Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 04:46:40 AM

Title: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 04:46:40 AM
I thought y'all would find this interesting. Not many people know this little fact and even my NOLA peeps give me puzzled expressions when I explain that "Yes, I am going to Mardi Gras parades this weekend" and "No, I won't be at Endymion or Bacchus because I'm staying in Mobile until I'm ready to move." A lot of them *still* don't know that Mobile was the first capital of LA (Louisiana Purchase included much of Alabama) and I remember being fascinated with this stuff when I first moved to 'Bama.

Mardi Gras was actually started by a bunch of rich, white young southern boys who didn't want to stop drinking and go the fuck to bed one night so they picked up rakes and cowbells and pots and pans and ran around town, hootin' and hollerin like a bunch of nuts, waking up the entire city. They were the original Discordians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardi_Gras_in_Mobile

QuoteMardi Gras in Mobile, Alabama[pronounce] is the oldest annual Carnival celebration in America, having begun in 1703,[1][2][3] over 15 years before New Orleans was founded (1718).[3] From Mobile being the first capital of French Louisiana (1702), the festival began as a French Catholic tradition, celebrating until the start of Lent on Ash Wednesday, until midnight on Mardi Gras day (French for "Fat Tuesday" or Shrove Tuesday). However, Mardi Gras in Mobile now has evolved into a mainstream multi-week celebration across the spectrum of cultures in Mobile, becoming school holidays[

One of my favourite historical stories about Mobile Mardi Gras is the Joe Cain "Legend."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cain

QuoteJoseph Stillwell Cain, Jr. (Joe Cain) (October 10, 1832 – April 17, 1904)[1] [2] is largely credited with the rebirth of Mardi Gras celebrations in Mobile, Alabama, stopped due to the Civil War.[1] [3] In 1867, following the American Civil War and while Mobile was still under Union occupation, Joe Cain paraded through the streets of Mobile, dressed in improvised costume depicting a fictional Chickasaw chief named Slacabamorinico.[1][3] The choice was a backhanded insult to the Union forces in that the Chickasaw tribe had never been defeated in war. Joe was joined by six other Confederate veterans, parading in a decorated coal wagon, playing drums and horns, and the group became the "L. C. Minstrel Band", now commonly referred to as the "Lost Cause Minstrels" of Mobile.

In order to understand that part, you also kinda have to get into the history of how--despite racism, slavery, ignorance and all the other shit that the American South has a mixed-truth notoriety for--much of Gulf Coastal cities really just were nice, oblivious, working and middle class people who genuinely didn't want to be forced into the Union...much the same way the settlers no longer wanted to be forced to remain part of England. There actually are really good people in this city...even some of the older families. While there were some definite dirty dealings (Foster and Meaher families (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clotilde_%28slave_ship%29), I'm looking at you) that people try to (*ahem*) whitewash, A lot of the "rebellion" aspect genuinely was born of a desire to not have a tyrannical and hypocritical northern aristocrats force the South to pay for a government that didn't represent them. There are still families here today who insist that slavery is evil and was right to be abolished...even punished and are still adamant about the right of secession.

However, there is a dark side to Mardi Gras. I highly, highly recommend the documentary movie "Order Of Myths." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Order_of_Myths) It was done by a member of one of the oldest families in Mobile and while it's definitely slanted through the eyes of a well-heeled, rebellious "Old Springhill" rich girl, anxious to toss off her birthright and advantages in the name of trying to be just like "one of the little people" (when we damned well know, she's going to hit about 25, marry well, choose her ball theme, colors and train design and that will be the end of THAT), it does a fair job of exposing both the ugly side as well as the "Rome wasn't built in a day but at least they're trying" aspect of progress down here. It's streaming on Netflix right now but if you don't have a Netflix, I'm sure you can snag it somewhere.

I want to say this: there are a lot of fine, goodhearted, charitable people in these societies today. Many of them just plain old, upper-middle class people who spend a lot of the year holding fundraisers for their floats and events and for charity. I know these people. They're good folks who insist on doing good works in the community as a requisite to membership much the same way the Masons do. There are also a lot of exclusive, well-off puritans who would never, ever let a nouveaux riche or a Yankee in their little clubs. Either way, these parades are something everyone looks forward to (from the profoundly poor to the very well-heeled), all year long. It is a part of their heritage now--white and black.

Regardless of how you feel about these people, it's interesting and since people still seem to be enjoying Nigel's "race" thread, I thought this would be enjoyed and add some wonderful substance to the conversation here.

Enjoy.

Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 04:27:02 PM
Its funny- i feel that the government doesnt represent me because of the south.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: LMNO on February 13, 2012, 04:41:25 PM
That's a pretty all-encompassing statement you've got there, Twid.  you might want to consider dressing it up with a little nuance, though.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Elder Iptuous on February 13, 2012, 04:43:07 PM
Interesting stuff, navkat.
i'll have to check out the netflix recommendation.

Twid. i submit you try secession!   
maybe it would be an amicable split that way. :lol:
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
Nah. I wouldnt think that a seceded northeast would represent me either because if all those new yorker fucks.

I do find north and south perspectives to be rather interesting though. Some southerners will refer to it as the war of northern aggression. A northerner will say that the south attacked us first. A southerner will say it wasnt about slavery but states rights. A northerner will quip yes- whether a state has the right to legalize slavery. Its just funny how the civil war still divides us to a degree.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2012, 05:01:48 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
Nah. I wouldnt think that a seceded northeast would represent me either because if all those new yorker fucks.

I do find north and south perspectives to be rather interesting though. Some southerners will refer to it as the war of northern aggression. A northerner will say that the south attacked us first. A southerner will say it wasnt about slavery but states rights. A northerner will quip yes- whether a state has the right to legalize slavery. Its just funny how the civil war still divides us to a degree.

I feel like I'm not being represented, because of stupid people who still bitch over things that happened 147 years ago.

:lulz:
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 05:17:12 PM
 :lulz:
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 05:21:39 PM
Well sure. Its much easier to look at everything thats going wrong with the country, whatever the definition of wrong happens to be for the individual, and to blame it on "yankee aristocrats" or "southern yahoos" than to accept that the guy you backed in the last election is just as much to blame. Its all part of the game. And the culture. Its almost like americans are programmed to look down on the people outside their own region.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2012, 05:26:19 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 05:21:39 PM
Well sure. Its much easier to look at everything thats going wrong with the country, whatever the definition of wrong happens to be for the individual, and to blame it on "yankee aristocrats" or "southern yahoos" than to accept that the guy you backed in the last election is just as much to blame. Its all part of the game. And the culture. Its almost like americans are programmed to look down on the people outside their own region.

The British do that, too.  It's hardly an American thing.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Don Coyote on February 13, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2012, 05:26:19 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 05:21:39 PM
Well sure. Its much easier to look at everything thats going wrong with the country, whatever the definition of wrong happens to be for the individual, and to blame it on "yankee aristocrats" or "southern yahoos" than to accept that the guy you backed in the last election is just as much to blame. Its all part of the game. And the culture. Its almost like americans are programmed to look down on the people outside their own region.

The British do that, too.  It's hardly an American thing.
It's a monkey thing.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 05:46:32 PM
At any rate its coming close to my annual month of vegetarianism with the exception of st. Patricks day. So i'll be celebrating a sort of meaty gras myself. Maybe this year i'll slice up a hot dog and put it on a bacon cheeseburger wedged in between two chicken patties.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Triple Zero on February 13, 2012, 06:10:45 PM
TIL there's a place called "Mobile", and they have a Mobile Bay and a Mobile River. I bet you get a lot of earthquakes?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2012, 05:01:48 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 05:00:14 PMSome southerners will refer to it as the war of northern aggression. A northerner will say that Han shot first. A southerner will say it wasnt about slavery but the Empire's rights.

I feel like I'm not being represented, because of stupid people who still bitch over things that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

So, Star Wars is a parable for real life :eek: That's why it's such a big deal!

Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 06:12:30 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:08:43 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 05:21:39 PM
Well sure. Its much easier to look at everything thats going wrong with the country, whatever the definition of wrong happens to be for the individual, and to blame it on "yankee aristocrats" or "southern yahoos" than to accept that the guy you backed in the last election is just as much to blame. Its all part of the game. And the culture. Its almost like americans are programmed to look down on the people outside their own region.

You are ignoring the entire bulk of word-of-mouth, "grassroots" History and tradition in my country from 1770 until radio became popular in the 1920s (I'll even give you that), television in the late 40s and internet (ignoring Arpanet, Prodigy and AOL which don't really count) in the late 90s.

This is about attitudes and ignorance (I don't mean the common connotation of "ignorance" which is a polite way of saying "racist," but rather, the fact that there really are some nice, decent, working-class people of both white and less "advantaged" races in this country who just don't know what they don't know).

In much the same way that I, who tries to be an open-hearted, open-minded human being that pushes an attitude of love and community and acceptance couldn't understand how my passive role as someone who is "colorblind" could be a form of stubbornness until it was drilled into my head a few times by Nigel, there are some really difficult to overcome disconnects here that are more complex than the over-simplification of blaming a bunch of really disconnected politicians (who are themselves, aristocrats), party lines and pop-culture pigeonholes.

The responsibility of changing homey comfort-zones and traditions among the majority lies with us, not some "guy in the sky" in a congressional meeting. If we fall for blaming "They" and "Them" entirely for our own attitudes, we are no better than religious zealots who blame "Him." Lazy thinkers who say "Let go and let God."

EDIT: is that the point you were trying to make? or was it the opposite? I might be attacking you for agreeing with me on second glance and if I am, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
And Roger: I'm starting to comprehend the frustation you feel when you put some really good, close-to-the-heart material out there and all you're met with is witty one-upmanship and pat, little quips.

My empathetic apologies for my own part in that mess.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2012, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
And Roger: I'm starting to comprehend the frustation you feel when you put some really good, close-to-the-heart material out there and all you're met with is witty one-upmanship and pat, little quips.

My empathetic apologies for my own part in that mess.

S'ok.  May as well get mad at the sun for rising.  At least Wade isn't here...The worst that can happen is for Lucifucker to post in your thread.  Or the fat fucker who shall not be named.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
I dont see how im ignoring the bulk of your post then. The politician is just one angle of it (someones gotta vote for the guy too). This all comes down to how people perceive themselves and each other right? That then frames what you think is wrong with the country and who the other guy is and what values you believe in. What the word american means.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:20:49 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 13, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
I dont see how im ignoring the bulk of your post then. The politician is just one angle of it (someones gotta vote for the guy too). This all comes down to how people perceive themselves and each other right? That then frames what you think is wrong with the country and who the other guy is and what values you believe in. What the word american means.

Yeah, I caught that. See my EDIT. Again, my apologies. I took what you said paradoxically.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 13, 2012, 07:21:36 PM
No worries :)
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Triple Zero on February 13, 2012, 09:09:42 PM
Quote from: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
And Roger: I'm starting to comprehend the frustation you feel when you put some really good, close-to-the-heart material out there and all you're met with is witty one-upmanship and pat, little quips.

Sorry :( I was in a funny mood.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 13, 2012, 11:51:39 PM
This is not a subject that I know anything about so I don't have any input, but it was an interesting read; thanks Navkat.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 14, 2012, 05:52:39 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 13, 2012, 11:51:39 PM
This is not a subject that I know anything about so I don't have any input, but it was an interesting read; thanks Navkat.

Yeah, man. I thought you'd dig it for sure. PLEASE catch Order Of Myths if you have Netflix. I SWEAR you won't be sorry. <3
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 14, 2012, 05:53:31 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 13, 2012, 09:09:42 PM
Quote from: navkat on February 13, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
And Roger: I'm starting to comprehend the frustation you feel when you put some really good, close-to-the-heart material out there and all you're met with is witty one-upmanship and pat, little quips.

Sorry :( I was in a funny mood.

No harm, no foul. I'll still have yuor babies.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Elder Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 06:10:39 AM
damn. i don't think the world would be ready for those babies!
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Triple Zero on February 14, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
As long as she returns them back when she's done with em.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 14, 2012, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 14, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
As long as she returns them back when she's done with em.

Don't I always stuff 'em back under the mattress exactly as I found them? I even make the bed and everything.

Sheesh! What do you think I am? A savage?
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 14, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
Belgians can breed with humans?
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Elder Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
Belgians can breed with humans?

Yes.  the offspring are, in fact, more rugged than Belgians, and more docile than humans.
they are, unfortunately, sterile.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 14, 2012, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
Belgians can breed with humans?

Yes.  the offspring are, in fact, more rugged than Belgians, and more docile than humans.
they are, unfortunately, sterile.

But will they carry your shit and pull your cart?
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Elder Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
Belgians can breed with humans?

Yes.  the offspring are, in fact, more rugged than Belgians, and more docile than humans.
they are, unfortunately, sterile.

But will they carry your shit and pull your cart?

I don't know.  they are generally harvested for their soft soft fur, and their lean meat (high in omega fatty acids) well before they reach the point that they could carry much.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on February 14, 2012, 03:55:21 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:49:02 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on February 14, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on February 14, 2012, 03:40:55 PM
Belgians can breed with humans?

Yes.  the offspring are, in fact, more rugged than Belgians, and more docile than humans.
they are, unfortunately, sterile.

But will they carry your shit and pull your cart?

I don't know.  they are generally harvested for their soft soft fur, and their lean meat (high in omega fatty acids) well before they reach the point that they could carry much.

Everything always comes back to eating babies.  :lol:
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: kingyak on February 14, 2012, 06:02:54 PM
For the past year or so, every time Ol' Slac  (http://open.spotify.com/track/5MqlcEfc4gJnLjecEZdB8c) by Grayson Capps has popped up in my music rotation, I've thought "I should find out who Joe Cain was" and then forgotten by the time I was in a position to do so. Thanks for the history.
Title: Re: [History Dept] In case y'all didn't know, Mardi Gras started in Mobile
Post by: navkat on February 14, 2012, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: kingyak on February 14, 2012, 06:02:54 PM
For the past year or so, every time Ol' Slac  (http://open.spotify.com/track/5MqlcEfc4gJnLjecEZdB8c) by Grayson Capps has popped up in my music rotation, I've thought "I should find out who Joe Cain was" and then forgotten by the time I was in a position to do so. Thanks for the history.

Hey, thanks for enjoying it and thanks for the feedback. Mardi Gras is a big part of my religion in The Church of Laissez Faire Hedonism.

No, all joking aside; in spite of the dark history, Mardi Gras really is very close to my heart. After being on the Gulf for almost 8 years (with the exceptions of the two winters in there that I lived in Vancouver, CA and back in my hometown in NY last year), I've realized that I really don't want to live anywhere that doesn't break up that most awful part of winter from New Year's to Easter (when everything is coldest and darkest and dreariest) with something to hoot and holler about. This goes beyond Seasonal Affective Disorder--there's a vibe I can't explain.

And It's not like what everybody thinks: shitfaced women flashing their titties and being objectified by men who are about one one line of blow away from rape. Mobile likes to claim for themselves the designation of "The family-oriented Mardi Gras" and that's really only half-true. While it's true that if you flash your titties anywhere during a parade in Mobile, you're going to Metro, it is also true that Carnival is a large part of family tradition in New Orleans, as well.

The sex-crazed hedonism is welcomed on and around Bourbon St, only in NOLA but people bring their kids to the parades and have "their spot" that they've had in the family for generations in New Orleans. Actually, most of the parade routes in New Orleans are safe for children and in some areas, you flash your junk, you're going straight to O.P.P for indecent.

Carnival revelry is like a giant, community-wide catharsis. When you're out there, catching Moon Pies and beads and toys and doubloons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardi_Gras_in_Mobile#The_throws), you're not thinking of the economy, politics, getting your transmission fixed, your lover who dumped you or any of the evils of the world. You are screaming your bloody head off and if you're anything like me and my ilk; you're looking out for the guy next to you and making sure you catch at least one stuffed animal for his 2-year-old child who's too young to catch but has sparkles in his eyes every time a float goes by with Spongebob or a Mermaid on it. It is a massive 2-3-week long morale boost and I've hugged and shaken hands with and cheered alongside total strangers every single year that I might never have spoken a word to in Target or on the street. I've seen total strangers who are poor as dirt, catch some flashy toy and give it to my kid...catch a rose and hand it to me. I do the same for their kids too. It brings out the absolute best in human beings that I have ever seen since the Rave ended and I'm getting a little choked up just explaining it to you.

I enjoy sharing this stuff with you guys. It means a lot to me. I wish this feeling on everyone. I wish this for everyone.

<3 <3 <3