Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Scribbly on May 26, 2011, 09:23:29 AM

Title: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Scribbly on May 26, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
I'm sure I read about this on here somewhere first, but I can't find the thread if I did...

Amazing documentary by Adam Curtis about ... well quite a lot of things, but broadly the financial crisis, the thinking which led to it, and how Ayn Rand's ideology was involved. I thought a bit more time on how the idea was sold to most people would have been good (it was briefly mentioned that Atlas Shrugged was found to be the second most important book in America, behind the Bible, but it seemed a bit schizophrenic in explaining how it got there whilst Rand became irrelevant), and I would have liked him to expand his final thoughts a bit, but it is still a very impressive documentary.

Part 1 is available on the BBC iPlayer for the britspags here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011k45f/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_Love_and_Power/

Part 2 is airing on the 30th.

The notion that there is essentially a third world country living inside the borders of the US brought about by the economic elite isn't a new one, but I don't think I've seen it laid out so eloquently before.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: MMIX on May 26, 2011, 01:53:23 PM
OOh that was fun. Great find D_S. Looking forward to part 2
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on May 26, 2011, 05:36:39 PM
Excellent, love some Adam Curtis.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on May 27, 2011, 07:03:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5jImWRREc&feature=related

^Youtube version for Americans/3rd worlders.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on May 29, 2011, 10:40:27 AM
Part 2 tomorrow! !!!
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 29, 2011, 07:31:21 PM
Pizzicato Five!
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Kai on May 29, 2011, 08:56:28 PM
Some of those people near the beginning of the Silicon Valley segment sound like classic cases of psychopathy.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Kai on May 29, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
Cain, how close to truth/wrong is this documentary, in your opinion?

Edit: Teaser: How the idea of an ecosystem was created by the machines.


...

I think my brain just exploded from stupid.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 07, 2011, 10:49:53 AM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on May 29, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
Cain, how close to truth/wrong is this documentary, in your opinion?

Edit: Teaser: How the idea of an ecosystem was created by the machines.


...

I think my brain just exploded from stupid.

Just watch (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq0xVuRG4ng"), it's a hell of a ride. Adam tends to point out a lot that some ideas come into vogue because they seem analogous to "other things", like cybernetic theories of ecology became kind of a big deal because they made people think of computers and circuits, not because they were any good. Think about Libertarianism and "social darwinism", how because "Nature Red in Tooth and Claw", and because "Evolution = Science", then "Life's a bitch, get used to it poors". He likes to point out instances where the scientific veneer of a genuine fact gets rubbed off onto unrelated fields, because one theory resembles another, true one from another field entirely.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Scribbly on June 07, 2011, 11:00:09 AM
The ecosystem teaser at the end of episode one made me go  :? a bit too.

The actual episode was very convincing, though. I don't know how accurate it was, because I don't know a lot about the history of biology. But he made a convincing case basically implying that the initial concept was flawed, though not entirely wrong, and the metaphor was expanded far beyond the point where it was useful in various areas.

Also, I laughed out loud at the hippies. It was great.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 07, 2011, 11:31:11 AM
Episode 3 is about the Congo.

Wow. Holy shit. Check this shit out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJYkkxh0rk&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_907085 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJYkkxh0rk&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_907085)
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Scribbly on June 07, 2011, 11:33:06 AM
I'm really looking forward to seeing episode three tonight.  :D
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Jasper on June 07, 2011, 04:25:21 PM
I saw some of this series recently, and I had never until now appreciated how much I ought to really hate Rand.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 07, 2011, 04:38:10 PM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on May 29, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
Cain, how close to truth/wrong is this documentary, in your opinion?

Edit: Teaser: How the idea of an ecosystem was created by the machines.


...

I think my brain just exploded from stupid.

Haven't watched yet, so cannot comment.

However, Curtis is generally very good.  I have all his previous documentaries on my HD somewhere, and I'm frequently impressed with how he manages to get ideas into the context of the time and their larger impact on society.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cramulus on June 08, 2011, 04:01:42 PM
These are excellent! Really enjoying the way he constructs this narrative.

The episode on ecology was fascinating. He outlines how the science of ecology changed over time, basically moving from "Nature is ordered and balanced" to "Nature is chaotic and unpredictable". And how those ideas have impacted the growth of our civilization.


I loved the section about the geodesic dome communes, and how that idea basically fell apart. They wanted to create an egalitarian society where everybody could be free and equal without needing laws or hierarchy... and they created the opposite - a situation where the strong personalities dominated and there was no institution to resist them. (remind anybody else of forum culture?  :lol:)


The one about Ayn Rand was fascinating too. I love how he wove together these "power and love"... the montage of heart broken Ayn Rand and Clinton/Monica Lewinsky was arranged really well. I also did not realize that Alan Greenspan was an oldschool Randite -- like, he hung out at her house and was part of her reading circle. Rand's love affair was also a piece of the Rand puzzle which I did not know about. Man, I really do have to read her work some time...



Thanks for posting these, I never would have known about them. I am showing them to my roommates, one night at a time, and they're loving it too.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 08, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
Cain, can I dump linx to more Adam Curtis in here or is this just AWOBMOLB... I watched his Bearings' Bank doc recently, that was a good one.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 08, 2011, 06:43:55 PM
Go for it, you don't need my permission.  So long as they're on Youtube or something, of course.

Personally, I think everyone should watch his Power of Nightmares, The Mayfair Set and The Living Dead, at the very minimum.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cramulus on June 08, 2011, 06:52:56 PM
if they're anywhere near as good as All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace, I definitely will. What are those ones about, and which should I start with?
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 08, 2011, 06:59:06 PM
the Power of Nightmares is in part about how Neo-Conservatism and Islamism are co-parasitic. Since it's a familiar subject, I'd start with that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ)
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 08, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on June 08, 2011, 06:52:56 PM
if they're anywhere near as good as All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace, I definitely will. What are those ones about, and which should I start with?

The Power of Nightmares is about Al-Qaeda, the Neoconservatives and the ideological move from promising Utopia to promising protection from Dystopia.

The Mayfair set is about 4 men who set the tone for much of the Thatcher years, commando turned mercenary Col. David Sterling, investment advice writer Jim Slater, how corporate asset-stripper and raider James Goldsmith became one of the wealthiest men in the world and the last one focused on the former owner of Harrods, Tiny Rowland.

The Living Dead is about how history and memory (both national and individual) are manipulated by politicans, such as repressed memories from WWII and mind control programs by the CIA.

Also of interest are The Century of the Self, which details how psychiatry, advertising, propaganda and politics are linked, The Trap, which criticizes the abuses of game theory and simplistic notions of freedom, and Pandora's Box, which is about the consequences of technocratic rationalism.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 09, 2011, 07:25:39 AM
You forgot "25 Million Pounds"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaCo_bPePw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaCo_bPePw)

"Barings Bank (1762 to 1995) was the oldest merchant bank in London until its collapse in 1995 after one of the bank's employees, Nick Leeson, lost £827 million ($1.3 billion) due to speculative investing, primarily in futures contracts, at the bank's Singapore office."
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 09, 2011, 12:52:39 PM
I haven't actually seen that one yet, so I decided not to comment.

I didn't include It Felt Like A Kiss for the same reason.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Slyph on June 09, 2011, 01:52:52 PM
It Felt Like A Kiss is p.short, I think it was shown in a gallery space and was only part of a larger "project" but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 09, 2011, 01:55:30 PM
Also, Kai, I watched the first two last night.

As far as I can tell, he was 100% correct in his description of what went down in the 90s.  I've read Stiglitz's own account of the affair, as well as more general books dealing with the 1998 Asian Crisis (as it came to be known) and he's absolutely right on that score.  Couldn't say about the second one much, aside from the Club of Rome, would consider that more your area of expertise (I will say though, like the environmentalists in the documentary, I am inherently suspicious of claims to self-regulating systems and "balance", for much the same reasons.  I'm sympathetic to certain strands of environmentalism, but my suspicions pre-date that).
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 09, 2011, 01:56:42 PM
Quote from: Slyph on June 09, 2011, 01:52:52 PM
It Felt Like A Kiss is p.short, I think it was shown in a gallery space and was only part of a larger "project" but I may be wrong.

Yeah, it was a mixed media project.  I have some clips from it though, which were part of a larger Adam Curtis torrent I downloaded a couple of years back.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Rumckle on June 13, 2011, 02:35:10 PM
I just watched The Trap (Curtis' 2006/7 doco) over the weekend. It was pretty well put together, good view of how our conception of Freedom has changed, and how our politicians keep falling into the traps of the past in the pursuit of progress and Freedom.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on June 13, 2011, 05:28:59 PM
Am I the only one who felt like the last episode of Machines was a little bit rambling? Not that it wasnt good, it just didnt feel like it had as concise of a message as the other two.
Title: Re: All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
Post by: Cain on June 13, 2011, 05:37:07 PM
It did jump over the place a bit more than the previous two.  AIDS!  GORILLAS!  GAME THEORY!  GOD!  DAWKINS!  DIANE FOSSEY!  The thread was still there, but it's harder to pick out.