There are 6 privately-traded major media outlets left in the USA:
Newscorp (New York Post/The Times, Harper Collins, Fox TV, Fox News)
Vivendi/Universal (Vivendinet, Canal, Universal, Vivendi Telecom, United Cinemas)
Viacom (United Cinemas, Infinity, Paramount, CBS, MTV, VH1, GAC, CMT)
Disney (Disney Group, ABC/ESPN, Touchstone, Resorts)
Time Warner (Warner Bros, CNN, NBC, MSNBC, Turner Entertainment, AOL, Life Books, Time)
Bertelsmann (Channel 6, Lycos, Random House, BMG)
Between them, they own
97 television networks/channels
85 television stations
43 TV/film production/distribution outlets
249 radio stations
31 newspapers
175 book labels/publishers
123 magazines
34 music labels
54 interactive companies
16 resorts/theme parks
Between them, and several of their overseas counterpart organizations (Qatar Media, for example) they get 75% of all advertising revenues in the world. That's 3/4 of all the advertisements in the world divided between less than 20 companies. Mind you, the other 14 companies together make less than Time/Warner, which itself makes less than Disney.
Wow.
I know you've mentioned this sort of thing several times before, but it really helps put it in perspective to see a list of names and how short it really is.
This is the sort of information that needs to be made into posters and the like.
Hmm, I'm wondering how this info could be used to tinker with the system a bit.
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Here's the thing.
Our economy is based on growth; not just profit, but continually larger profits. The stock market absolutely requires growth. After a certain point, the only way for a company to grow is to absorb its competitors. The inevitable result of that is acquisitions and mergers. Acquisitions and mergers lead to several large companies holding functional monopolies over the market. Furthermore, interlocking directorates mean that in many cases these corporate giants are collaborating with each other, not competing. Anti-trust laws used to limit how much control any one company had over the media... not anymore; thanks Telecommunications Act!
And they're not done merging, yet. No matter how big they get, they still have to keep growing, which explains a lot about our intensely militarized society and the reasons we have to keep going into other countries to "fight for democracy". At present, over 51% of the entire U.S. budget goes toward our military. And that military is fighting to "protect our interests", which really means to "gain access to resources and markets" for Big Corp. The U.S. government works for U.S. assets, not U.S. citizens.
Rah rah, go USA!
:horrormirth: PROUD TO BE AN AMMURIKAN!
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Whoops. Missed that.
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Here's the thing.
Our economy is based on growth; not just profit, but continually larger profits. The stock market absolutely requires growth. After a certain point, the only way for a company to grow is to absorb its competitors. The inevitable result of that is acquisitions and mergers. Acquisitions and mergers lead to several large companies holding functional monopolies over the market. Furthermore, interlocking directorates mean that in many cases these corporate giants are collaborating with each other, not competing. Anti-trust laws used to limit how much control any one company had over the media... not anymore; thanks Telecommunications Act!
And they're not done merging, yet. No matter how big they get, they still have to keep growing, which explains a lot about our intensely militarized society and the reasons we have to keep going into other countries to "fight for democracy". At present, over 51% of the entire U.S. budget goes toward our military. And that military is fighting to "protect our interests", which really means to "gain access to resources and markets" for Big Corp. The U.S. government works for U.S. assets, not U.S. citizens.
Rah rah, go USA!
In a nutshell, perfectly fucking illustrated, why capitalism is a fucking bombscare of a system and why it continues to get worse and only ever will, until the inevitable endgame conditions are met - one single human being, controlling all the resources on the planet. It might be the best we can come up with but that's it's one single plus point.
Legislative shit like monopolies and antitrust only work until the point where supercorporations become powerful enough to buy the legislature and the government (a necessary step in the growth of any organisation) It's a milestone in corporate growth - either they control the law or they cease to grow, thereby ducking out of the race and leaving their assets to a competitor, thus giving said competitor a leg up in their own assault.
Sooner or later military control becomes necessary, usually via the same control of government. We're seeing this already with a conspicuous percentage of global military action carried out in accordance with corporate interests in securing territories and resources required for continued expansion. I'm pretty sure this will continue to escalate until eventually we'll all be under a state of martial law. subject to execution for buying the wrong sneakers.
One interesting side of this would be a corporate world war which would be the result of a stalemate between two or three of the "last men standing" Imagine being conscripted to fight for the Macdonalds army, against the evil Burger King Empire - the uniforms alone would make this global carnage potentially hilarious :evil:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 27, 2012, 01:59:38 AM
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Whoops. Missed that.
It's a continuous process. I'm sure there are more mergers in the works right now; in five years I anticipate there being only two big corporations controlling major media.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Here's the thing.
Our economy is based on growth; not just profit, but continually larger profits. The stock market absolutely requires growth. After a certain point, the only way for a company to grow is to absorb its competitors. The inevitable result of that is acquisitions and mergers. Acquisitions and mergers lead to several large companies holding functional monopolies over the market. Furthermore, interlocking directorates mean that in many cases these corporate giants are collaborating with each other, not competing. Anti-trust laws used to limit how much control any one company had over the media... not anymore; thanks Telecommunications Act!
And they're not done merging, yet. No matter how big they get, they still have to keep growing, which explains a lot about our intensely militarized society and the reasons we have to keep going into other countries to "fight for democracy". At present, over 51% of the entire U.S. budget goes toward our military. And that military is fighting to "protect our interests", which really means to "gain access to resources and markets" for Big Corp. The U.S. government works for U.S. assets, not U.S. citizens.
Rah rah, go USA!
In a nutshell, perfectly fucking illustrated, why capitalism is a fucking bombscare of a system and why it continues to get worse and only ever will, until the inevitable endgame conditions are met - one single human being, controlling all the resources on the planet. It might be the best we can come up with but that's it's one single plus point.
Legislative shit like monopolies and antitrust only work until the point where supercorporations become powerful enough to buy the legislature and the government (a necessary step in the growth of any organisation) It's a milestone in corporate growth - either they control the law or they cease to grow, thereby ducking out of the race and leaving their assets to a competitor, thus giving said competitor a leg up in their own assault.
Sooner or later military control becomes necessary, usually via the same control of government. We're seeing this already with a conspicuous percentage of global military action carried out in accordance with corporate interests in securing territories and resources required for continued expansion. I'm pretty sure this will continue to escalate until eventually we'll all be under a state of martial law. subject to execution for buying the wrong sneakers.
One interesting side of this would be a corporate world war which would be the result of a stalemate between two or three of the "last men standing" Imagine being conscripted to fight for the Macdonalds army, against the evil Burger King Empire - the uniforms alone would make this global carnage potentially hilarious :evil:
You should read Jennifer Government; that's basically what it's about.
I didn't see clearchannel in that list, they own a ridiculous percentage of radio stations and billboard advertising.
It's interesting to think about where this is going economically, actually, because U.S. policy is currently so heavily oriented toward concentrating wealth in the megacorporations that it's at risk of destroying its own markets. Currently, these companies are increasing their profits by decreasing overhead and increasing the size of their holdings through mergers and acquisitions, more than through selling more product for more money; what happens when they have merged as much as they can merge and outsourced everything they can outsource? There will probably be some pretty serious efforts at growth through expansion over the next few decades, but there is a catch-22 involved there, because war is paid for by the government with tax revenue and war is terribly expensive. Corporations don't want to pay for the wars that secure them access to other nations' resources; that would cut into their growth and they must grow (show increasing profits) to retain their investors. The people pay for war. The endgame of war is national bankruptcy. The whole system is finite. Currently, the U.S. is the world's imperial bully; we spend six times as much as China on our military annually, more than the next 46 top-spending countries combined. But at some point, we run the serious risk of running out of money and credit to keep paying for our military strength and when that happens I don't anticipate the rest of the world tolerating our bullshit any more.
Quote from: Queen_Gogira on January 27, 2012, 03:11:28 PM
I didn't see clearchannel in that list, they own a ridiculous percentage of radio stations and billboard advertising.
That list doesn't include the ten companies that control 90% of radio broadcasting, of which Clear Channel is the largest. However, it would be misleading to stop there; Clear Channel is jointly owned by Bain Capital and Thomas H. Lee Partners. Bain Capital might sound familiar, as the company that Mitt Romney co-founded.
Radio is a relatively percentage of media in the U.S., which is why CC Media Holdings isn't included in the list of companies that control the majority of the media.
Quote from: Nigel on January 27, 2012, 03:13:41 PM
It's interesting to think about where this is going economically, actually, because U.S. policy is currently so heavily oriented toward concentrating wealth in the megacorporations that it's at risk of destroying its own markets. Currently, these companies are increasing their profits by decreasing overhead and increasing the size of their holdings through mergers and acquisitions, more than through selling more product for more money; what happens when they have merged as much as they can merge and outsourced everything they can outsource? There will probably be some pretty serious efforts at growth through expansion over the next few decades, but there is a catch-22 involved there, because war is paid for by the government with tax revenue and war is terribly expensive. Corporations don't want to pay for the wars that secure them access to other nations' resources; that would cut into their growth and they must grow (show increasing profits) to retain their investors. The people pay for war. The endgame of war is national bankruptcy. The whole system is finite. Currently, the U.S. is the world's imperial bully; we spend six times as much as China on our military annually, more than the next 46 top-spending countries combined. But at some point, we run the serious risk of running out of money and credit to keep paying for our military strength and when that happens I don't anticipate the rest of the world tolerating our bullshit any more.
Don't kid yourself. War is the single most profitable venture anyone can enter into. The hardest way to earn $100 bucks is to work for it. The easiest way is to shoot someone and take it*. Same with territory, resources and slave labour** Corporations are not against spending money (you have to speculate to accumulate) if the choice is between mobilising the troops and any other avenue whatsoever the smart money will always be on acquisition by armed robbery.
* given that you are in a position where you cannot be prosecuted for it, on account of the police belong to you
** "outsourcing" is the politically correct buzzword for "slavery" these days. From third world debt (indirect slavery cash cow) to "developing nations" - (direct slavery)
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 27, 2012, 03:13:41 PM
It's interesting to think about where this is going economically, actually, because U.S. policy is currently so heavily oriented toward concentrating wealth in the megacorporations that it's at risk of destroying its own markets. Currently, these companies are increasing their profits by decreasing overhead and increasing the size of their holdings through mergers and acquisitions, more than through selling more product for more money; what happens when they have merged as much as they can merge and outsourced everything they can outsource? There will probably be some pretty serious efforts at growth through expansion over the next few decades, but there is a catch-22 involved there, because war is paid for by the government with tax revenue and war is terribly expensive. Corporations don't want to pay for the wars that secure them access to other nations' resources; that would cut into their growth and they must grow (show increasing profits) to retain their investors. The people pay for war. The endgame of war is national bankruptcy. The whole system is finite. Currently, the U.S. is the world's imperial bully; we spend six times as much as China on our military annually, more than the next 46 top-spending countries combined. But at some point, we run the serious risk of running out of money and credit to keep paying for our military strength and when that happens I don't anticipate the rest of the world tolerating our bullshit any more.
Don't kid yourself. War is the single most profitable venture anyone can enter into. The hardest way to earn $100 bucks is to work for it. The easiest way is to shoot someone and take it*. Same with territory, resources and slave labour** Corporations are not against spending money (you have to speculate to accumulate) if the choice is between mobilising the troops and any other avenue whatsoever the smart money will always be on acquisition by armed robbery.
* given that you are in a position where you cannot be prosecuted for it, on account of the police belong to you
** "outsourcing" is the politically correct buzzword for "slavery" these days. From third world debt (indirect slavery cash cow) to "developing nations" - (direct slavery)
Don't condescend to me. You're completely ignoring economic reality. I'm not conjecturing here; war is not, in fact, endlessly sustainable, and our corporations are not paying for it; in fact, we're paying them via military contracting. War is highly profitable for private corporations and incurs massive debt for governments. Endless war is not sustainable, period. There is an endpoint; Either with complete global domination (unlikely) or with an economic collapse and a resulting eviction from the nations we occupy. Even with total global domination, the endpoint is total economic collapse because there is no more expansion, and the economy is based on growth.
Economic collapse is the inevitable outcome of an expansion-based economy.
The U.S. is still in debt for WWII, and our ongoing wars have ballooned our national debt, if that helps put things into perspective a little. Here's a fun site: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Funding wars for corporate profit, and how that ties into our economy, is a great deal more complicated than "putting a gun to someone's head and taking $100".
Quote from: Nigel on January 27, 2012, 04:13:51 PM
Economic collapse is the inevitable outcome of an expansion-based economy.
Totally. History proves this but what you're failing to consider is the big picture. You draw a distinction between corporations and government. While this may still be the case (but only just) it's not part of the larger corporate agenda. The government should be nothing more than one arm of their PR department. As you correctly noted - the corporations are making a fucking packet from sales of equipment which merely serves to increase the profitablity of the venture. It's the consumer that pays for the purchase of said equipment, via taxation. In other words we're forced to purchase the shiny new splodey toys that we don't even get to play with but, much like car insurance, it's still just a sale of goods and services.
There are two types of military action - offense and defence. Offence is where the profit lies and defence is a cost, no different on the spreadsheet from any other overhead or depreciation. Of course you can't expand forever, you can only hold all the territory and resources but, once you have this, you need to hold it. You'll still be fighting uprisings and hostile takeovers and keeping the whole thing secure but where are you going to invade when it's all yours?
Quote from: Queen_Gogira on January 27, 2012, 03:11:28 PM
I didn't see clearchannel in that list, they own a ridiculous percentage of radio stations and billboard advertising.
I was looking at TV broadcasters, particularly news outlets. I can do something with Clearchannel. Oh, my, yes.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 27, 2012, 04:13:51 PM
Economic collapse is the inevitable outcome of an expansion-based economy.
Totally. History proves this but what you're failing to consider is the big picture. You draw a distinction between corporations and government. While this may still be the case (but only just) it's not part of the larger corporate agenda. The government should be nothing more than one arm of their PR department. As you correctly noted - the corporations are making a fucking packet from sales of equipment which merely serves to increase the profitablity of the venture. It's the consumer that pays for the purchase of said equipment, via taxation. In other words we're forced to purchase the shiny new splodey toys that we don't even get to play with but, much like car insurance, it's still just a sale of goods and services.
There are two types of military action - offense and defence. Offence is where the profit lies and defence is a cost, no different on the spreadsheet from any other overhead or depreciation. Of course you can't expand forever, you can only hold all the territory and resources but, once you have this, you need to hold it. You'll still be fighting uprisings and hostile takeovers and keeping the whole thing secure but where are you going to invade when it's all yours?
That's pretty much exactly what I already said, only simplified, rephrased, and omitting the part about eroding their own consumer base by concentrating wealth, so please explain to me where I'm missing the big picture?
Dunno. You seemed to be arguing with me about something. Maybe it'd help if I pointed out that, IMO (as in yours I think), it's completely unworkable. Every empire in history has overextended their borders, way short of taking the big prize and there's always a bunch of hungry, pissed off, hard as nails opportunists ready to step in and feed on the bloated corpse. I never said I thought it was a good idea but where you and me seem to differ is you actually seem to be surprised or incredulous about the stupidity of it all, whereas I expect it - it's what monkeys do. They can't seem to help themselves.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 08:50:25 PM
Dunno. You seemed to be arguing with me about something. Maybe it'd help if I pointed out that, IMO (as in yours I think), it's completely unworkable. Every empire in history has overextended their borders, way short of taking the big prize and there's always a bunch of hungry, pissed off, hard as nails opportunists ready to step in and feed on the bloated corpse. I never said I thought it was a good idea but where you and me seem to differ is you actually seem to be surprised or incredulous about the stupidity of it all, whereas I expect it - it's what monkeys do. They can't seem to help themselves.
You appeared to be arguing with me, actually, via the condescending tone of "don't kid yourself" and "you're failing to consider the big picture". Now with the "you actually seem to be surprised".
Not sure where you got that idea, I was just pointing some things out the same way Roger was pointing out the concentration of media control in the OP. Once again, I will ask you not to condescend to me.
What the fuck is this condescending stuff all about? Either you know me better than that after all these years or maybe it's about time I did?
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Here's the thing.
Our economy is based on growth; not just profit, but continually larger profits. The stock market absolutely requires growth. After a certain point, the only way for a company to grow is to absorb its competitors. The inevitable result of that is acquisitions and mergers. Acquisitions and mergers lead to several large companies holding functional monopolies over the market. Furthermore, interlocking directorates mean that in many cases these corporate giants are collaborating with each other, not competing. Anti-trust laws used to limit how much control any one company had over the media... not anymore; thanks Telecommunications Act!
And they're not done merging, yet. No matter how big they get, they still have to keep growing, which explains a lot about our intensely militarized society and the reasons we have to keep going into other countries to "fight for democracy". At present, over 51% of the entire U.S. budget goes toward our military. And that military is fighting to "protect our interests", which really means to "gain access to resources and markets" for Big Corp. The U.S. government works for U.S. assets, not U.S. citizens.
Rah rah, go USA!
Precisely. I used to raaaaaage about this fact and I've been accused of everything from communism to tinfoil habberdashery so I just stopped, put on a pair of cat ears and started giggling uncontrolably at the futility of the thing. Between you and Roger, I'm starting to get angry again.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 04:32:38 PMYou draw a distinction between corporations and government. While this may still be the case (but only just) it's not part of the larger corporate agenda. The government should be nothing more than one arm of their PR department.
Problem with that is, while being a PR dept for big corporations is of course a major purpose of the government, it is not its
singular purpose. Government also deals with all these finicky details such as managing the nation and such. A shit job, but someone's gotta do it, not for the People cause corporations don't function properly without it either. Still, corporations are all too happy to defer that responsibility to Them Govt.
Maybe some corps are too stupid to realize they really don't want to have to deal with keeping the nation afloat if they were planning on eating the Government, but those aren't the ones that will last because at some point some cleverer corporations will stomp on them.
Of course, such an event would be like Cthulhu stomping on Nyarlathotep: Uncaring Gods battling it out for their own unknowable purposes, completely cold towards the fate of the microscopic individual.
Quote from: Nigel on January 27, 2012, 02:51:18 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 27, 2012, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: Nigel on January 26, 2012, 10:11:44 PM
GE owns Universal now. Which merged with Comcast/NBC.
Here's the thing.
Our economy is based on growth; not just profit, but continually larger profits. The stock market absolutely requires growth. After a certain point, the only way for a company to grow is to absorb its competitors. The inevitable result of that is acquisitions and mergers. Acquisitions and mergers lead to several large companies holding functional monopolies over the market. Furthermore, interlocking directorates mean that in many cases these corporate giants are collaborating with each other, not competing. Anti-trust laws used to limit how much control any one company had over the media... not anymore; thanks Telecommunications Act!
And they're not done merging, yet. No matter how big they get, they still have to keep growing, which explains a lot about our intensely militarized society and the reasons we have to keep going into other countries to "fight for democracy". At present, over 51% of the entire U.S. budget goes toward our military. And that military is fighting to "protect our interests", which really means to "gain access to resources and markets" for Big Corp. The U.S. government works for U.S. assets, not U.S. citizens.
Rah rah, go USA!
In a nutshell, perfectly fucking illustrated, why capitalism is a fucking bombscare of a system and why it continues to get worse and only ever will, until the inevitable endgame conditions are met - one single human being, controlling all the resources on the planet. It might be the best we can come up with but that's it's one single plus point.
Legislative shit like monopolies and antitrust only work until the point where supercorporations become powerful enough to buy the legislature and the government (a necessary step in the growth of any organisation) It's a milestone in corporate growth - either they control the law or they cease to grow, thereby ducking out of the race and leaving their assets to a competitor, thus giving said competitor a leg up in their own assault.
Sooner or later military control becomes necessary, usually via the same control of government. We're seeing this already with a conspicuous percentage of global military action carried out in accordance with corporate interests in securing territories and resources required for continued expansion. I'm pretty sure this will continue to escalate until eventually we'll all be under a state of martial law. subject to execution for buying the wrong sneakers.
One interesting side of this would be a corporate world war which would be the result of a stalemate between two or three of the "last men standing" Imagine being conscripted to fight for the Macdonalds army, against the evil Burger King Empire - the uniforms alone would make this global carnage potentially hilarious :evil:
You should read Jennifer Government; that's basically what it's about.
Or Rash by Pete Hautman (http://www.amazon.com/Rash-Pete-Hautman/dp/0689869045). It's not quite "Burger King versus MacDonalds", it's a little more realistic and prophetic than that. Reminds me of MT Anderson's Feed. Damn, all the best dystopic fiction is being written for teenagers these days.
With so many gullible people, monopolies really do suck, especially when their business is information. Good thing the internet is still sort of free.
Quote from: Wolfgang Absolutus on February 07, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
With so many gullible people, monopolies really do suck, especially when their business is information. Good thing the internet is still sort of free.
You're adorable.
Quote from: Queen_Gogira on February 08, 2012, 02:58:16 AM
Quote from: Wolfgang Absolutus on February 07, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
With so many gullible people, monopolies really do suck, especially when their business is information. Good thing the internet is still sort of free.
You're adorable.
:lulz:
You're my favorite noob since Pixie, QG.
Quote from: Queen_Gogira on February 08, 2012, 02:58:16 AM
Quote from: Wolfgang Absolutus on February 07, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
With so many gullible people, monopolies really do suck, especially when their business is information. Good thing the internet is still sort of free.
You're adorable.
Which part am I mistaken about?