Picture Unrelated:
(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110626.gif)
Okay now the actual post:
from http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/06/chris-hedges-global-revolution-must-begin-in-america/
Pulitzer-winning author and former New York Times reporter Chris Hedges has a revolutionary worldview. In the video below, his recent "Endgame Strategy" piece for AdBusters (http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/96/chris-hedges-revolution-in-america.html) is read aloud by George Atherton.
His conclusions are chilling, but not entirely hopeless.
"We will have to take care of ourselves," he wrote. "We will have to rapidly create small, monastic communities where we can sustain and feed ourselves. It will be up to us to keep alive the intellectual, moral and cultural values the corporate state has attempted to snuff out. It is either that or become drones and serfs in a global corporate dystopia. It is not much of a choice. But at least we still have one."
youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ImSzACcQ368
I tried really hard to hate that article just because it was on Adbusters.
but, I failed. Good read, though it's definitely planted hard in "preaching to the choir" territory.
I especially liked this part:
QuoteOur political vocabulary continues to sustain the illusion of participatory democracy. The Democrats and the Liberal Party in Canada offer minor palliatives and a feel-your-pain language to mask the cruelty and goals of the corporate state. Neofeudalism will be cemented into place whether it is delivered by Democrats and the Liberals, who are pushing us there at 60 miles an hour, or by Republicans and the Conservatives, who are barreling toward it at 100 miles an hour.
"By fostering an illusion among the powerless classes that it can make their interests a priority," Sheldon Wolin writes, "the Democratic Party pacifies and thereby defines the style of an opposition party in an inverted totalitarian system." The Democrats and the Liberals are always able to offer up a least-worst alternative while, in fact, doing little or nothing to thwart the march toward corporate collectivism.
The article itself is well-written, and it carries the ring of cold, hard, capital-T Truth.
Then I read the comments. :crankey:
Oh, I didn't make THAT mistake. I mean, it's fucking Adbusters. Kalle Lasn is like the Michael Jordan of douchbaggishness.
Well that was depressing. While parts of it rang true regarding corporations, lobbyists, the two man con...etc the whole doomsday vibe can suck dick. Im not bought into that reality as there is still much potential and possibility left within our species. How do I know this? I look in the fuckin mirror.
My problem with Hedges is that his solution sucks. Small, self-sustainable monastic communities sound great in theory...but you know who else tried that, in the 60s and 70s? Yeah, exactly. And look how that worked out. They went off into the wilderness to live a life without coercion and ended up replicating the excesses and hierarchy-obsession of the societies they seeked to escape from.
I mean, this idea is nothing new, either. A New Dark Age is coming, and in the old Dark Age, the monks kept the academic and literary traditions of the preceding society alive, so clearly we must emulate them.
Ever seen life in a monastery? It ain't pretty. The Abbot's word is law and you go to bed tired and aching every night, you get so little food it is surprising more monks don't have visions of God and the discipline is makes the army look sloppy.
Hedges' solution is hardly a revolution. If anything, it seems like running away.
well, he does say that it is a shitty choice...
i don't think he was trying to glorify it.
He doesn't even consider other options, though. He spends 16 paragraphs on setting out the problem, and only one on giving a "solution". One without assertion or support, or any time given to any other possibilities. Given Adbuster's disdain for the tactics of marketing, that right there is a classic marketing tactic.
although he doesn't use the term solution, i see what you are saying, and definitely agree.
smacks of defeatism, and perhaps dystopian fetishism(is that the right word?), which i have to moderate in myself, too.
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 01, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
Complete household self-sustainability? Maybe it's another form of running away, smaller than community style, but I believe it's possible, especially using technology and automation, to build a home that produces everything needed for survival, plus some luxury. Automated food-growing systems, though I'd miss meat for sure, automated clean energy generation, etc etc. Would take a somewhat involved survivalist skill set, and a good amount of money for preparation, but once built and running it could work out well. I'm thinking houseboats, to facilitate travel and remove the necessity of buying land. The idea would have to be fleshed out a lot more, but I think it could have merit.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming.
Quote from: trix on July 01, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 01, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
Complete household self-sustainability? Maybe it's another form of running away, smaller than community style, but I believe it's possible, especially using technology and automation, to build a home that produces everything needed for survival, plus some luxury. Automated food-growing systems, though I'd miss meat for sure, automated clean energy generation, etc etc. Would take a somewhat involved survivalist skill set, and a good amount of money for preparation, but once built and running it could work out well. I'm thinking houseboats, to facilitate travel and remove the necessity of buying land. The idea would have to be fleshed out a lot more, but I think it could have merit.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming.
The problem with building sustainable homes is that clever technology requires the services of clever people.And clever people are expensive to employ.
I don't know about other places but in Australia to build a home like this is quite possible. You can even recycle your own grey water onsite and reuse all your black water as dried fertiliser. You can negate the need for rubbish collection services and get enough solar power to not only keep you running but feed some back into the grid in the high sunshine periods of the year
.But in order to do it you need to invest probably $1M in materials, labour, Planning Permits and Technical Services.
Until they give real incentives in terms of subsidising clean technology and penalising dirty ones not enough people will be able to invest in the clean ones.
Also with the Tyranny of Distance thing that operates here, all ot of the best materials and technology need to be sourced from overseas as we have no manufacturing industry left at all. So the emissions from getting my Italian, German, American and Brazillian bits and bobs over here have already kicked a fucking great hole in the ozone layer before I've turned my first sod.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 01, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
This.
Unless I misunderstood the post.
Are you saying here that a revolution of any sorts is FUBAR?
If so-I sadly agree.
Some may ask-why then are you still around in these parts or similar parts. Well-Wishful thinking. Maybe. Or what you said a surrender of sorts.
Fuck --this is now depressing me.
Quote from: trix on July 01, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 01, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
Complete household self-sustainability? Maybe it's another form of running away, smaller than community style, but I believe it's possible, especially using technology and automation, to build a home that produces everything needed for survival, plus some luxury. Automated food-growing systems, though I'd miss meat for sure, automated clean energy generation, etc etc. Would take a somewhat involved survivalist skill set, and a good amount of money for preparation, but once built and running it could work out well. I'm thinking houseboats, to facilitate travel and remove the necessity of buying land. The idea would have to be fleshed out a lot more, but I think it could have merit.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming.
It's not possible. It's also not desirable, do you really want to withdraw from all interaction with other humans aside from your own household?
I prefer the though of withdrawing into a resilient community to a revolution anyway.
A revolution involves a lot of fighting and killing, and dragging people into a lifestyle that they do not desire. Plus it usually ends up with tyrants in control anyway.
I don't need the entire country to live the way I want to live. I just need me and my friends to do so, along with some other communities that we can trade with.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 01, 2011, 07:51:48 PM
What are some other solutions? hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.
I don't understand the whole concept of WANTING to isolate/insulate yourself from, well, the way the world is and always has been.
I mean, yeah, it's probably not ideal. But it also never will be and never has been. And there are enough people out there enjoying their lives and creating awesomeness in spite of the Big Bad World that I have to believe that those who seek to "drop out" are mostly just pussies.
In fact, I'm going to posit that most of humanity's awesome and/or worthwhile achievements have come about BECAUSE of the Big Bad World.
I don't disagree with you that it's escapism
but it has its merits too.
When the greater body of civilization was obsessed with religion and snuffing out heretical thought, tons of good science came out of little hermited enclaves.
Let's say you've caught the 21st century identity bug, and you're obsessed with, I dunno, nonbinary gender. You want to raise your kids in a world where people understand Male and Female a little differently. The way I see it, you've got two options:
1. Change the world through the slow and soul crushing process of political action
2. Go live in a community of people that share your idea
For a lot of topics, #1 is hopeless, or a waste of time
If you want to live in another world, you can build that world within this world. There is no requirement that we all have to stay focused on the global theater. And there is some merit to isolating yourself from the predatory systems which have woven themselves into the fabric of society.
No.
(http://think.faesthetic.com/wp-content/uploads/yes2.jpg)
No. There is no merit in that. There is merit in getting intimate with those predatory systems in order to better understand them, avoid their localized effects, and exert a degree of control or influence over them. Running away from shit is fine, if you're a pussy. Just make sure you stay away for good.
My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.
They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).
They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.
What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."
Quote from: Cramulus on July 06, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.
They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).
They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.
What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."
QFT!
If I was to have a child, and I've thought about this a lot as I've had recent related drama, I believe the best way I would know of to raise that child with the values I believe it is important to instill in children, is to partially isolate that child from general society for potions of his/her life. I believe the best way I could parent that child, and teach him/her how to both survive in this world, and stay a moral person with good values, is to first isolate the child from the constant daily influences provided by media and society, then introduce that child to those influences with guidance and the ability to recognize fallacy and illogic. I'd probably end up raising a scientist, but that would be okay with me.
Or maybe I'm just insane.
was it necessary for your parents to isolate you from the general society in order that you grow into the fine upstanding citizen you are today?
Quote from: Cramulus on July 06, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.
They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).
They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.
What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."
I'm totally down with that, but choosing not to participate (or even to engage in a form of activism by declination) while remaining aware and engaged is different from running away and hiding your head in the sand, which was how I read the OP.
I agree, and I think that's a good distinction
Quote from: Cramulus on July 06, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.
They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).
They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.
What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."
This was all the rage in the 1960's, and continues to be popular with various cults.
It's fine, as long as you keep in mind that an isolationist lifestyle will have no effect on mainstream society, and that many kids raised in isolationist communities grow up unable to cope with mainstream society, so they are only fine as long as their community of origin continues to exist.
Quote from: Iptuous on July 06, 2011, 08:56:12 PM
was it necessary for your parents to isolate you from the general society in order that you grow into the fine upstanding citizen you are today?
First, I am far from a fine upstanding citizen, and that is kind of my point. Yes, a beautiful flower has a shot to grow well in a weed infested garden, but the fact remains that sheltering the plant from the weeds and undesirables increases the chances that the flower will grow strong and beautiful.
Second, I have a felony conviction, a body full of scars, way too much of a "gangsta" demeanor for my liking, and am only now at 27 putting my life and myself together. I would not want my children to have to suffer what I have had to suffer to cultivate the traits I believe have merit and value. This is, again, my point.
I grew up poor, and learned lessons like bugging Duncan Donuts at closing time to snatch the donuts they throw away every night. How to hang out at McDonalds and wait for people with money to throw away trays of half-eaten food I could finish for them and lower my hunger pains. I learned to sell weed, steal from those foolish enough to trust me, and skip out of school to get drunk or high and kill the feelings of unfulfillment that such a life entailed. It wasn't until I went to prison at 19 and was released at 22 that I realized I wanted to be someone different, and had the motivation to work at it. Now, five years later, I am* well-read, intelligent, confident, responsible, trust worthy, sympathetic, and logical.
*Compared to how I was, rather than to other people.
These are traits I value, I have strong morals, and I am on a never-ending journey of learning, experiencing, and self-improvement. This only came about because of my Prison time. Because I spent years kept isolated from society and it's temptations and endless "entertainment". Time to think, and to understand. When I re-entered society, I did so with far more wisdom then I left it with, and studied things with a level of clarity and logic I did not previously possess. It is this that motivated me to become someone I admire, rather than someone I loathed.
Quote from: DANGEROUS DOPE FIEND on July 06, 2011, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on July 06, 2011, 08:31:43 PM
My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.
They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).
They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.
What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."
This was all the rage in the 1960's, and continues to be popular with various cults.
It's fine, as long as you keep in mind that an isolationist lifestyle will have no effect on mainstream society, and that many kids raised in isolationist communities grow up unable to cope with mainstream society, so they are only fine as long as their community of origin continues to exist.
That is often true. In my case, in regards to raising children, I believe the key point is introducing them to mainstream society and teaching them about it with guidance and wisdom. Isolationist societies often try to keep their children from /ever/ entering mainstream. I think it's very important for children to experience what mainstream is like. Not in the Amish way where the child spends time partying and having rampant sex and gains the belief that mainstream society is about those things, but with guidance and an understanding of the merits of mainstream society. If the Amish "Rumspringa" required those that take it to enroll in a couple years of college prior to returning, I bet the return rates would be much lower, and the Amish people much more respected in general.