Quote from: Nigel on December 08, 2009, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Faust on December 08, 2009, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on December 08, 2009, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 08, 2009, 05:40:12 PM
So I never believed in ghosts until we moved into this house. We had ghosts, in a big bad creepy way. I noticed they always do the same thing in the same places, like they're just a recording of someone who used to live here. I don't think they're really interactive, or that they can do anything to you.
Then we remodeled, and they mostly stopped. Go figure!
Maybe a renovation is in order?
I agree with you Nigel, I've seen two "ghosts" (one of them on a few different occasions) and I have come to the conclusion that they are a genuine phenomena, but that they are not the remainders of people who have died.
I think they are exactly what you stated, recordings. Perhaps the materials around the phenomena have something to do with the 'playback' feature?
I don't have any idea what these phenomena are or what causes them.
I have only one experience of it
When we lived in london, the house we were in had the sound of someone walking up and down the stairs in the evening, there were no houses beside us and you could actually stand at either end of the stairs and hear it getting louder as someone approached you. I thought it was very funny at the time, I was ten and used to run out to look at it whenever it would happen.
We have one that seems unaffected by the remodel, which happens somewhere around midnight on October 29, which is the sound of the front door closing hard followed by someone in hard-heeled shoes walking decisively (and very loudly) across the living room floor toward the kitchen, at which point they disappear.
I alway tell myself I'm going to stay downstairs and see what happens, but by the time that time of year rolls around again I've always forgotten. It scares the fucking CRAP out of me, every fucking year; I think we're getting broken into.
You have two days to prepare yourself.
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, NIGEL.
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/phantom_scooby_doo_unmask_1_1750.jpg)
Cain!! You are a good man.
We want video evidence. Also, load up a shotgun with rock salt, carry a cold iron blade on you and acquire some holy water/memorize the Lord's Prayer in Latin. You know, just in case.
Can't help but think Cain has somehow been responsible for said haunting in all previous years, leading up to this.
:shifty:
ETA: Why the fuck don't we have a shifty emote?
:aardvark:
Quote from: Cain on October 27, 2011, 12:53:01 AM
Quote from: Nigel on December 08, 2009, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Faust on December 08, 2009, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on December 08, 2009, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 08, 2009, 05:40:12 PM
So I never believed in ghosts until we moved into this house. We had ghosts, in a big bad creepy way. I noticed they always do the same thing in the same places, like they're just a recording of someone who used to live here. I don't think they're really interactive, or that they can do anything to you.
Then we remodeled, and they mostly stopped. Go figure!
Maybe a renovation is in order?
I agree with you Nigel, I've seen two "ghosts" (one of them on a few different occasions) and I have come to the conclusion that they are a genuine phenomena, but that they are not the remainders of people who have died.
I think they are exactly what you stated, recordings. Perhaps the materials around the phenomena have something to do with the 'playback' feature?
I don't have any idea what these phenomena are or what causes them.
I have only one experience of it
When we lived in london, the house we were in had the sound of someone walking up and down the stairs in the evening, there were no houses beside us and you could actually stand at either end of the stairs and hear it getting louder as someone approached you. I thought it was very funny at the time, I was ten and used to run out to look at it whenever it would happen.
We have one that seems unaffected by the remodel, which happens somewhere around midnight on October 29, which is the sound of the front door closing hard followed by someone in hard-heeled shoes walking decisively (and very loudly) across the living room floor toward the kitchen, at which point they disappear.
I alway tell myself I'm going to stay downstairs and see what happens, but by the time that time of year rolls around again I've always forgotten. It scares the fucking CRAP out of me, every fucking year; I think we're getting broken into.
You have two days to prepare yourself.
OH SHIT this reminds of this weird dream I had in 09 on my birthday. I was in a strange house getting a snack.
OH SWEET
Thanks for reminding me!
Note that I don't believe in "ghosts" as a supernatural phenomenon; from my own personal experience I do believe they exist, but I don't think they're supernatural. I don't have much of anything in terms of a theory about what they are, though.
I heard a theory that started out saying we will never achieve true AI because the brain actually operates in many more dimensions than we can perceive. The afterlife is then explained as conciousness continuing to exist in the extra dimensions. Ghosts are then explained as these extra-dimensional entities somehow influencing the dimensions that we percieve.
I'm not sure how much of that I believe, but I do believe in extra dimensions and I like the idea of intelligence not confined to 4 dimensional space-time.
This is fucking CREEPY. Just saying.
Also, I want an audio recording, if not video.
Shit, I wonder if Radio Shack still sells little recording devices? I just realized that in this post-tape-deck era, I haven't got a fucking thing besides my iPhone to try to record this with... I might try to sleep on the couch on Saturday.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on October 27, 2011, 01:06:47 AM
Quote from: Cain on October 27, 2011, 12:53:01 AM
Quote from: Nigel on December 08, 2009, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Faust on December 08, 2009, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on December 08, 2009, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 08, 2009, 05:40:12 PM
So I never believed in ghosts until we moved into this house. We had ghosts, in a big bad creepy way. I noticed they always do the same thing in the same places, like they're just a recording of someone who used to live here. I don't think they're really interactive, or that they can do anything to you.
Then we remodeled, and they mostly stopped. Go figure!
Maybe a renovation is in order?
I agree with you Nigel, I've seen two "ghosts" (one of them on a few different occasions) and I have come to the conclusion that they are a genuine phenomena, but that they are not the remainders of people who have died.
I think they are exactly what you stated, recordings. Perhaps the materials around the phenomena have something to do with the 'playback' feature?
I don't have any idea what these phenomena are or what causes them.
I have only one experience of it
When we lived in london, the house we were in had the sound of someone walking up and down the stairs in the evening, there were no houses beside us and you could actually stand at either end of the stairs and hear it getting louder as someone approached you. I thought it was very funny at the time, I was ten and used to run out to look at it whenever it would happen.
We have one that seems unaffected by the remodel, which happens somewhere around midnight on October 29, which is the sound of the front door closing hard followed by someone in hard-heeled shoes walking decisively (and very loudly) across the living room floor toward the kitchen, at which point they disappear.
I alway tell myself I'm going to stay downstairs and see what happens, but by the time that time of year rolls around again I've always forgotten. It scares the fucking CRAP out of me, every fucking year; I think we're getting broken into.
You have two days to prepare yourself.
OH SHIT this reminds of this weird dream I had in 09 on my birthday. I was in a strange house getting a snack.
:lulz:
I remember watching a special on the St. Augustine Lighthouse haunting years ago, and they describe it as a "residual haunting", just energies moving in the same way they always did for days on end. Other than that, that's all I know about such things.
Sounds freaking awesome, though. I'd probably get wicked creeped out, regardless.
My thoughts about ghosts are mainly formed by this book The Hollow Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Man_%281992_novel%29).
Wherein Mind is a holographic pattern, the brain is the holographic projector and you save an imperfect copy of every person you get to know, the better you know them the better the copy.
Ghosts can then be considered remnants of lost copies of people, imaginary or real.
If for example you have a recurring dream for several years that someone is breaking into your house and later forget you ever had those dreams, parts of the copy can return as the sound of someone opening your door and walking into your house.
That said, these ghosts you are experiencing need to be researched with a mind open to all posibilities.
Do it for SCIENCE!
edit for typo.
I really want some kind of recordermchootiethang for this. Because otherwise it's going to be as exciting as "Yep, I heard it!" or "Nope, stayed up all night & didn't hear a damn thing".
The other weird noise that I REALLY want to figure out is the thing that circles the neighborhood and makes a squeaking, screeching, tooting, clanging cacophony once a year around Halloween. I think that if I hear it this year I'm going to get in my car and try to find it, because I'm pretty sure it's some neighborhood freaks who put a big noisy thing in a truck and then drive around with it. I want to see it.
I don't believe in ghosts as a supernatural phenomenon, but I do believe in them as a manifestation of KORROK THE SLAVEMASTER.
If the JDatE movie is even half as good as the book, you'll all do the same pretty soon.
I still have to read that. Though I may start, since it is Halloween soon...
Quote from: Regret on October 27, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
My thoughts about ghosts are mainly formed by this book The Hollow Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Man_%281992_novel%29).
Wherein Mind is a holographic pattern, the brain is the holographic projector and you save an imperfect copy of every person you get to know, the better you know them the better the copy.
Ghosts can then be considered remnants of lost copies of people, imaginary or real.
If for example you have a recurring dream for several years that someone is breaking into your house and later forget you ever had those dreams, parts of the copy can return as the sound of someone opening your door and walking into your house.
That sounds reasonable, but doesn't explain why they show up when the people that never had a memory about these things still claim to experience ghosts.
Unless the holographic thing also affects non-living things, which makes it sound a lot less reasonable.
Additionally, I never once experienced a ghosting.
The weirdest inexplicable thing I ever experienced is that at some point I noticed I had two copies of the first CD I ever bought. It was the first I ever bought, which was a big deal, so I wouldn't buy it again. And none of my friends even remotely liked Happy Hardcore so I couldn't have accidentally packed their copy or anything. THIS IS WEIRD. But never ghosts....
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 28, 2011, 12:19:06 AM
Quote from: Regret on October 27, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
My thoughts about ghosts are mainly formed by this book The Hollow Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollow_Man_%281992_novel%29).
Wherein Mind is a holographic pattern, the brain is the holographic projector and you save an imperfect copy of every person you get to know, the better you know them the better the copy.
Ghosts can then be considered remnants of lost copies of people, imaginary or real.
If for example you have a recurring dream for several years that someone is breaking into your house and later forget you ever had those dreams, parts of the copy can return as the sound of someone opening your door and walking into your house.
That sounds reasonable, but doesn't explain why they show up when the people that never had a memory about these things still claim to experience ghosts.
Unless the holographic thing also affects non-living things, which makes it sound a lot less reasonable.
Additionally, I never once experienced a ghosting.
The weirdest inexplicable thing I ever experienced is that at some point I noticed I had two copies of the first CD I ever bought. It was the first I ever bought, which was a big deal, so I wouldn't buy it again. And none of my friends even remotely liked Happy Hardcore so I couldn't have accidentally packed their copy or anything. THIS IS WEIRD. But never ghosts....
One possible explanation for experiencing "ghosts" that are unlike anything you've experienced before is that your mind makes up a scenario, in, say, a dream, or perhaps a composite of things from books or movies, and then generates it as an entire scene. If it replays it enough times, you then have the foundation for projecting utterly new "ghosts".
That wouldn't explain why different people can have the same experience in the same place without knowing about each others' experiences, but it is one possibility. That, or somehow physical objects are capable of storing "recordings" and playback can be triggered by certain things like time of year or time of day.
I mean, it's all pure speculation anyway.
It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on October 27, 2011, 11:49:20 PM
I don't believe in ghosts as a supernatural phenomenon, but I do believe in them as a manifestation of KORROK THE SLAVEMASTER.
If the JDatE movie is even half as good as the book, you'll all do the same pretty soon.
I never finished reading that. What the hell. I need to go find my copy...
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 28, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?
Why not?
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2011, 01:14:31 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 28, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?
Why not?
No you're right it does.
But that also means you're making it up from a collated thing from experiences and movies etc?
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 28, 2011, 01:19:53 AM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2011, 01:14:31 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 28, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?
Why not?
No you're right it does.
But that also means you're making it up from a collated thing from experiences and movies etc?
If that speculation were true, it would mean that my brain is actually physically receiving signals that it interprets as those sounds. And when I asked my husband if he heard it, the power of suggestion, especially with a sleepy man in the middle of the night, would probably be enough to make him think he had.
Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH
Quote from: Epimetheus on October 28, 2011, 01:35:53 AM
Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH
Well, they definitely generate more ghost
hunters.
I'm open to the possibility that some of the 'things we perceive out there' are actually our mind layering information from various feedback loops onto our conscious experience (it's my current working model for 'chi'). When working with that model, tho, I don't think we can limit ourselves to a binary 'purely external sense-data source' vs 'purely internal representation outwardly projected' choice.
It's probably some combination of the two (if our model is accurate).
As to the idea of 'holographic personality copies', I think that this line from an interview between Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett sums that up best:
Quote
Neil Gaiman: Did you really say in a previous interview that you'd like to be like Sam Vines? Why?
Terry Pratchett: I don't think I actually said that, but you know how it is and 'how it is' changes as you get older. The author can always delve into his own personality and find aspects of himself with which he can dress his characters. If you pushed me I would say that ever since I stood up and talked about my Alzheimer's I have been a public figure; I visited Downing Street twice, wrote angry letters to the Times, got into debates in the House of Commons, and generally became a geezer to the extent that I sit here sometimes bewildered and think to myself, "Actually, your job is to sit here writing another book. Changing the world is for other people . . ." and then I come back to myself with, "No it isn't!" And so, bearing in mind that these days, people call a kid from the council houses "Sir" allows me to create a mindset for Vimes.
Neil Gaiman: When you put your Vimes-writing head on, is there a difference in the way you view the world to, say, when you're in your Rincewind-writing head, or your Granny Weatherwax-writing head?
Terry Pratchett: Oh, yes, surely you know how it is. Once you have your character sitting right there in your head, all you really need to do is wind them up, put them down, and simply write down what they do, say, or think. It really is like that. It verges on the weird; you know you are doing the thinking, but the thinking is being driven by the Sam Vimes module. There is also a fully functioning Tiffany Aching module, too, which is rather strange.
I don't necessarily agree that it's a 'holographic' function, but the behavior is there to be used (much like we as humans have co-opted our brain's taste-network to help is make moral decisions about imagined actions).
Quote from: Telarus on October 28, 2011, 11:44:50 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on October 28, 2011, 01:35:53 AM
Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH
Well, they definitely generate more ghost hunters.
I'm open to the possibility that some of the 'things we perceive out there' are actually our mind layering information from various feedback loops onto our conscious experience (it's my current working model for 'chi'). When working with that model, tho, I don't think we can limit ourselves to a binary 'purely external sense-data source' vs 'purely internal representation outwardly projected' choice.
It's probably some combination of the two (if our model is accurate).
As to the idea of 'holographic personality copies', I think that this line from an interview between Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett sums that up best:
Quote
Neil Gaiman: Did you really say in a previous interview that you'd like to be like Sam Vines? Why?
Terry Pratchett: I don't think I actually said that, but you know how it is and 'how it is' changes as you get older. The author can always delve into his own personality and find aspects of himself with which he can dress his characters. If you pushed me I would say that ever since I stood up and talked about my Alzheimer's I have been a public figure; I visited Downing Street twice, wrote angry letters to the Times, got into debates in the House of Commons, and generally became a geezer to the extent that I sit here sometimes bewildered and think to myself, "Actually, your job is to sit here writing another book. Changing the world is for other people . . ." and then I come back to myself with, "No it isn't!" And so, bearing in mind that these days, people call a kid from the council houses "Sir" allows me to create a mindset for Vimes.
Neil Gaiman: When you put your Vimes-writing head on, is there a difference in the way you view the world to, say, when you're in your Rincewind-writing head, or your Granny Weatherwax-writing head?
Terry Pratchett: Oh, yes, surely you know how it is. Once you have your character sitting right there in your head, all you really need to do is wind them up, put them down, and simply write down what they do, say, or think. It really is like that. It verges on the weird; you know you are doing the thinking, but the thinking is being driven by the Sam Vimes module. There is also a fully functioning Tiffany Aching module, too, which is rather strange.
I don't necessarily agree that it's a 'holographic' function, but the behavior is there to be used (much like we as humans have co-opted our brain's taste-network to help is make moral decisions about imagined actions).
As many times before, some of my favourite writers said it ten times clearer than i ever could :)
I am going to reread the hollow man the moment i find it again (my library is spread over a couple of houses, i'm pretty sure this one is at my mom's).
Tonight is the night!
I would stay up, only, I'm working tomorrow (actually working, as opposed to "being on call until 9pm, doing an hour of work and going to bed").
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEK17FdSMY
It's totally the night! I have not purchased a sound recording device, but I am going to try to stay up and see if I hear it this year. It's also almost time for the VEHICLE OF CACOPHONY!
I believe in ghosts, or at the very least negative/positive energy influences. My house right now is FULL of negativity, and because I feel uncomfortable, I see/hear shit. I'm smudging the fuck out of this place when I clean tomorrow so nothing follows me.
But as far as hauntings go, I'm pretty sure that the house I lived in when I first moved to Providence with Herbert was haunted. Toooo many creepy things happened there. Like the bed depressing next to me with no one home.
This is also New England, and there's not much room for skeptics up here. "The mall is haunted!" "The school is haunted!" "The parking lot that used to be a gas station before it was Dunkin Donuts that was torn down 20 years ago is haunted because before the gas station some guy had a house and he drowned in the bathtub!"
Do you mean those digital recorders, Nigel? You can get all kinds of weird shit on digital, I've had things that sounded like footsteps, typewriters clacking, people swearing. I was sitting right there recording and didn't hear anything but it all came up on the recorder. I'd hesitate to call it ghosts, it could just be some defect in digital that makes weird noises and my brain interprets it as this or that. I know one time I was doing this and the dogs started barking, when I played it back I could hear some guy going "MOTHERFUCKER! MOTHERFUCKER!" every time the dogs barked. :lulz:
Digital cameras are the same way, that's where people always get the weird effects.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on October 29, 2011, 04:32:39 PM
Do you mean those digital recorders, Nigel? You can get all kinds of weird shit on digital, I've had things that sounded like footsteps, typewriters clacking, people swearing. I was sitting right there recording and didn't hear anything but it all came up on the recorder. I'd hesitate to call it ghosts, it could just be some defect in digital that makes weird noises and my brain interprets it as this or that. I know one time I was doing this and the dogs started barking, when I played it back I could hear some guy going "MOTHERFUCKER! MOTHERFUCKER!" every time the dogs barked. :lulz:
Digital cameras are the same way, that's where people always get the weird effects.
I was thinking more like a tape recorder... I haven't bought a recording device since I was in college 20 years ago, to tell the truth.
don;'t you have a phone with a memo recorder or video recorder function?
[of course then the iffy part is getting the recorded file to a computer, which can be difficult on older models]
Radioshack still has both cassette and digital http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?s=A-StorePrice-RSK&categoryId=4018812&camp=PPC%3AGoogle%3AHome&Office%3ABroad=&pg=1&searchSort=TRUE&retainProdsInSession=1
If you can find a store that doesn't get much business they probably have a lot of stuff like this on clearance.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 29, 2011, 04:40:05 PM
don;'t you have a phone with a memo recorder or video recorder function?
[of course then the iffy part is getting the recorded file to a computer, which can be difficult on older models]
Yeah, I have an iPhone. So if I am downstairs I can totally hit the button. I was thinking more along the lines of leaving a recorder on when I went to bed though.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on October 29, 2011, 04:54:45 PM
Radioshack still has both cassette and digital http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?s=A-StorePrice-RSK&categoryId=4018812&camp=PPC%3AGoogle%3AHome&Office%3ABroad=&pg=1&searchSort=TRUE&retainProdsInSession=1
If you can find a store that doesn't get much business they probably have a lot of stuff like this on clearance.
There's a Radio Shack near me... I wish I wasn't so broke! I'd really like to get something along the lines of the recorder I had when I was in college.
Call 'em up and ask 'em if they have any of that stuff on clearance. I've seen recorders marked down as low as five bucks.
They used to be able to check inventory for the whole district and if something you wanted was at another store, they'd have it sent over. Might still do that...
So, what happened?
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2011, 11:02:19 AM
So, what happened?
Nothing whatsoever, as far as I can remember. Not even a goddamn thing. I remember waking up at one point thinking that my housemate had come home, but that was it.
My son crashed out on the couch, and he doesn't remember hearing anything either.
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2011, 12:22:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 31, 2011, 11:02:19 AM
So, what happened?
Nothing whatsoever, as far as I can remember. Not even a goddamn thing. I remember waking up at one point thinking that my housemate had come home, but that was it.
I just remembered I dreamed about this and you (or your house) (which I don't know) and something happening.
Except the ghost had a garden hose.
I'm not sure if I dreamt it on the correct night, but for the sake of paranormal research, I'm assuming I did.
A ghost with a garden hose! EFO and I were just talking about a photo shoot with a guy in a plastic fireman hat sitting on a tricycle holding a garden hose.