Principia Discordia

I loled. http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religious-reaction-in-brains-of-fans-say-neuroscientists/

I am not surprised at all. I wonder if political or martial arts do the same.

Quote from: Canis latrans securis on May 20, 2011, 03:31:06 PM
I am not surprised at all. I wonder if political or martial arts do the same.

Only if humans are involved.

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:26:35 PM
I loled. http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religious-reaction-in-brains-of-fans-say-neuroscientists/

I am utterly unsurprised that vile infidel Apple users treat their Apples as an object of worship.  They are all religious fanatics that should be wiped out.

There's a joke here involving Christians wanting to exterminate Muslims for being violent, but I haven't had enough coffee yet, and I can't find the punchline.

I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Systems would crash and nobody could win.  :lulz:

Incompatable process error, please reboot and try again.  :D

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

IT'S A BUNCH OF BOXES WITH FUCKING WIRES AND SHIT111111 :argh!: :argh!: :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:

When you buy something you always want to assume what you've got is the best as someone who is using win 7, xp, os x and a ubuntu distribution for work can safely say;

There is no satisfactory operating system.

None of them do exactly what they should do. Computers suck, technology sucks.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

And Windows users tend to be boring, Dockers-wearing fucks with bad haircuts who live in the suburbs. I want them all to declare Holy War on each other.

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:44:29 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

And Windows users tend to be boring, Dockers-wearing fucks with bad haircuts who live in the suburbs. I want them all to declare Holy War on each other.

:aww:

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:44:29 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

And Windows users tend to be boring, Dockers-wearing fucks with bad haircuts who live in the suburbs. I want them all to declare Holy War on each other.

Now, now, there's no sense getting all personal about it.  There's nothing boring about windows users.  They can play minefield AND solitaire.  Linux users can congratulate themselves for being so clever, and the Apple User is at the mic saying

A duck killed a cow,
Woman, don't mess with my space,
I walk like a tree...

While everyone else is saying "craaaaaazy" and snapping their fingers while they slurp down expresso in those silly little cups.

I have all this shit figured out.

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:44:29 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

And Windows users tend to be boring, Dockers-wearing fucks with bad haircuts who live in the suburbs. I want them all to declare Holy War on each other.

I wear sweats and haven't had a haircut in years.  :D

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:48:07 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:44:29 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 03:40:14 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 03:37:40 PM
I would like to see a holy war between Apple and Linux users.

Linux users tend to be the ones that get REALLY mad if you make fun of Linux, as I am sure you may remember from this very board.  Apple users tend to wear berets, hold their cigarettes in a reverse grip, and recite bad poetry at coffee houses.

And Windows users tend to be boring, Dockers-wearing fucks with bad haircuts who live in the suburbs. I want them all to declare Holy War on each other.

Now, now, there's no sense getting all personal about it.  There's nothing boring about windows users.  They can play minefield AND solitaire.  Linux users can congratulate themselves for being so clever, and the Apple User is at the mic saying

A duck killed a cow,
Woman, don't mess with my space,
I walk like a tree...

While everyone else is saying "craaaaaazy" and snapping their fingers while they slurp down expresso in those silly little cups.

I have all this shit figured out.

:lulz:

Heh, I must be a heretic then :D I just picked up a laptop with Windows 7... first Windows box I've owned since Windows 95 :D

I guess we are a house divided:  not only is my husband a Muslim and me a Christian (HISTORICALLY speaking, that's how we grew up), but he's a Mac user and I'm PC (Sony Saio laptop, but who's counting...?)...

Quote from: Jenne on May 20, 2011, 05:12:08 PM
I guess we are a house divided:  not only is my husband a Muslim and me a Christian (HISTORICALLY speaking, that's how we grew up), but he's a Mac user and I'm PC (Sony Saio laptop, but who's counting...?)...

See?  This is exactly what I was talking about.

Coffee shops.  Hookahs.  Bad poetry.

Bad poetry--oh noetry.

I'm actually more of a hippie type, but yes, he bought the hookah.

And I probably would be on a Mac if my workplace permitted on a regular basis.

Quote from: Jenne on May 20, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
I'm actually more of a hippie type, but yes, he bought the hookah.

HAH!  Can I call 'em, or WHAT?   :lulz:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 05:16:13 PM

Quote from: Jenne on May 20, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
I'm actually more of a hippie type, but yes, he bought the hookah.

HAH!  Can I call 'em, or WHAT?   :lulz:

:lulz:  Tr00f, he's the one who decided to install the solar panels and the electric car is HIS baby.

(incidentally, the thing is a glorified golf cart, but I'm enjoying not paying $4.25/gal for gas)

I have a Mac and a Windows machine in the same office, and Linux installed on my laptop.

I fucking hate computer users who get all religious and judgmental about it. They deserve prolapse and hobnail patterns on the back of their heads.

Windows at work, mac at home.

That pretty much sums it up.  I'd never try to do a complicated spreadsheet at home, and I'd never attempt to remix a track at work.

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 05:21:35 PM
I have a Mac and a Windows machine in the same office, and Linux installed on my laptop.

I fucking hate computer users who get all religious and judgmental about it. They deserve prolapse and hobnail patterns on the back of their heads.

Well, hobnail patterns are your department after all.

Windows everywhere.  It works for me.  Also, BSoD is a good excuse for why I didn't do anything.

I really only take the piss on this subject because some people get all wrapped around the axle about it, and that's like waving a red flag at me, know what I mean?

Personally, I like the idea of being able to pick and choose OS's at will.  Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have had it all their own way long enough.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2011, 05:25:06 PM
Windows everywhere.  It works for me.  Also, BSoD is a good excuse for why I didn't do anything.

I really only take the piss on this subject because some people get all wrapped around the axle about it, and that's like waving a red flag at me, know what I mean?

Personally, I like the idea of being able to pick and choose OS's at will.  Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have had it all their own way long enough.

I like the cut of your jib, man.

I use Windows stuff mostly because they tend to agree more with my wallet. 

Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 20, 2011, 05:30:38 PM
I use Windows stuff mostly because they tend to agree more with my wallet. 

I use whatever the hell is on the computer when I buy it. PC seems to be much cheaper than Mac.

Quote from: Charley Brown on May 20, 2011, 05:31:40 PM

Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 20, 2011, 05:30:38 PM
I use Windows stuff mostly because they tend to agree more with my wallet. 

I use whatever the hell is on the computer when I buy it. PC seems to be much cheaper than Mac.

THIS!!

Quote from: Charley Brown on May 20, 2011, 05:31:40 PM

Quote from: R.W.H.N. on May 20, 2011, 05:30:38 PM
I use Windows stuff mostly because they tend to agree more with my wallet. 

I use whatever the hell is on the computer when I buy it. PC seems to be much cheaper than Mac.

XP!!

     I AM WINDOWS!

(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4aca1b490ee8651e02b05616-400-300/if-flash-isnt-adobes-most-important-product-why-is-it-so-enraged-about-all-this.jpg)

AND YOU CAN TOO!

Quote from: Charley Brown on May 20, 2011, 05:23:47 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 20, 2011, 05:21:35 PM
I have a Mac and a Windows machine in the same office, and Linux installed on my laptop.

I fucking hate computer users who get all religious and judgmental about it. They deserve prolapse and hobnail patterns on the back of their heads.

Well, hobnail patterns are your department after all.

:thanks:

I was raised on DOS and Windows Workgroups when I was a kid, and I fucking despised Apple...  I was another one of those people who loudly yelled "Macs suck" with no supporting evidence or whatever.  And now I have a MBP as my main computer, and an iPad for school.  I haven't tried Linux yet, but I'd like to.  I just... don't want to deal with Windows anymore, and I resent having to fix my dad's computer all the time.  I may complete the trinity and get an iPhone when my htc phone dies, but that's only because I'm comfortable jailbreaking iOS.

I like to drink my espresso in a big cup with whipped cream and caramel sauce on top :3  espresso con panna, I think it's called?  Where I used to live up north, the barista at my usual shop would upgrade me to the con panna for free because I didn't pronounce it "ex"presso.

I have a mac, i like it. windows is ok except that vista crap my mother has that she always calls me to help her with something when i cant even see the computer GAH

I drink coffee. From cardboard cups. Fucking poseurs.

Also, fuck Vista, the Mac OS family and people who worship Linux based OSes to the point orgasmicly spewing it out everywhere.

IT'S A FUCKING BOX WITH FUCKING WIRES AND SHIT WITH SOME SHIT IN IT THAT LIGHTS UP AND MAKES PRETTY COLORS!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if Discordianism makes neurological 'religion' attachments less intense.  I too am okay with whatever OS is most convenient.  I tend toward linux/windows because I don't have a mac.  If I had a BeBox, I'd be using BeOS on that. 

OSes, like religion, work best if applied contextually.

Coyote wins the thread.

Being pretentious about computers is so fucking stupid it makes me froth just a bit.

Personally, I think that Apple is a shit company and they make shit products. Linux is cool but I can't be arsed to learn it enough to make it useful to me. But what kind of a fuck do I give about what you like to use on your computer? None at all.

I use Windows because

1) It comes on the computers I buy,
2) I've been using it since I was a teenager so I already know how to do everything in it, and
3) I just plain don't do anything on a computer that Windows isn't perfectly good for.

So basically, cost, familiarity and lack of reason to use anything else.

I don't even know the last time I saw the BSOD on my own computer. I'm running XP and Windows 7 on different machines and they both seem pretty damn stable. But then I don't play PC games or make media files, either.

Really, when it comes to Apple, the whole Mac thing isn't even my main concern with them. It's this: what is the point of an iPod or an iPad? I have a modern cell phone with an earphone jack and a laptop with a built in wireless card. What possible function could an iPod or iPad fill that isn't already being served by one of those two devices, and for less money? Is there any reason at all to own either outside of trying to be trendy? I don't get it.

I have a friend who hates computers and modern technology in general (Does not own a cell phone, still has a rotary phone, and writes on a manual typewriter) but thinks iPads are awesome. I don't get it, but I think it has to do with the way his brain processes information. So I figure that a lot of that "personal preference" shit is probably related to how we're all different etc etc.

Which makes JUDGING THE KINDS OF PRODUCTS OTHER PEOPLE PREFER extra dopetastic, because it presumes that the world would be better if everyone was the same, uniform, cardboard-cutout sheep.

iPads are awesome.  I bought mine because I had fibromyalgia which made my computer too heavy to carry to school.  The iPad is all light and convenient, and also, Lego Harry Potter is super fun :3

Windows = Fine if you stay away from ME and Vista

Mac = Fine if you like paying twice as much as you need to for your processing power

Linux = Fine if you want to spend 3 weeks fucking about with kernel recompiles, trying to get software to work on it, before giving up and installing some open source equivalent that sucks shit through a straw compared to the real thing.

The verdict - there is no perfect OS or platform. Anyone who claims otherwise will suffer my derision. I'm an equal opportunities bastard and will mock a fanboy of any system.

One other thing - touchscreens - stupidest interface idea ever invented. "Oooooh I know, lets make a UI that involves repeatedly rubbing your greasy fingers all over a shiny glass screen - what could possibly go wrong?" I'd rather use a stylus, kthnx.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 21, 2011, 11:20:09 AM
One other thing - touchscreens - stupidest interface idea ever invented. "Oooooh I know, lets make a UI that involves repeatedly rubbing your greasy fingers all over a shiny glass screen - what could possibly go wrong?" I'd rather use a stylus, kthnx.

Then Pent lost his stylus and quietly wept into his gadget.

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 21, 2011, 03:39:06 AM
I use Windows because

1) It comes on the computers I buy,
2) I've been using it since I was a teenager so I already know how to do everything in it, and
3) I just plain don't do anything on a computer that Windows isn't perfectly good for.

So basically, cost, familiarity and lack of reason to use anything else.

I don't even know the last time I saw the BSOD on my own computer. I'm running XP and Windows 7 on different machines and they both seem pretty damn stable. But then I don't play PC games or make media files, either.

Really, when it comes to Apple, the whole Mac thing isn't even my main concern with them. It's this: what is the point of an iPod or an iPad? I have a modern cell phone with an earphone jack and a laptop with a built in wireless card. What possible function could an iPod or iPad fill that isn't already being served by one of those two devices, and for less money? Is there any reason at all to own either outside of trying to be trendy? I don't get it.

100% THIS.

Well, I have an mp3player rather than using my phone, because even my fairly modern phone is not a smart phone and my player, which I bought 6 years earlier, still has more in the way of storage and battery power.  But I'm not up on smartphones, so I may be missing out there.  But iPads I totally agree with.

And I do play games on Windows 7 (in a rare feat of indulgence, I bought a brand new laptop entirely for playing games on, so it came with 7 pre-loaded) and apart from, in some older games, the odd tendency for the taskbar to show on the bottom of the screen during loading, it is absolutely fine.  My processor and RAM are good, in line with what you would expect from a laptop made in the past 12 months, but nothing super-fancy, and everything plays on it without a hitch.  The one time I had a problem, I am certain it was a game fault and not an OS one.

I'd be happy using Ubuntu on my old laptop, which I use entirely for word processing, research and going online, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort, even with Vista's notorious issues.  So many files are on it, the backing up alone would take a full day's effort.

As for Macs....the school I worked with in Switzerland ran them on their network.  The only real annoyance was getting used to the differences between them and Windows.  I wouldn't buy one, but only because I think they are overpriced for what I need.  But if I was professionally or semi-professionally producing media content much of the time, I'm sure I'd reconsider.

I like how many people read the OP and then immediately leapt to judging the kinds of computers/gadgets other people like.  :lulz:

Monkey-mind runs deep and strong.

Well, I've always had a thing about iPads.  Its not that they're Apple, its just I don't understand what their point is.  I don't understand why Microsoft are attempting to break open the tablet market either.  They must be popular...I just don't see the rationale.

Is there a reason you need to?

I'd like to know.  Does there need to be any other reason?

Quote from: Cain on May 21, 2011, 03:41:48 PM
I'd like to know.  Does there need to be any other reason?

Certainly not. But, curiosity and derision are two very different things. "I don't get it, what's the deal?" is quite different from "Why would anyone, dumbest idea ever".

But they're also not mutually exclusive. I am curious about many things that cause a feeling of derision in me.

With me, it's just plain curiosity. I can get paying more for a Mac if you're doing a lot of media work because they're supposed to be pretty good for that kind of stuff. I know that's what we used when I was in journalism classes way back in the day. But for home use, when you're just doing the usual web-surfing/word processing/storing pictures/etc. that seems to be what most people use computers for anymore, I guess I don't see any difference except that Macs are more expensive and have the brand name. I'm not against people using Apple products, and I'm certainly not a Microsoft loyalist (it's hard to believe there could be such a thing)... I just don't see where there's an meaningful advantage to using a Mac for the average person that justifies the price.

But I guess that's where personal preference comes in and reminds us that people aren't necessarily rational actors motivated solely by black and white cost-benefit analyses.

Now if someone's using a Mac because s/he wants to stick it to Bill Gates, that's hilarious to me, not only because Gates is off doing his own thing anymore without Microsoft, but also because the way Apple seems to hold back features they could put in their devices so they can release updated versions that include those features a year down the road (after the original nerfed version has sold a few million units) says to me that Steve Jobs has no compunctions about sticking it to Apple fans if it'll make him money. It's similar to what Nintendo's been doing with its portables ever since the GBA...

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 21, 2011, 07:45:07 PMMicrosoft loyalist (it's hard to believe there could be such a thing)

:wave:

Article = total neurophilia.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 21, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
But they're also not mutually exclusive. I am curious about many things that cause a feeling of derision in me.

They're not mutually exclusive.

It's just that applying one of them to people's technology preferences is super-dumb.  :lol:

*
Chapter 1 almost done so THERE!
*

Consumers  do not want computers. They never did and only accepted them because they're so useful it would be absurd not to. But people still resent them. 

They want the the media and applications and GPS and all those things that computers DO. Apples has succeeded gloriously in removing the computer from the PC. It's just personal. All your shit wrapped up in that Hottest, Newest Thang you saw on the TeeVee. 

iPads are very convenient for reading PDF's (easier than my netbook), web browsing, playing games seemingly designed for and by children, even word processing to a point. 

And if you don't have a computer, have an old computer you rarely use because you're "Too Damned Old To Figure That Shit Out" or "Just want something to watch movies on when I fly" it is near perfect. 

If ridiculously, expensive. 

I would never buy one, but I wouldn't throw one away if were given to me

Quote from: Nigel on May 21, 2011, 10:07:03 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 21, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
But they're also not mutually exclusive. I am curious about many things that cause a feeling of derision in me.

They're not mutually exclusive.

It's just that applying one of them to people's technology preferences is super-dumb.  :lol:

Sometimes peoples' technological preferences are super-dumb.

I like computers. :(

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 02:16:39 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 21, 2011, 10:07:03 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 21, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
But they're also not mutually exclusive. I am curious about many things that cause a feeling of derision in me.

They're not mutually exclusive.

It's just that applying one of them to people's technology preferences is super-dumb.  :lol:

Sometimes peoples' technological preferences are super-dumb.

Sometimes, yes. Like people who buy top-end computers just to feel superior, when they're actually low-end users. That's dumb.

But most of the time, people just buy stuff that works for them, and it may not work for me but why the fuck should I care one way or the other. I don't want an iPad, but I know people who have them and think they're the cat's pajamas. You know what? I also am not a world-famous photographer or an advertising executive or a physicist, and I don't use my computers for the things they use theirs for.

As for calling it "ridiculously expensive"... OMG. Aren't they like, $500 or something? For the newest one? Since when is a purse-sized touchscreen computer available for $500? Oh, wait.

Ridiculously expensive for my needs for sure, I should have been clearer there. For my budget, considering I spent $39 for my netbook it would be ridiculous for me to spend $629-829 for that. For someone with no computer at all and certain needs an that price would be perfectly reasonable. Lots of folks buying these have computers and smartphones already, that is IMO a bit silly, but I certainly don't give a shit what people spend there money on.

I deal with a lot of people buying these things, the bulk of consumers that come my way want all the good stuff without the actual fuss and mess of the technology that drives it. Just my $0.02 on why people want them: less computer and more stuff I want.

Maybe it's because I have tiny hands, but I can easily type on my iPad and use it for all my notes at school.  I buy all my books and most of my textbooks as ebooks, which are cheaper/free from the interbutts, and I can easily read and annotate the bajillion PDF articles I have each week, instead of straining on a computer screen or killing fifty trees and also my wallet each week.  I also play music on it, since its in my purse anyway and has more storage/battery on it than my phone.  I also have an interval timer on it for doin high intensity interval training.  I've used the slideshow program for power points for school. I have a multi language dictionary on here which is a lifesaver, instead of carrying around an English or Russian dictionary the size of several bricks.  It's lighter than my laptop and fits in my purse.  I can change the keyboard to Русски язык with the touch of a button instead of having to switch out keyboards for Russian home works.

I don't know, I like it.

Yeah, it sounds extremely useful for what you use it for.

I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

I'm not sure who was doing that ITT, but it wasn't me. I just think Apple is a ridiculous company that makes ridiculous products and sells them for ridiculous prices. It has nothing at all to do with my way.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

Except when it comes to Holy^TM stuff, of course.  Then there's no fucking around.

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 21, 2011, 07:45:07 PM
I just don't see where there's an meaningful advantage to using a Mac for the average person that justifies the price.

How about the likelihood of running into malicious code for them and stability issues?

It seems to me that Apple is interested in all the details of experiencing a computer. The location of ports, the magnetically connected power cord, the muted sound of the keyboard, the trackpads with the invisible button, the aesthetics, the ease of cleaning it, simplicity in using their software, et cetera. At some point all these little details become something greater than just a bunch of little niceties and it's less about using a computer and more about the thing you're doing on the computer in the first place.

Windows also doesn't have a stable track record in my experience. They might have recently figured it out, but they still have a significant history of crashing and getting viruses. It's clearly a more serious concern to people who earn their bread on computers, but it's a hassle that people are aware of and are willing to pay a premium to avoid, even if they don't give a flying fuck that their laptop power adapter has a little integrated cord organizer.

Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on May 22, 2011, 07:11:15 AM

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 21, 2011, 07:45:07 PM
I just don't see where there's an meaningful advantage to using a Mac for the average person that justifies the price.

How about the likelihood of running into malicious code for them and stability issues?

It seems to me that Apple is interested in all the details of experiencing a computer. The location of ports, the magnetically connected power cord, the muted sound of the keyboard, the trackpads with the invisible button, the aesthetics, the ease of cleaning it, simplicity in using their software, et cetera. At some point all these little details become something greater than just a bunch of little niceties and it's less about using a computer and more about the thing you're doing on the computer in the first place.

Windows also doesn't have a stable track record in my experience. They might have recently figured it out, but they still have a significant history of crashing and getting viruses. It's clearly a more serious concern to people who earn their bread on computers, but it's a hassle that people are aware of and are willing to pay a premium to avoid, even if they don't give a flying fuck that their laptop power adapter has a little integrated cord organizer.

Actually,

http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/era-mac-malware-immunity-over-0791/

and

http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/five-apple-security-myths-hard-truths-0592/

and

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43101276/ns/technology_and_science-security

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 08:11:27 AM

Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on May 22, 2011, 07:11:15 AM

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 21, 2011, 07:45:07 PM
I just don't see where there's an meaningful advantage to using a Mac for the average person that justifies the price.

How about the likelihood of running into malicious code for them and stability issues?

It seems to me that Apple is interested in all the details of experiencing a computer. The location of ports, the magnetically connected power cord, the muted sound of the keyboard, the trackpads with the invisible button, the aesthetics, the ease of cleaning it, simplicity in using their software, et cetera. At some point all these little details become something greater than just a bunch of little niceties and it's less about using a computer and more about the thing you're doing on the computer in the first place.

Windows also doesn't have a stable track record in my experience. They might have recently figured it out, but they still have a significant history of crashing and getting viruses. It's clearly a more serious concern to people who earn their bread on computers, but it's a hassle that people are aware of and are willing to pay a premium to avoid, even if they don't give a flying fuck that their laptop power adapter has a little integrated cord organizer.

Actually,

http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/era-mac-malware-immunity-over-0791/

and

http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/five-apple-security-myths-hard-truths-0592/

and

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43101276/ns/technology_and_science-security

I never said Macs were immune, as those links seem to assume, but it still is more likely for your PC to get infected than a Mac.

This is from your own source:

Quote
But even though it's true that Macintosh computers, iPhones, iPods and iPads (the latter three of which run Apple's iOS mobile operating system) are subject to far fewer attacks than their Windows (or Android) counterparts, Apple products are definitely not immune to security flaws.

...

"The reality today remains that if I want to write some code that will attempt to control the maximum number of systems, then I need to have that code target the most common systems out there [Windows]. But as the number of Mac system grows, so will the attention of the attackers."

I'd also like to point out that the "MS" in your MSNBC link stands for Microsoft.

It's simple economics - the hackers have to invest time and resources into exploiting security holes, that's why they go for the system that almost everyone is running. This is the only reason Linux and apple are "more secure" if 90% of the hardware on the planet was penguin or apple powered you'd see a complete reverse of this. Still, you can't change the facts - for as long as most of the population of earth are running windows, pretty much any alternative is less likely to suffer from exploits.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:46:50 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

I'm just going to say this again, because this discussion is rapidly spiraling into "I'm going to justify my choices as a way of pointing out why yours are wrong", and that's really just irredeemably stupid.

Everybody here is capable of researching devices and picking ones that suit them. If different devices didn't suit different people, there wouldn't be so many options.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 22, 2011, 05:02:12 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

Except when it comes to Holy^TM stuff, of course.  Then there's no fucking around.

Well, if it's Holy^TM stuff, there's just no fucking arguing it.  :lulz:

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:49:51 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

I'm not sure who was doing that ITT, but it wasn't me. I just think Apple is a ridiculous company that makes ridiculous products and sells them for ridiculous prices. It has nothing at all to do with my way.

In other words, you're ridiculing the people who make a different choice than you, and justifying your choices. :lulz:

I was running Windows 98 on dial-up the last time I had a virus problem on a PC. The security angle really doesn't seem relevant to me. And like I said, I couldn't tell you the last time Windows crashed on me, but it's been years.

If Apple products work for you, that's great, but a lot of the "downsides" to using a Windows-based PC have pretty much become mythological anymore unless you're visiting www.givemeavirusandcrashmycomputer.com

Except for the spyware. Or if you have kids using your computer... they seem to manage to find viruses quite a bit. Oh and the fucking adware.

With a few simple steps, most net-savvy individuals can easily proof a Windows machine against adware, spyware and general infection.  It's not ideal, but since it is an accepted fact Windows will be more heavily targeted (see: P3nt's post) there will be more software and support out there to prevent and deal with the outcome of this.

On the other hand, Macs are generally more secure - which is fine, except for when they do get caught out that one time, and the consequences throw Apple customers in at the deep end.  Since "macs don't get infected" as a rule, there will be less work put into creating the workarounds and support, which will likely also be of a lower quality and probably longer in finding their way to end-users.

In both situations, a net-savvy person is likely to be fine, which suggests the problem is not hardware or OS, but idiots using computers.

Quote from: Cain on May 22, 2011, 04:43:10 PM
With a few simple steps, most net-savvy individuals can easily proof a Windows machine against adware, spyware and general infection.  It's not ideal, but since it is an accepted fact Windows will be more heavily targeted (see: P3nt's post) there will be more software and support out there to prevent and deal with the outcome of this.

On the other hand, Macs are generally more secure - which is fine, except for when they do get caught out that one time, and the consequences throw Apple customers in at the deep end.  Since "macs don't get infected" as a rule, there will be less work put into creating the workarounds and support, which will likely also be of a lower quality and probably longer in finding their way to end-users.

In both situations, a net-savvy person is likely to be fine, which suggests the problem is not hardware or OS, but idiots using computers.

What Cain said.

The computer I use for image-handling and shipping runs Windows, and the computer I use for my own personal shit is a Mac. I like the Mac better and have had fewer problems with it, but there are things about Mac OS that I don't like and the file management system is among them. On the other hand, I hate how virus/adware/spy scanners slow my Windows computer the fuck down. Neither is perfect. Both are fine.

i have an oecumenic machine at home. running ubuntu which can start a virtual windows xp or macosx if i need to.

virtualbox brings peace and happiness to OS fanatics. because remember: it's not a sin if you run it virtually.

I can never seem to get virtual MacOS or Windows to run well on my Linux machines. Probably because they're so old and slow.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:46:50 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Yeah, and like I said...if you want an iPad with any sort of worthwhile capabilities it's gonna run you more like $700 or $800.

ETA: 32GB with wifi and 3G is $700, 64GB with wifi and 3G is $800.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:31:21 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:46:50 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Yeah, and like I said...if you want an iPad with any sort of worthwhile capabilities it's gonna run you more like $700 or $800.

ETA: 32GB with wifi and 3G is $700, 64GB with wifi and 3G is $800.

Well, if your $220 Hong Kong knockoff runs just as well, I'm impressed; good deal.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:16:56 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:49:51 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

I'm not sure who was doing that ITT, but it wasn't me. I just think Apple is a ridiculous company that makes ridiculous products and sells them for ridiculous prices. It has nothing at all to do with my way.

In other words, you're ridiculing the people who make a different choice than you, and justifying your choices. :lulz:

No. I'm not even discussing what my personal preference is because it's totally irrelevant. I'm ridiculing one specific choice that some people make, and really I'm ridiculing the ridiculous company that makes those ridiculous products more than I'm ridiculing the people that choose to waste their money on those ridiculous products. Surely you can see the difference, so I'll thank you to stop completely twisting what I've said ITT.

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 05:33:42 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:31:21 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:46:50 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Yeah, and like I said...if you want an iPad with any sort of worthwhile capabilities it's gonna run you more like $700 or $800.

ETA: 32GB with wifi and 3G is $700, 64GB with wifi and 3G is $800.

Well, if your $220 Hong Kong knockoff runs just as well, I'm impressed; good deal.

Runs better. Android kicks the crap out of Apple's tablet OS, and gives me access to all the cool apps that iPad users can't get.

Only fair to mention, my tablet would not be an appropriate purchase for someone who wasn't computer savvy. Took quite a bit of messing around with to get the settings into a configuration that's usable for a gaijin. :lulz:

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:36:27 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:16:56 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:49:51 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:13:49 AM
Frankly, I mostly see the "my way is the best and therefore only right way!" posturing as pure insecurity.

I'm not sure who was doing that ITT, but it wasn't me. I just think Apple is a ridiculous company that makes ridiculous products and sells them for ridiculous prices. It has nothing at all to do with my way.

In other words, you're ridiculing the people who make a different choice than you, and justifying your choices. :lulz:

No. I'm not even discussing what my personal preference is because it's totally irrelevant. I'm ridiculing one specific choice that some people make, and really I'm ridiculing the ridiculous company that makes those ridiculous products more than I'm ridiculing the people that choose to waste their money on those ridiculous products. Surely you can see the difference, so I'll thank you to stop completely twisting what I've said ITT.

You can try to frame it that way, but it's awfully hard to escape the implication that people who choose these "ridiculous" products are lacking in critical thinking skills.

Well, yeah. That implication is totally present. :lulz:

I'm just pointing out that it's not a case of "the way I do it is better", but a case of "there are so many ways to do this, why would you pick the stupidest and most expensive way?"

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:39:04 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 05:33:42 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:31:21 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 04:46:50 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 22, 2011, 04:12:30 AM

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
I got a kick-ass tablet with a 10" touchscreen that runs Android and does everything an iPad does, and I got it for $220 from Hong Kong on ebay. Yeah, I had to teach myself some chinese on the fly in order to switch the interface to english (it also has a cyrillic setting for russian), but I think that was worth saving $600.

By my math, $499 minus $220 is not even close to $600.

And that sounds awesome! I probably wouldn't be willing to take the risk or put the time into tinkering with it, but it's a good thing that some people are because it keeps the market competitive.

the cheapest iPad you can get is $629, and that's only 16GB and wi-fi only, no 3G. The 32GB wi-fi and 3G version (what my tablet has) goes for $799, IIRC.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Yeah, and like I said...if you want an iPad with any sort of worthwhile capabilities it's gonna run you more like $700 or $800.

ETA: 32GB with wifi and 3G is $700, 64GB with wifi and 3G is $800.

Well, if your $220 Hong Kong knockoff runs just as well, I'm impressed; good deal.

Runs better. Android kicks the crap out of Apple's tablet OS, and gives me access to all the cool apps that iPad users can't get.

Only fair to mention, my tablet would not be an appropriate purchase for someone who wasn't computer savvy. Took quite a bit of messing around with to get the settings into a configuration that's usable for a gaijin. :lulz:

That "quite a bit of messing around" might easily be worth spending an extra $500 for some people, BTW.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 05:44:11 PM
Well, yeah. That implication is totally present. :lulz:

I'm just pointing out that it's not a case of "the way I do it is better", but a case of "there are so many ways to do this, why would you pick the stupidest and most expensive way?"

I am just trying to point out that what you think is the stupidest and most expensive way may be the smartest and cheapest way for someone else, because their situation is different. For example, I wouldn't buy a cheapo tablet off eBay unless I was completely willing to eat it if the hardware breaks in six months... so there's risk management. I also wouldn't want to buy something I had to spend more than an hour tinkering with to get it to work. This is especially true for people who have a high billable hourly rate... when my beads were selling well, three hours of fucking with a tablet to make it work would have been a loss of $600 in torch time, and I'd rather just shell out for something with a warranty that works right fucking now and has hardware support.

So, you're willing to take a risk, are tech-savvy, and have time to burn. So a Hong Kong tablet running Android makes sense for you. But it's not the best or smartest choice for everyone.

Well-reviewed Android tablets with hardware support are very close in price to iPads. If I didn't want to support Apple, and I wanted a tablet, I'd probably buy one of those.

This whole discussion is exactly why the "my gadgetry choices are smarter than yours" discussion is completely retarded... because everyone's life and needs are different.

Good thing we're (again) not having that discussion, but rather the "your gadgetry choices are totally retarded regardless of what my gadgetry choices are" discussion, because everyone's life and needs may be different but buying ridiculous crap from the Cult of Apple never makes sense.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 06:03:50 PM
Good thing we're (again) not having that discussion, but rather the "your gadgetry choices are totally retarded regardless of what my gadgetry choices are" discussion, because everyone's life and needs may be different but buying ridiculous crap from the Cult of Apple never makes sense.

This appears to be a matter of religion for you.  :lulz:

Nah, you just ran with it and I saw an opportunity to get you back for doing the same thing to me in the "what is a hipster" thread. :lulz:

I mean, I do genuinely feel that way about Apple, but it's not like I actually GIVE two shits about any of this.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 22, 2011, 06:10:59 PM
Nah, you just ran with it and I saw an opportunity to get you back for doing the same thing to me in the "what is a hipster" thread. :lulz:

But you ARE a hipster.

THE FUCK


FUCKING HIPSTERS!!!!! :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:

FTR I don't actually remember the "what is a hipster" thread, so I'm not sure if my last post has any relevance.

There are drawbacks to busting the chops of an epileptic with a really shitty memory.  :lulz:

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 22, 2011, 04:17:23 PM
I was running Windows 98 on dial-up the last time I had a virus problem on a PC. The security angle really doesn't seem relevant to me. And like I said, I couldn't tell you the last time Windows crashed on me, but it's been years.

If Apple products work for you, that's great, but a lot of the "downsides" to using a Windows-based PC have pretty much become mythological anymore unless you're visiting www.givemeavirusandcrashmycomputer.com

It was quite a while ago that I personally owned a PC, but I did have a lot of problems with it.

However, quite recently I worked for a solid year on a Windows network and it crashed at least once a month, putting all the graphics tards out of work for a day or two while the tech guy got it up and running again.

I think the "mythology" here is your faith in Windows.

Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on May 22, 2011, 07:19:11 PM

Quote from: Laughin Jude on May 22, 2011, 04:17:23 PM
I was running Windows 98 on dial-up the last time I had a virus problem on a PC. The security angle really doesn't seem relevant to me. And like I said, I couldn't tell you the last time Windows crashed on me, but it's been years.

If Apple products work for you, that's great, but a lot of the "downsides" to using a Windows-based PC have pretty much become mythological anymore unless you're visiting www.givemeavirusandcrashmycomputer.com

It was quite a while ago that I personally owned a PC, but I did have a lot of problems with it.

However, quite recently I worked for a solid year on a Windows network and it crashed at least once a month, putting all the graphics tards out of work for a day or two while the tech guy got it up and running again.

I think the "mythology" here is your faith in Windows.

All the problems I've had with a windows system has been either due to the Army stacking too much nanny-ware on systems with Vista that don't meet the minimum requirements for it or random hardware malfunctions that were probably caused by improper long term storage of my desktop.

I love Windows, and I think that Microsoft is awesome.

I love Bill Gates, and I think that Microsoft is decent.

I love Steve Jobs, he's like a phrophet of teh future, an architect of tomorrow, he's building our dreams man, he really is

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 22, 2011, 11:06:34 PM
I love Steve Jobs, he's like a phrophet of teh future, an architect of tomorrow, he's building our dreams man, he really is

omfg i liek totes agree, i'd tap dat phrophectic ass into the architectured tomorrow dreams and stuff and NE1 who disagreeeeez is teh lying.

Is networking really ever stable on any platform? I don't think I've ever used a large network on any OS that didn't cause huge problems.

The networked Mac computers where I worked seemed OK, except for intermittent internet connection issues.  Then again, I probably wasn't there long enough to see any major problems arising.  Windows always seems to perform badly when networked, but apparently they put a lot of work into improving that with 7 (again).

So wait...are you telling me that you can link different computers to each other?

For some reason my Mac can see my Windows and Linux hard drives, but my Windows and Linux machines can't see my Mac. It's really irritating.

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 12:23:49 AM
For some reason my Mac can see my Windows and Linux hard drives, but my Windows and Linux machines can't see my Mac. It's really irritating.

That sounds like something that Apple intentionally pulls on the regular.

I think it's interesting that OS loyalty is handled by the same area of the brain as religion. Reminds me of ND Tyson's talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjW5-4IiSc

The relevant part is at 6:15. Boils down to: I want someone to check what part of my brain is lighting up when I contemplate the cosmos, because when I talk about these things in this sort of excitement, it sounds like the same sorts of things that people say when they contemplate religion.

I think we've talked about the "god hole" hypothesis somewhere around here before. It's like humans seek out the most powerful explanation for everything and fill this hole with it, till something else comes around and throws it out.




Also, just to chime in, I've been using Ubuntu for 2 years and haven't looked back.  :lulz:

i dont feel very loyal to my OS. it was forced on me in the first place by the art department, but i grew to like it better than windows. but if i have to buy my next computer w/o parents helping im going back to windows for the price.
could never use linux tho im too computer stoopid.

We have a laptop on Linux and the rest are on Windows because our work stuff requires Windows software.  I run into a lot of people who are weird about Linux, when they see that I'm using it they get all excited and think I'm a fan.  Um, I'm a fan of FREE.  Linux is a free operating system, that most of the shit I use will work on, and I like the free part.

Of course my try to rerail the thread does nothing.  :lulz:

In the ancient environment being on the wrong side of an argument could get you killed, so there's probably an evolutionary reason for our silly custom of taking silly debates (like which OS is better) extremely seriously.

Same thing happens with politics (http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/), apparently.

Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on May 24, 2011, 04:41:56 AM
In the ancient environment being on the wrong side of an argument could get you killed, so there's probably an evolutionary reason for our silly custom of taking silly debates (like which OS is better) extremely seriously.

Same thing happens with politics (http://lesswrong.com/lw/gw/politics_is_the_mindkiller/), apparently.

Well well. A newbie posting a link to Less Wrong. We've got a live one.  :)

Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on May 24, 2011, 02:02:30 AM
I think it's interesting that OS loyalty is handled by the same area of the brain as religion. Reminds me of ND Tyson's talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjW5-4IiSc

The relevant part is at 6:15. Boils down to: I want someone to check what part of my brain is lighting up when I contemplate the cosmos, because when I talk about these things in this sort of excitement, it sounds like the same sorts of things that people say when they contemplate religion.

I think we've talked about the "god hole" hypothesis somewhere around here before. It's like humans seek out the most powerful explanation for everything and fill this hole with it, till something else comes around and throws it out.

Also, just to chime in, I've been using Ubuntu for 2 years and haven't looked back.  :lulz:

I also think it's very interesting. Especially more so when a discussion of the way OS preference affects the brain the same way as religion does breaks down into an argument over which OS is best.

 1The MAC is my OS; I shall not want.

2It maketh me to remix in ProTools: It leadeth me to register for iTunes.

3It updateth my iPod: It leadeth me in the paths of the righteousness of one-click purchasing for its name's sake.

4Yea, though I surf through the valley of the shadow of DutchPron, I will fear no virus: for It art with me; thy ROM and thy RAM they comfort me.

5It preparest a suite of ergonomic gadgets before me in the presence of mine competitors: It anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over (see line 4).

6Surely built-in Obsolescence and forced OS upgrades shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Help Desk for ever.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 24, 2011, 01:15:17 PM
1The MAC is my OS; I shall not want.

2It maketh me to remix in ProTools: It leadeth me to register for iTunes.

3It updateth my iPod: It leadeth me in the paths of the righteousness of one-click purchasing for its name's sake.

4Yea, though I surf through the valley of the shadow of DutchPron, I will fear no virus: for It art with me; thy ROM and thy RAM they comfort me.

5It preparest a suite of ergonomic gadgets before me in the presence of mine competitors: It anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over (see line 4).

6Surely built-in Obsolescence and forced OS upgrades shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Help Desk for ever.

:mittens:

Quote from: Canis latrans securis on May 20, 2011, 03:41:41 PM
IT'S A BUNCH OF BOXES WITH FUCKING WIRES AND SHIT111111 :argh!: :argh!: :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:

I chose *insert unix flavor here* because it tends to have a much better security model than Windows. Now that Windows 7 has finally gotten stability and decent security, I have that installed on my laptop. I would bet that my brain wouldn't light up with Linux as a religion for me... However, I have many Linux geek friends that seem to fit this idea quite well. So I wonder if its OS loyalty, or simply dogmatism (religious, technical etc) that's lighting that part of the brain up?

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on May 24, 2011, 04:42:47 PM
I chose *insert unix flavor here* because it tends to have a much better security model than Windows. Now that Windows 7 has finally gotten stability and decent security, I have that installed on my laptop. I would bet that my brain wouldn't light up with Linux as a religion for me... However, I have many Linux geek friends that seem to fit this idea quite well. So I wonder if its OS loyalty, or simply dogmatism (religious, technical etc) that's lighting that part of the brain up?

Proabably true for most people who use either or and don't really give much of a fuck. Linux and Apple are alien to me so they bug me when I have to use them but that doesn't mean I'd defend windows to the death, it just happens to be the one I know how to work. Then there's the fanboys who will get on my case about it and get mocked as a matter of principle rather than because I feel strongly about the issue. No different from someone who likes a bit of star trek, or TNG or voyager coming up against a hardcore trekkie who hates everything that isn't TOS.

Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Bottom line: nobody gives a fuck.

Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:17:48 PM


Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Agree, I suspect this area of the brain lights up the same the same way with people who get batshitcrazy about clothing brands and such.

Quote from: Aloe on May 24, 2011, 05:53:29 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:17:48 PM


Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Agree, I suspect this area of the brain lights up the same the same way with people who get batshitcrazy about clothing brands and such.

And sports teams, I'd wager.

Quote from: Luna on May 24, 2011, 05:54:09 PM

Quote from: Aloe on May 24, 2011, 05:53:29 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:17:48 PM


Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Agree, I suspect this area of the brain lights up the same the same way with people who get batshitcrazy about clothing brands and such.

And sports teams, I'd wager.

Yes yes yes. And often these things synthesize so that "sports = god = religion". They become equivalent components in the God Hole.

Quote from: Luna on May 24, 2011, 05:54:09 PM

Quote from: Aloe on May 24, 2011, 05:53:29 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:17:48 PM


Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Agree, I suspect this area of the brain lights up the same the same way with people who get batshitcrazy about clothing brands and such.

And sports teams, I'd wager.

And wagers, I bet. 

Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on May 24, 2011, 05:57:03 PM

Quote from: Luna on May 24, 2011, 05:54:09 PM

Quote from: Aloe on May 24, 2011, 05:53:29 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:17:48 PM


Some people seem to just fit this "there can only be one" mentality and whatever it is they're into, they bring rabid fundamentalism to the table.

Agree, I suspect this area of the brain lights up the same the same way with people who get batshitcrazy about clothing brands and such.

And sports teams, I'd wager.

Yes yes yes. And often these things synthesize so that "sports = god = religion". They become equivalent components in the God Hole.

Heh, "The God Hole", I like that.  (oh no is my brain lighting up...)

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

TL;DR
STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

I get that with the sports thing, myself...  Can't quite understand the dedication to watching a game, much less deciding that YOUR group of men in tight pants is better than HIS group of men in tight pants.

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

Just like science teachers cannot "not care enough to be bothered" about religionspags, computer geeks often just have to care about these stuff because we are the ones who are called all the time to use our magicks to fix their virus-infested Windows XP machines (the 2002 version, with no updates or service packs  :x).

Really the problem is not Windows, or any other OS, or even religion. The real problem is just stupid people using computers, or stupid people being religious.

Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on May 24, 2011, 07:50:24 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

Just like science teachers cannot "not care enough to be bothered" about religionspags, computer geeks often just have to care about these stuff because we are the ones who are called all the time to use our magicks to fix their virus-infested Windows XP machines (the 2002 version, with no updates or service packs  :x).

Really the problem is not Windows, or any other OS, or even religion. The real problem is just stupid people using computers, or stupid people being religious.

Yep.

Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on May 24, 2011, 07:50:24 PM

Just like science teachers cannot "not care enough to be bothered" about religionspags, computer geeks often just have to care about these stuff because we are the ones who are called all the time to use our magicks to fix their virus-infested Windows XP machines (the 2002 version, with no updates or service packs  :x).

Really the problem is not Windows, or any other OS, or even religion. The real problem is just stupid people using computers, or stupid people being religious.

I had to analyze a business, a FUCKING BUSINESS WHERE PEOPLE SPEND MONEY AND INFORMATION IS STORED, that had a Windows 97 database server.  This was just 5 months ago.  They wanted to know why software with cool shit just wouldn't work for them.  :horrormirth:

Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on May 24, 2011, 07:50:24 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

Just like science teachers cannot "not care enough to be bothered" about religionspags, computer geeks often just have to care about these stuff because we are the ones who are called all the time to use our magicks to fix their virus-infested Windows XP machines (the 2002 version, with no updates or service packs  :x).

Really the problem is not Windows, or any other OS, or even religion. The real problem is just stupid people using computers, or stupid people being religious.

If you think that stupid people installing obvious trojan for the third time this week is some kind of problem then you just aint charging enough :lulz:

Quote from: Luna on May 24, 2011, 07:46:17 PM

Quote from: Nigel on May 24, 2011, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 24, 2011, 05:24:16 PM
Not true! Many people really do give a huge fuck and it's our god given prerogative to rip the living piss out of them whenever possible  :evil:

They're religionspags, and I don't care enough to be bothered.

I get that with the sports thing, myself...  Can't quite understand the dedication to watching a game, much less deciding that YOUR group of men in tight pants is better than HIS group of men in tight pants.

Pro sports (in America, at least) seem to serve as a form of surrogate tribal warfare. The teams represent cities/geographical areas and if your city's team beats the other city's team on the field, you get to spend a few minutes feeling like your tribe just fucked up shop all over that city's tribe.

ETA: what I'm trying to say is that following a team might be a bad metaphor for the concept of the God Hole. A better one would be following a particular athlete, like my generation did with Jordan or today's kids do with LeBron.

My OS is an abacus.

/hipster

I was so into Windows 7 before anyone heard about it. Now it's sold out, and I can't use it anymore.

I want to see brain scans of these same people imagining themselves using a different OS.  :evil:

Quote from: Telarus on May 25, 2011, 07:54:10 AM
I want to see brain scans of these same people imagining themselves using a different OS.  :evil:

The Hell Hole?

I want to see brain scans of you spags after you just got Googled. (http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_6231690)