http://tweetagewasteland.com/2011/11/something-disintegrates-at-a-burger-king/
Somethingsomething expectation of privacy somethingsomething ubiquitous technology something social media something gossip vulture something Strange Times something.
DISCUSS.
:lulz:
Burger King doesn't count as private.
If I was that couple, I'd have stopped fighting with each other and proceeded to kick the snot out of that guy. And after I was done, the only place his smartphone would be tweeting from would be the inside of his rectum.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on November 11, 2011, 12:17:14 PM
:lulz:
Burger King doesn't count as private.
Legally, no.
But just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Some people said they got what they had coming because the loud fight was disturbing to other people. I say there's two ways to deal with that, 1 mind your own business or 2 walk up to them and tell them to take their BS elsewhere. Option 3 gather all your friends to get some popcorn and watch the marital fight (or the global 21st century digital equivalent thereof) is IMO a perfectly justifiable reason for getting your ass kicked, like ECH said.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 01:00:17 PM
If I was that couple, I'd have stopped fighting with each other and proceeded to kick the snot out of that guy. And after I was done, the only place his smartphone would be tweeting from would be the inside of his rectum.
Yeah.
Except I'm not sure they were aware of the fact at that point.
:lulz: I think it's funny, and that they deserved it. I can't stand people who argue loudly in restaurants.
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
One of my exes found it acceptible to argue loudly in public. Her rationale was that theyre all strangers who dont give a crap. It was a major contributing factor to our break up.
I once pointed out to a couple that i could see and hear them and they might want to take it elsewhere.
Other times i just thought it very loudly.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
They broke civility, and that doesn't mean it was necessary for that guy to break civility as well. One of the reasons we're in such a mess is people throw their shit around and are too self absorbed to be considerate of others.
If I were in the situation, I would have told them that their loud arguing was interrupting my ability to enjoy my meal. Usually if you say that without a hint of condescension, contempt or pretension people will be shocked into consideration and quiet down.
I would have openly stared until they noticed and got the message, resorting to consumption level coughing if necessary. I find that usually works. Though I gotta agree with Nigel that it was hilarious.
Staring doesnt always work. If theyre to self absorbed to notice that theyre being obnoxious in public they arent going to notice people looking at them. Though the coughing bit probably helps.
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on November 11, 2011, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
They broke civility, and that doesn't mean it was necessary for that guy to break civility as well. One of the reasons we're in such a mess is people throw their shit around and are too self absorbed to be considerate of others.
If I were in the situation, I would have told them that their loud arguing was interrupting my ability to enjoy my meal. Usually if you say that without a hint of condescension, contempt or pretension people will be shocked into consideration and quiet down.
Why is it less civil for him to describe the scene on Twitter than for anyone to describe any public scene on Twitter? I think this generation has become far too self-centered and self-absorbed, and never learned the age-old lesson to be careful what dirty laundry you air in public because it will soon be all over town. People in cities assume they have some kind of right to anonymity, whereas in a smaller community you would assume that any private matters you talked about loudly in public would quickly become public knowledge.
The couple made it public. What the public did with that is no longer under their control.
Tough fucking titties.
That being said, the guy who "tweeted" it is a shitbag, too.
Yeah. It would have been netter if he went up to their table and started breakdancing for them instead.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
The couple made it public. What the public did with that is no longer under their control.
Tough fucking titties.
That being said, the guy who "tweeted" it is a shitbag, too.
I think that including personally identifying pictures and video was a bit much, but that otherwise, telling the story online of someone making a public spectacle right in front of you is perfectly fine.
I think that's where I draw the line. The PI. Otherwise, it's fair game.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on November 11, 2011, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
They broke civility, and that doesn't mean it was necessary for that guy to break civility as well. One of the reasons we're in such a mess is people throw their shit around and are too self absorbed to be considerate of others.
If I were in the situation, I would have told them that their loud arguing was interrupting my ability to enjoy my meal. Usually if you say that without a hint of condescension, contempt or pretension people will be shocked into consideration and quiet down.
Why is it less civil for him to describe the scene on Twitter than for anyone to describe any public scene on Twitter? I think this generation has become far too self-centered and self-absorbed, and never learned the age-old lesson to be careful what dirty laundry you air in public because it will soon be all over town. People in cities assume they have some kind of right to anonymity, whereas in a smaller community you would assume that any private matters you talked about loudly in public would quickly become public knowledge.
Well, it's an implicit social convention in cities compared to smaller communities. People do it to cope with the fact that they're all living really closely spaced. In a smaller community the assumption would have indeed been otherwise, and so the couple might have acted differently, too. Though there's no way to tell of course.
Another part of the story is that the Twitterer is a journalist/webdeveloper at the Boston Globe with loads of followers. He now removed that info from his profile as people started questioning the ethics of the ordeal. He might have been trying to distance his personal twitter from his professional life, but for journalists it doesn't always work that way.
It might not have gone as viral as it did, ending up being featured on ABC news, if it weren't for that little fact and it had just been some random dude tweeting.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 07:01:59 PM
I think that including personally identifying pictures and video was a bit much, but that otherwise, telling the story online of someone making a public spectacle right in front of you is perfectly fine.
Absolutely, also that. It wasn't so much that he told the story, but the level by which he broadcasted the non-event, in video, for the whole world to see.
Even if I wasn't in a verbal fight, if someone would video+audio me having a discussion with someone in a public space, without my knowledge and tweet it to the world, I'd feel violated too. Even if that's apparently legal because it's a public space.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on November 11, 2011, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
They broke civility, and that doesn't mean it was necessary for that guy to break civility as well. One of the reasons we're in such a mess is people throw their shit around and are too self absorbed to be considerate of others.
If I were in the situation, I would have told them that their loud arguing was interrupting my ability to enjoy my meal. Usually if you say that without a hint of condescension, contempt or pretension people will be shocked into consideration and quiet down.
Why is it less civil for him to describe the scene on Twitter than for anyone to describe any public scene on Twitter? I think this generation has become far too self-centered and self-absorbed, and never learned the age-old lesson to be careful what dirty laundry you air in public because it will soon be all over town. People in cities assume they have some kind of right to anonymity, whereas in a smaller community you would assume that any private matters you talked about loudly in public would quickly become public knowledge.
Because the civil thing is to ignore other people's personal matters that don't concern you (with exception of people coming to physical harm, in which case it's the utmost civility for you to step in and stop it). It's not about not airing dirty laundry in public out of worry someone might hear and gossip it, it's about not making a public nuisance and disturbing other people for stupid reasons.
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 11, 2011, 07:18:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on November 11, 2011, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 05:56:23 PM
I mean, they were already making a spectacle of themselves.
They broke civility, and that doesn't mean it was necessary for that guy to break civility as well. One of the reasons we're in such a mess is people throw their shit around and are too self absorbed to be considerate of others.
If I were in the situation, I would have told them that their loud arguing was interrupting my ability to enjoy my meal. Usually if you say that without a hint of condescension, contempt or pretension people will be shocked into consideration and quiet down.
Why is it less civil for him to describe the scene on Twitter than for anyone to describe any public scene on Twitter? I think this generation has become far too self-centered and self-absorbed, and never learned the age-old lesson to be careful what dirty laundry you air in public because it will soon be all over town. People in cities assume they have some kind of right to anonymity, whereas in a smaller community you would assume that any private matters you talked about loudly in public would quickly become public knowledge.
Well, it's an implicit social convention in cities compared to smaller communities. People do it to cope with the fact that they're all living really closely spaced. In a smaller community the assumption would have indeed been otherwise, and so the couple might have acted differently, too. Though there's no way to tell of course.
Another part of the story is that the Twitterer is a journalist/webdeveloper at the Boston Globe with loads of followers. He now removed that info from his profile as people started questioning the ethics of the ordeal. He might have been trying to distance his personal twitter from his professional life, but for journalists it doesn't always work that way.
It might not have gone as viral as it did, ending up being featured on ABC news, if it weren't for that little fact and it had just been some random dude tweeting.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 07:01:59 PM
I think that including personally identifying pictures and video was a bit much, but that otherwise, telling the story online of someone making a public spectacle right in front of you is perfectly fine.
Absolutely, also that. It wasn't so much that he told the story, but the level by which he broadcasted the non-event, in video, for the whole world to see.
Even if I wasn't in a verbal fight, if someone would video+audio me having a discussion with someone in a public space, without my knowledge and tweet it to the world, I'd feel violated too. Even if that's apparently legal because it's a public space.
Ah, I should have read the article. I didn't realize the guy was a journalist; that changes things. I mean, if I Tweeted something only my followers (who are mostly my friends) would ever see it, but if I was a journalist with thousands of followers and a professional reputation, no way in hell.
Right now about 4000 followers. Though it's impossible to say how many of those followed him because of this debacle. And 4000 is not that much for a "Twitter celeb", but not bad either.
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 11, 2011, 09:18:30 PM
Right now about 4000 followers. Though it's impossible to say how many of those followed him because of this debacle. And 4000 is not that much for a "Twitter celeb", but not bad either.
It's not bad at all.
I'm going to stand by my opinion that other than that and the PI, merely tweeting some obnoxious public spat isn't wrong. In my opinion I do worse than that when I share the emails sent me by hopeful Craigslist pervs.
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
I think that's where I draw the line. The PI. Otherwise, it's fair game.
Well yeah, that's kind of my point. You can tweet about what I'm doing all day long if you find it interesting. As soon as you include pictures/video of me you are using my likeness without permission and I'm going to break your phone, and quite probably some of the fingers you're using to hold it.
That's how ECH does intellectual property law. None of this silly "lawyer" crap. :)
ETA: to clarify, "you" does not mean "you, Nigel" as you are my friend and I trust that if you want to tweet pics or video of me it's because they're hilarious and I'm OK with that. It's a general "you, asshole with the smartphone pointed at me".
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 09:21:51 PM
I'm going to stand by my opinion that other than that and the PI, merely tweeting some obnoxious public spat isn't wrong. In my opinion I do worse than that when I share the emails sent me by hopeful Craigslist pervs.
Yeah. Agreed.
Though what if somehow Reddit pics up on a screenshot of one of your wonderfully skilled CL antics and it goes viral?
C'est la vie, I guess?
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
I think that's where I draw the line. The PI. Otherwise, it's fair game.
Well yeah, that's kind of my point. You can tweet about what I'm doing all day long if you find it interesting. As soon as you include pictures/video of me you are using my likeness without permission and I'm going to break your phone, and quite probably some of the fingers you're using to hold it.
That's how ECH does intellectual property law. None of this silly "lawyer" crap. :)
Where do you draw the line, though? Photographs? The person who takes the picture owns the copyright to it. You can copyright a likeness under certain circumstances but original photographs aren't one of them.
People take pictures of other people in public all the time, and post them to their Twitter/Facebook/blog feeds. They take video of people making scenes in public. So the moral/ethical line isn't that clean cut to me.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 07:02:30 PM
I think that's where I draw the line. The PI. Otherwise, it's fair game.
Well yeah, that's kind of my point. You can tweet about what I'm doing all day long if you find it interesting. As soon as you include pictures/video of me you are using my likeness without permission and I'm going to break your phone, and quite probably some of the fingers you're using to hold it.
That's how ECH does intellectual property law. None of this silly "lawyer" crap. :)
ETA: to clarify, "you" does not mean "you, Nigel" as you are my friend and I trust that if you want to tweet pics or video of me it's because they're hilarious and I'm OK with that. It's a general "you, asshole with the smartphone pointed at me".
I did not think you meant you would break my fingers. :)
I don't care what the law has to say about it. If I catch someone I don't know taking my picture or videotaping me without my permission (outside of the context of, say, a wedding or something like that), I'm going to give them the chance to delete the pics/video without incident and if they refuse, I'm perfectly willing to use physical violence.
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 11, 2011, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 09:21:51 PM
I'm going to stand by my opinion that other than that and the PI, merely tweeting some obnoxious public spat isn't wrong. In my opinion I do worse than that when I share the emails sent me by hopeful Craigslist pervs.
Yeah. Agreed.
Though what if somehow Reddit pics up on a screenshot of one of your wonderfully skilled CL antics and it goes viral?
C'est la vie, I guess?
:lulz: That could be pretty funny.
Hey, remember a few months ago, the older guy who WOULD NOT QUIT emailing me trying to guilt-trip and pressure me into going out with him? He must be on CL 24/7 because he responded to the ad Roger wrote for me, and then he said "You posted an earlier ad where you said you were 38, didn't you?" then asked my real age. I told him I was 14, but only inside, and he said "you're really 40, aren't you?"
and I said "not for long!" and he disappeared.
:lulz: I feel like tailoring a troll to him specially.
DO IT.
Then, when he shows up to meet "you", I can be waiting there in a stunning vinyl miniskirt and push-up bra.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 10:31:05 PM
DO IT.
Then, when he shows up to meet "you", I can be waiting there in a stunning vinyl miniskirt and push-up bra.
:fap:
This is the best idea EVER.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 10:31:05 PM
DO IT.
Then, when he shows up to meet "you", I can be waiting there in a stunning vinyl miniskirt and push-up bra.
Might have to break quite a few fingers that evening.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on November 11, 2011, 10:31:05 PM
DO IT.
Then, when he shows up to meet "you", I can be waiting there in a stunning vinyl miniskirt and push-up bra.
THERE GOES MY HERO...
Quote from: Nigel on November 11, 2011, 09:29:47 PM
Where do you draw the line, though? Photographs? The person who takes the picture owns the copyright to it. You can copyright a likeness under certain circumstances but original photographs aren't one of them.
People take pictures of other people in public all the time, and post them to their Twitter/Facebook/blog feeds. They take video of people making scenes in public. So the moral/ethical line isn't that clean cut to me.
It's tricky indeed.
Video with audio of a conversation that I assumed to be private would probably cross the line. Depending on the subject, probably not any finger-breaking line though.
I mean--stepping away from the very loud fight example of the OP for now--if I'm sitting in a Burger King, which is a public place, with a friend having a normal/quiet
1 conversation, someone on the table next to us could probably eavesdrop if they tried. While possibly annoying, what are you gonna do? But if they start to fucking
record it, they do cross a line, maybe not legally, but definitely per social norms, IMO.
Audio without video of such a conversation is even creepier, for some reason.
Just video would just show two dudes talking.
1 different for Americans in a European Burger King. I don't need to eavesdrop, I can hear you word for word without trying or even wanting to. You just happen to talk louder, okay? :-)
If the neighbors fight, I can hear it. Never mind Burger King, if you argue at home and you don't live in the boonies, it's not private.
The nature of a heated argument is that people raise their voices. And this gets the attention of nearby people, at the very least they talk about it, they might call the police. People in cities talk, too. It might not get back to you the way it does in small towns, they might not know your name, but you can bet they'll be sitting at the bus stop or in the break room yammering about the arguing couple and the shit they said to each other.
Tweeting about it shouldn't be any different, if it's just somebody tweeting their friends. A journalist tweeting and taking pics is FUCKED, though. I guess they're trained to go after this dumbass filler these days and Britney hasn't done anything particularly screwy for awhile. That's why ABC picked it up. It's not like they have some duty to inform the public anout anything IMPORTANT, y'know? Welcome to the 21st century, welcome to the monkey house and all that.
Fuckers.
Man, I loved how that guy was all "You keep arguing with me so you must be interested" and I was all "Actually, it's just that I have this writing project where I chronicle my stupid dating stories, and I was going to cut you loose but my audience is demanding more" and then he vanished.
Asshole. I truly hate that guy, and I've never even met him.
A custom tailored troll is definitely in order, then. And ECH in a stunning vinyl miniskirt and pushup bra.
I'll be home on monday. :)
I think I speak for all of us when I ask for photographic evidence of said event.
YES.
:lulz: If we actually manage to land this fucker, pics WILL be taken. Because, AWESOME.
But it might be tricky because he won't send me a pic, so I have no idea what he looks like.