http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NA31Dj01.html
QuoteIn the January 29 New York Times, [1] a prominent professor of child development shows that attention-deficit-disorder drugs only harm the three million children who take them. One out of 10 American children have been diagnosed with so-called Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and most of them have been medicated. [2]
Quote''Back in the 1960s I, like most psychologists, believed that children with difficulty concentrating were suffering from a brain problem of genetic or otherwise inborn origin. Just as Type I diabetics need insulin to correct problems with their inborn biochemistry, these children were believed to require attention-deficit drugs to correct theirs. It turns out, however, that there is little to no evidence to support this theory.''
Of particular note.
QuoteSome months ago, the Times reported that test scores lagged in school districts that invested massively in digital education. [3] It does not seem to have occurred to the mandarins that computers cause attention deficit disorder. The brain is a machine, in the enlightened secular model, and so-called brain science teaches us to tweak its functioning with pharmaceuticals, or stimulate its development through digital approximations of intelligence. The grand result of a generation's worth of brain-science application is a generation of schoolchildren who are disproportionately illiterate, innumerate, anxious, angry, and unhappy.
Which reminds me of: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/technology/21brain.html?ref=yourbrainoncomputers
ADD is - in my humble, non-medically trained opinion - just another way of saying "future shock", we just use different brain-smashing drugs on it than we do on older people, who have to rely on Prosac.
While I strongly agree that ADD is overdiagnosed and that America's kids are badly overmedicated, I don't want to brush off the whole disease. It IS a real thing, many kids benefit enormously from that type of medication. Do 1 out of 10 kids need it? Definitely fucking not. But let's be careful before saying that NONE of those kids are being helped by their medication.
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
While I strongly agree that ADD is overdiagnosed and that America's kids are badly overmedicated, I don't want to brush off the whole disease. It IS a real thing, many kids benefit enormously from that type of medication. Do 1 out of 10 kids need it? Definitely fucking not. But let's be careful before saying that NONE of those kids are being helped by their medication.
I don't agree that they're over-medicated. I think they're screwed up for the same reason adults are. Too much input, too much information, smacking into a monkey brain that is programmed to deal with only 5 stressors.
you don't think kids are overmedicated? Something seems really weird to me about a 9 year old taking a fist full of pills. Personally, I think we should let kids brains develop before we medicate them. It's the same with pot and booze - wait till your brain is fully baked before you start experimenting with its chemistry.
I didn't believe ADD or ADHD was a "real" disease until I went to a really good lecture by an MD named Jeffery Halperin. While I cannot recall the details of the lecture anymore, I remember walking out of there pretty confident that there is a real brain chemistry difference between ADD kids and "normals". Halperin points out that lots of ADD cases go away by puberty. And to treat ADD and ADHD, he recommends "regular outdoor exercise" before you cram your kid full of pills. Good advice, IMO, because a number of these ADD cases are just bad parenting.
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 06:48:50 PM
... I remember walking out of there pretty confident that there is a real brain chemistry difference between ADD kids and "normals"....
does a brain chemistry difference necessarily indicate disease?
doesn't an entirely 'normal' brain develop chemistry differences when given a different set of stimuli?
and isn't there chemistry difference between brains that would both be considered 'normal', and wouldn't prompt medication?
at what point does personality become pathology?
those are great questions
Quotedoes a brain chemistry difference necessarily indicate disease?
Psychological pathology gets really weird at the borders, especially when you're talking about behavioral things. What IS the difference between a "psychological disease" and, say, having a weird opinion, attitude, lifestyle, et cetera?
The evidence that people with ADDs brains are physically different is part of the ongoing "Is this a real disease?" dialog. The observable physical traits of ADD are evidence that ADD isn't just "kids who consume too much sugar and television".
---and that did need to be said. There's still a vibe out there that all kids with ADD really just need
discipline. And I think this is missing the point just as much as medicating all kids who don't want to do their homework.
Do physical abnormalities imply you should try to "normalize" those brains? That's another kettle of fish. Ultimately, it's subjective - doctors don't
really decide that your kid should be medicated, parents do. There's no medical requirement for people with depression (for example) to go on meds, it's something that the patient should decide for him/herself.
I take the stance that everything we are, and ever will naturally evolve into, are mutations. Whether they are called diseases or not are a matter of success. Can people with ADD live functional, happy, productive lives? Sometimes yes, sometimes less so. It's hard to call it a disease based on that.
This is just my opinion. All biology I know is self-taught.
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 06:48:50 PM
you don't think kids are overmedicated? Something seems really weird to me about a 9 year old taking a fist full of pills. Personally, I think we should let kids brains develop before we medicate them.
Here's the problem: People now exist in an environment where it is damn near impossible to develop a young primate properly. There are too many stressors in the environment. If you took an adult from 1700 and brought them to modern America, they'd go bonkers, and not because of superstition, etc, but rather the fact that they'd have no filters for dealing with the insane flood of information and demands put upon people by modern life. Most people can sort of adapt to this if raised in it, but many cannot.
Spenger's article is full of silly ideological bullshit, as it always is.
The NYT article is somewhat better, though I'm going to do more research and think about what it says.
I do think that ADD is a very real biological condition, if an over diagnosed one. There are all sorts of weird little things like correlation with dysgraphia (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17710822) and inner ear problems (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/740464) that suggest that its biological.
But one thing I have noticed is as a whole peoples attention spans have gone down, especially young people. I was watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre the other day and it occurred to me if it was made today the Van Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbByNfIvEt4) would be half the length.
Sure enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChexglKUhaE
Keep in mind this wasn't high art, it was a fucking slasher movie made for stupid teenagers. Yet I cant show my friend Reservoir Dogs without him complaining about all the "long boring talking parts". Something is very fucking wrong.
In some alternate timeline, people are talking about how kids these days can't sit through a silent film without complain about the "long boring non-talking parts". :lol:
(http://e-blogs.wikio.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/star-wars-film-muet-2-550x378.png)
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 08:16:50 PM
In some alternate timeline, people are talking about how kids these days can't sit through a silent film without complain about the "long boring non-talking parts". :lol:
(http://e-blogs.wikio.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/star-wars-film-muet-2-550x378.png)
:lulz:
Quote from: Prince Glittersnatch III on February 02, 2012, 08:08:33 PM
But one thing I have noticed is as a whole peoples attention spans have gone down, especially young people. I was watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre the other day and it occurred to me if it was made today the Van Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbByNfIvEt4) would be half the length.
Sure enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChexglKUhaE
Keep in mind this wasn't high art, it was a fucking slasher movie made for stupid teenagers. Yet I cant show my friend Reservoir Dogs without him complaining about all the "long boring talking parts". Something is very fucking wrong.
Related:
I was watching a Half in the Bag review (http://www.redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/cowboys-and-aliens) of Cowboys and Aliens, and they said something along the lines of a lot of people might not like it because it's slow to get moving what with all the character development and all.
I watched it quite soon after that, and I was like "People would have issues with this moving too slowly? :? " I agree, I think people who can focus on stuff that are deeper than "BOOM! ACTION! SHINY!" are a dying breed.
I just think there are a lot of people who aren't very good at doing risk/benefit analysis for medications in general, and doctors are either unwilling or unable to give them any help in that regard. Sure, there are people who have legitimate attention problems, but the improved classroom/work performance has to be balanced against (among other things) the risk of life-long chemical dependency. If you aren't gonna graduate high school without it, then sure, that's totally reasonable.
The article in question (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opinion/sunday/childrens-add-drugs-dont-work-long-term.html) didn't link to any publications or anything, btw. It's chock-full of links, but they're all auto-generated keyword links to other pages on NYTimes.com.
BTW, there's also plenty of adults with AD(H)D. I dunno about cases that go away after puberty, I was always told [by a psychiatrist] you either got it or you don't, it's for life because dopamine receptors in the "filtering useless info" part of the brain don't work at full power. Then, lots of brain changing during puberty, so I could see it happen.
That said, I also (personally) agree with Roger that information overload in modern times is definitely part of the problem. I come across articles about how consuming all that info via the Internet can actually be harmful to the brain. However, that doesnt mean AD(H)D isn't a real thing. Apparently some people deal better with the info overload than others. So in that way it makes perfect sense, if people with AD(H)D have been around always during history, it's just that only in the recent decennia it's become much harder for them to deal with all the information constantly blasting everybody's brain, which causes some people to malfunction sooner than others.
Oh and I read somewhere that the thing about kids getting hyperactive because of consuming sugar doesn't actually have a physiological basis, it does happen, but it's caused partly by placebo effect and partly by kids acting on parents expectations of becoming hyperactive due to sugar.
Monkeys are designed to deal with 5 stressors:
1. Is there any food?
2. Is that a leopard coming through the tall grass, or is it just the wind?
3. Is this a safe place to go to sleep?
4. What are my chances of getting laid today?
5. Where do I stand in the tribe? Am I the alpha, watching out for young bucks, or am I a beta, trying not to piss off the alpha?
That's about it. Now look at the stresses we face every day, without even necessarily consciously noticing them.
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 08:16:50 PM
In some alternate timeline, people are talking about how kids these days can't sit through a silent film without complain about the "long boring non-talking parts". :lol:
(http://e-blogs.wikio.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/star-wars-film-muet-2-550x378.png)
Not an alternate timeline at all. I'm taking a film class that's full of 18-20-somethings that can't sit through Lang's
Metropolis because they get bored based on the fact that there's no audible dialogue. Granted, the restored version of the film is like 4 hours long, but they said the same more or less of
The Great Train Robbery.
An ex of mine once made a study of that movie, she told me that if you took all the cuts and deleted scenes there was even 7 hours of material :)
I have ADHD. So does my oldest daughter. I've read quite a few books on it, as well. My daughter and I were diagnosed by proper neuropsychologists with extensive tests, not some school nurse or random GP.
I try to keep up on current developments but I don't really have time.
The main gist of ADHD is that a part of our brains are always on the verge of falling asleep, which is why we are distractible, hyper (STIMULUS TO STAY AWAKE! MORE STIMULUS!) and often fail to pay adequate attention to things that could kill us. That's why stimulant medications work.
I think that a lot of people have very uninformed opinions on ADHD, which to me is similar to all those yahoos proposing cockamamie "why don't they just" cleanup ideas for the Gulf oil spill. IMO, if you haven't actually researched it enough to KNOW what you're talking about rather than just guessing, you should stuff your opinion up your butt.
Quote from: Nigel on February 03, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
I have ADHD. So does my oldest daughter. I've read quite a few books on it, as well. My daughter and I were diagnosed by proper neuropsychologists with extensive tests, not some school nurse or random GP.
I try to keep up on current developments but I don't really have time.
The main gist of ADHD is that a part of our brains are always on the verge of falling asleep, which is why we are distractible, hyper (STIMULUS TO STAY AWAKE! MORE STIMULUS!) and often fail to pay adequate attention to things that could kill us. That's why stimulant medications work.
I think that a lot of people have very uninformed opinions on ADHD, which to me is similar to all those yahoos proposing cockamamie "why don't they just" cleanup ideas for the Gulf oil spill. IMO, if you haven't actually researched it enough to KNOW what you're talking about rather than just guessing, you should stuff your opinion up your butt.
I was misdiagnosed as ADHD, and was put on the Feingold diet for 3 years, because I refused to swallow Ritalin.
It turns out that I was just a rotten kid. :lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on February 03, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
I have ADHD. So does my oldest daughter. I've read quite a few books on it, as well. My daughter and I were diagnosed by proper neuropsychologists with extensive tests, not some school nurse or random GP.
I try to keep up on current developments but I don't really have time.
The main gist of ADHD is that a part of our brains are always on the verge of falling asleep, which is why we are distractible, hyper (STIMULUS TO STAY AWAKE! MORE STIMULUS!) and often fail to pay adequate attention to things that could kill us. That's why stimulant medications work.
I think that a lot of people have very uninformed opinions on ADHD, which to me is similar to all those yahoos proposing cockamamie "why don't they just" cleanup ideas for the Gulf oil spill. IMO, if you haven't actually researched it enough to KNOW what you're talking about rather than just guessing, you should stuff your opinion up your butt.
That's useful for you to share Nigel. In schools around where I've worked there isn't a phenomenally deep understanding of things like ADHD. It's good to hear a clear explanation from someone who understands properly.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a
lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she
is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
FTR, there is no such thing as ADD. It's just ADHD.
Anyone who carries a ADD diagnosis was either diagnosed before the psychologists worked out what their terminology meant, or was diagnosed by a guidance counselor or something.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 04, 2012, 12:18:51 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 03, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
I have ADHD. So does my oldest daughter. I've read quite a few books on it, as well. My daughter and I were diagnosed by proper neuropsychologists with extensive tests, not some school nurse or random GP.
I try to keep up on current developments but I don't really have time.
The main gist of ADHD is that a part of our brains are always on the verge of falling asleep, which is why we are distractible, hyper (STIMULUS TO STAY AWAKE! MORE STIMULUS!) and often fail to pay adequate attention to things that could kill us. That's why stimulant medications work.
I think that a lot of people have very uninformed opinions on ADHD, which to me is similar to all those yahoos proposing cockamamie "why don't they just" cleanup ideas for the Gulf oil spill. IMO, if you haven't actually researched it enough to KNOW what you're talking about rather than just guessing, you should stuff your opinion up your butt.
I was misdiagnosed as ADHD, and was put on the Feingold diet for 3 years, because I refused to swallow Ritalin.
It turns out that I was just a rotten kid. :lulz:
OMG, the Feingold diet! I'd forgotten about that idiocy.
People often mistake "rotten kid" for "ADHD". EFO is the best kid around; smart as hell, sweet, affectionate, and the very opposite of a "problem child". The only reason I took her in for screening last year was because of her own frustration with her inability to focus.
LO, on the other hand, is evil, but not ADHD.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
Yep. TOTALLY. When I was reading the ADHD newsgroup a few years ago I was kind of horrified and embarrassed by the whole "It's not a disorder, we're just
speshul mahadgickal hunter warrior crystal genius children!"
If anything it was school that failed to perform. Distraction and diversion were the only way out. Creative, sure. Smart, not very.
Quote from: Nigel on February 04, 2012, 02:08:26 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
Yep. TOTALLY. When I was reading the ADHD newsgroup a few years ago I was kind of horrified and embarrassed by the whole "It's not a disorder, we're just speshul mahadgickal hunter warrior crystal genius children!"
:lulz: My aunt has changed her tune about it all now, but a few years ago she was saying that about her oldest. It was very hard not to laugh at her.
My youngest sister has ADHD and would be pretty fucked without the meds for it.
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 04, 2012, 04:25:15 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 04, 2012, 02:08:26 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
Yep. TOTALLY. When I was reading the ADHD newsgroup a few years ago I was kind of horrified and embarrassed by the whole "It's not a disorder, we're just speshul mahadgickal hunter warrior crystal genius children!"
:lulz: My aunt has changed her tune about it all now, but a few years ago she was saying that about her oldest. It was very hard not to laugh at her.
My youngest sister has ADHD and would be pretty fucked without the meds for it.
I refused to take meds for years, until the second time I almost got killed because I walked out into traffic. :lol: Me and crossing streets; not such a good combination.
For that matter, I have almost had my car hit by trains a couple of times because I just didn't notice them.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 02, 2012, 09:12:30 PM
Monkeys are designed to deal with 5 stressors:
1. Is there any food?
2. Is that a leopard coming through the tall grass, or is it just the wind?
3. Is this a safe place to go to sleep?
4. What are my chances of getting laid today?
5. Where do I stand in the tribe? Am I the alpha, watching out for young bucks, or am I a beta, trying not to piss off the alpha?
That's about it. Now look at the stresses we face every day, without even necessarily consciously noticing them.
These actually translate pretty well to modern day.
1. Is there any food resources? (Food money, if there is not much food in the house, counts).
2. Is this individual who is a part of a demographic I am intrinsically afraid of actually going to harm me, or am I just responding to cultural warnings based on fear/the fear of having to review my world views and find them wanting/a drug fuelled hallucination?
3. Is this home/park/bridge safe to sleep in/under?
4. What are my chances of getting laid today? (I don't think this one will ever change, lol)
5. Where do I stand in my household (seems to me that would be the closest thing to an everyday tribe)? Am I a renter/owner, keeping shit under control, or am I the couch surfer/spare bedroom mooch trying not to piss off or inconvenience the owner/renter?
Alternatively,
5. Where is my tribe, and what did I do wrong to get the boot?
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:02:23 AMAnyone who carries a ADD diagnosis was either diagnosed before the psychologists worked out what their terminology meant, or was diagnosed by a guidance counselor or something.
False.
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 04, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:02:23 AMAnyone who carries a ADD diagnosis was either diagnosed before the psychologists worked out what their terminology meant, or was diagnosed by a guidance counselor or something.
False.
What do you mean, "false"? Maybe things are completely different in Belgium, but in the U.S. ADD was formally reclassified as ADHD/inattentive type in the DSM-IV. There has been no such formal diagnosis as "ADD" according to the APA since 1994. What he said was completely accurate; anyone in the States who has a formal diagnosis of "ADD" either received diagnosis prior to 1994, or received a diagnosis from someone unqualified to make it.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
Well that hunter/farmer theory does seem a bit haughty but I wasn't really going into the whole, "it's NOT a mental illness" angle but more along the lines of looking for a positive tradeoff
For instance, one part of the diagnosis for me way back in the day was that I had Hyperfocus. With some every day tasks i was (and still am to a small degree) tend to completely miss out. But with other tasks I can stay on it for hours without distractions. This has been both a blessing and a curse.
or is all that just Lo5 bullshit too?
Quote from: Nigel on February 04, 2012, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 04, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:02:23 AMAnyone who carries a ADD diagnosis was either diagnosed before the psychologists worked out what their terminology meant, or was diagnosed by a guidance counselor or something.
False.
What do you mean, "false"? Maybe things are completely different in Belgium, but in the U.S. ADD was formally reclassified as ADHD/inattentive type in the DSM-IV. There has been no such formal diagnosis as "ADD" according to the APA since 1994. What he said was completely accurate; anyone in the States who has a formal diagnosis of "ADD" either received diagnosis prior to 1994, or received a diagnosis from someone unqualified to make it.
Thanks for clarifying, I stand corrected. The phrase "ADHD/inattentive type" (or the Dutch translation thereof) indeed appears on formal paperwork I have on the matter. My psychiatrist apparently just tends to informally call it ADD when there's no (physical) hyperactivity involved. My point was that he's neither a guidance counselor nor did I get the diagnosis before 1994.
(whether that particular part of my diagnosis is entirely accurate is a separate question, as I'm not really like most people with ADHD I know personally, my case is just kind of unusual I suppose--but that's another story)
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 04, 2012, 08:07:48 PM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 03, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
I read a book a loooooong time ago (so i'm probably messing up my facts a little but...) that the person with AD(H)D had, now what was it...something more like a 'hunter mind' describing characteristics like, being able to scan and process information quickly for predators and having a hyper-focus in certain activities (and obviously not others, as is common in add or adhd iirc?).
The main thing being that while it does have some behavioral disadvantages, does ADD and ADHD have any behavioral advantages ?
The whole hunter vs. agriculturist is 100% pure Lo5 bullshit. Take the sentence "Kids with ADHD aren't mentally ill, they're just natural born hunters born into a world designed around sheep people" and count how many semantic leaps you have to make to get to "Kids with autism aren't mentally ill, they're just vibrating at the frequency of the New Age while their teachers are stuck in the green-blue spectrum."
e.g., people with ADHD are a lot more likely to get into auto accidents. They have hard time keeping track of all of the things around them that could kill them dead. I have a very hard time buying the idea that that quality predisposes them to the patience and alertness required to bring home a deer.
My younger sister was one of the people who fell into "would not have graduated highschool without ADHD meds" camp. Nothing about her is remotely hunterlike. Now, she is a genius, but so are all the non-ADHD people in my extended family.
Well that hunter/farmer theory does seem a bit haughty but I wasn't really going into the whole, "it's NOT a mental illness" angle but more along the lines of looking for a positive tradeoff
For instance, one part of the diagnosis for me way back in the day was that I had Hyperfocus. With some every day tasks i was (and still am to a small degree) tend to completely miss out. But with other tasks I can stay on it for hours without distractions. This has been both a blessing and a curse.
or is all that just Lo5 bullshit too?
Hyperfocus is real, and can be useful, and can also cause problems. But that's another topic.
Whether ADHD is a mental illness, per se, is pretty much a matter of how you define "mental illness".
Strictly speaking it's a neurological disorder that affects mental function and behavior. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/adhd/adhd.htm
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 04, 2012, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 04, 2012, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 04, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 04, 2012, 01:02:23 AMAnyone who carries a ADD diagnosis was either diagnosed before the psychologists worked out what their terminology meant, or was diagnosed by a guidance counselor or something.
False.
What do you mean, "false"? Maybe things are completely different in Belgium, but in the U.S. ADD was formally reclassified as ADHD/inattentive type in the DSM-IV. There has been no such formal diagnosis as "ADD" according to the APA since 1994. What he said was completely accurate; anyone in the States who has a formal diagnosis of "ADD" either received diagnosis prior to 1994, or received a diagnosis from someone unqualified to make it.
Thanks for clarifying, I stand corrected. The phrase "ADHD/inattentive type" (or the Dutch translation thereof) indeed appears on formal paperwork I have on the matter. My psychiatrist apparently just tends to informally call it ADD when there's no (physical) hyperactivity involved. My point was that he's neither a guidance counselor nor did I get the diagnosis before 1994.
(whether that particular part of my diagnosis is entirely accurate is a separate question, as I'm not really like most people with ADHD I know personally, my case is just kind of unusual I suppose--but that's another story)
But you also don't have a diagnosis of ADD, so your point is moot.