http://blog.easydns.org/2012/02/29/verisign-seizes-com-domain-registered-via-foreign-registrar-on-behalf-of-us-authorities/
Yesterday Forbes broke the news that Canadian Calvin Ayre and partners who operate the Bodog online gambling empire have been indicted in the U.S., and in a blog post Calvin Ayre confirmed that their bodog.com domain had been seized by homeland security. As reported in Forbes (hat tip to The Domains for the cite),
According to the six-page indictment filed by Rosenstein, Ayre worked with Philip, Ferguson and Maloney to supervise an illegal gambling business from June 2005 to January 2012 in violation of Maryland law. The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country," Rosenstein said in a statement. "Many of the harms that underlie gambling prohibitions are exacerbated when the enterprises operate over the Internet without regulation."
That is a truly scary quote but we'll emphasize that: "The indictment focuses on the movement of funds outside the U.S." and that you can't just "flout US law" by not being in the US. What also needs to be understood is that the domain bodog.com was registered to via a non-US Registrar, namely Vancouver's domainclip.
So Here's Where It Get's Scary...
We all know that with some US-based Registrars (*cough* Godaddy *cough*), all it takes is a badge out of a box of crackerjacks and you have the authority to fax in a takedown request which has a good shot at being honoured. We also know that some non-US registrars, it takes a lot more "due process-iness" to get a domain taken down.
But now, none of that matters, because in this case the State of Maryland simply issued a warrant to .com operator Verisign, (who is headquartered in California) who then duly updated the rootzone for .com with two new NS records for bodog.com which now redirect the domain to the takedown page.
This is exactly the scenario we were worried about when Verisign originally tabled their very troubling takedown proposal. Said proposal was quickly retracted, but here we have the same situation playing out anyway. Granted, this was an actual court order, to Verisign – not a "request" from a governmental or "quasi-governmental" agency as originally proposed.
But at the end of the day what has happened is that US law (in fact, Maryland state law) as been imposed on a .com domain operating outside the USA, which is the subtext we were very worried about when we commented on SOPA. Even though SOPA is currently in limbo, the reality that US law can now be asserted over all domains registered under .com, .net, org, .biz and maybe .info (Afilias is headquartered in Ireland by operates out of the US).
This is no longer a doom-and-gloom theory by some guy in a tin foil hat. It just happened.
read more (http://blog.easydns.org/2012/02/29/verisign-seizes-com-domain-registered-via-foreign-registrar-on-behalf-of-us-authorities/)
Pickles' sorta-girlfriend was hang out with me in my room last night and mentioned something about how she liked dystopian future novels. I then asked her if she noticed that we were living in one and it just kinda sneaked up on most people. She was surprised by the revelation. I have another bit of fodder for her now.
That's making me crazy.
Just because you are a non-US citizen running a non-American business in a foreign country doesn't mean that not only are you not subject to US law, but actually the law of a specific state.
Twid,
Has to learn the books from 49 different places now, apparently.
So this mean that PD.com needs a new TLD? Why is my country full of retard?
Yeah when we move hosting to a German dedicated server, we might want to consider that.
And what goes for .com, goes for .org and .net too (so PD.org won't work either)
Although it's not that bad, they "just" order the DNS to point the domain to a different IP that hosts the takedown notice. If the server itself is not under US jurisdiction, it continues running just fine--you'd need to surf straight to the IP, or have another domain point at it.
It sucks for the Google rankings, and for people that might not be able to find where it went, if such a thing happens.
When we get the dedicated set up, it might be worth configuring some non-US (sub)domain to point at it, just so people know beforehand where to go. I say sub domain, because they're basically free. We could ask the guys at the German Discordia forum (they seemed nice) maybe.
This is probably why Kicvkasstorrents is now at kat.ph, as everybody saw this coming, of course.
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
Quote from: Cainad on February 29, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
No good. Dok Howl is gonna blow it up, remember?
God damn I hate our justice system.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 29, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cainad on February 29, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
No good. Dok Howl is gonna blow it up, remember?
Let's get a Kickstarter to replace the Moon with our server, then. Dok can blow it up, that means the space is free, right?
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 29, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cainad on February 29, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
No good. Dok Howl is gonna blow it up, remember?
Let's get a Kickstarter to replace the Moon with our server, then. Dok can blow it up, that means the space is free, right?
Not sure if punning...
Apparently .info is controlled by an Irish company (http://www.afilias.info/about-us).
We could also get principiadiscordia.eu since Faust's in an EU member state.
A quick check shows both would cost about 32,50 euro per year. Is that much? What do we (Faust) pay for our other domains?
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:55:58 PM
Apparently .info is controlled by an Irish company (http://www.afilias.info/about-us).
We could also get principiadiscordia.eu since Faust's in an EU member state.
A quick check shows both would cost about 32,50 euro per year. Is that much? What do we (Faust) pay for our other domains?
You Germanic types and your commas. I read that as EUR 32500 and almost choked.
Quote from: That'll be five Twid, please. on February 29, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:55:58 PM
Apparently .info is controlled by an Irish company (http://www.afilias.info/about-us).
We could also get principiadiscordia.eu since Faust's in an EU member state.
A quick check shows both would cost about 32,50 euro per year. Is that much? What do we (Faust) pay for our other domains?
You Germanic types and your commas. I read that as EUR 32500 and almost choked.
Me too. My question is if we get a new server and a new domain and such . . . will Faust be allowed to accept funds from US citizens for site upkeep or will that give the US all the rights it needs to jump in because "Funds are moving outside the US" ?
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country,"
Holy fuck. Could we be any more arrogant as a nation?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 29, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cainad on February 29, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
No good. Dok Howl is gonna blow it up, remember?
Who cares? Kickstarter is for leeching money off of suckers.
Or so I am told.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 29, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country,"
Holy fuck. Could we be any more arrogant as a nation?
We could remotely execute suspected terrorists in a foreign nation without... wait, no. We could file a secret injunction against a whistleblower for publishing embarrassing... no. We could make Scotland Yard our bitches for cybercri--no.
Yeah, I got nothing.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 29, 2012, 06:59:18 PM
Quote from: That'll be five Twid, please. on February 29, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:55:58 PM
Apparently .info is controlled by an Irish company (http://www.afilias.info/about-us).
We could also get principiadiscordia.eu since Faust's in an EU member state.
A quick check shows both would cost about 32,50 euro per year. Is that much? What do we (Faust) pay for our other domains?
You Germanic types and your commas. I read that as EUR 32500 and almost choked.
Me too. My question is if we get a new server and a new domain and such . . . will Faust be allowed to accept funds from US citizens for site upkeep or will that give the US all the rights it needs to jump in because "Funds are moving outside the US" ?
Sorry about the comma :) I usually use dots with decimal numbers, especially when posting in English, but with money the comma is more engrained, cause I see it everywhere on pricetags and such.
And funds from US citizens has nothing to do with the server and the domain. It just goes to Faust, and then he pays the server bills from it. So your funds are already moving outside the US :)
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on February 29, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 29, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country,"
Holy fuck. Could we be any more arrogant as a nation?
We could remotely execute suspected terrorists in a foreign nation without... wait, no. We could file a secret injunction against a whistleblower for publishing embarrassing... no. We could make Scotland Yard our bitches for cybercri--no.
Yeah, I got nothing.
Aww don't worry, I'm sure you'll find a way! It's one of your many talents! And you MUST, think of the French, you show them what
real arrogance is made of!
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on February 29, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 29, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country,"
Holy fuck. Could we be any more arrogant as a nation?
We could remotely execute suspected terrorists in a foreign nation without... wait, no. We could file a secret injunction against a whistleblower for publishing embarrassing... no. We could make Scotland Yard our bitches for cybercri--no.
Yeah, I got nothing.
How about we tell Great Britain that we'll kidnap their subjects right off their streets if we damn well please.
Um. Wait. We did that, too.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 01, 2012, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on February 29, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 29, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
The indictment focuses on the movement of funds from accounts outside the U.S., in Switzerland, England, Malta, and Canada, and the hiring of media resellers and advertisers to promote Internet gambling.
"Sports betting is illegal in Maryland, and federal law prohibits bookmakers from flouting that law simply because they are located outside the country,"
Holy fuck. Could we be any more arrogant as a nation?
We could remotely execute suspected terrorists in a foreign nation without... wait, no. We could file a secret injunction against a whistleblower for publishing embarrassing... no. We could make Scotland Yard our bitches for cybercri--no.
Yeah, I got nothing.
How about we tell Great Britain that we'll kidnap their subjects right off their streets if we damn well please.
Um. Wait. We did that, too.
That was in revenge for what they did to our sailors in before 1812.
Holy fuck.
waitwaitwaitwait I forgot to mention this
ALL YOUR .COM ARE BELONG TO U.S.
aaaahahahahahaha in 2012 WAR WAS BEGINNING :lulz:
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 08:49:18 AM
waitwaitwaitwait I forgot to mention this
ALL YOUR .COM ARE BELONG TO U.S.
aaaahahahahahaha in 2012 WAR WAS BEGINNING :lulz:
Since all of you non-Americans are subject to US law regardless of what borders you happen to be skulking behind you might as well all become US citizens and have a vote. But you damn well better speak
MERKIN ENGLISH
Twid,
kinda serious here. Wants to see 6 billion Americans voting.
Wait, so... If I make a website called gaymarriage.com where we plan gay marriages or some shit, the Feds could seize that domain because gay marriage is outlawed in a bunch of states? even if I live in the UK? what the shitting fuck?
Quote from: bds on March 01, 2012, 09:18:18 AM
Wait, so... If I make a website called gaymarriage.com where we plan gay marriages or some shit, the Feds could seize that domain because gay marriage is outlawed in a bunch of states? even if I live in the UK? what the shitting fuck?
No no no....
See, here's where it gets crazy complicated. Gay marriage is ok in best state in America Massachusetts and the lesser states known as Connecticunt, Iowa funny nickname to this state, New Hamster, Spoo York, Derpmont, The District of Columbia and two Native American Tribes down around Nigelway. Oh and sometimes Caliscornia depending on the weather.
Except you're fucked over in like, 36 other states. Depends on the jurisdiction. But since apparently Maryland is setting the standard for planet Earth, your recognition is as follows:
Same sex marriages performed elsewhere recognized.
But then DOMA.
You're going to jail in a bunch of different places, Sodomite!
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:55:58 PM
Apparently .info is controlled by an Irish company (http://www.afilias.info/about-us).
We could also get principiadiscordia.eu since Faust's in an EU member state.
A quick check shows both would cost about 32,50 euro per year. Is that much? What do we (Faust) pay for our other domains?
Its three times the cost of the .com or .org domains but it would almost be worth it to get away from the self proclaimed king of the internet that is the U.S.
I'M FUCKED FOREVER?!?!?!?! :horrormirth: :horrormirth: :horrormirth:
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMWhen we get the dedicated set up, it might be worth configuring some non-US (sub)domain to point at it, just so people know beforehand where to go. I say sub domain, because they're basically free. We could ask the guys at the German Discordia forum (they seemed nice) maybe.
You're not
probably talking about us (http://"http://aktion23.userboard.org/"), are you? :wink: Otherwise I would enjoy a link to the
obviously unknown German Discordia forum. :thumb:
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMYeah when we move hosting to a German dedicated server, we might want to consider that.
I am not sure if you really want that, it's like curing a desease by permanently poisoning the patient. Actually we were planning to move our forums from our current hoster to a more professional one... while using a .com to avoid some german legal mumbo-jumbo that's connected to .de domains. Now this thread made me think about our .com decission...
:vom:
Anyways. Time to panic?
:omg:
Meh, I don't think so. As long as only a
domain is seized yet the servers with all the data are still up and running and there's no partyvan in front of your house...
Quote from: That'll be five Twid, please. on March 01, 2012, 09:12:20 AMSince all of you non-Americans are subject to US law regardless of what borders you happen to be skulking behind you might as well all become US citizens and have a vote. But you damn well better speak MERKIN ENGLISH
Twid,
kinda serious here. Wants to see 6 billion Americans voting.
And I'd like to see 6 billion people dancing, in the middle of the streets.
Can you explain me, say I'd become a US citizen, why'd I want to be voting again? Just like your Department of the Interior, it doesn't quite seem to serve the same function as it does in the rest of the world. What's it supposed to do, in the US? Or is it more like a sort of cargo-cult phenomenon, that you just go through the movements because you were told it once had some sort of wonderful magical effect and maybe it'll happen again?
I'm all for traditions and such, but do I
have to?
;-)
Quote from: bds on March 01, 2012, 09:18:18 AMWait, so... If I make a website called gaymarriage.com where we plan gay marriages or some shit, the Feds could seize that domain because gay marriage is outlawed in a bunch of states? even if I live in the UK? what the shitting fuck?
As far as I understand, you need to be doing business with Americans too. So maybe if you'd have a site called gay-marriage-planner.com and you'd organize American gay marriages or some such.
But even then, I dunno if gay marriage is outlawed in the same way as sports betting is? Because the first one is just not possible or recognized in certain states and the latter is actually illegal in the sense that it'll get you fined or jailed if you do it in the wrong states.
Quote from: Faust on March 01, 2012, 09:30:27 AMIts three times the cost of the .com or .org domains but it would almost be worth it to get away from the self proclaimed king of the internet that is the U.S.
It was just the first place I looked to get a ballpark, better deals can probably be found, as registrars/name resellers vary wildly in price.
Quote from: Bwana Honolulu on March 01, 2012, 01:22:43 PMQuote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMWhen we get the dedicated set up, it might be worth configuring some non-US (sub)domain to point at it, just so people know beforehand where to go. I say sub domain, because they're basically free. We could ask the guys at the German Discordia forum (they seemed nice) maybe.
You're not probably talking about us (http://"http://aktion23.userboard.org/"), are you? :wink: Otherwise I would enjoy a link to the obviously unknown German Discordia forum. :thumb:
Yes, you guys! :D But now I see you don't have your own domain.
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMYeah when we move hosting to a German dedicated server, we might want to consider that.
I am not sure if you really want that, it's like curing a desease by permanently poisoning the patient. Actually we were planning to move our forums from our current hoster to a more professional one... while using a .com to avoid some german legal mumbo-jumbo that's connected to .de domains. Now this thread made me think about our .com decission...
can you explain why it's like curing a disease by fatally poisoning the patient? I know the German gvmt isn't to be entirely trusted either (with the Bundestrojan, etc) but it's pretty hard to find places that are, and well, I'm fairly sure that the US is in fact worse.
can you tell me more about the legal mumbo-jumbo connected to .de domains?
Is it to do with the hate speech laws? Because I looked into that right after I found out about the Hetzner.de dedicated server offer, and it's really not nearly as bad as I thought. We'd be banning neo-nazis anyway, so now we gotta delete their posts too (or at least remove the swastikas or whatever)--the important part is, you get a notice if you would please take it down, and you don't get in trouble for it:
it's WAY more lenient than the sort of fucked up shit you get into if you accidentally get copyrighted RIAA/MPAA material on your site and one of their lawyers sees it on their bad day (you need to be pretty unlucky, but it's been shown to happen)
QuoteAnyways. Time to panic?
:omg:
Meh, I don't think so. As long as only a domain is seized yet the servers with all the data are still up and running and there's no partyvan in front of your house...
Well that is one of the reasons why the new server is not going to be physically located in the US. The other reason is that Dreamhost sucks for the service we're (not) getting.
You're right that losing the domain does not imply losing the data (I said the same in one of my earlier posts ITT), however:
- it's extremely inconvenient
- your domain will show an ugly US takedown notice banner
- your visitors will need to track down or figure out the new domain
-
register a new US-controlled domain, host the same content that was deemed illegal, and it'll get taken down immediately, you're not going to get your content back up unless you put it on a free domain, so you might as well do that from the start- also, the principle of the thing.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: That'll be five Twid, please. on March 01, 2012, 09:12:20 AMSince all of you non-Americans are subject to US law regardless of what borders you happen to be skulking behind you might as well all become US citizens and have a vote. But you damn well better speak MERKIN ENGLISH
Twid,
kinda serious here. Wants to see 6 billion Americans voting.
And I'd like to see 6 billion people dancing, in the middle of the streets.
Can you explain me, say I'd become a US citizen, why'd I want to be voting again? Just like your Department of the Interior, it doesn't quite seem to serve the same function as it does in the rest of the world. What's it supposed to do, in the US? Or is it more like a sort of cargo-cult phenomenon, that you just go through the movements because you were told it once had some sort of wonderful magical effect and maybe it'll happen again?
I'm all for traditions and such, but do I have to?
;-)
Only in the state of Australia, my good man. In the rest of Amearthica, you have the option of voting.
But of course you would want to. It's like superbowl. You don't have to like or even understand football to enjoy it. And just like the superbowl you get to rush home and have a small party with your friends and watch the returns, glued to the TV until 2 am as the pundits excitedly toss swing states back and forth between the two contenders, projecting and rejecting wins. And then you get to wave your asses at the losing team and your middle finger at the winning team, depending on which one you fall under. It's great fun.
Plus, can you imagine if all the havoc you foreign Americans could wreak by massively writing in a candidate?
Also, you want to see 5,999,999,999 people dancing in the streets. It's not pretty when I attempt it.
Quote from: Bwana Honolulu on March 01, 2012, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMWhen we get the dedicated set up, it might be worth configuring some non-US (sub)domain to point at it, just so people know beforehand where to go. I say sub domain, because they're basically free. We could ask the guys at the German Discordia forum (they seemed nice) maybe.
You're not probably talking about us (http://"http://aktion23.userboard.org/"), are you? :wink: Otherwise I would enjoy a link to the obviously unknown German Discordia forum. :thumb:
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 29, 2012, 05:24:41 PMYeah when we move hosting to a German dedicated server, we might want to consider that.
I am not sure if you really want that, it's like curing a desease by permanently poisoning the patient. Actually we were planning to move our forums from our current hoster to a more professional one... while using a .com to avoid some german legal mumbo-jumbo that's connected to .de domains. Now this thread made me think about our .com decission...
:vom:
Anyways. Time to panic?
:omg:
Meh, I don't think so. As long as only a domain is seized yet the servers with all the data are still up and running and there's no partyvan in front of your house...
Principles are for
those people walking (we're against that sort of thing). It can't happen to us.
Quote from: That'll be five Twid, please. on March 01, 2012, 04:45:34 PM
Also, you want to see 5,999,999,999 people dancing in the streets. It's not pretty when I attempt it.
as long as it is IMPROPER!
IMPROPER DANCING!?
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREETS!
(Somebody better notify the chief of police)
... which was a very good way to start the day, as I biked to the Young Researchers Centre this morning.
I actually believe privacy laws, on the whole, are stronger in Germany than in the USA. Of course, this is like pointing out Genghis Khan is worse than Commodus...objectively speaking, we're still talking terrible, but the scale between the two should make it clear which is worse.
Quote from: Cain on March 01, 2012, 09:36:59 PM
I actually believe privacy laws, on the whole, are stronger in Germany than in the USA. Of course, this is like pointing out Genghis Khan is worse than Commodus...objectively speaking, we're still talking terrible, but the scale between the two should make it clear which is worse.
I discussed part of that with Faust via PM when I first suggested the Hetzner.de servers, lemme see if I can find that.
Quote from: Triple Zero on February 05, 2012, 12:10:06 PM
Apparently the "no swastikas / hate speech" laws are not as stringent as I thought (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3539901), or at least not enforced as such if you take a bit of care.
Another thing is the "Data Protection Act", but we'd have to deal with that anywhere in the EU, something about being transparent in the way we do or do not store personal data. For example I think Hetzner themselves deal with it via this privacy statement (http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/legal/datenschutz)--we could have something like "we use cookies for login purposes and will not share your personal data with third parties".
CRAP I just realized something, from the Privacy statement on Hetzner.de: "According to the Federal Data Protection Act you have a right to disclose, amend, block or delete your saved information" this is true for the entire EU and it sounds like that would force us to change our policy on account deletion :( I should ask/search around for some legal advice on this and ways around it, for instance I don't suppose you can ask a credit agency to delete your data in order to clear your credit rating either :)
Finally there's the Telecommunications Data Retention Directive ... which I thought was also EU-wide, but apparently Germany ruled it unconstitutional in 2010! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention#Germany) That's pretty sweet.
of course IANAL especially not a German one.
Kouichi Toyama doesn't seem so fucking crazy now, does he?
:lol:
:eek:
:horrormirth:
I just had a knock-down, drag-out with someone about this very topic tonight. It just amazes me how some of the same people who'll defend a Catholic employer and insurer's right (ugh) to make reproductive health decisions for its employees (thereby creating a nasty precedent for both a free-for-all insurer exclusions orgy as well as firmly establish creed-discrimination in the workplace) on the grounds that it is unconstitutional to yadda yadda yadda will also argue in favor of...ofuk.
I'm just fucking tired, you know, dude?
Quote from: navkat on March 02, 2012, 03:48:00 AM
I just had a knock-down, drag-out with someone about this very topic tonight. It just amazes me how some of the same people who'll defend a Catholic employer and insurer's right (ugh) to make reproductive health decisions for its employees (thereby creating a nasty precedent for both a free-for-all insurer exclusions orgy as well as firmly establish creed-discrimination in the workplace) on the grounds that it is unconstitutional to yadda yadda yadda will also argue in favor of...ofuk.
I'm just fucking tired, you know, dude?
Fighting former Catholic anger at Catholicism...
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMBut now I see you don't have your own domain.
Yet. :lulz:
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMcan you explain why it's like curing a disease by fatally poisoning the patient? I know the German gvmt isn't to be entirely trusted either (with the Bundestrojan, etc) but it's pretty hard to find places that are, and well, I'm fairly sure that the US is in fact worse.
Indeed, yet until this point I have never - and obviously neither have you since that's the reason for this thread to exist - noticed such a takedown of a .com as described.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMcan you tell me more about the legal mumbo-jumbo connected to .de domains?
Well, I remember a german court order wich temporarily prohibited redirection of wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org in a certain case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia#Privacy).
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMIs it to do with the hate speech laws? Because I looked into that right after I found out about the Hetzner.de dedicated server offer, and it's really not nearly as bad as I thought. We'd be banning neo-nazis anyway, so now we gotta delete their posts too (or at least remove the swastikas or whatever)
:roll: We never had any problems about hate speech laws and I doubt any neo-nazi would ever dare joining our forums...
both his brain cells would simply burn out while registering.
(http://img.userboard.org/uploads/aktion23/smilies/animierte-smilie.gif)
And no swastikas? Poor buddhists. :horrormirth:
;-)
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PM--the important part is, you get a notice if you would please take it down, and you don't get in trouble for it: it's WAY more lenient than the sort of fucked up shit you get into if you accidentally get copyrighted RIAA/MPAA material on your site and one of their lawyers sees it on their bad day (you need to be pretty unlucky, but it's been shown to happen)
Still we hadn't seen much problems about having a .com
yet.
On the other hand, even in germany the so-called "content industry" has some grip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GVU) as we have seen in the recent take-down of a german-speaking, german-operated, netherlands-hosted movie streaming site kino.to which was ordered by a german court.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMWell that is one of the reasons why the new server is not going to be physically located in the US.
Sounds familiar to the thoughts we had.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMYou're right that losing the domain does not imply losing the data (I said the same in one of my earlier posts ITT), however:
- it's extremely inconvenient
- your domain will show an ugly US takedown notice banner
- your visitors will need to track down or figure out the new domain
- register a new US-controlled domain, host the same content that was deemed illegal, and it'll get taken down immediately, you're not going to get your content back up unless you put it on a free domain, so you might as well do that from the start
- also, the principle of the thing.
Yep, you're quite right about all this. I don't say staying away from operating a .com website is
wrong - I just say a .de might not be the best replacement.
Quote from: Cain on March 01, 2012, 09:36:59 PM
I actually believe privacy laws, on the whole, are stronger in Germany than in the USA. Of course, this is like pointing out Genghis Khan is worse than Commodus...objectively speaking, we're still talking terrible, but the scale between the two should make it clear which is worse.
This.
Just to clarify: The reason for out decission for .com and against .de were:
- Never seen any trouble specific to .com (before the case this thread here), yet to .de (see above).
- We (Aktion 23) are a german-speaking forum of mostly germans which seems to make german jurisdiction focus faster and more easily on us when using a .de domain as well.
- In the end it seemed much easier for us to anonymously register a .com than a .de. ;-)
- And of course our future servers are located neither in the U.S. nor in germany.
Quote from: Bwana Honolulu on March 02, 2012, 09:23:22 AMQuote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMcan you explain why it's like curing a disease by fatally poisoning the patient? I know the German gvmt isn't to be entirely trusted either (with the Bundestrojan, etc) but it's pretty hard to find places that are, and well, I'm fairly sure that the US is in fact worse.
Indeed, yet until this point I have never - and obviously neither have you since that's the reason for this thread to exist - noticed such a takedown of a .com as described.
Not quite like this, but there have been enough other incidents in the past that made our choice for a new server NOT US. The subpoenaing, for instance. Though the German government can probably also do it (do they keep scandals quiet better, or are there just less?), it's an extra hurdle as the large majority of our members are not German :)
Quote from: Bwana Honolulu on March 02, 2012, 09:23:22 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMIs it to do with the hate speech laws? Because I looked into that right after I found out about the Hetzner.de dedicated server offer, and it's really not nearly as bad as I thought. We'd be banning neo-nazis anyway, so now we gotta delete their posts too (or at least remove the swastikas or whatever)
:roll: We never had any problems about hate speech laws and I doubt any neo-nazi would ever dare joining our forums... both his brain cells would simply burn out while registering.
(http://img.userboard.org/uploads/aktion23/smilies/animierte-smilie.gif)
And no swastikas? Poor buddhists. :horrormirth:
;-)
... and that about sums up how "serious" these hate speech laws are, if I need to tell a German person that "the Swastika is outlawed if used in a context of völkisch ideology, while it is legitimate if used as a symbol of Hinduism or Buddhism" (wikipedia).
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PM--the important part is, you get a notice if you would please take it down, and you don't get in trouble for it: it's WAY more lenient than the sort of fucked up shit you get into if you accidentally get copyrighted RIAA/MPAA material on your site and one of their lawyers sees it on their bad day (you need to be pretty unlucky, but it's been shown to happen)
Still we hadn't seen much problems about having a .com yet.
On the other hand, even in germany the so-called "content industry" has some grip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GVU) as we have seen in the recent take-down of a german-speaking, german-operated, netherlands-hosted movie streaming site kino.to which was ordered by a german court.
Oh yes, and we got Stichting BREIN and BUMA/STEMRA but they haven't been targeting much except big filesharing sites, unlike the settlements protection racket that's being sent to individual people in the USA
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on March 01, 2012, 04:30:32 PMYou're right that losing the domain does not imply losing the data (I said the same in one of my earlier posts ITT), however:
- it's extremely inconvenient
- your domain will show an ugly US takedown notice banner
- your visitors will need to track down or figure out the new domain
- register a new US-controlled domain, host the same content that was deemed illegal, and it'll get taken down immediately, you're not going to get your content back up unless you put it on a free domain, so you might as well do that from the start
- also, the principle of the thing.
Yep, you're quite right about all this. I don't say staying away from operating a .com website is wrong - I just say a .de might not be the best replacement.
I don't think we're looking to get principiadiscordia.de either.
QuoteQuote from: Cain on March 01, 2012, 09:36:59 PMI actually believe privacy laws, on the whole, are stronger in Germany than in the USA. Of course, this is like pointing out Genghis Khan is worse than Commodus...objectively speaking, we're still talking terrible, but the scale between the two should make it clear which is worse.
This.
Just to clarify: The reason for out decission for .com and against .de were:- Never seen any trouble specific to .com (before the case this thread here), yet to .de (see above).
- We (Aktion 23) are a german-speaking forum of mostly germans which seems to make german jurisdiction focus faster and more easily on us when using a .de domain as well.
- In the end it seemed much easier for us to anonymously register a .com than a .de. ;-)
- An of course our future servers are located neither in the U.S. nor in germany.
Yeah? Where are you thinking of?
And one thing about those privacy laws, in the Netherlands and Germany, they actually
do cut on both sides, maybe a bit of a hassle for an organisation/website but they also protect individuals/consumers, even from the governments in certain situations.
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
I honestly don't know the meaning behind that emote.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
We're not going to .de (unless you mean the server, in which case, be more clear).
Yes, that would be terrible.
But I think we would not get in trouble by applying the "easier to ask forgiveness later" maxim, if some German official wants to be anal about it (and they have been/can be) they ask and we remove it, but not before.
Quote from: An Twidsteoir on March 03, 2012, 05:48:50 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
I honestly don't know the meaning behind that emote.
It means "look Germany that thing you did 3/4th century ago that you still suffer national conscience over, killed millions, that horrible thing that created the Wall slashed your country apart that terrible thing that you all said NEVER again, that thing? we trivialized it by giving Hitler a banjo, don't you think that's funny?".
It means about the same thing as a really funny black-face animated GIF.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 03, 2012, 09:05:57 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
We're not going to .de (unless you mean the server, in which case, be more clear).
Yes, that would be terrible.
But I think we would not get in trouble by applying the "easier to ask forgiveness later" maxim, if some German official wants to be anal about it (and they have been/can be) they ask and we remove it, but not before.
Quote from: An Twidsteoir on March 03, 2012, 05:48:50 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
I honestly don't know the meaning behind that emote.
It means "look Germany that thing you did 3/4th century ago that you still suffer national conscience over, killed millions, that horrible thing that created the Wall slashed your country apart that terrible thing that you all said NEVER again, that thing? we trivialized it by giving Hitler a banjo, don't you think that's funny?".
It means about the same thing as a really funny black-face animated GIF.
Hmm...
Ok.
Twid,
Still has no reason to ever use it.
Quote from: An Twidsteoir on March 03, 2012, 05:48:50 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on March 03, 2012, 02:36:21 AM
If we went to .de, would that mean we'd have to lose this emote?
:hitlerbanjo:
because that would be terrible
I honestly don't know the meaning behind that emote.
Once the move is complete and though I dislike the us deciding it owns the internet I will have multiple domains resolve here, .com and org already do and I'm not willing to just switch them off, not when they give us such good traffic.
I think making fun of Hitler is considered fairly legit under German law.
Our emoticons are safe.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 29, 2012, 09:26:22 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 29, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Cainad on February 29, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
Let's get a Kickstarter to put our server on the Moon.
No good. Dok Howl is gonna blow it up, remember?
Who cares? Kickstarter is for leeching money off of suckers.
Or so I am told.
PT Barnum reinvents every time he has a new outlet.
Question: what about Sweden? I notice TPB is running on a .se domain name, and they host loads of Nazi material. If German freedom of speech laws are an issue, then it would seem they do not apply north of the border.
Sure, why not Sweden :) I haven't had time to familiarize myself with all the differences in legislation everywhere. I'm somewhat familiar with the rules in the US due to media exposure, pretty familiar with the ones in NL due to living there, and just read up a bit on the laws in DE because I came across a sweet deal for renting a dedicated server.
Just reiterating that it's two separate things, where we rent a server (which is a computer in a server park with an IP address) and what domain we use (which is the URL that points to that IP). The first one is a pretty sure thing as Faust's made up his mind about moving away from Dreamhost, and the Hetzner deal so far is the best one we've seen. The second one, buying yet another domain in order to get away from US-controlled .com and .org is an idea that only came up when the news in this topic came to light. Before that, it seemed like it would be enough to have the server not physically located in the US.
Also moving to a different domain is not as pressing as getting a new server. The forum was offline again for some hours today and it would be really nice if we could activate the search feature again. A dedicated server will do that for us, because those problems come from the fact that the Dreamhost server we're renting now is a computer in a US-based server park that we share with a bunch of other people.
this is where I digress and talk about VPSs for a bit
I'm not sure how many customers we're sharing this machine with, but that's the reason why Faust can tweak the amount of CPU and memory resources available to PD: the machine is in fact much more powerful than what we get to use, because it "serves several Dreamhost customers (guests) and they can use the control panel to select how big a slice of the resource pie they want (for a price). This is why it's called a Virtual Private Server (VPS) because to the guest it (virtually) looks like we're renting our own private computer, while in reality it is a slice of a really big fat machine.
The "super" process that manages all these slices and allocates resources for them is called a HYPERVISOR (I'm looking at the wiki page for VPS now and just learned this--didn't want to withhold a cool word like HYPERVISOR from you guys). While it's technically possible for the HYPERVISOR to create a fully virtual environment for each guest so that it's completely indistinguishable from a standalone machine, this comes with a lot of overhead, meaning a smaller pie for everyone to share.
Here comes the part which is speculation, because I'm not entirely familiar with how this works and what our set up is. But I guess Dreamhost wouldn't do full virtualization because of the mentioned performance gains. This is fine but it might also mean that you can "hear" your neighbours if they're noisy. I dunno if that's part of what's taking the forum offline now and then, but if we really had our own dedicated server we could get to the bottom of it. Another possibility is that we are the noisy neighbours, and the landlord (HYPERVISOR) notices we're using our resources really intensively and maybe cuts us off for a while. I dunno.
Anyway, yeah, we could probably also rent a dedicated server in Sweden, or anywhere else. The thing is, while I've not been actively looking much, I've kept my ears and eyes wide open for any decent non-US-based hosting deals over the past year or so and Hetzner is the first that really popped out. Also the people on HackerNews were quite positive about it. Still, we're always open to new suggestions of course. Ask your geeky IT friends. Hit Google for dedicated hosting in Sweden, France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Switzerland, wherever, and see what deals are out there.
As for a .se domain name, I looked around on the webpage of the .se domain registry https://www.iis.se/en/ and it seems that you can basically register any free domain even if you're not Swedish. This is not always the case for every country, for instance you need to be a resident of the Bahamas if you'd want to register http://himeo.bs :(
Actually we were the noisy neighbors. We we're knocking the whole vps offline every time we had large query.
For the last three months, ever since I set the server to take a larger share of the pie and restricted search and such we've been a lot more stable.
However dreamhost have not, at least once a month they have had huge outages. It used to be that they would refund people for their down time. They stopped doing that a long while ago and it really makes the downtime insufferable.
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 08:56:42 AM
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Why does this sound like "frying pan, meet fire"?
Cloud servers are great....if you own one.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 07, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 08:56:42 AM
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Why does this sound like "frying pan, meet fire"?
:D
Actually, I've been working with the technology for awhile and its tends to be more stable than the older hypervisor/virtual server design. One of the really cool things about it is that you can build a server image, and set it up so if that server gets hammered, it will create a copy of the image, bring it up, drop a load balancing server in front of it and double your capacity until the server traffic returns to normal. At that point, it shuts down the extra servers and returns normal mode. Those hosts are paid based on usage only... and they have some nice configurations so that you don't start duplicating servers to deal with a DDOS etc.
I admit it might be a bit of an overkill for PD.com, but the pricing is pretty competitive.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 07, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 08:56:42 AM
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Why does this sound like "frying pan, meet fire"?
:D
Actually, I've been working with the technology for awhile and its tends to be more stable than the older hypervisor/virtual server design. One of the really cool things about it is that you can build a server image, and set it up so if that server gets hammered, it will create a copy of the image, bring it up, drop a load balancing server in front of it and double your capacity until the server traffic returns to normal. At that point, it shuts down the extra servers and returns normal mode. Those hosts are paid based on usage only... and they have some nice configurations so that you don't start duplicating servers to deal with a DDOS etc.
I admit it might be a bit of an overkill for PD.com, but the pricing is pretty competitive.
That does sound like a pretty cool way of doing things, I asked about the same for our server: Dynamically increasing our resources when a big hit comes its way, but dreamhost wouldn't make any money off the higher rate if that was the case because we would lower it down afterwards.
A disadvantage of going cloud is that it doesn't provide full root access, I want a machine I can freely install whatever I want on it (provided it's legal).
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 05, 2012, 11:59:36 PM
Sure, why not Sweden :) I haven't had time to familiarize myself with all the differences in legislation everywhere. I'm somewhat familiar with the rules in the US due to media exposure, pretty familiar with the ones in NL due to living there, and just read up a bit on the laws in DE because I came across a sweet deal for renting a dedicated server.
Just reiterating that it's two separate things, where we rent a server (which is a computer in a server park with an IP address) and what domain we use (which is the URL that points to that IP). The first one is a pretty sure thing as Faust's made up his mind about moving away from Dreamhost, and the Hetzner deal so far is the best one we've seen. The second one, buying yet another domain in order to get away from US-controlled .com and .org is an idea that only came up when the news in this topic came to light. Before that, it seemed like it would be enough to have the server not physically located in the US.
Also moving to a different domain is not as pressing as getting a new server. The forum was offline again for some hours today and it would be really nice if we could activate the search feature again. A dedicated server will do that for us, because those problems come from the fact that the Dreamhost server we're renting now is a computer in a US-based server park that we share with a bunch of other people.
this is where I digress and talk about VPSs for a bit
I'm not sure how many customers we're sharing this machine with, but that's the reason why Faust can tweak the amount of CPU and memory resources available to PD: the machine is in fact much more powerful than what we get to use, because it "serves several Dreamhost customers (guests) and they can use the control panel to select how big a slice of the resource pie they want (for a price). This is why it's called a Virtual Private Server (VPS) because to the guest it (virtually) looks like we're renting our own private computer, while in reality it is a slice of a really big fat machine.
The "super" process that manages all these slices and allocates resources for them is called a HYPERVISOR (I'm looking at the wiki page for VPS now and just learned this--didn't want to withhold a cool word like HYPERVISOR from you guys). While it's technically possible for the HYPERVISOR to create a fully virtual environment for each guest so that it's completely indistinguishable from a standalone machine, this comes with a lot of overhead, meaning a smaller pie for everyone to share.
Here comes the part which is speculation, because I'm not entirely familiar with how this works and what our set up is. But I guess Dreamhost wouldn't do full virtualization because of the mentioned performance gains. This is fine but it might also mean that you can "hear" your neighbours if they're noisy. I dunno if that's part of what's taking the forum offline now and then, but if we really had our own dedicated server we could get to the bottom of it. Another possibility is that we are the noisy neighbours, and the landlord (HYPERVISOR) notices we're using our resources really intensively and maybe cuts us off for a while. I dunno.
Anyway, yeah, we could probably also rent a dedicated server in Sweden, or anywhere else. The thing is, while I've not been actively looking much, I've kept my ears and eyes wide open for any decent non-US-based hosting deals over the past year or so and Hetzner is the first that really popped out. Also the people on HackerNews were quite positive about it. Still, we're always open to new suggestions of course. Ask your geeky IT friends. Hit Google for dedicated hosting in Sweden, France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Switzerland, wherever, and see what deals are out there.
As for a .se domain name, I looked around on the webpage of the .se domain registry https://www.iis.se/en/ and it seems that you can basically register any free domain even if you're not Swedish. This is not always the case for every country, for instance you need to be a resident of the Bahamas if you'd want to register http://himeo.bs :(
As a complete aside to the point of the thread, if we DO want to register himeo.bs I can possibly find someone who would do that for us.
Quote from: Faust on March 07, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 07, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 08:56:42 AM
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Why does this sound like "frying pan, meet fire"?
:D
Actually, I've been working with the technology for awhile and its tends to be more stable than the older hypervisor/virtual server design. One of the really cool things about it is that you can build a server image, and set it up so if that server gets hammered, it will create a copy of the image, bring it up, drop a load balancing server in front of it and double your capacity until the server traffic returns to normal. At that point, it shuts down the extra servers and returns normal mode. Those hosts are paid based on usage only... and they have some nice configurations so that you don't start duplicating servers to deal with a DDOS etc.
I admit it might be a bit of an overkill for PD.com, but the pricing is pretty competitive.
That does sound like a pretty cool way of doing things, I asked about the same for our server: Dynamically increasing our resources when a big hit comes its way, but dreamhost wouldn't make any money off the higher rate if that was the case because we would lower it down afterwards.
A disadvantage of going cloud is that it doesn't provide full root access, I want a machine I can freely install whatever I want on it (provided it's legal).
"Cloud Sites" don't give you root access. Cloud servers are basically disk/memory/processor and you can build your own server from the OS up... full CLI etc.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on March 07, 2012, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 05, 2012, 11:59:36 PM
Sure, why not Sweden :) I haven't had time to familiarize myself with all the differences in legislation everywhere. I'm somewhat familiar with the rules in the US due to media exposure, pretty familiar with the ones in NL due to living there, and just read up a bit on the laws in DE because I came across a sweet deal for renting a dedicated server.
Just reiterating that it's two separate things, where we rent a server (which is a computer in a server park with an IP address) and what domain we use (which is the URL that points to that IP). The first one is a pretty sure thing as Faust's made up his mind about moving away from Dreamhost, and the Hetzner deal so far is the best one we've seen. The second one, buying yet another domain in order to get away from US-controlled .com and .org is an idea that only came up when the news in this topic came to light. Before that, it seemed like it would be enough to have the server not physically located in the US.
Also moving to a different domain is not as pressing as getting a new server. The forum was offline again for some hours today and it would be really nice if we could activate the search feature again. A dedicated server will do that for us, because those problems come from the fact that the Dreamhost server we're renting now is a computer in a US-based server park that we share with a bunch of other people.
this is where I digress and talk about VPSs for a bit
I'm not sure how many customers we're sharing this machine with, but that's the reason why Faust can tweak the amount of CPU and memory resources available to PD: the machine is in fact much more powerful than what we get to use, because it "serves several Dreamhost customers (guests) and they can use the control panel to select how big a slice of the resource pie they want (for a price). This is why it's called a Virtual Private Server (VPS) because to the guest it (virtually) looks like we're renting our own private computer, while in reality it is a slice of a really big fat machine.
The "super" process that manages all these slices and allocates resources for them is called a HYPERVISOR (I'm looking at the wiki page for VPS now and just learned this--didn't want to withhold a cool word like HYPERVISOR from you guys). While it's technically possible for the HYPERVISOR to create a fully virtual environment for each guest so that it's completely indistinguishable from a standalone machine, this comes with a lot of overhead, meaning a smaller pie for everyone to share.
Here comes the part which is speculation, because I'm not entirely familiar with how this works and what our set up is. But I guess Dreamhost wouldn't do full virtualization because of the mentioned performance gains. This is fine but it might also mean that you can "hear" your neighbours if they're noisy. I dunno if that's part of what's taking the forum offline now and then, but if we really had our own dedicated server we could get to the bottom of it. Another possibility is that we are the noisy neighbours, and the landlord (HYPERVISOR) notices we're using our resources really intensively and maybe cuts us off for a while. I dunno.
Anyway, yeah, we could probably also rent a dedicated server in Sweden, or anywhere else. The thing is, while I've not been actively looking much, I've kept my ears and eyes wide open for any decent non-US-based hosting deals over the past year or so and Hetzner is the first that really popped out. Also the people on HackerNews were quite positive about it. Still, we're always open to new suggestions of course. Ask your geeky IT friends. Hit Google for dedicated hosting in Sweden, France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Switzerland, wherever, and see what deals are out there.
As for a .se domain name, I looked around on the webpage of the .se domain registry https://www.iis.se/en/ and it seems that you can basically register any free domain even if you're not Swedish. This is not always the case for every country, for instance you need to be a resident of the Bahamas if you'd want to register http://himeo.bs :(
As a complete aside to the point of the thread, if we DO want to register himeo.bs I can possibly find someone who would do that for us.
I think that would be totally awesome, personally!
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 07, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 08:56:42 AM
Cloud servers, boys... cloud servers ;-)
Why does this sound like "frying pan, meet fire"?
:D
Actually, I've been working with the technology for awhile and its tends to be more stable than the older hypervisor/virtual server design.
But how does it compare to dedicated, which is what we're looking at? I can easily imagine it'd be better than an old VPS.
Well cloud is probably the most robust to a powerful DDoS of course, but then, while it would be nice, it's not my highest priority to keep PD standing in the face of a DDoS :)
QuoteOne of the really cool things about it is that you can build a server image, and set it up so if that server gets hammered, it will create a copy of the image, bring it up, drop a load balancing server in front of it and double your capacity until the server traffic returns to normal. At that point, it shuts down the extra servers and returns normal mode. Those hosts are paid based on usage only... and they have some nice configurations so that you don't start duplicating servers to deal with a DDOS etc.
Will the host do this setting up this way for you, or do you have to install all sorts of monitoring and server scripts to get it like this?
QuoteI admit it might be a bit of an overkill for PD.com, but the pricing is pretty competitive.
In this case, what it boils down to is, got any price quotes for non-US based clouds?
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 07, 2012, 03:21:36 PMQuote from: Faust on March 07, 2012, 01:56:19 PMA disadvantage of going cloud is that it doesn't provide full root access, I want a machine I can freely install whatever I want on it (provided it's legal).
"Cloud Sites" don't give you root access. Cloud servers are basically disk/memory/processor and you can build your own server from the OS up... full CLI etc.
So how is it different from a VPS then, apart from that it can copy itself to more machines in order to catch more load?
Is the single machine you're hosting on shared with others, or is it basically renting a dedicated machine that can programmatically rent extra machines based on needs and loads?
If it's shared, you're still going to need a HYPERVISOR (sorry I'm going to insist that you capitalize this word to emphasize its awesome).
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on March 07, 2012, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 05, 2012, 11:59:36 PMyou need to be a resident of the Bahamas if you'd want to register http://himeo.bs :(
As a complete aside to the point of the thread, if we DO want to register himeo.bs I can possibly find someone who would do that for us.
Heh. I already figured that if anybody could, it'd probably be you ;-)
Relevant to this thread: http://gun.io/blog/secure-your-domain-where-is-safe-to-register-a-domain-name/
Haven't had time yet to read it myself though.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 07, 2012, 05:55:38 PM
Relevant to this thread: http://gun.io/blog/secure-your-domain-where-is-safe-to-register-a-domain-name/
Haven't had time yet to read it myself though.
It's sad that this is even a topic.
LAND OF THE FREE! HOME OF THE BRAVE!
A VM architecture is basically a big server with a bunch of mini servers sharing the processor/memory etc. A Cloud architecture is a bunch of computers, set up as a parallel processing network. For non-techies that basically means that a VM is one server acting like many servers and a Cloud is many servers acting like one. In marketing-speak it provides resources as an on-demand service, rather than a physical product (VM or Dedicated Host).
So you pay for an image that fits your average needs. If you need more than the average, you can suck up additional processing resources from the cloud. If you need even more, you spawn a second image. You're basically paying for 'access' to the cloud, once you have that access you can use as much or as little as you need... and pay for what you use. The other advantage is redundancy; a physical server can crash and the other nodes continue to host/process your images.
As for configuration, it depends on the provider. I use Rackspace (US and UK alas) and they provide a nice GUI that helps build the images/load balancers and set the thresholds for when they should kick in and drop off.
A lot of big corporations are implementing this internally (like that unnaed company I used to work for). Instead of 200 servers, they have a 200 node cloud. No more downtime, no more unused resources wasting away, etc etc.
Its really cool.
I think a Rackspace (whether Cloud or just a normal box) would be a little too much for us. I checked out Rackspace's prices for their dedis and holy SHIT they're a lot (compared to my OVH dedi). I mean I get that you pay for Rackspace's sweet lines and network and stuff, but still, I'm not sure that we've got the cash to drop.
EDIT: Sorry. didn't quite read your post -- you weren't really suggesting Rackspace.
A cloud would be really cool, but I still think we'd be paying too much, really. Especially because we're not likely to really hit those bumps in usage. IMO all we want is a dedi that's powerful enough to get search and some other functionality back up, and with enough backbone to be fast globally.
Quote from: bds on March 09, 2012, 12:21:57 PM
I think a Rackspace (whether Cloud or just a normal box) would be a little too much for us. I checked out Rackspace's prices for their dedis and holy SHIT they're a lot (compared to my OVH dedi). I mean I get that you pay for Rackspace's sweet lines and network and stuff, but still, I'm not sure that we've got the cash to drop.
EDIT: Sorry. didn't quite read your post -- you weren't really suggesting Rackspace.
A cloud would be really cool, but I still think we'd be paying too much, really. Especially because we're not likely to really hit those bumps in usage. IMO all we want is a dedi that's powerful enough to get search and some other functionality back up, and with enough backbone to be fast globally.
It depends on what resources we would need for the base image. Generally, over the past six months or so, cloud solutions are generally competitive in cost. If you have spikes, its generally cheaper. Either way, you get the redundancy due to having no specific physical hardware (ie memory, disk, CPU can blow up without affecting the site).
A dedicated server might work best for us, but without hard numbers on bandwidth, CPU and memory I can't really say.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 09, 2012, 01:09:14 PM
A dedicated server might work best for us, but without hard numbers on bandwidth, CPU and memory I can't really say.
The numbers of the Hetzner.de dedicated server are a bit further back ITT.
Hard numbers about usage, I don't know, it's just Faust that has access to them.
But do you have any price quotes for
non-US based cloud hosting providers, if they're really competitive we ought to check it out.