had to catch up with them!
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
You know, it is amazing how many ex-military intelligence and spook people end up parroting lunatic conspiracy theories. David Shayler comes to mind.
Its almost as if they're acting on orders to propagate them...
What does the government gain from people thinking 9/11 was an inside job? Unless you believe that it was an inside job and that theyre intentionally spreading stupid conspiracies to de-legitimize the true ones.
Fuck, that is a level of paranoia I refuse to entertain.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on May 11, 2011, 06:04:34 PM
What does the government gain from people thinking 9/11 was an inside job? Unless you believe that it was an inside job and that theyre intentionally spreading stupid conspiracies to de-legitimize the true ones.
Fuck, that is a level of paranoia I refuse to entertain.
That's exactly the kind of thing I expect from them.
I don't lose sleep over it, though. It's just the way it is.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on May 11, 2011, 06:04:34 PM
What does the government gain from people thinking 9/11 was an inside job?
Probably about as much as they gain from spying on Quakers to prevent terrorism.
Which is to say, not much. That said, 9/11 Truthers move in some unusual and dangerous circles - LaRouchers (who, it should be remembered, provided intelligence for Reagan), militia movement types, apocalyptic cults... the kind of people probably worth keeping an eye on. Trutherism is a kind of political religion, after all, which attempts to prove the state is illegitimate through trying to pin the charge terrorism on it. By leading the charge against the government, the government keeps an eye on people who may want to do it harm.
Of course, this flatters the Truthers own sense of self-importance, but like I said, the Usgov is spying on everyone nowadays, so they shouldn't feel too special.
Quote from: Cain on May 11, 2011, 06:26:05 PM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on May 11, 2011, 06:04:34 PM
What does the government gain from people thinking 9/11 was an inside job?
Probably about as much as they gain from spying on Quakers to prevent terrorism.
Which is to say, not much. That said, 9/11 Truthers move in some unusual and dangerous circles - LaRouchers (who, it should be remembered, provided intelligence for Reagan), militia movement types, apocalyptic cults... the kind of people probably worth keeping an eye on. Trutherism is a kind of political religion, after all, which attempts to prove the state is illegitimate through trying to pin the charge terrorism on it. By leading the charge against the government, the government keeps an eye on people who may want to do it harm.
Of course, this flatters the Truthers own sense of self-importance, but like I said, the Usgov is spying on everyone nowadays, so they shouldn't feel too special.
Ok, that makes sense.
It also keeps such people from yammering on about black sites, kill teams, the drug trade and the other actual, historically proven tools of US hegemony, by allowing them to become immersed in a fantasy world of increasingly outlandish conspiracy theories which no-one else will take seriously, thus effectively neutralizing their political threat potential.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 11, 2011, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 10, 2011, 10:28:04 PM
One of my favorite conspiracies theory about 9/11 is that some double-agent in the military turned our own missile defense systems against us and used them to launch a strike on the Pentagon, meaning a plane never crashed in DC, and that's why all the videos of the attack on the Pentagon were confiscated and are yet to see the light of day.
Not saying I buy into it any more than I'd necessarily discount it, but it's a fun idea to play with.
What I don't get about theories like these...I mean there were actual real people on these planes. What do the conspiracy theorists think happened to them if there was "no plane crash"? Are all on vacation on Mars having a good old laugh. How do they explain that away
Well, the lizard people have to eat human flesh or their telepathic powers stop working. Obviously the passengers of the patsy planes were sacrificed to the Reptilian Council so their mind control rays would be especially strong in the days after 9/11.
:tinfoilhat:
They usually claim the government killed them all and dumped the bodies later, OR that they never existed in the first place and were CIA-invented fake identities.
RED FUCKING HERRINGS!
That's all I see.
It's like Trump and the fucking "longform birth certificate." PAY NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER TO SHIT THAT MATTERS!
It's ricockulous.
Not sure who originally said this, but -
"It takes twenty years to create a market for a new product. Early on, consumers resist change IF the enemy can be "created" in the consumer's mind. In time, fight gives way to resistance. After twenty years, fatigue sets in, memory fades, and the metamorphosis is complete.
The rules for creating a bogus market are the same as for waging war. I refer the reader to Sun Tzu's 6th century B. C. book The Art Of War, summarized as follows: Outline an agenda, disseminate disinformation and misinformation, create confusion and dissension, raise an army of experts, use subversion, quote statistics. and finally create fear. Fear leads to panic, and panic to victory."
Have an emote, Jenne...
(http://www.globalresearch.ca/coverStoryPictures/13688.jpg)
Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 11, 2011, 07:15:22 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 11, 2011, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 10, 2011, 10:28:04 PM
One of my favorite conspiracies theory about 9/11 is that some double-agent in the military turned our own missile defense systems against us and used them to launch a strike on the Pentagon, meaning a plane never crashed in DC, and that's why all the videos of the attack on the Pentagon were confiscated and are yet to see the light of day.
Not saying I buy into it any more than I'd necessarily discount it, but it's a fun idea to play with.
What I don't get about theories like these...I mean there were actual real people on these planes. What do the conspiracy theorists think happened to them if there was "no plane crash"? Are all on vacation on Mars having a good old laugh. How do they explain that away
Well, the lizard people have to eat human flesh or their telepathic powers stop working. Obviously the passengers of the patsy planes were sacrificed to the Reptilian Council so their mind control rays would be especially strong in the days after 9/11.
:tinfoilhat:
:lol:
Quote from: Cain on May 11, 2011, 07:30:30 PM
They usually claim the government killed them all and dumped the bodies later, OR that they never existed in the first place and were CIA-invented fake identities.
Ahh seems like an awful lot of work for nothing (especially since even IF the gov't was behind it, it'd be much easier to just blow up the plane with everyone in it anyway. But, I suppose it all ties back to this....
Quote from: Cain on May 11, 2011, 06:30:02 PM
It also keeps such people from yammering on about black sites, kill teams, the drug trade and the other actual, historically proven tools of US hegemony, by allowing them to become immersed in a fantasy world of increasingly outlandish conspiracy theories which no-one else will take seriously, thus effectively neutralizing their political threat potential.
If you want really complicated, look into the theories that the airplanes were holograms and 9/11 was actually a Giant Death Lazor zapping the WTC. Yes, this is a real theory, and quite heavily subscribed to among hardcore Truthers. (ironically, a Discordian may have been involved in its genesis).
Of course, the easiest thing in the world would be to wait until terrorists planned such an attack and then let it through....which is probably why this theory is the least popular among both Truthers and mainstream types. Not much progress was ever made into figuring out who made all that money with the suspicious pre-9/11 trading now, was there...?
There's also the incredibly unlikely theory that Bureaucracy and Heirarchical Territorialism within the US's intelligence community, combined with a naive "it can't happen here" mentality caused massive oversights and blunders, allowing the terrorists to move with relative impunity.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 12, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
There's also the incredibly unlikely theory that Bureaucracy and Heirarchical Territorialism within the US's intelligence community, combined with a naive "it can't happen here" mentality caused massive oversights and blunders, allowing the terrorists to move with relative impunity.
All that domestic spying on citizens just doesn't leave a lot of time to spy on real threats.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 12, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
There's also the incredibly unlikely theory that Bureaucracy and Heirarchical Territorialism within the US's intelligence community, combined with a naive "it can't happen here" mentality caused massive oversights and blunders, allowing the terrorists to move with relative impunity.
Indeed. After all, when has US intelligence ever failed before 9/11?
The story I'm going with in The Plain and Honest Truth is that it was Al Qaeda that pulled off 9/11 and they used airplanes. That said, in the story, an FBI agent discovered the plot months before it was going to happen, but all of her attempts to warn the higher-ups were either ignored or just lost in the bureaucracy (through incompetence, not malice), so she finally flips, quits the FBI in August 2001 and plants some extra explosives in the World Trade Center the day before the attacks with the intention of casting blame on the US government out of some fucked up petty sense of vengeance. Then she goes on to be a founding member of the Truther movement even though she knows it was really Al Qaeda's doing.
HA! I really wish it turns out to be something like that. Also that the Coen brothers make a movie out of it.
With Jeff Bridges as Osama.
I would watch the hell out of that movie.
There do appear to be a number of interesting allegations which
touch on 9/11. Much in how the interesting thing about the Kennedy assassination is how many conspiracies do seem to have been going on at the time and might have been connected with it in some way, the spotlight thrown on Bin Laden's organisation post September 11th seems to have caused a lot of people to be uncomfortable, and for a lot of backroom deals to have happened.
For example, Sibel Edmonds allegations (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3137695.ece):
QuoteAmong the hours of covert tape recordings, she says she heard evidence that one well-known senior official in the US State Department was being paid by Turkish agents in Washington who were selling the information on to black market buyers, including Pakistan.
The name of the official – who has held a series of top government posts – is known to The Sunday Times. He strongly denies the claims.
However, Edmonds said: "He was aiding foreign operatives against US interests by passing them highly classified information, not only from the State Department but also from the Pentagon, in exchange for money, position and political objectives."
She claims that the FBI was also gathering evidence against senior Pentagon officials – including household names – who were aiding foreign agents.
[...]
The Turks, she says, often acted as a conduit for the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan's spy agency, because they were less likely to attract suspicion. Venues such as the American Turkish Council in Washington were used to drop off the cash, which was picked up by the official.
Edmonds said: "I heard at least three transactions like this over a period of 2½ years. There are almost certainly more."
The Pakistani operation was led by General Mahmoud Ahmad, then the ISI chief.
Intercepted communications showed Ahmad and his colleagues stationed in Washington were in constant contact with attachés in the Turkish embassy.
Intelligence analysts say that members of the ISI were close to Al-Qaeda before and after 9/11. Indeed, Ahmad was accused of sanctioning a $100,000 wire payment to Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers, immediately before the attacks.
The results of the espionage were almost certainly passed to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist.
Khan was close to Ahmad and the ISI. While running Pakistan's nuclear programme, he became a millionaire by selling atomic secrets to Libya, Iran and North Korea. He also used a network of companies in America and Britain to obtain components for a nuclear programme.
Khan caused an alert among western intelligence agencies when his aides met Osama Bin Laden. "We were aware of contact between A Q Khan's people and Al-Qaeda," a former CIA officer said last week. "There was absolute panic when we initially discovered this, but it kind of panned out in the end."
It is likely that the nuclear secrets stolen from the United States would have been sold to a number of rogue states by Khan.
Edmonds was later to see the scope of the Pakistani connections when it was revealed that one of her fellow translators at the FBI was the daughter of a Pakistani embassy official who worked for Ahmad. The translator was given top secret clearance despite protests from FBI investigators.
Edmonds says packages containing nuclear secrets were delivered by Turkish operatives, using their cover as members of the diplomatic and military community, to contacts at the Pakistani embassy in Washington.
Following 9/11, a number of the foreign operatives were taken in for questioning by the FBI on suspicion that they knew about or somehow aided the attacks.
Edmonds said the State Department official once again proved useful. "A primary target would call the official and point to names on the list and say, 'We need to get them out of the US because we can't afford for them to spill the beans'," she said. "The official said that he would 'take care of it'."
The four suspects on the list were released from interrogation and extradited.
That Bin Laden might have recieved nuclear tech from, ultimately, American sources, would be a deeply embarrassing relevation.
So would the idea that a firm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptech) working on "sensitive" projects for the military (and the Department of Energy, such as nuclear waste disposal (http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/021208-secure01.htm)) were involved with the possible Al-Qaeda financier Yasin Al-Qadi, who, incidentally, is great friends (http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/24/turkey-yasin-al-qadi-biz-cz_rm_0124alqadi.html) with the Turkish Prime Minister. Qadi was cleared by Swiss courts, it should be noted, but he was previously named in two UN resolutions concerning the funding of terrorism, so..
Meanwhile, the Saudis were leaning on the CIA and State Department in Jeddah (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm) to issue visas for known terrorists, so they could be trained for operations in the then Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan. Springman, a former State Department official, suggests this went on well after the withdrawal of Soviet troops from the region. The CIA seems to have been instructed to turn a blind eye, so long as American interests were protected. Indeed, in May of 2001, the US instituted the Visa Express program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Express). It appears several hijackers used this method, and the Jeddah Consulate, to gain entry to the United States to carry out the attacks.
And of course, there is good evidence than Bin Laden was sending arms, money and people (http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=/content/analysis/a15.incl) to Bosnia to aid the Muslims there against the Serbs. And in the Kosovo War, it looks like the KLA formed a link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aVhlKDvPg_YJ:www.wikileaks.ch/wiki/The_End_of_the_Affair%253F_The_BND,_CIA_and_Kosovo%27s_Deep_State+bnd+kla+al-qaeda&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk) between the BND and CIA on one side, and Al-Qaeda on the other.
By concentrating on 9/11 itself, and unprovable/insane conspiracy theories about it, the greater context is obscured. That context is mostly embarrassment, short-sightedness and general stupdity, but it deserves to be exposed regardless.
This brings to mind the old adage "Rotten to the core."
Thanks Cain, for the healthy dose of reality.