My understanding is we're not supposed to discriminate against people of different religions solely because they're a part of a certain faith. And generally I agree.
We all have people in our lives who do not share our values, morals, silly beliefs (just about everyone has SOME kind of silly belief floating around). Sometimes their funny hats are simply shaped differently than ours. And that's OK.
You can't go around assigning unwarranted values to people just because they believe in fairy-tales. I can't go around saying "I fucking HATE Christians. All of them, they oughtta be launched into the sun right along with Mac users." My sister is one for chrissake. A Christian, that is.
And yet...
Sitting at home with various progeny:
"Hey guess what?" says Mah Boy#1, age 5, without looking up from a coloring book.
"What?" says I.
"You should choose your friends carefully."
"Now that is some stellar advice, buddy. Did you learn that at school?"
"Yep! And you know what else?"
"What?"
"When you look at other people's private parts God turns your heart black." He says.
Neither words nor smilies can properly explain my emotion at this time.
I explain to him, at length, that that simply isn't true and he was being lied to. Adults can look at other adult's private parts when they both want to (he starts shaking his head violently, I persist) but kids cannot. They need to wait until blah blah blah.
He wonders why he was lied to.
"Because they don't think you're smart enough to understand this, buddy. But I think you are VERY smart and want you to understand this."
SO, not a little bit but very much enraged I go to the Korean Open-Door Presbyterian daycare* called ...wait for it...Morning Star Christian School** and ask the teacher very calmly "What the shit?"
The teacher says her hands are tied, she doesn't agree with it but that's what they have written out in the books they teach from, the ones the school issues or uses from a network of Korean Open-Door Presbyterian churches I suppose.
This place, much like other churches I am very familiar with in town, instituionlizes needless shame from the very moment children are capable of understanding it.
And sure, if Wiccans had enough organization or focus or sheer numbers they would probably accomplish the same just different. See: points raised in gender thread RE: ending up eating your own bullshit.
But they DON'T. Even if it's because they CAN'T they DON'T right now.
So I don't worry about Wiccans. Or other minor and/or stupid religions. I worry about the one's with numbers and money and a history of fucking shit up while saving you. I would never want to take away their right to teach children that an invisible man in the sky will blacken your heart and turn you into an evil subhuman because you dared to look at another person's junk. That would be wrong, right?
But they genuinely scare me.
The lady that runs that daycare is the nicest and smiliest person you could ever meet. Until she saw me reading a book on Tarot a few years ago. That smile dropped like a sack of bass. What would she do if she had the opportunity to impose those values on all aspects of my life? What kind of real life consequences does an imagination (or lack of) like that dream up for the black-hearted? History is pretty clear there, humans of all types and faiths do all kinds of fucked up shit.
I treat them all equally, but I fear some more than others. And I suppose that's discrimination too.
I'm OK with that.
OR KILL ME.
*Look, I know I get to choose where my kids go to daycare. Except I can't. It's not just my choice, and that coupled with convenience (not mine) laziness (again, not mine) and money (sigh) I have to use this daycare right now. I would love a different one but...at least he's safe at this one. Quality, affordable non-cult daycare with two openings is hard to find in Anchorage, kay? Plus, this one is going to public school this fall where I'm sure the quality of his education will improve. Ha. Ha.
**What in the FUCK is up with that? Their translations can NOT be that bad? No Christian, no Human is so stupid as to...well, nevermind.
Well done Alty.
Originally I think it was the controlling leading the blind that caused this. After so many generations it has become the blind leading the blind.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/Marburger/STFUChemical.jpg)
Thanks Charley!
Ugh don't get me started on blind leading the blind. I have new management at my work.
UNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG.
LMNO: That's what happens to perverts.
:hashishim:
MORNING STAR CHRISTIAN SCHOOL!?
I almost want to see it when I visit the city, because that's hilariously stupid.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 25, 2011, 08:11:59 PM
MORNING STAR CHRISTIAN SCHOOL!?
I almost want to see it when I visit the city, because that's hilariously stupid.
What am I missing there? :?
Quote from: Nigel on May 25, 2011, 08:29:01 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 25, 2011, 08:11:59 PM
MORNING STAR CHRISTIAN SCHOOL!?
I almost want to see it when I visit the city, because that's hilariously stupid.
What am I missing there? :?
Lucifer was the Morning Star before the fall.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 25, 2011, 08:31:55 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 25, 2011, 08:29:01 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 25, 2011, 08:11:59 PM
MORNING STAR CHRISTIAN SCHOOL!?
I almost want to see it when I visit the city, because that's hilariously stupid.
What am I missing there? :?
Lucifer was the Morning Star before the fall.
Oh! :lulz: That's hilarious!
Who is the Fallen Star that brings death, (the reflection or son of Fallen angel Belial), the son of "Morning" (Sun God Baal/Satan), the bright "Morning Star" Lucifer.
Rev 22:16
Also see WORMWOOD for giggles.
I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things in the churches. I am the root and the spawn of David, and I am the bright Morning Star.
:lulz:
I see potential trolling material with this conflict.
Heh....
morningstar, that's awesome.
we actually have an 'angel of light' church here in town...
regarding your situation, that sucks, and i'm sorry to hear it.
we send our kiddos to a preschool that is at some methodist church, but they don't really preach religion. only thing that's happened so far is my son asked if Jesus made our car. i said 'no, toyota did', and he seemed satisfied with that.
oh! oh... we also have a church named 'Overcoming Faith Church', which i always thought was odd sounding...
Well fuck, I'm seeing these guys in a whole new light then!
http://www.morningstarfarms.com/
I've been using that Jesus is Lucifer thing for a while, since they are both the morning star.
They have some other things in common as well so long as you don't mind LO5ing it a bit.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 26, 2011, 08:37:16 PM
They have some other things in common as well so long as you don't mind LO5ing it a bit.
I love doing that cos it's so easy to sound knowledgeable and well-researched while completely spinning bullshit off the top of your head.
eg. Lucifer was the bearer of light, ie. the sun. When proto-christianity was trying to establish a foothold it was up against established pagan, heliocentric religion so it followed naturally that the sun would be demonised to this end, hence the OT fall. Later on, still attempting to supplant pagan religious festivals (largely centered around the solar calender) the new testament jesus was written into these existing festivals, playing the part of the son (there's a reason "son" and "sun" both sound the same.
truth is pointless, it's like fighting fire with fire - you have to fight bullshit with even more bullshit :lulz:
The Process Church of the Final Judgement are also fond of that idea. As they are of serial killers and sacrificing dogs, which may not make them the best example for comparison.
I hate you cain! Just when I think I've plumbed the depths of religious stupidity you throw something like that at me :argh!:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2011, 09:42:17 PM
I hate you cain! Just when I think I've plumbed the depths of religious stupidity you throw something like that at me :argh!:
There is no bottom to stupid, Pent.
STFU and leave me to my blissful denial!
They were a Scientology splinter group who believed "Satan will become reconciled to Christ, and they will come together at the end of the world to judge humanity, Christ to judge and Satan to execute judgment."
And that
QuoteAt Xtul was the first 'channeling' of God. After Xtul, Jehovah was the only recognised God. Later, with Jehovah, Lucifer and Satan were recognised as "The Three Great Gods of the Universe" and Christ as the Emissary to the Gods. The Three Great Gods represent three basic human patterns of reality:
Jehovah, the wrathful God of vengeance and retribution, demands discipline, courage and ruthlessness, and a single-minded dedication to duty, purity and self-denial.
Lucifer, the Light Bearer, urges us to enjoy life to the full, to value success in human terms, to be gentle and kind and loving, and to live in peace and harmony with one another. Man's apparent inability to value success without descending into greed, jealousy and an exaggerated sense of his own importance, has brought the God Lucifer into disrepute. He has become mistakenly identified with Satan.
Satan, the receiver of transcendent souls and corrupted bodies, instills in us two directly opposite qualities; at one end an urge to rise above all human and physical needs and appetites, to become all soul and no body, all spirit and no mind, and at the other end a desire to sink beneath all human codes of behavior, and to wallow in a morass of violence, lunacy and excessive physical indulgence. But it is the lower end of Satan's nature that men fear, which is why Satan, by whatever name, is seen as the Adversary.
They were associated with Charlie Manson and, reportedly, with the Son of Sam murders that Berkowitz claims he did not do.
:lulz:
Pent, your optimism is showing again.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2011, 09:44:05 PM
STFU and leave me to my blissful denial!
Maybe this'll help...
(http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/571463/191680)
All better!
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 26, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
:lulz:
Pent, your optimism is showing again.
I try like fuck to keep it in check but, evry now and again it gets the better of me.
I AM WEAK :x
Quote from: Cain on May 26, 2011, 09:46:18 PM
They were a Scientology splinter group ....
ohhhh oh! that's fantastic! the rest of the information is really great gravy, but that right thar is a beautiful phrase...
i have to go meditate on it for a while
I'm liking the Lucifer = Venus connection, because it means Satanists are really tree-hugging fertility goddess worshippers. :lulz:
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
Yeah I get that. I'm of the opinion that they're a minority but that's based on the relatively few self professed satanists I've met. Maybe I hang out in the wrong social circles or something. Are there actually a lot of satanists about?
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
To be honest, if all they're doing is using Satan as a metaphor, they really could have chosen a better mascot.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 27, 2011, 02:24:15 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
To be honest, if all they're doing is using Satan as a metaphor, they really could have chosen a better mascot.
:mittens:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 27, 2011, 02:24:15 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
To be honest, if all they're doing is using Satan as a metaphor, they really could have chosen a better mascot.
But they were going for shock value.
Personally I always liked the aesthetic. Pentgrams and goats heads and spooky demons and shit but as a philosophy I found it lacking. Even the (arguably) more sensible COS shit just struck me as ego tripping on dimebags of Nietzsche :|
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
Yeah I get that. I'm of the opinion that they're a minority but that's based on the relatively few self professed satanists I've met. Maybe I hang out in the wrong social circles or something. Are there actually a lot of satanists about?
A lot is a relative term. There's enough that they have distinct factions, but there's almost undoubtedly less of them than there are Discordians or Sub Genius or Toltec Shamans or Rastafarians (just to name a few relatively small religions)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 27, 2011, 08:45:39 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Satanists are christians. They worship a character in the same fairy story. Doesn't matter if your favourite is kirk or khan, you're still a trekkie, right?
This is arguable. it's a position I tend to agree with, but it is only literally accurate for theistic Satanists. Most Satanists are Church of Satan style Satanists who worship themselves and use Satan as a metaphor for that selfish part of themselves. They don't actually believe in an external Satanic deity.
Yeah I get that. I'm of the opinion that they're a minority but that's based on the relatively few self professed satanists I've met. Maybe I hang out in the wrong social circles or something. Are there actually a lot of satanists about?
A lot is a relative term. There's enough that they have distinct factions, but there's almost undoubtedly less of them than there are Discordians or Sub Genius or Toltec Shamans or Rastafarians (just to name a few relatively small religions)
You think there are more Discordians that Satanists?
Oh, easy. Discordianism is much more convenient to practice and more socially acceptable, ergo you can pretty much guarantee there are more of us.
Quote from: Cain on May 26, 2011, 09:40:01 PM
The Process Church of the Final Judgement are also fond of that idea. As they are of serial killers and sacrificing dogs, which may not make them the best example for comparison.
Didn't they become some sort of animal rescue organisation?
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 27, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
Oh, easy. Discordianism is much more convenient to practice and more socially acceptable, ergo you can pretty much guarantee there are more of us.
So what you are saying is basically Satanists just have better publicity? Because I am positive in a random poll of the general public most know of Satanism but I rarely meet anyone who knows what Discordinaism is. Until I enlighten them that is.... :evil:
Quote from: Khara on May 27, 2011, 07:17:46 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on May 27, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
Oh, easy. Discordianism is much more convenient to practice and more socially acceptable, ergo you can pretty much guarantee there are more of us.
So what you are saying is basically Satanists just have better publicity? Because I am positive in a random poll of the general public most know of Satanism but I rarely meet anyone who knows what Discordinaism is. Until I enlighten them that is.... :evil:
Christians love to talk about Satanists, they've been doing it since at least the middle ages.
And as someone once said, to be hated cordially...