I recently had a brainwave with regard to the relationship between evolution and unusual sexuality and devised an experiment to test my idea.
I do not actually intend to perform this experiment; Not only is the proposed experimental procedure is unethical, but also Any attempt to do so would likely result in the experimenters being lynched by an angry mob and/or sued for every cent that they have.
I feel compelled to post it here anyway because I feel it is too brilliant (and delightfully insane) to discard out of hand...
(And because I believe that the perceived correlations mentioned in the abstract may actually be valid)
I need volunteers for a highly unethical social experiment, The deatils of which will follow:
I recently realized that certain traits and behaviors which are seen in certain species of fish, reptiles, and other animals bear a striking similarity to transexualism. In certain species of Bluegill Sunfish (http://www.springerlink.com/content/l3t41658630x1835/), for example, some of the males appear to be female in both physical appearance AND behavior, and as a result of this are able to reproduce with females that are already associated with another male. This shows proof of concept for the idea that under the correct circumstances it can be evolutionarily advantageous for a male to conduct themself like a female; If similar potential advantages could be shown to exist in humans it could potentially disprove the idea that transexualism is "unnatural". I have devised an experiment that could potentially test this.
I need several non-GLBT individuals, and an equal number of transexuals who have not had surgery or hormone treatment, for an experiment that will attempt to prove that transexualism is naturally occurring and that this is not at odds with the theory of evolution.
Each subject will attempt to seduce the significant other of a straight member of their natural sex and report the results of their efforts. If my hypothesis is correct, then the transexuals' attempts should enjoy a greater window of time before the markrealizes that the subject is trying to move in on their S.O.
Refrences
http://www.springerlink.com/content/l3t41658630x1835/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/l3t41658630x1835/)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v284/n5756/abs/284546a0.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v284/n5756/abs/284546a0.html)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/l3t41658630x1835/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/l3t41658630x1835/)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v284/n5756/abs/284546a0.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v284/n5756/abs/284546a0.html)
http://www.mendeley.com/research/female-mimicry-in-male-bluegill-sunfish-a-genetic-polymorphism- (http://www.mendeley.com/research/female-mimicry-in-male-bluegill-sunfish-a-genetic-polymorphism-)
http://www.mendeley.com/research/female-mimicry-in-male-bluegill-sunfish-a-genetic-polymorphism- (http://www.mendeley.com/research/female-mimicry-in-male-bluegill-sunfish-a-genetic-polymorphism-)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4010782 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4010782)
(http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6861/full/414267a0.html)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6861/full/414267a0.html (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6861/full/414267a0.html)
(http://www.earthwatch.org/pressreleases/newsandevents/2001_press_releases/12_12_2001_snakes.html) http://www.earthwatch.org/pressreleases/newsandevents/2001_press_releases/12_12_2001_snakes.html (http://www.earthwatch.org/pressreleases/newsandevents/2001_press_releases/12_12_2001_snakes.html)
What are you using for a control group?
Also, how do you plan to address the anger/betrayal issues that could develop if the "mark" decides that his SO is actually interested?
The straight volunteers are the control group.
The betrayal issues are why I described the idea multiple times as "unethical".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 13, 2011, 08:49:20 PM
What are you using for a control group?
Also, how do you plan to address the anger/betrayal issues that could develop if the "mark" decides that his SO is actually interested?
It's all fun and SCIENCE! until someone gets to second base.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 08:51:50 PM
The straight volunteers are the control group.
The betrayal issues are why I described the idea multiple times as "unethical".
So, you have decided to potentially wreck lives for your own amusement.
Die in a fire, you asshole. Life is rough enough on people already, without shitheads like you making it worse.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 13, 2011, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 08:51:50 PM
The straight volunteers are the control group.
The betrayal issues are why I described the idea multiple times as "unethical".
So, you have decided to potentially wreck lives for your own amusement.
Die in a fire, you asshole. Life is rough enough on people already, without shitheads like you making it worse.
This.
Quote from: Luna on June 13, 2011, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 13, 2011, 08:53:48 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 08:51:50 PM
The straight volunteers are the control group.
The betrayal issues are why I described the idea multiple times as "unethical".
So, you have decided to potentially wreck lives for your own amusement.
Die in a fire, you asshole. Life is rough enough on people already, without shitheads like you making it worse.
This.
The first paragraph of my post stated that I did not seriously expect to perform this experiment; I don't want to spend eternity rolling a rock up a hill or being repeatedly shattered like the T-1000 in the Great-Lotus Naraka or something like that. Since people apparently don't read I have since edited the topic post to make this fact more clear.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 09:38:57 PM
The first paragraph of my post stated that I did not seriously expect to perform this experiment; I don't want to spend eternity rolling a rock up a hill or something. Since people apparently don't read I have since edited the topic post to make this fact more clear.
Then what, exactly, were you after?
I mean, before the edit, you said "I need volunteers for a highly unethical social experiment,", which implied that you did, in fact, intend to perform this "experiment".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 13, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 09:38:57 PM
The first paragraph of my post stated that I did not seriously expect to perform this experiment; I don't want to spend eternity rolling a rock up a hill or something. Since people apparently don't read I have since edited the topic post to make this fact more clear.
Then what, exactly, were you after?
I mean, before the edit, you said "I need volunteers for a highly unethical social experiment,", which implied that you did, in fact, intend to perform this "experiment".
That line is actually still in there, but it always came after the disclaimer. I more-or-less copy and pasted the experiment description (everything excepty the links) from something I had typed up in a different context (it came from a normally private and uncensored journal of my thoughts. I was trying to devise a way to prove the correlation I had perceived between human and ichthyo/reptilian behavior, and part of it kind of wrote itself into a format similar to the ads for experimental studies that I constantly see whenever I take the subway)
Come to think of it, maybe i should actually draw it up like one of those ads and post it to the operation mindfuck forum so people could printy them out and post them places...
...The listed phone number on the ad could actually be for a phone-sex line or something, given the nature of the proposal it would probably take people a while to realze that something was amiss :lulz:
Or I could repost the idea, without the disclaimer, in the Operation Mindfuck subforum and troll operation mindfuck...
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 13, 2011, 10:04:21 PM
Or I could repost the idea, without the disclaimer, in the Operation Mindfuck subforum and troll operation mindfuck...
That'd be new. :boring:
I have yet to meet a convincing transsexual who would have the self confidence to do this.
Oddly enough I know plenty of unconvincing transsexuals who probably would try this.
If you wanted to replicate the natural behavior, why transexuals? Why not just men looking like women?
I suspect you could look through real life cases to see how it's worked out in the past but I suspect if it was any good there'd be bestselling pickup book on the sunfish technique.
You could make the argument of the seemingly taken/gay male as a related technique, based on the animal behaviour described.
Why not send out a questionnaire instead, asking straight women in relationships if they are sexually attracted to transsexuals and on a scale of 1 to 10 of how likely they are to cheat on their boyfriend/spouse with a transsexual, and if they had ever done so before.
Then, send a questionnaire out to transsexuals asking if they are sexually attracted to females in heterosexual relationships, and on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely they think they are going to snag heterosexual females in relationships, and if they had ever done so before.
It removes the unethical experimenting and still provides you with statistical data to work with. I imagine your results will look something like "no, 1, no except that one time but I was drunk and in college." You would then have to scrap your hypothesis.
ETA: Have the first question a 1 to 10 as well, phrased, "how sexually attracted to...." And add a last question of how many females/transsexuals they were able to have affairs with.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on June 18, 2011, 12:57:15 PM
If you wanted to replicate the natural behavior, why transexuals? Why not just men looking like women?
I suspect you could look through real life cases to see how it's worked out in the past but I suspect if it was any good there'd be bestselling pickup book on the sunfish technique.
You could make the argument of the seemingly taken/gay male as a related technique, based on the animal behaviour described.
I agree with Dingo. I still think your hypothesis is flawed and going to have to be abandoned, even with these changes.
Problem with a questionaire: ask a woman if a particular pick up technique will work, she'll say no.
Watch somebody apply it on her, and you're much more likely to see it work.
I mean, same applies to asking men or anyone else, would you fall for this sales con; they will say no. We're so entranced in our own sense of autonomy we'll deny that somebody else has made the moves on us and reframe it as 'it's just what I wanted'.
Hopefully I've been clear enough with my point but I await the carnage anyway.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on June 19, 2011, 12:36:48 AM
Problem with a questionaire: ask a woman if a particular pick up technique will work, she'll say no.
Watch somebody apply it on her, and you're much more likely to see it work.
I mean, same applies to asking men or anyone else, would you fall for this sales con; they will say no. We're so entranced in our own sense of autonomy we'll deny that somebody else has made the moves on us and reframe it as 'it's just what I wanted'.
Hopefully I've been clear enough with my point but I await the carnage anyway.
I completely agree.