A long time ago, I got in a fight with my old friend Sam, over Jane, a new friend of mine that he had some mistaken impressions about. Sam was wrong about the situation, and I told him so. It led to a big fight...Sam & I were never the same again. Sure, we talked here and there, but it was never really the same.
Then a little while ago, Sam & Jane got into another spat. In this case, Sam was in the right, and Jane was in the wrong. I told Jane she was wrong. She got very upset with me..."You sided with SAM ever ME?", and she hasn't spoken to me since, despite my attempt to explain that in both cases, I said what I thought was RIGHT. I wasn't "taking sides".
So now I don't really have a friendship, it seems, with either Sam OR Jane.
The lesson is, of course, that most people - at least part of the time - view "friends" as "people who have my back, not because I'm right about something, but so that I won't be wrong alone". In addition, if I am friends with someone, I am not to ever stick up for another friend if there is a conflict.
Some people like having "friends" who will do these things. I don't. If I'm right, I want the support. If I'm not, I'd prefer to be discreetly or at least politely told I'm wrong. It IS, after all, possible to have someone's back without agreeing with what they're saying.
Also, If I'm right, and my "friends" side with the opposition because "You don't need the help, and we don't want this other person to get upset", then I think I need to find new friends. Fuck, for that matter, when people tell you "I was gonna get involved, but you can handle yourself", then they aren't friends, either.
Lastly, when I apologize - rightly or wrongly - to a "friend", and they throw it back in my face, I'm fucking done with that person.
Sorry for venting. This shit's been eating on me a bit.
I get the sense there's a lot of "Monkey Mind" going on behind all this.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 05, 2012, 05:25:35 PM
I get the sense there's a lot of "Monkey Mind" going on behind all this.
Probably. I am, after all, a primate.
I was thinking more along the lines of them, not you.
There seems to be this pack mentality/attitude around power plays and "right-ness". Being "right" gives you an edge in the pack, and your niche circle of packmates do what they can to remain "right". To say someone is "wrong" is to diminish their pack status. So it's not about "right" and "wrong", it's about power and status.
:monkeydance:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 05, 2012, 05:32:55 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of them, not you.
There seems to be this pack mentality/attitude around power plays and "right-ness". Being "right" gives you an edge in the pack, and your niche circle of packmates do what they can to remain "right". To say someone is "wrong" is to diminish their pack status. So it's not about "right" and "wrong", it's about power and status.
:monkeydance:
Ah, gotcha.
1. We're all guilty of feeling butthurt over dumb shit that we damned well know better about.
2. Having someone's back is like "Dude, you fucked up and were wrong...but I'm not going to let them beat the shit out of you over it."
3. A friend is someone who goes "you acted like an idiot--but I love you and I'm not leaving your side because most of the time, you're awesome."
I think.
You People have the right to eat terribly and get no thiamine in your diet, causing you to eventually undergo a neural disruption that makes you strip off naked and run down the street making chicken noises.
I'd just be happy if Google could help me figure out the root cause of my involuntary fasciculations and severe memory loss before I have to accept that it's time to see a doctor about the possibility of early-onset Parkinsonianism or whatever.
Hoping it's just benign old stress.
Quote from: navkat on March 05, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
I'd just be happy if Google could help me figure out the root cause of my involuntary fasciculations and severe memory loss before I have to accept that it's time to see a doctor about the possibility of early-onset Parkinsonianism or whatever.
Hoping it's just benign old stress.
They told me it was the stress, and they gave me benzodiazapam.
I still have the symptoms, I just don't care.
Can I do that and still maintain a balanced diet? Please?
As for the OP, I think sometimes people are afraid of disrupting their own personal status quo. Even for people who question such things in the world at large it's difficult to do so in there own little world because they work so hard to get it right. it's hard to get that stuff right.
But that's no excuse. If you're drowning and an actual friend is holding out a cattle prod maybe you should think about whether you're actually drowning or not. Maybe there's no water and that's just a helping hand. Or something.
Quote from: Alty on March 05, 2012, 05:55:58 PM
But that's no excuse. If you're drowning and an actual friend is holding out a cattle prod maybe you should think about whether you're actually drowning or not. Maybe there's no water and that's just a helping hand. Or something.
But that's not how you bet.
I never bet on a friend. Actually I don't like gambling at all. It disrupts my bowels.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 05, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
I'd just be happy if Google could help me figure out the root cause of my involuntary fasciculations and severe memory loss before I have to accept that it's time to see a doctor about the possibility of early-onset Parkinsonianism or whatever.
Hoping it's just benign old stress.
They told me it was the stress, and they gave me benzodiazapam.
I still have the symptoms, I just don't care.
Ahhhhhh benzos. Ativan, Klonopin and Valium. The screaming isn't nearly as loud until morning.
Quote from: navkat on March 05, 2012, 05:59:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 05, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
I'd just be happy if Google could help me figure out the root cause of my involuntary fasciculations and severe memory loss before I have to accept that it's time to see a doctor about the possibility of early-onset Parkinsonianism or whatever.
Hoping it's just benign old stress.
They told me it was the stress, and they gave me benzodiazapam.
I still have the symptoms, I just don't care.
Ahhhhhh benzos. Ativan, Klonopin and Valium. The screaming isn't nearly as loud until morning.
Lorezapam.
So, early afternoon.
People would rather be an idiot surrounded by yes-men than they would be somebody who has to admit to being wrong.
But I prefer friends over "friends" any day. Fake people get fake love.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:00:40 PM
People would rather be an idiot surrounded by yes-men than they would be somebody who has to admit to being wrong.
But I prefer friends over "friends" any day. Fake people get fake love.
And some people buy the real thing.
Lorezapam = Ativan
The Screaming tm starts with the tearing of the embryonic bubble of blankets and pillows you've created for yourself.
Quote from: navkat on March 05, 2012, 06:03:39 PM
Lorezapam = Ativan
Who cares? It makes my libido go nuts, I get to sleep, and I say horrible things to random people.
So it's business as usual...Except the sleep bit.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:02:00 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:00:40 PM
People would rather be an idiot surrounded by yes-men than they would be somebody who has to admit to being wrong.
But I prefer friends over "friends" any day. Fake people get fake love.
And some people buy the real thing.
Of course. If I wasn't agreeing with you, it wouldn't have to be called "fake love." It'd just be love.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:05:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:02:00 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:00:40 PM
People would rather be an idiot surrounded by yes-men than they would be somebody who has to admit to being wrong.
But I prefer friends over "friends" any day. Fake people get fake love.
And some people buy the real thing.
Of course. If I wasn't agreeing with you, it wouldn't have to be called "fake love." It'd just be love.
Because They™ do have love for sale. It's all over the place. You can't fucking MISS it, even if you eschew television, as I do. That new hotrod is going to guarantee you a smokin' ass new girlfriend. If you eat at McDonalds, you'll have lots of cool friends. If you buy her a diamond, it's forever. Viagra speaks for itself, but They™ tell you more anyway. If you're a smart shopper, you can get love two for one, but hurry...Supplies are limited. Act now.
Who are we?
It's weird, I've been hearing more and more about this sort of glaring flaw in human wiring. Last week there were two science articles in the news about Dunning and Kruger, how democracy is doomed to select against excellent politicians because people are incapable of recognizing competence superior to their own, and how people are able to be corrected on an incorrect assumption but that over a week or so, they'll revert back to the wrong answer and assume that it's the right answer they were corrected with (meaning of course that they're definitely right and evidence backs them up).
I wonder if this is just some random glitch in psychology or if this is selected for to help social cohesion or something. But I guess that's a bit of a tangent.
We're going to kill ourselves WITH ourselves.
That's damn effecient!
You People have the right to make a mistake or have a fragile moment without some narcissistic clod getting in your face about it publically. You have a right to drop kick them in the groin if they do. Well, basically. The right to do it also comes with the obligation to weigh the depth of the need and the repercussions. However, if you decide to kick, its only right to kick with conviction.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:15:45 PM
We're going to kill ourselves WITH ourselves.
That's damn effecient!
Going, we've BEEN doing that since the very beginning.
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on March 05, 2012, 06:19:14 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:15:45 PM
We're going to kill ourselves WITH ourselves.
That's damn effecient!
Going, we've BEEN doing that since the very beginning.
Well...that makes it sound a lot less effecient. Somebody should give corporate a ring.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:20:26 PM
Quote from: What's-His-Name? on March 05, 2012, 06:19:14 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:15:45 PM
We're going to kill ourselves WITH ourselves.
That's damn effecient!
Going, we've BEEN doing that since the very beginning.
Well...that makes it sound a lot less effecient. Somebody should give corporate a ring.
You're not
paying attention.
You People have the right to suck it up, stick it out, slug it out, cut bait, fish or buy an enormous bag of candy, even if you have an ass so wide it sweeps things from the shelves if you don't walk right down
the very middle of the aisle.
We People have the right to be ignorant sycophants, never learn anything, and continually produce misleading information, whether in person or in a long distance, anonymous setting, regardless of any horrible, horrible outcome.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:09:24 PM
Because They™ do have love for sale. It's all over the place. You can't fucking MISS it, even if you eschew television, as I do. That new hotrod is going to guarantee you a smokin' ass new girlfriend. If you eat at McDonalds, you'll have lots of cool friends. If you buy her a diamond, it's forever. Viagra speaks for itself, but They™ tell you more anyway. If you're a smart shopper, you can get love two for one, but hurry...Supplies are limited. Act now.
Who are we?
Love©
♦♦ (47 reviews)
Not a good experience. Bought Love© on a special discount offer, salesman convinced me to give the new model a try. Once removed from the packaging, Love© didn't shine as brightly as it did in the store. The patina soon chipped and faded after only short use. Love© did not perform as suggested; it took far more effort that advertised, plus Love© was simply too heavy to carry around with me, and also too fragile to leave anywhere unattended for very long. When I attempted to call the store, I was informed that the warranty on Love© expires when packaging was removed. Would not buy again.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:25:39 PM
We People have the right to be ignorant sycophants, never learn anything, and continually produce misleading information, whether in person or in a long distance, anonymous setting, regardless of any horrible, horrible outcome.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ROCK THE CASBAH.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:26:37 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:25:39 PM
We People have the right to be ignorant sycophants, never learn anything, and continually produce misleading information, whether in person or in a long distance, anonymous setting, regardless of any horrible, horrible outcome.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ROCK THE CASBAH.
Even if the shereef don't like it!
(spoiler alert: he doesn't?)
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:29:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:26:37 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:25:39 PM
We People have the right to be ignorant sycophants, never learn anything, and continually produce misleading information, whether in person or in a long distance, anonymous setting, regardless of any horrible, horrible outcome.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ROCK THE CASBAH.
Even if the shereef don't like it!
(spoiler alert: he doesn't?)
Let's don't get all fucking crazy, now.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:30:14 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:29:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 05, 2012, 06:26:37 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 05, 2012, 06:25:39 PM
We People have the right to be ignorant sycophants, never learn anything, and continually produce misleading information, whether in person or in a long distance, anonymous setting, regardless of any horrible, horrible outcome.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ROCK THE CASBAH.
Even if the shereef don't like it!
(spoiler alert: he doesn't?)
Let's don't get all fucking crazy, now.
Sorry. Combat Rock excites me.