Twice recently, I've been on the receiving end of unsolicited advice as a result of making a statement. I forget the first one, but the second one was that I'd decided to add a Spanish class to my Spring schedule because I didn't think the homework would be too hard.
I was second-guessed by two people, and one of them told me I was "jumping to conclusions" about the homework not being too hard. Neither of them asked me anything about WHY I thought I could handle the homework.
Man, I understand having differing opinions, but for some reason it just seems weird when it's about my personal life choices and a class schedule they don't even know. At all. They didn't ask. WTF.
So, unsolicited opinions about personal decisions; rude, or not rude?
Oh, and it really hurt my feelings because they seemed to assume that I hadn't thought it through, even though I decided to add this class four days after registering for my other classes. And despite knowing me.
Quote from: Nigel on February 27, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
So, unsolicited opinions about personal decisions; rude, or not rude?
Depends. In this case, I think they were simply demonstrating their total lack of social skills. Where do you meet these people? Next time you go there, bring a big stick.
I vote rude. And that second person was especially dickish.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 27, 2012, 11:25:58 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 27, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
So, unsolicited opinions about personal decisions; rude, or not rude?
Depends. In this case, I think they were simply demonstrating their total lack of social skills. Where do you meet these people? Next time you go there, bring a big stick.
Two of my best friends who I have known for many years, in this case. And the second one is FBF. And the weirdest thing about it was that neither of them knew any details at all about what other classes I'm taking or what made me think that the homework load wouldn't be overwhelming. Nor did they ask.
And, neither of them has taken that class.
The subject matter isn't bothering me as much as this bizarre assumption that I have no idea what I'm doing and haven't looked into it. Oh, and a third person made a bleeding obvious suggestion involving my website, which is that there are good free ecommerce platforms on the market now. (I'm having a sorting problem with mine.)
Unsolicited advice can be really useful if someone has a reason to think that they know something I don't know, but really? WTF? :lulz:
Actually, I should clarify; it's not just unsolicited advice, it's second-guessing.
Quote from: Nigel on February 27, 2012, 11:42:49 PM
Actually, I should clarify; it's not just unsolicited advice, it's second-guessing.
Second guessing can be irritating. Often times I feel like people do it just to have something to offer in a conversation in which they don't really have any opinion on, but they feel like they should say something.
Quote from: DECI4 on February 27, 2012, 11:47:46 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 27, 2012, 11:42:49 PM
Actually, I should clarify; it's not just unsolicited advice, it's second-guessing.
Second guessing can be irritating. Often times I feel like people do it just to have something to offer in a conversation in which they don't really have any opinion on, but they feel like they should say something.
Yeah, I see that a lot. This was... weird. I brushed off the first person who did it, but the second person was ummm special about it. I was raised that second-guessing people about their personal decisions is rude and something to be approached with delicacy, so I was kind of taken aback to have it happen twice in rapid succession.
I mean, maybe these people know something about Spanish 101 that I don't know, but...
Second-guessing/giving unsolicited advice as a "you should..." or "you really ought..." statement is pretty thoughtless. I'm pondering how I act and speak in similar contexts (since what classes you're taking is 1/3rd of all student's conversations), and I think the second-guessing is less of a judgment of you and more of them thinking out loud.
"If I was taking multiple classes and could fill a space with a Spanish class, what would my thoughts be on that?" is the question that naturally forms in their head when you bring it up. Then somewhere along the line, the thought "here's what I think I would probably do/think in the same situation" gets twisted into "here's what you probably should do in your situation."
In my own conversations, I usually assume the person has thought out their own reasons for doing/thinking as they are, and if I don't understand their conclusion I may bring that up: "How are you going to work out your job schedule this semester if you take this class?"
Or maybe there's just a bad case of the I-know-better-than-yous going around.
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
It was very odd in the context... they don't know what other classes I'm taking or why I think that one would fit well.
Second-guessing is a rude practice in general, in my opinion. It's one thing to offer advice based on having an understanding of the situation, but I think it's pretty odd to tell someone they're wrong based on absolutely nothing.
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
My favorite is parenting advice from childless people. That always goes over well with the Doktor. :lulz:
Them: You should probably do A & B, I saw that on Dr Oz.
Me: (http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/stfu-1a2a.jpg)
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
I'm more talking about the second-guessing than just plain unsolicited advice. I worded the OP badly; specifically what gets to me is when you say "I'm going to do such and such!" and without knowing anything at all about your reasons someone says "Don't you think that's a bad idea?" or "You should do this other thing instead".
It's different if they say "Oh, why do you want to do that?" and then you have a conversation about it. The straight up contradictory "You're wrong!" or the assumption that there's no way you would have thought it through is what gets me.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
My favorite is parenting advice from childless people. That always goes over well with the Doktor. :lulz:
Ohhh my god. That makes me want to stab people in the mouth.
Great. Now my friends are pissed at me because I said something.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:27:44 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
My favorite is parenting advice from childless people. That always goes over well with the Doktor. :lulz:
Ohhh my god. That makes me want to stab people in the mouth.
There's something suicidal about some people. They have no expertise in the matter, and yet they MUST be experts on the subject.
Also, being told by other parents that spanking a kid between ages 1 & 5 is "child abuse and will damage the poor little darlings", while in the same conversation bemoaning that their kids are impossible to deal with.
I'm talking about Wyldkat in particular here, but silly fucking hippies in general.
PROTIP: If you can't control your own children, please to not be telling me how to raise mine. Kthxbye.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:29:16 AM
Great. Now my friends are pissed at me because I said something.
:?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:29:16 AM
Great. Now my friends are pissed at me because I said something.
:?
My local friends. The BBS. I made a sarcastic comment:
QuoteOr possibly I'm a completely clueless person with very poor critical thinking skills and no experience on which to base my conclusion.
which resulted in hurt feelings. I apologized for it and said:
QuoteIt did get under my skin a little that more than one person seemed to think that I had decided to add this class four days after I registered for my other classes without actually thinking about it or having any idea what I was doing. And I didn't ask for advice, I just said that I'd added it. I guess it's my own fault for using the BBS to post Facebook-esque updates.
In general, I do tend to find unsolicited advice kind of insulting, unless there is a good reason for the advice-giver to think they are privy to information that I wouldn't have.
This has resulted in a lot of criticisms and one flounce. And I am talking about people who have been my IRL friends here locally for ten years or more.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:29:16 AM
Great. Now my friends are pissed at me because I said something.
:?
My local friends. The BBS. I made a sarcastic comment:
QuoteOr possibly I'm a completely clueless person with very poor critical thinking skills and no experience on which to base my conclusion.
which resulted in hurt feelings. I apologized for it and said:
QuoteIt did get under my skin a little that more than one person seemed to think that I had decided to add this class four days after I registered for my other classes without actually thinking about it or having any idea what I was doing. And I didn't ask for advice, I just said that I'd added it. I guess it's my own fault for using the BBS to post Facebook-esque updates.
In general, I do tend to find unsolicited advice kind of insulting, unless there is a good reason for the advice-giver to think they are privy to information that I wouldn't have.
This has resulted in a lot of criticisms and one flounce. And I am talking about people who have been my IRL friends here locally for ten years or more.
They'll get over it. Right now, they're thinking "I could realize what I said was silly, or just lash out instead."
Later on, they'll be thinking "I was dumb."
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
My favorite is parenting advice from childless people. That always goes over well with the Doktor. :lulz:
Oh God, had a good rage tremor just hearing you mention
that!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:38:56 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 12:29:16 AM
Great. Now my friends are pissed at me because I said something.
:?
My local friends. The BBS. I made a sarcastic comment:
QuoteOr possibly I'm a completely clueless person with very poor critical thinking skills and no experience on which to base my conclusion.
which resulted in hurt feelings. I apologized for it and said:
QuoteIt did get under my skin a little that more than one person seemed to think that I had decided to add this class four days after I registered for my other classes without actually thinking about it or having any idea what I was doing. And I didn't ask for advice, I just said that I'd added it. I guess it's my own fault for using the BBS to post Facebook-esque updates.
In general, I do tend to find unsolicited advice kind of insulting, unless there is a good reason for the advice-giver to think they are privy to information that I wouldn't have.
This has resulted in a lot of criticisms and one flounce. And I am talking about people who have been my IRL friends here locally for ten years or more.
They'll get over it. Right now, they're thinking "I could realize what I said was silly, or just lash out instead."
Later on, they'll be thinking "I was dumb."
I hope so. I was wondering if I was way overreacting, but I've been really calm about it. Offended, but puzzled rather than angry.
Until the most recent person said:
QuoteWhy do you find unsolicited advice insulting? It seems that you are assuming bad intent, which is kind of a shitty thing to do when you're talking to a group of your actual friends.
And then I kind of flipped out. :lol::
QuoteI find it insulting when it takes the specific form of second-guessing.
And sometimes I find it insulting when it's something incredibly obvious, but then I try to consider the source.
Also I kind of hate how the most innocuous statement of fact here gets turned into a NO YOU'RE WRONG fest.
I'm adding a Spanish class because I don't think the homework will be unmanageable.
I'm doing my laundry because all my underwear are dirty.
I'm planting spinach because I like spinach.
I mean, which of these remarks invites the response that I'm doing it wrong or that I'm jumping to conclusions? In what way have I jumped to a conclusion with any of these?
No, I haven't taken Spanish 101 before. But it doesn't take a genius to read the description, look at how many hours the class is, eyeball the textbook, check ratemyprofessor.com, and conclude that the homework load is probably going to be pretty light. There's really no reason that I should... actually, fuck it. Why would I think I would need to justify the addition of a class? I was just excited and sharing what I was doing with my friends.
If someone was curious about how I came to the conclusion the homework was manageable, they could ask and I would gladly type out all of that tedium I just outlined up there.
But seriously, what the fuck. Wouldn't you assume that any reasonable adult would kinda have some kind of handle on such elementary stuff?
I'm going to put a potato in my soup because it could use more potatoes
AREN'T YOU JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT HOW MANY POTATOES THE SOUP COULD USE?
No, dude. Just what. Is. Wrong with people lately?
Anyway, I'm out for a while. I don't want to have this conversation
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
I seriously hope that's not why they reacted that way, because it's totally inapplicable considering that all I said was that the homework should be pretty easy. Not the class, even; just the homework.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 06:55:47 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
I seriously hope that's not why they reacted that way, because it's totally inapplicable considering that all I said was that the homework should be pretty easy. Not the class, even; just the homework.
It would be pretty fucking stupid. But I tend to assume that the most retarded reason is the right one for any given absurd reaction. I've become comically cynical in my thirties. As opposed to just cynical.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
That's dumb. Languages, to people who pick them up easy, are easy in general.
Well, the normally spoken ones anyway, the ones that have alphabets with sounds attached to letters that make up words. Languages like math are slightly more difficult, because you're making one alphabet do a bazillion times more work, and for myself, I find the chemistry language impossible to follow just yet...
/thread jack.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:57:36 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 06:55:47 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
I seriously hope that's not why they reacted that way, because it's totally inapplicable considering that all I said was that the homework should be pretty easy. Not the class, even; just the homework.
It would be pretty fucking stupid. But I tend to assume that the most retarded reason is the right one for any given absurd reaction. I've become comically cynical in my thirties. As opposed to just cynical.
I'm starting to think I need new friends, locally. I've had these ones for most of (and in some cases, all of) my adult life, but lately they don't seem to fit very well any more.
And oddly, as I grow older and less contentious, they seem to become more contradictory and, in some cases, even disparaging. I have been finding it very curious how opinionated, and discouraging, some of them have been about fairly innocuous choices the two of us who are in school are making. It's especially odd because the rest of them all have graduate or doctorate degrees, so it's not like they even feel threatened, the way sometimes groups of peers will if most of them don't have degrees and then one or two people decide to pursue an education. Mona got slammed because she uses an iPad, and now I'm getting shit for taking four classes next term (technically five, but one of them is a one-credit class that only meets five times the whole term). What the hell is that?
I also kind of feel like now that I finally have my post-divorce life under control and going in a positive direction, all of a sudden this group of friends has started treating me as if I'm less competent. It's baffling.
That is certainly odd, Nigel. My only guess is that they are failing to see things outside of their long-held views. An iPad is a device that simply has no use other than as a vanity item, and you can't possibly type notes on it at any meaningful speed. Spanish was difficult for me, and I was always buried in homework, or that is what all the people I've known who have taken Spanish have said, therefore every Spanish class must necessarily be like that.
I'm probably not even close, but that's all I can make compute, given that I don't know the people, and all I've got to go on is what you've said.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on February 28, 2012, 07:00:49 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
That's dumb. Languages, to people who pick them up easy, are easy in general.
Well, the normally spoken ones anyway, the ones that have alphabets with sounds attached to letters that make up words. Languages like math are slightly more difficult, because you're making one alphabet do a bazillion times more work, and for myself, I find the chemistry language impossible to follow just yet...
/thread jack.
I couldn't speak Math until I encountered the Calculus dialect. Then poof! it all made sense. Chemistry gives me the heebie-jeebies. I can't even shape my mouth in the appropriate contortions to utter its foul incantations. I'd love to learn Music, though. Which is mostly Math augmented by various gestures and tools.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:57:36 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 06:55:47 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
It's knee-jerk not-racism. *sage nods* They're insulted on behalf of the Mexicans who have trouble with English. Naturally if English is a complex language then Spanish is a complex language with lots of homework. Because it's all about equality.
This is a conversation I had with someone about taking Spanish in high school and why the 101 should be considered an AP course when all it was was vocabulary lists and reading aloud in class.
I seriously hope that's not why they reacted that way, because it's totally inapplicable considering that all I said was that the homework should be pretty easy. Not the class, even; just the homework.
It would be pretty fucking stupid. But I tend to assume that the most retarded reason is the right one for any given absurd reaction. I've become comically cynical in my thirties. As opposed to just cynical.
I'm starting to think I need new friends, locally. I've had these ones for most of (and in some cases, all of) my adult life, but lately they don't seem to fit very well any more.
And oddly, as I grow older and less contentious, they seem to become more contradictory and, in some cases, even disparaging. I have been finding it very curious how opinionated, and discouraging, some of them have been about fairly innocuous choices the two of us who are in school are making. It's especially odd because the rest of them all have graduate or doctorate degrees, so it's not like they even feel threatened, the way sometimes groups of peers will if most of them don't have degrees and then one or two people decide to pursue an education. Mona got slammed because she uses an iPad, and now I'm getting shit for taking four classes next term (technically five, but one of them is a one-credit class that only meets five times the whole term). What the hell is that?
I also kind of feel like now that I finally have my post-divorce life under control and going in a positive direction, all of a sudden this group of friends has started treating me as if I'm less competent. It's baffling.
Sooooooounds like you're still growing and they're in a rut. Dunno, though. Either way, I suggest solving it with fire.
Yeah... I think I'm going to avoid all of them for a while. The last thing my FBF said to me was "Well, it's a public forum and if you say something people are going to comment on it, that's what a forum's for" and I really didn't have anything to say to that. It's a public forum only in the sense that anyone can join, but it consists solely of about a dozen friends who mostly use it to organize social events amongst themselves, so it's not really. And there are certain levels of courtesy and respect I expect from my friends. If they are unwilling to treat me as a friend, I see no reason why I should talk to them.
I will use the extra time I gain to do homework and foster new, healthier friendships.
Quote from: Cainad on February 28, 2012, 12:04:37 AM
Second-guessing/giving unsolicited advice as a "you should..." or "you really ought..." statement is pretty thoughtless. I'm pondering how I act and speak in similar contexts (since what classes you're taking is 1/3rd of all student's conversations), and I think the second-guessing is less of a judgment of you and more of them thinking out loud.
"If I was taking multiple classes and could fill a space with a Spanish class, what would my thoughts be on that?" is the question that naturally forms in their head when you bring it up. Then somewhere along the line, the thought "here's what I think I would probably do/think in the same situation" gets twisted into "here's what you probably should do in your situation."
You say some very interesting things, thoughts I was trying to reach but couldn't :)
I was thinking, I probably get into similar situations often enough, but somehow I manage to deflect such remarks so they don't bother me too much. I think part of it is because I automatically un-twist them back into "they meant to say, this is what I would do", and then reply (subtly) "well, maybe that's a problem you would have in my place, but I'm confident I could manage it , I'm more wondering about <this part> of the plan"
QuoteIn my own conversations, I usually assume the person has thought out their own reasons for doing/thinking as they are, and if I don't understand their conclusion I may bring that up: "How are you going to work out your job schedule this semester if you take this class?"
THIS is very interesting. It reminds me a lot of a discussion technique both my ex and my mother learned for their work. It's called an "intervision". I didn't exactly get the details of it, but the rough gist appears to be that one person calls for an intervision on a certain topic with the rest of the team (the intervision group). The person then states their problem, topic, plan, etc. The rest of the group can then pose their ideas on this plan,
but they're only allowed to phrase them as questions. Typically the kinds of questions you just asked.
Or maybe there's just a bad case of the I-know-better-than-yous going around.
[/quote]
Reflecting on other conversations going on recently with the same person who told me I was making premature assumptions about my ability to handle Spanish 101 homework, another friend was recently complaining about the high cost of living in Portland (it's not that expensive dollar-wise, but relative to wages it's about at 120 on the cost of living index, with average being 100) and commented that she doesn't understand why it's more affordable to live in Hamburg than here. Ms. Recently Combative told her, basically, that if she doesn't like it she can leave.
Weird shit, man.
Usually if I have questions about how someone is going to manage their life, I ask them. "Wow, that's a lot of classes... what's your schedule going to be like?" because I assume that, unless they are a complete idiot, they have already thought that through.
I don't say stupid shit like "are you still going to have time to work?" because that's pretty much along the same lines as "are you still going to feed and care for your kids?" If the answer is no, then they are a fucking retard, so obviously the answer is yes and I would be a dick for asking something like that. What, are they going to say "Oh, oops, no, I was planning on losing my house and living under a bridge... DHS can take care of the kids"?
Frankly, I'm starting to suspect something that might be akin to jealousy, even though it doesn't make any sense at all. The only of us who are getting this shit are the two who are in school, and every time one of us talks about a plan for the future (Mona wants to go to Germany to write and do lab research after she finishes her degree next spring, I'm in a nifty program that will hook me up with paid research internships and taking extra credits to try to make sure I'm ready to transfer next fall) a couple of people seem to have an urge to jump on that and try to make us feel stupid. And they keep saying shit like "I don't know how you do it all" to me, and the hostility has only increased as I continue to do better and better.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 04:46:34 PM
Frankly, I'm starting to suspect something that might be akin to jealousy, even though it doesn't make any sense at all. The only of us who are getting this shit are the two who are in school, and every time one of us talks about a plan for the future (Mona wants to go to Germany to write and do lab research after she finishes her degree next spring, I'm in a nifty program that will hook me up with paid research internships and taking extra credits to try to make sure I'm ready to transfer next fall) a couple of people seem to have an urge to jump on that and try to make us feel stupid. And they keep saying shit like "I don't know how you do it all" to me, and the hostility has only increased as I continue to do better and better.
You aren't validating their decisions to toss their dreams, anymore, Nigel.
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 04:46:34 PM
Frankly, I'm starting to suspect something that might be akin to jealousy, even though it doesn't make any sense at all. The only of us who are getting this shit are the two who are in school, and every time one of us talks about a plan for the future (Mona wants to go to Germany to write and do lab research after she finishes her degree next spring, I'm in a nifty program that will hook me up with paid research internships and taking extra credits to try to make sure I'm ready to transfer next fall) a couple of people seem to have an urge to jump on that and try to make us feel stupid. And they keep saying shit like "I don't know how you do it all" to me, and the hostility has only increased as I continue to do better and better.
This has the feel of truth in a baffling situation. Ask them straight up what their problem is, and if they get even more hostile say "Look, you're being a dick, and I don't have time for this shenanigans right now, so you can A) chill out and be a good friend or B) Keep it up, in which case I'll just have to step back for a while."
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 04:46:34 PM
Frankly, I'm starting to suspect something that might be akin to jealousy, even though it doesn't make any sense at all.
That's kind of what it sounds like, especially combined with
Quote from: Nigel on February 28, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
And oddly, as I grow older and less contentious, they seem to become more contradictory and, in some cases, even disparaging.
[...]
I also kind of feel like now that I finally have my post-divorce life under control and going in a positive direction, all of a sudden this group of friends has started treating me as if I'm less competent. It's baffling.
Sounds kind of like when you were going through rougher times, they could look to you and think "At least I don't have it as bad as Nigel" or "At least Nigel and I are in the same boat" and ignore any problems or disappointments they had. Now that you and Mona are moving forward and doing something with your lives while they're stagnating, so they can't point a finger at you any more and are stuck evaluating the courses their lives have taken, dreams put aside, etc. and are left feeling insecure. But actually trying to address the issues in one's own life is obviously too hard - much easier to just drag someone back down with you.
Obviously, take all that with a grain of salt since, well, I don't know you're friends and have a tendency to overanalyze or question people's motives.
But yea, unsolicited advice where they think they could be helpful due to past experience or whatever is one thing. "No you're doing it wrong" without any inquiry or explanation, etc. seems to be tinged with jealousy and insecurity
Just a thought:
"Since I got my post-divorce life under control and started making forward progress on my education, someone in particular has been laying on the 'bitchy' extra heavy" translates to "My idiot friend resents my new found independence" in many dialects. If you get in a button pushing mood, might be fun to see what happens when you question the state of her current relationship.
I think you guys have nailed it. My FBF (who hasn't spoken to me since yesterday, after she asked "What makes you think you're so special that Spanish homework will be SO SO easy just for YOU?") has always been kind of insecure about her life station. She talked like she was late to the game of being taken seriously as an adult... late to marry, late to buy a house. Nevermind that she put herself through Berkeley and got and MPH at PSU and is always the best at what she does everywhere she works and now has her dream job at her favorite nonprofit... it's not enough to assuage that insecurity.
The others might be suffering from something similar. Z, the baby, just finished law school and hasn't passed the bar yet, has never been married, no kids, doesn't own a home (not that owning a house is necessarily a good idea these days, it's just one of those arbitrary markers of adulthood that people think is meaningful).
At least they can always count on my love life being a mess. :lol: I totally see myself as an old spinster scientist someday.
Quote from: Nigel on February 29, 2012, 02:47:03 AM
I totally see myself as an old spinster scientist someday.
That is the stuff mad science is made of, and in the end isn't that what life is really all about?
Quote from: Pope Coyote of the Wolffnords on February 29, 2012, 03:28:51 AM
Quote from: Nigel on February 29, 2012, 02:47:03 AM
I totally see myself as an old spinster scientist someday.
That is the stuff mad science is made of, and in the end isn't that what life is really all about?
HELL yes.
Nigel, could you please explain what "FBF" means? I'm afraid my E-lingo is shoddy at best.
Quote from: DECI4 on February 29, 2012, 08:54:39 AM
Nigel, could you please explain what "FBF" means? I'm afraid my E-lingo is shoddy at best.
Female Best Friend, I think, is the common expansion.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 29, 2012, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: DECI4 on February 29, 2012, 08:54:39 AM
Nigel, could you please explain what "FBF" means? I'm afraid my E-lingo is shoddy at best.
Female Best Friend, I think, is the common expansion.
Thanks.
Maybe, this one time, they thought something wasn't going to be hard, but it was, Nigel. It was very hard, and now they have PTSD because of it and you triggered a flashback by saying that you didn't think something was going to be hard.
It was really quite insensitive of you when you really think about it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 28, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on February 28, 2012, 12:21:47 AM
Sometimes unsolicited advice is merely someone trying to be helpful, not necessarily being a jackass. Or maybe feeling like they just need to add to the conversation and that was all they could come up with.
I just tend to ignore that stuff. Like when your wife is expecting. YOu get all kinds of unsolicited advice then, but, more often than not, it's just people, in their way, trying to be helpful.
My favorite is parenting advice from childless people. That always goes over well with the Doktor. :lulz:
My favourite is any sort of attitude of "superiority" when it comes to parenting, period. You don't have MY life, you don't have MY child and you don't have MY set of circumstances or beliefs. He's healthy, happy, fed, warm, loved, educated and goes to bed with kisses and hugs in a clean bed full of stuffed animals. Who cares if he wants a basketball in there too? Who cares if he wants the pink one? Who cares if he wants to spend a year wearing knee pads to dinner? He's MY kid and I'm gonna let him.
Quote from: Emo Howard on February 29, 2012, 10:10:12 AM
Maybe, this one time, they thought something wasn't going to be hard, but it was, Nigel. It was very hard, and now they have PTSD because of it and you triggered a flashback by saying that you didn't think something was going to be hard.
It was really quite insensitive of you when you really think about it.
Yes. Obviously some dear and beloved family member of theirs died because they thought their Spanish homework wouldn't be too hard.
Say, do your friends hate people quoting Monty Python as much as you do? Because you could also take revenge by turning it into a shaggy dog story that ends with NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on February 29, 2012, 10:10:12 AM
Maybe, this one time, they thought something wasn't going to be hard, but it was, Nigel. It was very hard, and now they have PTSD because of it and you triggered a flashback by saying that you didn't think something was going to be hard.
It was really quite insensitive of you when you really think about it.
Yes. Obviously some dear and beloved family member of theirs died because they thought their Spanish homework wouldn't be too hard.
Say, do your friends hate people quoting Monty Python as much as you do? Because you could also take revenge by turning it into a shaggy dog story that ends with NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
:lulz: Both of you.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 29, 2012, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: DECI4 on February 29, 2012, 08:54:39 AM
Nigel, could you please explain what "FBF" means? I'm afraid my E-lingo is shoddy at best.
Female Best Friend, I think, is the common expansion.
Yep.
I also have an MBF, but he (used to) post here so I just call him EOT.
Hey, but you wanna know what's funny? After all that? It turns out I CAN'T take Spanish after all because it's a four-credit class with a one-credit conversational section and puts me too close to the credits-per-term maximum, so it would conflict with the free lecture credits from my bridges class. I can only take it if I drop either Sociology (I'm thinking about it) or Anthropology (which would be regrettable, but not the worst thing ever as it's really inconveniently timed).
:lol:
ALL THAT. AND I CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE DAMN CLASS.
Quote from: Nigel on March 01, 2012, 04:08:55 AM
Hey, but you wanna know what's funny? After all that? It turns out I CAN'T take Spanish after all because it's a four-credit class with a one-credit conversational section and puts me too close to the credits-per-term maximum, so it would conflict with the free lecture credits from my bridges class. I can only take it if I drop either Sociology (I'm thinking about it) or Anthropology (which would be regrettable, but not the worst thing ever as it's really inconveniently timed).
:lol:
ALL THAT. AND I CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE DAMN CLASS.
well if you haven't told them yet, this means the perfect opportunity for wildly making shit up and turning it into a horrible horrible Spanish Inquisition shaggy dog story.
AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT, IF ONLY I HADN'T BROUGHT MY IPAD TO CLASS
Quote from: Nigel on March 01, 2012, 04:08:55 AM
Hey, but you wanna know what's funny? After all that? It turns out I CAN'T take Spanish after all because it's a four-credit class with a one-credit conversational section and puts me too close to the credits-per-term maximum, so it would conflict with the free lecture credits from my bridges class. I can only take it if I drop either Sociology (I'm thinking about it) or Anthropology (which would be regrettable, but not the worst thing ever as it's really inconveniently timed).
:lol:
ALL THAT. AND I CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE DAMN CLASS.
Heh. Or... "I would have my degree, but it took a whole extra semester because I listened to you assholes... And my friend took the class, and there WAS NO HOMEWORK!"
:lulz:
My friends are being dicks again. This time, believe it or not, because I bought a messenger bag instead of a backpack and one of them was all:
QuoteBased on ~16 years of using a messenger bag to carry school/work stuff, with chronic back pain as a result, I would strongly urge you to reconsider. Not to mention digging around in the things for books. If I could go back and do it again (or if I was starting again knowing what I've learned), I'd either get one a messenger-bag-company backpack or something the right size made by one of the big-name outdoor equipment companies. Since the former are much more durable and waterproof, the latter are more ergonomic and much less expensive, I'd probably go for the latter.
(Yes I know this is unsolicited advice. Yes I know you know understand how backpacks work and you've researched and thought a lot about what you want to get and are not stupid. On this issue, I care more about your comfort than I do about your feelings.)
I was fine with his anti-messenger-bag screed up until the last line, which is so "I'm saying this for your own good".
And then FBF chimed in with how she used a messenger bag for years and her back is fucked up too.
And friend #1 went on about how bad they are for your back again for a bit.
and I said
QuoteIt's terrible that you guys messed up your backs.
However, at almost 41 years old with many many years of experience with transporting heavy things on my body, I am pretty sure I have a good handle on my carrying things needs.
If you're interested in my methods and reasoning, I'd be happy to go into detail.
And lo, there was great butthurt and defensiveness.
Currently FBF is telling me that people haven't been second-guessing me. I asked her is she was finding the same humor in the ironically recursive nature of the conversation that I am.
:lulz:
The funniest thing about it is that I had already bought a water-resistant backpack for days that I walk to school... I just needed a good waterproof bag for biking, and found an awesome orange Chrome one on sale.
I do not understand this sudden need to micromanage my life.
"Hey, guys, I'm looking for those one raincoats that come in various colors and have plaid flannel on the inside, do you know anywhere around town that carries them?"
"You don't want one of those, you would be much happier with this other kind of raincoat that is completely not at all what you're looking for."
It's like, every fucking thing I say lately.
Oh, and the latest is that I should take my time with my undergrad degree and take a lot of different classes and not set myself on a specific academic track just yet. :? So I should turn down awesome academic opportunities and fuck around taking my time to figure out who I am? What am I, 18?
I can say as a person who used to use a messenger bag to bike to college, that your friends are full of bollocks. And I am sad that your friends are being that way.
Thanks... I'm pretty frustrated.
I am especially frustrated because now at least two of my friends are saying that I'm imagining things or overreacting. I feel incredibly frustrated and dismissed.
Also, the super funny thing is that I also bought a nice water-resistant backpack for days when I'm walking, but for very rainy days on my bike I wanted something that would really keep my books safe and dry. I like the waterproof backpacks, but I didn't want to deal with a rolldown top every day, so I bought the messenger bag too.
I just didn't mention the backpack because it wasn't as exciting as scoring the last bright orange waterproof messenger bag, on sale.
It looks like this:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.fab.com/inspiration/368-612x612-2.png)
I've used an overloaded messenger bag for years on a bike that doesn't quite fit and my back is still a rhinoceros.
If you adjust it right for riding a bike, you can distribute most of the weight to your hips. It was the only reason I owned one. This leads me to believe that your friends also wear small pants pulled way too high and tuck their ears into ball caps.
Quote from: Nigel on March 04, 2012, 12:04:50 AM
I just didn't mention the backpack because it wasn't as exciting as scoring the last bright orange waterproof messenger bag, on sale.
It looks like this:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.fab.com/inspiration/368-612x612-2.png)
I had the smaller version of that one.
:awesome:
Quote from: Net on March 04, 2012, 12:59:03 AM
I've used an overloaded messenger bag for years on a bike that doesn't quite fit and my back is still a rhinoceros.
If you adjust it right for riding a bike, you can distribute most of the weight to your hips. It was the only reason I owned one. This leads me to believe that your friends also wear small pants pulled way too high and tuck their ears into ball caps.
Hundreds of thousands of people use them for many years and have no problems. Hundreds of thousands of people also don't use them, and have back problems. I think that the odds are, both of these particular people were predisposed to back problems, and are blaming the problems on their messenger bag, which probably does, especially if they aren't positioning it properly (and I know one of them doesn't), exacerbate their back problems.
One of them is an overweight law student occasionally famous for being Portland's "Pants-less Santa" and the other is a professional 30-something. Both of them should be, and normally are, more reasonable people. I do not know what bug has gone up their butts but for the time being I am exiting that friend circle and if any of them want to see me they can hang out one-on-one.
Oh, and the version of that bag that I got is the smaller one, because on my frame the big one would be ridiculous!
Nigel have you considered that listening to your friends might be what's best for you? Because I really think you should listen to what's best for you. I should know because this one time I did not do what's best for me, and things turned out for the worse.
Also that messenger bag looks pretty awesome! (Mine's awesomer because it has orange AND green, but seeing it was the last one you have to make do).
Oh! Oh! Maybe your friends are just trying to
:putin:
HAVE YOUR BACK
Quote from: Nigel on March 04, 2012, 12:04:50 AM
I just didn't mention the backpack because it wasn't as exciting as scoring the last bright orange waterproof messenger bag, on sale.
It looks like this:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.fab.com/inspiration/368-612x612-2.png)
Sweet bag.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 04, 2012, 01:29:29 AM
Nigel have you considered that listening to your friends might be what's best for you? Because I really think you should listen to what's best for you. I should know because this one time I did not do what's best for me, and things turned out for the worse.
Also that messenger bag looks pretty awesome! (Mine's awesomer because it has orange AND green, but seeing it was the last one you have to make do).
Oh! Oh! Maybe your friends are just trying to
:putin:
HAVE YOUR BACK
:lulz: :lulz:
Also, orange
and green? ENVY!)
There's one glaringly obvious solution to your friends' assbaggery.
Invite me next time they have a party.
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2012, 11:48:37 PM
Thanks... I'm pretty frustrated.
I am especially frustrated because now at least two of my friends are saying that I'm imagining things or overreacting. I feel incredibly frustrated and dismissed.
If I were in your position, I would take a bunch of specific examples of recent douchebaggery and put it all in a single post or thread, and then state that I am not overreacting, but they might not have seen it.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on March 07, 2012, 05:59:30 AM
There's one glaringly obvious solution to your friends' assbaggery.
Invite me next time they have a party.
YES.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on March 07, 2012, 06:11:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 03, 2012, 11:48:37 PM
Thanks... I'm pretty frustrated.
I am especially frustrated because now at least two of my friends are saying that I'm imagining things or overreacting. I feel incredibly frustrated and dismissed.
If I were in your position, I would take a bunch of specific examples of recent douchebaggery and put it all in a single post or thread, and then state that I am not overreacting, but they might not have seen it.
Won't work. They have their blinders on.
I did, however, have dinner with FBF tonight, and somewhat fortuitously her job has just been having "boundary training" this week, so when I told her that what bothered me was largely that I set a clear boundary and it was immediately trampled over, she got it. So that's all cool at least.
Oh yeah, well I have been a camel for 9 years and I can tell you from personal experience that's really realer than theirs that carrying shit on your back is not all it's cracked up to be. For one, there's the whole thing about not finding jackets that fit and for two, all kinds of middle eastern guys in your Anatomy classes try to mount you and ride you home after school.
I'm sorry but my experience with carrying stuff is clearly the winner in this case and I wouldn't say anything at all but I feel it's important that your friends learn right from wrong from an expert.
Nav, you are so weird! :lol:
Quote from: navkat on March 13, 2012, 07:44:33 PM
Oh yeah, well I have been a camel for 9 years and I can tell you from personal experience that's really realer than theirs that carrying shit on your back is not all it's cracked up to be. For one, there's the whole thing about not finding jackets that fit and for two, all kinds of middle eastern guys in your Anatomy classes try to mount you and ride you home after school.
I'm sorry but my experience with carrying stuff is clearly the winner in this case and I wouldn't say anything at all but I feel it's important that your friends learn right from wrong from an expert.
:lulz: I am totally coming to you for a retort the next time.
Navkat's been on a fucking roll lately. :lulz: