I posted this to facebook, but considering how much of a fan of Captain Kirk you are, I figured I would repost it here
Quote from: TwidQuestion. Going through the original series of Star Trek, I've noticed that Kirk always orders the helm to engage at warp factor 1. This is equivalent to light speed. That will get you nowhere slow. It takes a little over 4 years to get from Earth to Alpha Centauri. If they're on a 5 year mission to explore strange new worlds, they might get a couple of worlds, none of which probably have either new life or new civilizations, and considering how long the Federation has been in existence at this point, they are not boldly going where no man has gone before. How's that leisurely pace going, Kirk? /nerd
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151)
According to current relativistic theory, at the speed of light you exist everywhere at once, so wouldn't be boldly going so much, as boldly revisiting everywhere
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 09:21:34 PM
According to current relativistic theory, at the speed of light you exist everywhere at once, so wouldn't be boldly going so much, as boldly revisiting everywhere
Warp speed negates relativistic effects, since it moves the space around the matter, not the matter itself.
Also, could you get me the link for that? I haven't heard that before.
I think its just the result of plugging velocity = c into special relativistic time dilation equation.
Where Gamma = 1/ (1-(v^2/C^2)) time dilation is given by delta t = gamma * proper time
if v= C then the denominator becomes 1-1 = 0. anything divided by zero is equal to zero/infinity (i.e with out limits).
So delta t will always be zero when travelling at speed of light.
using Speed = distance over time, rearranging gives distance equals time times speed.
so plugging in our delta t, means that distance will always equal zero/infinity which as I mentioned over means it has no limits.
therefore at the speed of light you are travelling no where and ever where at the same time.
Not sure on any links, as I just rearranged it from memory. Good start would be hyperphysics for the basics
I thought that dividing by zero was meaningless and fallacy. The result is also a bit counterintuitive. We've observed particles going at the speed of light that clearly weren't everywhere at once.
Only particle we have observed at the speed of light, as a discrete packed of photons. But it is also a wave, which means it is not bound by mass constraints.
and that equation is a bit of a mind fuck,
as 1) no physical object could travel at the speed of light as it would require infinite energy
2) the reason you can be infinitely anywhere is that at the speed of light, time is infinite/stopped inside your reference frame (that is what is meant by delta t = zero
So imagine you could instantly accelerate to the speed of light. once there you could travel anywhere in the universe, with your clocking basically frozen. meaning you would in effect be immortal until you slowed down.
So jump to speed of light and say hit alpha centuri, that's what 4 light years away? to you, it would be instantaneous, where to the rest of the the universe (outside your reference frame) it would have taken you four years.
and dividing by zero is a fallacy as it produces no real solutions to an equation. which in this case means time stops existing.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 10:03:23 PM
Only particle we have observed at the speed of light, as a discrete packed of photons. But it is also a wave, which means it is not bound by mass constraints.
and that equation is a bit of a mind fuck,
as 1) no physical object could travel at the speed of light as it would require infinite energy
2) the reason you can be infinitely anywhere is that at the speed of light, time is infinite/stopped inside your reference frame (that is what is meant by delta t = zero
So imagine you could instantly accelerate to the speed of light. once there you could travel anywhere in the universe, with your clocking basically frozen. meaning you would in effect be immortal until you slowed down.
So jump to speed of light and say hit alpha centuri, that's what 4 light years away? to you, it would be instantaneous, where to the rest of the the universe (outside your reference frame) it would have taken you four years.
and dividing by zero is a fallacy as it produces no real solutions to an equation. which in this case means time stops existing.
So it would be everywhere (at least in a straight line) from the pilot's perspective, but it still wouldn't actually be instantaneously everywhere though, right?
It could be everywhere, anywhere as velocity in space is not limited to 2-Directional travel (assuming you don't slow down for corners)
and whilst, no it would not be instantaneously every where at once to people on the external reference frame, to those within the reference frame it would be. So when kirk states their 5 year mission to go boldly where no one has gone before... is probably true, as he was captain in the year whatever lets say 2XXX ? so anything that was more than than say x light years away (where x is the number of years from kirk being captain to warp travel being invented/2) would be where no one has gone before.
As the information is limited to travelling at the speed of light, this means that the only way the information could be returned would be if the vessel itself physically returned to dump the data.
So as an effect of this, the second that the enterprise entered relativistic velocities, it would be seriously obsolete to encountering a Klingon vessel which it encountered, where the Klingon vessel was closer to its homeworld than the enterprise was.
There is actually a really good sci-fi book called forever war by Joe Halderman, which details a war occurring at relativistic velocities. It definitely is worth the read and will explain it a lot better than me.
Also read up about the Chernkov radiation. its my favourite scientific concept. basically due to the speed of light in water being less than the speed of light in vacuum, it is possible to provide electrons with enough energy to travel faster than the speed of light. This causes in effect an optical shock wave, where the EM energy from the electron is shifted in the blue direction, in the same way that a sonic boom is produced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation
So nuclear reactors glow blue. which is pretty pimp to see.
Huh. Ill have to check it out.
The sequel forever peace by Joe Halderman is not as good. Still worth a read, as does learn to more surreal wtfness near the end of the book.
Read reviews of the different printings of The Forever War, I have read the first and I think the second. Stuff was taken out in the first then crammed into the second in a way that jarred a bit. I think there may be at least two other versions that aren't as jacked up.
Good paired with Starship Troopers.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 09:34:26 PM
if v= C then the denominator becomes 1-1 = 0. anything divided by zero is equal to zero/infinity (i.e with out limits) undefined.
But apart from that, everything you said was completely spot on mistaken.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 14, 2011, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 09:34:26 PM
if v= C then the denominator becomes 1-1 = 0. anything divided by zero is equal to zero/infinity (i.e with out limits) undefined.
But apart from that, everything you said was completely spot on mistaken.
I wasn't going to bring it up because I didn't want to bother defending the position from my phone, but what Trip said.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 14, 2011, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 09:34:26 PM
if v= C then the denominator becomes 1-1 = 0. anything divided by zero is equal to zero/infinity (i.e with out limits) undefined.
But apart from that, everything you said was completely spot on mistaken.
Thank you Trip.
I trust your judgment on mathematical issues.
If you start nitpicking Classic Star Trek, you'll never fucking stop.
Pay attention to the turbo lift, sometime.
Indeed. When the premise of the OP starts with "so, they're only going at the speed of light," you might as well forget it, because it's Chinatown, Jake.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 14, 2011, 04:58:32 PM
Indeed. When the premise of the OP starts with "so, they're only going at the speed of light," you might as well forget it, because it's Chinatown, Jake.
And, in Chinatown, NOBODY can land a fucking shuttle without crashing it.
:lulz: what's the story with the classic turbo lift?
Quote from: Cramulus on October 14, 2011, 05:02:48 PM
:lulz: what's the story with the classic turbo lift?
It changes every episode.
Some days, they just get in and it goes. Some days, there's a handle that they have to use to go up and down. Some days, the captain's stateroom is behind the bridge, and somedays, he has to go down the lift.
Also, once in a while, they go UP from the bridge, and the bridge is the highest point on the ship.
Once they went sideways for a bit. Not sure how that works.
Don't tell me how it works. Star Trek turbo lifts are made of miracles. Magic ones.
Also, it seems the Enterprise was built by KB Homes. Mr Scott is forever burning holes in the walls with a phaser, to get to instruments or junction boxes that have no access panels.
Also, sometimes they need to be wearing a communicator to get beamed up, and sometimes they don't.
And the Prime Directive was violated EVERY WEEK. "Hey, primitive culture, we're from the stars. We hope our very presence doesn't impact or alter your culture. The Captain will now fuck your leader's daughter."
And while we're at it, we'll beam THE ENTIRE COMMAND STRUCTURE OF THE SHIP down to the surface. We're a bit short of Marines, because they IMMEDIATELY DIE upon reaching a planet.
Speaking of which, sometimes they have phaser rifles, and sometimes they don't, but the Marines have NOTHING resembling armor.
Their faith in science makes things work out all okay even when it doesn't.
Star Trek TOS requires a suspension of disbelief on a scale dwarfing Grimm's Fairy Tales.
Quote from: Luna on October 14, 2011, 06:28:38 PM
Star Trek TOS requires a suspension of disbelief on a scale dwarfing Grimm's Fairy Tales.
And this is why it was so bad ass.
Quote from: Luna on October 14, 2011, 06:28:38 PM
Star Trek TOS requires a suspension of disbelief on a scale dwarfing Grimm's Fairy Tales Gunsmoke.
Fixed for actual genre accuracy.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 14, 2011, 06:45:56 PM
Quote from: Luna on October 14, 2011, 06:28:38 PM
Star Trek TOS requires a suspension of disbelief on a scale dwarfing Grimm's Fairy Tales Gunsmoke.
Fixed for actual genre accuracy.
But.. but... Gunsmoke was a documentary! :cry:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 14, 2011, 04:50:12 PM
If you start nitpicking Classic Star Trek, you'll never fucking stop.
Pay attention to the turbo lift, sometime.
What, those things they grab onto?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 14, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
Also, it seems the Enterprise was built by KB Homes. Mr Scott is forever burning holes in the walls with a phaser, to get to instruments or junction boxes that have no access panels.
Also, sometimes they need to be wearing a communicator to get beamed up, and sometimes they don't.
And the Prime Directive was violated EVERY WEEK. "Hey, primitive culture, we're from the stars. We hope our very presence doesn't impact or alter your culture. The Captain will now fuck your leader's daughter."
And while we're at it, we'll beam THE ENTIRE COMMAND STRUCTURE OF THE SHIP down to the surface. We're a bit short of Marines, because they IMMEDIATELY DIE upon reaching a planet.
Speaking of which, sometimes they have phaser rifles, and sometimes they don't, but the Marines have NOTHING resembling armor.
:lulz:
Quote from: Drunken Monkey Cabal on October 13, 2011, 09:34:26 PM
I think its just the result of plugging velocity = c into special relativistic time dilation equation.
Where Gamma = 1/ (1-(v^2/C^2)) time dilation is given by delta t = gamma * proper time
if v= C then the denominator becomes 1-1 = 0. anything divided by zero is equal to zero/infinity (i.e with out limits).
So delta t will always be zero when travelling at speed of light.
using Speed = distance over time, rearranging gives distance equals time times speed.
so plugging in our delta t, means that distance will always equal zero/infinity which as I mentioned over means it has no limits.
therefore at the speed of light you are travelling no where and ever where at the same time.
Not sure on any links, as I just rearranged it from memory. Good start would be hyperphysics for the basics
So, it's light everywhere, because photons exist everywhere at the same time.
So why do I have to buy lightbulbs?
Lightbulbs are a scam. They are in fact inside-out photon shields.
Everybody knows the "lightbulb" was invented by several people at exactly the same time, right?
Well, because of this time-dilation light speed phenomenon, the photon-shield was invented everywhere at once. So everything went dark. But instead of simply turning it off, a couple of clever bastards such as Thomas Edison then figured out they could invert the photon-shield locally and market it as a "light bulb".
Up to this very day "light bulbs" are a multi trillion dollar industry that profits from selling people small pockets of the photons that would otherwise naturally occur everywhere at once.
Those bastgards.
I know, right?
But it gets worse: When physicists discovered relativity, the Light Bulb Industry feared that people would get wise to their scam and find out. But they also knew they couldn't suppress the scientific truth now that it was discovered. So instead, they launched a terrible disinformation campaign to confuse the fuck out of people in the hope they would either leave it alone or simply go batshit crazy.
And that's how we got Quantum Physics.