Braindump.
P3nt had a revelation from the Gawdess, an insight into the meaning of his life.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on July 15, 2011, 09:06:05 PM
Life is strife. You hate to suffer but you need it.
It's a catch 22 - everyone wants a better life for their kids but that's what turned us into a race of fat, weak, lazy whining fucks in the first place.
Then you die!
I had written out this whole reply when I realized I was going to jack his thread, so I decided to start it here....
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/ChaoTeChing/ctcch5.png)
I haven't written a lot about it, but the brand of Discordia I'm indulging myself in right now is called the Main Way, based out of the Main Street Monastery and Waffle House in Tarrytown New York. The image of the Discordian monk is slowly coming together.
Who is the Discordian monk?He lives a monastic lifestyle - that's not to say he lives alone, but that he is anchored in the internal world. It's a simple life, and everything that is in it is a choice. It is largely based on the Chao Te Ching, the study of useful illusions. There is a chord between a monk's "cell" and a cell of the Black Iron Prison. And this is the crux of Discordian monasticism, it plays with which parts of the world are inside your cell and which parts are outside.
My Discordian monk is both silly and serene. He might be a student of the Rinzai school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinzai_school). The thing I like best about the Rinzai school is its founder, Linji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linji). Llinji's favorite "teaching" method was to surprise the fuck out of his students through shouting and hitting them. He would disturb their meditation. And through this jarring experience, they'd experience a form of awakening. (we might call this the Roger Method)
The Discordian Monk lives a creative and enjoyable life, is able to manage his internal experience of the world (he is "the master who makes the grass green and the flowers beautiful"), and is able to detach himself from human desire. If presented with the Golden Apple, he can choose to ignore it. Through this detachment, this viewing the world at arm's length, he is able to cultivate a beautiful internal laughter. This "monk's belly laugh" is playful and irreverent. Like a bo staff, it can be used to block or strike, but if you try to use it when you're not balanced, you'll fall flat on your ass.
And then the Great Teacher* comes along and shows him that it's all bullshit.
This lesson is nearly always akin to a slap in the face. Or a barstool to the head.
When you hit a Discordian Monk with a barstool, two things might happen.
-He might retreat further into the illusion
-He might laugh and wake up
And the mistake that I think people make is thinking that one of these is desirable and the other is undesirable. But it's not that one of these things is Good and the other is Bad -- they are both different phases of a cycle. (You don't really WANT to live in a world of Pure Reality and No Illusions anyway!) It's like how ignorance and knowledge have a symbiotic relationship. In order to learn something, you must not know it first.
And it bears saying that some barstools are illusions too, but that doesn't mean they don't hit you full force.
* Who is the Great Teacher? Eris is the teacher, but she wears many masks.
Very nice.
I don't think I qualify as a Discordian monk, though, as I am almost all external, both emotionally and socially. I immerse myself in the poop that surrounds me, roll around in it, see if any of the chunkier bits are interesting.
It is my belief that if you don't lose your shit once in a while, you shouldn't be allowed to have any.
So I am not the Rinzai master, but rather the stick the Rinzai master hits people with.
I thought you would like Linji... I've got a comic about him somewhere which I'll have to scan in. It involves his followers meditating on his words and then he sneaks up on them and shouts in their ear. When they recover from the blast, they finally get it.
Quote from: Cramulus on July 18, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
I thought you would like Linji... I've got a comic about him somewhere which I'll have to scan in. It involves his followers meditating on his words and then he sneaks up on them and shouts in their ear. When they recover from the blast, they finally get it.
Well, then, that's not me. :lol:
here's one I managed to find --- it shows his irreverent nature
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LO0xP3rNNsI/TQpF4XsiCnI/AAAAAAAACG4/fJmpyMd56aE/s1600/ZenSpeaks.jpg)
a good illustration that there are many roads to enlightenment - not just serenity, but hostility and contention too. When I was writing the OP I really struggled with how to frame the monk - is he serene? Peaceful Creative or Destructive? I know some people who are definitely Discordian monks but are NOT serene - their dial seems to have been cranked up to 11 and it won't quit.
There's a guy in my cabal who's like that - he's always going, doing, fast fast fast. Hanging out with him is invigorating. It's not enough to be having fun, he has to be having fun at maximum speed and volume. He's a good example of the other side of the coin - when he finds his own personal brand of enlightenment I think it will be to cool down a bit and be comfortable with where he is now. But in the meantime, I could learn a thing or two from him.
I disagree entirely that pursuing external objects necessarily costs you your self.
I would agree that becoming fixated on external objects (by which I mean they are your sole concern) may do so. The empty suit that HAS to have the Rolex, the Hummer, the McMansion, etc...
...But simply pursuing external objects is human nature. If we pretend that it isn't then we're trying to be something we're not.
I'm confused about what bit you're responding to - it's not my opinion that the pursuit of the external world is at odds with the self.
I think you have to be able to temper your desire for the world - when you see the Golden Apple, you should be able to choose to ignore it. (That's not to say that you should always ignore it - few things in this world are so absolute.)
Quote from: Cramulus on July 18, 2011, 07:48:35 PM
I'm confused about what bit you're responding to - it's not my opinion that the pursuit of the external world is at odds with the self.
I think you have to be able to temper your desire for the world - when you see the Golden Apple, you should be able to choose to ignore it. (That's not to say that you should always ignore it - few things in this world are so absolute.)
1. I was responding to the comic.
2. Okay, I can buy that.
I could totally see Lenji being Roger, though. If you took off the panel that expains everything, it's like your average Tuesday around him while he's on the phone. :lol:
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on July 18, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
I could totally see Lenji being Roger, though. If you took off the panel that expains everything, it's like your average Tuesday around him while he's on the phone. :lol:
I'd have said something about poop and maybe something about you ladies plotting against me.
On topic, though, I have a serious problem with Buddhism in any form...This "no desires" shit. It directly contradicts the Cheeseburger Admonition, which is one of the few parts of the CotSG that really applies to real life.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 18, 2011, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on July 18, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
I could totally see Lenji being Roger, though. If you took off the panel that expains everything, it's like your average Tuesday around him while he's on the phone. :lol:
I'd have said something about poop and maybe something about you ladies plotting against me.
On topic, though, I have a serious problem with Buddhism in any form...This "no desires" shit. It directly contradicts the Cheeseburger Admonition, which is one of the few parts of the CotSG that really applies to real life.
What's the Cheeseburger Admonition about?
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on July 18, 2011, 08:18:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 18, 2011, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on July 18, 2011, 08:10:57 PM
I could totally see Lenji being Roger, though. If you took off the panel that expains everything, it's like your average Tuesday around him while he's on the phone. :lol:
I'd have said something about poop and maybe something about you ladies plotting against me.
On topic, though, I have a serious problem with Buddhism in any form...This "no desires" shit. It directly contradicts the Cheeseburger Admonition, which is one of the few parts of the CotSG that really applies to real life.
What's the Cheeseburger Admonition about?
Don't just eat that cheeseburger,
eat the hell out of it.
I'm not a Buddhist, I'm only a shitty Discordian monk, so I can't speak with much authority on the matter... but my understanding of Buddhism is that it's not desire they warn against, it's attachment.
So you can desire a cheeseburger
and you can eat the hell out of it
but when your friends decide they want to order pizza instead, you need to keep your attachment for that cheeseburger in check -- otherwise you'll either (a) throw a tantrum, or (b) hate the pizza
I think there's also something to be said for being comfortable with what you have now... like we've been saying, you've gotta temper your desire for the golden apple. That's not to say you shouldn't enjoy it when you finally grab it.
The thing to remember is that the thing you're seeking is probably internal, not external. If you enjoy the act of eating cheeseburgers, structuring your life around burger bars won't bring you happiness in itself.
It's sort of the same as taking it to the wall.
Although, taking it to the wall is also about being completely invested in the process without any particular attachment to the outcome, and I can see the Cheeseburger Admonition being something like that as well.
Personally, I prefer Taoism over Buddhism because rather than advocating detachment from the world, it advocates acceptance of unity with the world. So while the Cheeseburger Admonition and the Wall do resonate a little with Buddhism (lack of attachment to the outcome) they resonate more strongly with Taoism (when you are eating the hell out of that cheeseburger, you are one with the cheeseburger).
Cram's words have inspired me.
"You will not be punished for your poop, you will be punished BY your poop."
- Bhoddisiroger Howl.
Linji kinda looked like Roger, though:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/RinzaiGigen.jpg/220px-RinzaiGigen.jpg)
Only more Chinese.
Can you elaborate on "taking it to the wall"? I'm not familiar with that usage. Or else I'm just really dense today, which I wouldn't rule out.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 18, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
Cram's words have inspired me.
"You will not be punished for your poop, you will be punished BY your poop."
- Bhoddisiroger Howl.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Don't just poop
poop the
fuck out of your toilet!
"All wrong-doing arises because of poop. If poop is transformed can wrong-doing remain?"
This, incidentally, completely justifies those Japanese scientists that made steak out of shit.
"An insincere and evil poop is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil poop will wound your mind. "
Quote from: Cramulus on July 18, 2011, 09:00:11 PM
Can you elaborate on "taking it to the wall"? I'm not familiar with that usage. Or else I'm just really dense today, which I wouldn't rule out.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 18, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
Cram's words have inspired me.
"You will not be punished for your poop, you will be punished BY your poop."
- Bhoddisiroger Howl.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Don't just poop
poop the fuck out of your toilet!
Taking it to the wall, usually phrased as "TO THE WALL!" is when you go utterly gung-ho on something,
just to see how hard, how far, and how long you can push it.
(You know when it's over because you hit the Wall)
Kind of like the FUCKING ORANGE EATING CONTEST.
I'll have to mull this over a bit. I've been trying to get a better idea of what it means to be a member of the Nephewhood, other than a vague semi-mocking brand of monasticism (Which is mostly manifested by shaving my head and growing my goatee uncomfortably long. Seriously, eating is getting kinda difficult :lulz:) I was developing the idea a bit over at EBG, with a bit of an eye toward aping or inverting Catholic monasticism, since it's something I'm more familiar with than Buddhism, plus nobody's really done it near as I can tell.
Quote from: Cainad on July 19, 2011, 01:44:30 AM
Kind of like the FUCKING ORANGE EATING CONTEST.
YES
TO THE WALL!
Interesting thread here. 8)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZotQw.jpg)
What's the name of that book? It seems very interesting.
Zen Speaks
(Shouts of Nothingness)
by Tsai Chih Chung
translated by Brian Bruya
This one has two parts:
(http://i.imgur.com/23MJn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AsmRg.jpg)
I don't like that little guy at the end who explains the comic at all. Everything else is pretty awesome.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvazmnTN5s1qf9tc2o1_500.jpg)