http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/26/its-time-for-china-to-pay-its-debts-to-united-states/?cmpid=cmty_fb_Gigya_It%27s_Time_for_China_to_Pay_Its_Debts_to_the_United_States
Okay, this is from Fox. Cain, is this for real or smoke up asses to make America™ feel better?
It's FOX. You have to ask??? :x
Somebody has something backwards, I think. As far as I know, the US owes China almost TWO TRILLION dollars.
That sounds about right.
Cramming into the discussion of bondholder relationships the fact about China and its deal with piracy seems out of place, like the whole article is bulldozing information just to make China look bad.
ETA: Also bawwing over Taiwan, the nationalistic silogism of "yes, Amuurica pays its debts", the article is all over the place.
Technically, he has a point. I'm not well read enough on Chinese government bond issues to say exactly to what extent he's right, but he's not totally wrong.
However, the idea that S&P would do anything which didn't directly benefit them and their Wall Street insiders is laughably naive in the extreme, and the US is still more reliant on Chinese industry and credit than China is reliant on the US as a market. So if they really wanted to go down that road, China would win by default, as America is in the weaker position financially, and with more to lose.
As for intellectual piracy...every rising power engages in it. The Americans were notorious for it in the 19th century. And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again? Shit, I think even the Oceanic micro-nations are siding with China now. If Texas broke away from the USA and China started heavily arming it, does he think America would not aim missiles at it?
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
Technically, he has a point. I'm not well read enough on Chinese government bond issues to say exactly to what extent he's right, but he's not totally wrong.
However, the idea that S&P would do anything which didn't directly benefit them and their Wall Street insiders is laughably naive in the extreme, and the US is still more reliant on Chinese industry and credit than China is reliant on the US as a market. So if they really wanted to go down that road, China would win by default, as America is in the weaker position financially, and with more to lose.
As for intellectual piracy...every rising power engages in it. The Americans were notorious for it in the 19th century. And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again? Shit, I think even the Oceanic micro-nations are siding with China now. If Texas broke away from the USA and China started heavily arming it, does he think America would not aim missiles at it?
Jesus, what a sweet dream that is.
That's my American dream.
:lulz:
:lulz:
Just to go back to the violating copyright thing again...as a rule, a preoccupation with copyright violations and free trade is usually a sign of a declining major power....economically, they're declining and so they fear their best ideas going overseas, where they can be made more cheaply, and free trade is the mechanism by which first tier powers tend to try and kick the ladder from underneath them and prevent other powers rising up, as no nation has used free trade, as it is commonly understood, in order to become a first tier power, but only adopted it afterwards in order to secure their hegemony (see: 16th and 17th century British tariffs. In fact, it could be argued that Britain did not officially adopt free trade as an ideology until 1850, by which point the empire was at it's most powerful and least threatened).
Thanks Cain. I knew it was FOX and therefore, potentially bullshit, but I just wanted clarification. True facts, but more propaganda than anything.
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan is not a breakaway province of the PRC, it would be more correct to say that the PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When the commies took over china they never bothered to take control of Taiwan, they just took control of the mainland and arbitrarily declared Taiwan to be conquered as well, in a move whose bullshit and audacity arguably makes even Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, is a continuation of the old Chinese government from prior to 1949, and the mainland government is the belligerant breakaway.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 03, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan is not a breakaway province of the PRC, it would be more correct to say that the PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When the commies took over china they never bothered to take control of Taiwan, they just took control of the mainland and arbitrarily declared Taiwan to be conquered as well, in a move whose bullshit and audacity arguably makes even Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, is a continuation of the old Chinese government from prior to 1949, and the mainland government is the belligerant breakaway.
Umm. Okay. So, the term "government-in-exile" doesn't apply? And if we apply this logic, then certain parts of the U.S. should be under British control, because they didn't bother conquering them? What exactly are you saying?
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 03, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan may bee not a breakaway province of teh PRC, it wood bee moar correct twoee say taht teh PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When teh commies took over china they never bothered twoee take control of Taiwan, they just took control of teh mainland nad arbitrarily declared Taiwan twoee bee conquered as well, in a move whose bullsheet nad audacity arguably makes eben Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, iz a continuation of thee old Chinese government from prior twoee 1949, nad teh mainland government iz teh belligerant breakaway.
"nad" = BRILLIANT. :lulz:
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 03, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan is not a breakaway province of the PRC, it would be more correct to say that the PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When the commies took over china they never bothered to take control of Taiwan, they just took control of the mainland and arbitrarily declared Taiwan to be conquered as well, in a move whose bullshit and audacity arguably makes even Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, is a continuation of the old Chinese government from prior to 1949, and the mainland government is the belligerant breakaway.
Except the PRC
is the legitimate government of China, and Chinese territory extends to Taiwan.
Unless you're going to argue the Taiwanese government has any chance (or even the inclination) to push their bullshit claims on the mainland? :lulz:
Even Taiwan admits there is only one China. Unfortunately for them, one of those two entities claiming to be China rules 1 billion people and is recognized internationally as the official Chinese government, and it isn't the entity currently living on the island of Formosa.
Quote from: Nigel on September 03, 2011, 07:26:45 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 03, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan may bee not a breakaway province of teh PRC, it wood bee moar correct twoee say taht teh PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When teh commies took over china they never bothered twoee take control of Taiwan, they just took control of teh mainland nad arbitrarily declared Taiwan twoee bee conquered as well, in a move whose bullsheet nad audacity arguably makes eben Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, iz a continuation of thee old Chinese government from prior twoee 1949, nad teh mainland government iz teh belligerant breakaway.
:lulz:
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 03, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2011, 06:30:42 PM
And pointing missiles at Taiwan...well, I'd just like to remind everyone Taiwan is a breakaway province of the People's Republic of China, existing purely due to American arms sales. How many countries recognize Taiwan, again?
Taiwan is not a breakaway province of the PRC, it would be more correct to say that the PRC is a breakaway from Taiwan. When the commies took over china they never bothered to take control of Taiwan, they just took control of the mainland and arbitrarily declared Taiwan to be conquered as well, in a move whose bullshit and audacity arguably makes even Fox News seem sincere by comparison. Taiwan, therefore, is a continuation of the old Chinese government from prior to 1949, and the mainland government is the belligerant breakaway.
Doesn't that mean that 750 billion is Taiwan's responsibility?