I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, and many of you have probably seen it, but this toy isle rant warms my heart. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-CU040Hqbas) Riley, at the age of four, already understands the manipulation involved in gender marketing of goods, and thinks it's stupid.
But of course when any female comes out and complains about gender stereotypes you know there is going to be mansplaining. (http://weareskeptixx.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/whats-small-and-cute-and-pink-all-over/) Which includes a takedown of said mansplaining. My favorite part is where he tries to use circular reasoning to explain why girls like pink things (because they buy pink things, apparently).
And another by Rebecca Watson (http://skepchick.org/2012/01/intellectual-cage-match-ben-radford-vs-a-4-year-old/), who if you don't recall, was one of Dawkins' target of ire after Elevatorgate and the birth of the Dawkins Fallacy.
Dude, when that kid is writing columns I'm going to totally follow her work.
Skeptixx really disappointed me on a number of levels. The main one was the circular reasoning. Still reading, probably more thoughts to come.
THIS
QuoteBut what about pink toys for girls? It's an interesting question, and there are several answers. One obvious reason is that dolls are by far the most popular toys for girls. What color are most dolls? Pink, or roughly Caucasian skin-toned. There are, of course, dolls of varying skin tones and ethnicities. But since most girls play with dolls, and most dolls are pink (a green- or blue-skinned doll would look creepy), it makes perfect sense that most girls' toys are pink.
...is making me want to punch people in the face, because the pinkish skin tone of Caucasian babies has nothing to do with the boxes, clothing, and accessories being pink.
OHHHHHHHH I got to the end and realized that the founder of Skeptixx is rebutting that argument THANK FUCK REDEEMED. Sigh of relief. I was full of haterage.
Also. HELLO 1981! Lets bring back some of that good old-fashioned unisex marketing:
(http://owtk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Vintage-Lego-Girl-Ad.jpg)
Love that image. So fucking cute!
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
THIS
QuoteBut what about pink toys for girls? It's an interesting question, and there are several answers. One obvious reason is that dolls are by far the most popular toys for girls. What color are most dolls? Pink, or roughly Caucasian skin-toned. There are, of course, dolls of varying skin tones and ethnicities. But since most girls play with dolls, and most dolls are pink (a green- or blue-skinned doll would look creepy), it makes perfect sense that most girls' toys are pink.
...is making me want to punch people in the face, because the pinkish skin tone of Caucasian babies has nothing to do with the boxes, clothing, and accessories being pink.
Yeah, I found that point particularly retarded, especially when the kid in the video is standing in front of a whole fuckton of pink boxes of pink dolls wearing pink dresses. O.o That Ben fellow ain't too savvy.
I don't think Riley is particularly super for her age. I do think it is interesting that the obvious disparity in toys and implied gender roles is so blatant and obnoxiously outdated that even a four-year-old notices and is annoyed by it.
HOT FUCK
I loved Rebecca Watson's takedown
WELL DONE, LADY!
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 03, 2012, 04:16:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
THIS
QuoteBut what about pink toys for girls? It's an interesting question, and there are several answers. One obvious reason is that dolls are by far the most popular toys for girls. What color are most dolls? Pink, or roughly Caucasian skin-toned. There are, of course, dolls of varying skin tones and ethnicities. But since most girls play with dolls, and most dolls are pink (a green- or blue-skinned doll would look creepy), it makes perfect sense that most girls' toys are pink.
...is making me want to punch people in the face, because the pinkish skin tone of Caucasian babies has nothing to do with the boxes, clothing, and accessories being pink.
Yeah, I found that point particularly retarded, especially when the kid in the video is standing in front of a whole fuckton of pink boxes of pink dolls wearing pink dresses. O.o That Ben fellow ain't too savvy.
I don't think Riley is particularly super for her age. I do think it is interesting that the obvious disparity in toys and implied gender roles is so blatant and obnoxiously outdated that even a four-year-old notices and is annoyed by it.
I have known a fuckton of four-year-olds, and what makes Riley different isn't that she's noticed how annoying it is, but that her parents haven't explained it away, told her it's "right", or quashed her dissent, AND that they are obviously very proud and encouraging of her critical thoughts. It literally brings a tear to my eye.
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:21:22 AM
HOT FUCK
I loved Rebecca Watson's takedown
WELL DONE, LADY!
Yeah, this.
I picked up about half of the stupid in Ben's argument, then read Rebecca's going "WAIT, HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT TOO, DIDN'T HE? GREAT SCOTT." :eek:
I posted the link on my fb a week or so ago with my own rant.
Basically, we're being coralled from the moment we're born into $6,000 wedding dresses and eventually, Target's baby registry. It was true in the 1950s, it's true now.
Oh hey, guess what? Ben responds to Rebecca, with more of the same. (http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/rebecca_and_riley_tempest_in_a_dolls_tea_party/) Read the comments if you're looking for a reason to grit your teeth. Also, notice the "Watson/Myers cult" comment; what does that sound similar to? Oh right, MIND CONTROL LAZERS. And while I will say that I often disagree with PZ Myers, he and the rest of the Skepchick community (including Watson, Bug Girl and others) are always right on the ball about gender issues and the typical, ordinary sort of misogyny which continues in our society. I have and continue to use them as a barometer for this stuff.
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on January 03, 2012, 07:17:51 PM
Oh hey, guess what? Ben responds to Rebecca, with more of the same. (http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/rebecca_and_riley_tempest_in_a_dolls_tea_party/) Read the comments if you're looking for a reason to grit your teeth. Also, notice the "Watson/Myers cult" comment; what does that sound similar to? Oh right, MIND CONTROL LAZERS. And while I will say that I often disagree with PZ Myers, he and the rest of the Skepchick community (including Watson, Bug Girl and others) are always right on the ball about gender issues and the typical, ordinary sort of misogyny which continues in our society. I have and continue to use them as a barometer for this stuff.
OH MY GOD THAT GUY IS AN IDIOT. He seems somehow incapable of actually recognizing an actual point, let alone rebutting one.
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:24:06 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 03, 2012, 04:16:19 AM
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
THIS
QuoteBut what about pink toys for girls? It's an interesting question, and there are several answers. One obvious reason is that dolls are by far the most popular toys for girls. What color are most dolls? Pink, or roughly Caucasian skin-toned. There are, of course, dolls of varying skin tones and ethnicities. But since most girls play with dolls, and most dolls are pink (a green- or blue-skinned doll would look creepy), it makes perfect sense that most girls' toys are pink.
...is making me want to punch people in the face, because the pinkish skin tone of Caucasian babies has nothing to do with the boxes, clothing, and accessories being pink.
Yeah, I found that point particularly retarded, especially when the kid in the video is standing in front of a whole fuckton of pink boxes of pink dolls wearing pink dresses. O.o That Ben fellow ain't too savvy.
I don't think Riley is particularly super for her age. I do think it is interesting that the obvious disparity in toys and implied gender roles is so blatant and obnoxiously outdated that even a four-year-old notices and is annoyed by it.
I have known a fuckton of four-year-olds, and what makes Riley different isn't that she's noticed how annoying it is, but that her parents haven't explained it away, told her it's "right", or quashed her dissent, AND that they are obviously very proud and encouraging of her critical thoughts. It literally brings a tear to my eye.
Yes. Her parents are not idiots. This I can get behind. :D
http://mohandasgandhi.tumblr.com/post/15242464246/dear-customer-who-stuck-up-for-his-little-brother
For the opposite perspective, a boy that wanted to play a girl in a video game.
That was AWESOME.
Quote from: Suu on January 05, 2012, 03:39:30 PM
http://mohandasgandhi.tumblr.com/post/15242464246/dear-customer-who-stuck-up-for-his-little-brother
For the opposite perspective, a boy that wanted to play a girl in a video game.
I loved that.
It reminds me a bit of my sister and I when we wanted to play sports, and my dad's family was adamantly against it. Same concept.
I love that the gender lines are starting to be blurred. I see no reason why a kid can't have a purple controller and kick much ass as a girl in a video game, or a girl kicking much ass in football.
I don't know about other women my age, but when I was a little girl in the 80s, I had tons of Matchbox cars and Hot Wheels (you know, when they made them out of metal and you could do serious damage throwing them at someone? Lol.) And Legos, oh I love Legos...so I love that ad!
Also relevant; gender discussions in a grade one classroom:
http://togetherforjacksoncountykids.tumblr.com/post/14314184651/one-teachers-approach-to-preventing-gender-bullying-in
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:15:55 AM
Also. HELLO 1981! Lets bring back some of that good old-fashioned unisex marketing:
(http://owtk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Vintage-Lego-Girl-Ad.jpg)
Love that image. So fucking cute!
Sorry, Nigel...
http://jezebel.com/5868334/lego-targets-girls-with-pink-blocks-cute-figures--no-creativity (http://jezebel.com/5868334/lego-targets-girls-with-pink-blocks-cute-figures--no-creativity)
Heard about this a few back. Girls like to role play, you see. And they want bigger Lego people with cuter and more expressive features.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on January 06, 2012, 09:52:56 AM
Quote from: Nigel on January 03, 2012, 04:15:55 AM
Also. HELLO 1981! Lets bring back some of that good old-fashioned unisex marketing:
(http://owtk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Vintage-Lego-Girl-Ad.jpg)
Love that image. So fucking cute!
Sorry, Nigel...
http://jezebel.com/5868334/lego-targets-girls-with-pink-blocks-cute-figures--no-creativity (http://jezebel.com/5868334/lego-targets-girls-with-pink-blocks-cute-figures--no-creativity)
Heard about this a few back. Girls like to role play, you see. And they want bigger Lego people with cuter and more expressive features.
No need to apologize... my approval was for the unisex ad campaigns of the 70's-80's, not for the brand.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on January 06, 2012, 08:24:55 AM
Also relevant; gender discussions in a grade one classroom:
http://togetherforjacksoncountykids.tumblr.com/post/14314184651/one-teachers-approach-to-preventing-gender-bullying-in
That was really awesome... I really like to see people expressing and teaching that it's OK to do what you like to do and be how you like to be regardless of whether you have female biology or male biology. I think that often, people grow up to resent their bodies because it's culturally ingrained from such an incredibly early age that "you can't do that because you're (not that sex)."