A really interesting discussion by PZ Myers. (http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/12/21/why-do-women-menstruate/)
I especially appreciate that the discussion doesn't include any evolutionary psychology, a field wrought with just so stories. Instead, he draws on comparative biology and physiology to provide some hypotheses for what might seem outwardly to be a selective detriment. I'm not going to try to summarize his excellent summary here, except to say that the most supported hypothesis deals with the production of the thickened endometrial lining, either before or in response to a fertilized zygote, and the adversarial nature of the mother-fetal relationship. It reminds me very much of sexual selection and sexual "arms races" between males and females of the same species.
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
Fetuses certainly sound more like parasites after reading this.
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on December 22, 2011, 12:05:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
Fetuses certainly sound more like parasites after reading this.
Well, strictly speaking, they are.
At least as I interpret "parasite".
Later on, in the teenage years, there is no doubt whatsoever.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
EFO punched me until I had bruises, the little bitch. And then, when she was big enough, she would brace her head against one side and her feet against the other side and try to STRAIGHTEN OUT. She was born enraged, wouldn't smile or look at me for months, and doesn't cry tears.
Babies are definitely spiteful and out to kill their host.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 22, 2011, 12:09:47 AM
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on December 22, 2011, 12:05:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
Fetuses certainly sound more like parasites after reading this.
Well, strictly speaking, they are.
At least as I interpret "parasite".
Later on, in the teenage years, there is no doubt whatsoever.
At least teenagers are funny.
Fetuses are not funny.
Quote from: Nigel on December 22, 2011, 12:30:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
EFO punched me until I had bruises, the little bitch. And then, when she was big enough, she would brace her head against one side and her feet against the other side and try to STRAIGHTEN OUT. She was born enraged, wouldn't smile or look at me for months, and doesn't cry tears.
Except for that one time. You wanted to/did take a picture of it.
Quote
Babies are definitely spiteful and out to kill their host.
Oh my god yes they are and yes they do.
Quote from: Science me, babby on December 22, 2011, 12:32:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on December 22, 2011, 12:30:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 21, 2011, 10:25:15 PM
It was quite interesting. I don't really have the background to say much more, really, but thanks for the link!
Also, :x now fetuses sound kind of terrifying.
They probably sit in there laughing at their host.
I know I did.
EFO punched me until I had bruises, the little bitch. And then, when she was big enough, she would brace her head against one side and her feet against the other side and try to STRAIGHTEN OUT. She was born enraged, wouldn't smile or look at me for months, and doesn't cry tears.
Except for that one time. You wanted to/did take a picture of it.
YES
She was three, and it was before the era of affordable digital cameras but I took, and still have, a Polaroid of the single tear that rolled down her face in 2001.
I started reading the article, figuring it was another piece on how there is no biological reason for a woman to have her period and you can stop it with pills yadda yadda.
Now I'm inexplicably horrified of pregnancy.
I think a fetus being described as an invasive, blood stealing parasite your body has to practice menstrual kung fu for decades for is a good reason to be horrified.
Really, though, it's only horrifying if we accept the adversarial language the article has burdened it with. I mean, I played along with that too, but honestly (as inconvenient as it is) should we be horrified, or feel enmity toward, a highly effective reproductive process which helps our bodies select for healthier offspring? We love to think of ourselves as individuals but we are also members of a species, and as such our purpose is largely to perpetuate the species, which is not necessarily a bad thing (even though we are fairly good at making it a bad thing).
Quote from: Nigel on December 23, 2011, 01:14:29 AM
Really, though, it's only horrifying if we accept the adversarial language the article has burdened it with. I mean, I played along with that too, but honestly (as inconvenient as it is) should we be horrified, or feel enmity toward, a highly effective reproductive process which helps our bodies select for healthier offspring? We love to think of ourselves as individuals but we are also members of a species, and as such our purpose is largely to perpetuate the species, which is not necessarily a bad thing (even though we are fairly good at making it a bad thing).
Of course I can't speak for women, but you could also say that things that are worthy and rewarding, are often difficult and hard. And what's more rewarding (and hard) than making a new tiny little human?
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 23, 2011, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 23, 2011, 01:14:29 AM
Really, though, it's only horrifying if we accept the adversarial language the article has burdened it with. I mean, I played along with that too, but honestly (as inconvenient as it is) should we be horrified, or feel enmity toward, a highly effective reproductive process which helps our bodies select for healthier offspring? We love to think of ourselves as individuals but we are also members of a species, and as such our purpose is largely to perpetuate the species, which is not necessarily a bad thing (even though we are fairly good at making it a bad thing).
Of course I can't speak for women, but you could also say that things that are worthy and rewarding, are often difficult and hard. And what's more rewarding (and hard) than making a new tiny little human?
Nothing that I've found so far. They're pretty neat, parasitic or not.
I'm not saying that I, personally, agree with the fetuses-are-invasive-parasites language or that we should feel actually threatened. I'm just saying that the language *of* the article makes sense for Suu's comment.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 23, 2011, 08:48:13 PM
I'm not saying that I, personally, agree with the fetuses-are-invasive-parasites language or that we should feel actually threatened. I'm just saying that the language *of* the article makes sense for Suu's comment.
Yes, it completely does... that's what I meant to say here:
QuoteQuote from: Nigel on December 23, 2011, 01:14:29 AM
Really, though, it's only horrifying if we accept the adversarial language the article has burdened it with. I mean, I played along with that too, but honestly (as inconvenient as it is) should we be horrified, or feel enmity toward, a highly effective reproductive process which helps our bodies select for healthier offspring? We love to think of ourselves as individuals but we are also members of a species, and as such our purpose is largely to perpetuate the species, which is not necessarily a bad thing (even though we are fairly good at making it a bad thing).
I have some trouble with the wording of the article.