What do you guys make of this? I'm sure there really are kids going through hell on earth in Uganda, but a lot of things on this video don't sit right. It pushes emotional/propaganda buttons nonstop from the title on ("Invisible Children", FFS) and all the stuff about "you have the power to make the president do something" (yeah, right). I had a friend comment on facebook that Kony is "(no doubt) an MI6 installment"...where's Cain, dammit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/3/11/145213/275
Turns out this thing was heavily funded by bigoted rightwing christians.
Joseph Kony has been around a LONG time, as has the LRA.
The assertion that he's an MI6 man is pretty much patently absurd.
He's also no longer in Uganda, as far as I know. He's been operating primarily in the DRC for the last decade or so.
Evangelical cash cow. It figures. :horrormirth:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/3/11/145213/275
Turns out this thing was heavily funded by bigoted rightwing christians.
Oddly enough, so is most of the nominally christian horror in Uganda. The C Street group has their thumbs in alot of pies over there, and appear to be at least partly responsible for the whole "homosexuality is punishable by death" thing. If it's true that they're funding the anti-Kony campaign I'm guessing it's a false flag operation.
From a woman who has spent time in the region and interviewed people there: http://pomee.tumblr.com/post/18899601760/kony-2012-causing-more-harm-than-good
Jason Russell is a self-promoting narcissist who tells only half the story.
Invisible Children are pretty clear about their aims, which are to launch yet another US invasion, this time in Central Africa. Such are the burdens of the civilized white man, and all that.
Because, what Central Africa really needs is yet another army romping around the landscape and getting bogged down in mass killings, religious uprisings and attempted resource control. Obviously there is not enough of that going on already. It's a supply and demand thing, you wouldn't understand.
Sure, Kony's a monster. But who isn't, in that part of Africa? Everyone's hands are stained with blood of butchered villages and ethnically/religiously driven ethnic cleansing - getting the US involved would only mean more of the same.
From what the video says, the US is already over there. :x
A couple of hundred troops, yes. Advisors and trainers, though as always with special forces, the idea that they're teaching by example cannot be entirely ruled out.
However, Invisible Children want a full on military presence. Among other things, that would almost certainly cause the Congo government to collapse. Which would then restart the central African wars again, as everyone swooped in to seize the Congo's rich, but massively underdeveloped natural resources.
And as we all know, swooping is bad.
Might be looking for an excuse to swoop on Latin America, too http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/9/us_faces_challenge_to_drug_war
Just another war set up for oil companies, by pandering to American emotions/fears.
Let's have a war for the children.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 05:28:21 PM
Just another war set up for oil companies, by pandering to American emotions/fears.
Let's have a war for the children.
"Let's get Kony, he's like Osama Bin Laden only
black."
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 05:28:21 PM
Just another war set up for oil companies, by pandering to American emotions/fears.
Let's have a war for the children.
Makes me wonder if Wu Tang would support this.
More serious, I am getting sick of hearing about this. Central Africa is a region of horrible shit, from all sides. That USAdian intervention would not just make things worse is an idiotic proposition.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on March 12, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 05:28:21 PM
Just another war set up for oil companies, by pandering to American emotions/fears.
Let's have a war for the children.
Makes me wonder if Wu Tang would support this.
Wu Tang would go over there and sting them to death, but they're a little busy with their burgeoning careers.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on March 12, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
More serious, I am getting sick of hearing about this. Central Africa is a region of horrible shit, from all sides. That USAdian intervention would not just make things worse is an idiotic proposition.
Or how about just the fact that we're broke, and we already have enough maimed soldiers from our last two little "humanitarian missions".
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 06:11:37 PM
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on March 12, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 05:28:21 PM
Just another war set up for oil companies, by pandering to American emotions/fears.
Let's have a war for the children.
Makes me wonder if Wu Tang would support this.
Wu Tang would go over there and sting them to death, but they're a little busy with their burgeoning careers.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on March 12, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
More serious, I am getting sick of hearing about this. Central Africa is a region of horrible shit, from all sides. That USAdian intervention would not just make things worse is an idiotic proposition.
Or how about just the fact that we're broke, and we already have enough maimed soldiers from our last two little "humanitarian missions".
This. Honestly I would like to see the US military shrunk to a mainly defensive force. Of course, that's never going to happen.
There would be some hilarity to be found in watching Americans run around in the jungles of the Congo trying not to be the easiest pickings since the Caribs ate the Arawaks. :lulz:
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on March 12, 2012, 06:27:26 PM
There would be some hilarity to be found in watching Americans run around in the jungles of the Congo trying not to be the easiest pickings since the Caribs ate the Arawaks. :lulz:
:horrormirth: doubly so since the focus has been on counter-IED and door kicking, not running around in the jungle.
Given how long it took American policymakers and soldiers to get their heads around the religious/ethnic and political divides in Iraq, I'd love to see how many horrible inaccuracies and blatant lies about Central African factions would be fed into the press by agents looking to manipulate US public perceptions.
Given, you know, that central Africa is about a thousand times as complicated as Iraq ever was.
Man, I know this is going to upset somebody but...there seems to be this idea among people that because places are shitty means we shouldn't try to make them better.
That isn't a pro-war stance, just by the way.
Things suck everywhere, but their seems to be this idea that just because our government is shitty, then any other issues in the world don't matter. I'm not talking specifically about any PD posters, just something I've noticed about various issues on multiple forums of discussion.
However, yeah, the Kony2012 thing is mostly bullshit. Bring awareness about an issue gets them some points, but gross missrepresentations lose them a whoooole lot more. And selling merch is pretty sick. And obviously capturing Kony isn't a cure all. No more than killing Osama suddenly stopped terrorism.
Also, I'm interested in learning about how the whole thing is Christian propaganda, since the LRA considers itself to be heavily religious. I mean, obviously promoting yourself as something doesn't mean you are it...something about the idea requires citation or elaboration.
ETA: My mind blanked on the fact that LMNO provided a link with elaboration earlier on. It's good stuff. My bad for the above comment.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
Man, I know this is going to upset somebody but...there seems to be this idea among people that because places are shitty means we shouldn't try to make them better.
I think that's up to the people that live there, Oysters. We aren't the world's cop, nor are we the world's guidance counselors. Even if we wanted to be, we now lack the money, the men, and the moral authority...Given what our recent "help" to other nations has amounted to.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 06:48:32 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
Man, I know this is going to upset somebody but...there seems to be this idea among people that because places are shitty means we shouldn't try to make them better.
I think that's up to the people that live there, Oysters. We aren't the world's cop, nor are we the world's guidance counselors. Even if we wanted to be, we now lack the money, the men, and the moral authority...Given what our recent "help" to other nations has amounted to.
I don't mean "we" as a country or "better" as in occupation. Although I agree that it should be up to them to accept the help, a lot of people give of this feeling like we shouldn't try to offer it.
I mean, even supplying money to humanitarian efforts and staying physically out of a country is help.
Not like we're rolling in the dough or anything.
But, yeah. The last thing I'm suggesting is we police the world. We have too many police at home already.
OK. And how, exactly, would be sending in troops to a notoriously unstable region of the world, whose conflicts are poorly understood at best, to capture one particular war criminal, help the region any?
As I've already mentioned, sending in US troops would almost certainly collapse the government in the Congo. The last time the Congolese government collapse, central Africa became a free-for-all, with every idiot with a machine gun and religious mania setting up a militia, while surrounding nations invaded to seize resouces or back their own proxies in the multi-sided civil war that was raging.
A collapse of the Congolese government will almost certainly, regardless of actual cause, also be blamed on Tutsi plotting, which will invariably lead to another round of blood-letting and ethnic cleansing in Congolese territories...which the government in Rwanda will not stand for. The last time the government in Rwanda got pissed off, it managed to march troops right up to the Congolese capital, sacking a number of cities on the way and installing their own corrupt ruler.
Instability will engulf places like Angola, Zimbabwe, Uganda, the Central African Republic, South Sudan, Tanzania, Burundi and Zambia. Furthermore, the Congo's natural resources - cited by the US as critical strategic resources - would come under threat, undermining economies as far away as Brazil and India.
Can you propose a plan, with certainty, that will make things better in that region without the possibility of resulting in thousands of corpses? If so, I suggest contacting the State Department, as they've been struggling with the same question for years without coming up with a good answer.
It's not so much of a question as "this place is shitty, lets leave it alone" as it is "siding with any particular actor among all of these shitty actors will strengthen their hand and relative position against the rest. Do we really want to set up a central African version of Saddam Hussein, only to have to come and knock him down a peg or two in a decade's time."
Any action in the region to re-shape the balance of power invariably runs up against this problem. Politics is a zero-sum game, and taking out any actor can potentially strengthen people who you don't want to have a free hand in regional affairs. And that's the reason why intervention of any sort should be done rarely and only in the gravest of situations.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:45:41 PM
Man, I know this is going to upset somebody but...there seems to be this idea among people that because places are shitty means we shouldn't try to make them better.
That isn't a pro-war stance, just by the way.
That.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:51:26 PM
I don't mean "we" as a country or "better" as in occupation.
...
But, yeah. The last thing I'm suggesting is we police the world. We have too many police at home already.
And that. I'm not suggesting sending troops, nor am I completely advocating Kony2012. I kind of wonder if you read all of my post before getting upset.
I'm just saying, food for thought, that
maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Now you personally have clearly put a lot of thought into the issue...so what I'm saying doesn't apply to you. I, as I'm sure you suspected, do not have any sort of brilliant plan. I'm just putting out a thought I have whenever something terrible comes to light and people start taking sides on it.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
I'm just saying, food for thought, that maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Well, let's not be passive-aggressive about it, hmm?
You say "cynical", I say "realism".
Or is there some magic about America or Europe, where we can solve the problems they can't handle? Are we smarter, or something?
Relevant to the Kony/campaign backstory, http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/
Pretty sure someone else posted it around here first, but raises several questions. As always, none good.
Given that central africa is a massive clusterfuck, how important are the more stable regimes? Mugabe springs to mind, Zimbabwe has had/is currently under sanctions not dissimilar to the old Iraq/current Iran ones. It does seem to leave the door open for Vietnam #2.
What may influence factors sooner is the crippling debt most of these countries suffer. Given the political norm to make the losing nation foot the bill for the entire thing, any potential long term conflict could literally doom large parts of Africa to perpetual debt. The asset striping would be avoided as they belong to you anyway.
So far, the only plan I've seen for "helping" in the region is putting a large number of troops in there. So, you have another plan or not? If not, why are you complaining that people aren't helping to solve a problem that you yourself do not have a solution to? That there may not be a solution to?
The overwhelming desire to "do something" is the bane of international politics. Especially when it comes to morally charged campaigns. The USA has limited resources, military or otherwise, and almost unlimited theatres demanding attention (no doubt due to the money, training, arms and security that often comes with such attention). The US also has a terrible record of using humanitarian campaigns as a guise for enriching its elite, politically connected class, and also failing to live up to its allegedly humanitarian concerns in prosecuting the conflict, or in directing its proxies in how to prosecute it. The US has shown it cannot successfully prosecute campaigns against irregular combatants, or impose a Pax Americana in unstable parts of the world.
That alone should persuade people that getting involved would be a bad idea.
"We" is intended to mean "people" not "Americans" or Europeans, which is why I said this earlier.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:51:26 PMI don't mean "we" as a country
I'm not intending to be passive aggressive, I'm trying to avoid making people feel like I'm talking about them specifically, because chances are incredibly high that I'm not. Also, placing blame rarely solves arguements in my experience.
The cynicism comment is based on a lot of instances where I see people instantly decide that because worse things happen elsewhere, or because it might be hard, than it is worth putting zero interest or effort into.
Once again, that is not me suggesting any sort of military action. Military action=bad.
When somebody, like Cain, puts effort into researching and becoming knowledgeable about it...
that is realism.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
I'm just saying, food for thought, that maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Well, let's not be passive-aggressive about it, hmm?
You say "cynical", I say "realism".
Or is there some magic about America or Europe, where we can solve the problems they can't handle? Are we smarter, or something?
Maybe it's because we are whiter.
I mean straight up, it is stupid saying that someone shouldn't go fix someone's problems if they have problems, but on the other hand, we aren't the world police, we don't have any legitimate reason to go sticking our dicks into other countries that haven't asked for help, barring some country attacking us. In that case, fuck them hard and fast with lots of explosions.
Now then, what fucking legitimate reason could you come up with for the US to use military action in Africa? It's a fucking cold thing for me say but "fuck them they aren't my people, and they haven't fucking asked for my help, Why the fuck should I go into harms way for them?" I know I'll catch some flak for that, like when I was all, "I I don;t know how I feel about the wildfires in Russia."
This coming from a guy that said, "Sure I'll accept the possibility I will get shot at, blown up etc for the good of the Nation."
So, if you can come up a valid reason for send more of of my brethren in arms into another war, where many of them will get fucked up for life.
It isn't even about, "they aren't my people." It's about, "sure that situation is fucked up, but we don't have ANY fucking authority to go there. Especially since we will make things worse."
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:28:35 PM
"We" is intended to mean "people" not "Americans" or Europeans, which is why I said this earlier.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 06:51:26 PMI don't mean "we" as a country
I'm not intending to be passive aggressive, I'm trying to avoid making people feel like I'm talking about them specifically, because chances are incredibly high that I'm not. Also, placing blame rarely solves arguements in my experience.
The cynicism comment is based on a lot of instances where I see people instantly decide that because worse things happen elsewhere, or because it might be hard, than it is worth putting zero interest or effort into.
Once again, that is not me suggesting any sort of military action. Military action=bad.
When somebody, like Cain, puts effort into researching and becoming knowledgeable about it...that is realism.
Okay, I was about to bring up a few of the real problems with the USA getting involved, but
1. Cain beat me to it, and
2. You seem to have decided what I do and do not know about the situation. There is no conversation, here. There is me, trying to make my point, and you,
already having decided what my point is. Bailing on this topic, now. You just keep on with what you're doing.
Quote from: Guru Coyote on March 12, 2012, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
I'm just saying, food for thought, that maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Well, let's not be passive-aggressive about it, hmm?
You say "cynical", I say "realism".
Or is there some magic about America or Europe, where we can solve the problems they can't handle? Are we smarter, or something?
Maybe it's because we are whiter.
I wasn't gonna go there, but since Oysters feels confident in telling me what I know and what I think, it works as well as anything else.
Oysters believes that those poor Black people just can't get on without our pearly-White assistance.
Quote from: Cain on March 12, 2012, 07:28:16 PM
The USA has limited resources, military or otherwise, and almost unlimited theatres demanding attention (no doubt due to the money, training, arms and security that often comes with such attention). The US also has a terrible record of using humanitarian campaigns as a guise for enriching its elite, politically connected class, and also failing to live up to its allegedly humanitarian concerns in prosecuting the conflict, or in directing its proxies in how to prosecute it. The US has shown it cannot successfully prosecute campaigns against irregular combatants, or impose a Pax Americana in unstable parts of the world.
That alone should persuade people that getting involved would be a bad idea.
Fair point.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:28:35 PM
2. You seem to have decided what I do and do not know about the situation. There is no conversation, here. There is me, trying to make my point, and you, already having decided what my point is. Bailing on this topic, now. You just keep on with what you're doing.
Dude...I just said I'm not talking about anybody in particular, and you chose to assume I was talking about you. Come on, now.
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:34:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 12, 2012, 07:28:16 PM
The USA has limited resources, military or otherwise, and almost unlimited theatres demanding attention (no doubt due to the money, training, arms and security that often comes with such attention). The US also has a terrible record of using humanitarian campaigns as a guise for enriching its elite, politically connected class, and also failing to live up to its allegedly humanitarian concerns in prosecuting the conflict, or in directing its proxies in how to prosecute it. The US has shown it cannot successfully prosecute campaigns against irregular combatants, or impose a Pax Americana in unstable parts of the world.
That alone should persuade people that getting involved would be a bad idea.
Fair point.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:32:03 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:28:35 PM
2. You seem to have decided what I do and do not know about the situation. There is no conversation, here. There is me, trying to make my point, and you, already having decided what my point is. Bailing on this topic, now. You just keep on with what you're doing.
Dude...I just said I'm not talking about anybody in particular, and you chose to assume I was talking about you. Come on, now.
Now I might just be a dumbass from the Army, but it did seem rather pointedly directed at Dok.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on March 12, 2012, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
I'm just saying, food for thought, that maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Well, let's not be passive-aggressive about it, hmm?
You say "cynical", I say "realism".
Or is there some magic about America or Europe, where we can solve the problems they can't handle? Are we smarter, or something?
Maybe it's because we are whiter.
I wasn't gonna go there, but since Oysters feels confident in telling me what I know and what I think, it works as well as anything else.
Oysters believes that those poor Black people just can't get on without our pearly-White assistance.
Why would you assume I'm putting words in your mouth, and then put racism into mine? Did I say white people? I haven't even described my race on this forum, so you don't even really know that I'm white. Just an interesting point.
Also, since I get the feeling people aren't reading all of what I write...
MILITARY INTERVENTION IS A BAD IDEA. I DO NOT SUPPORT IT.
Of course it was directed at me, Coyote.
But why discuss anything, when you can just jam words in someone's mouth and then claim you were talking about someone else?
All my arguments can also be used for "measures short of war" which the US or any other actor may undertake to alter the regional balance of power, I'd like to add.
Furthermore, I'd like to add that aid agencies have a terrible reputation in central Africa, and with good cause. Aid agencies help prolong conflict, as they almost invariably have to pay tribute to the regional leader of the area they are operating in. Furthermore, they are obliged to take no sides in the conflict itself...which leads to situations like aid agencies looking after the Hutu genocidaires after they fled Rwanda following the 1994 genocide they initiated.
Religious aid agencies are just as bad...all they really want are refugee porn to keep their coffers filled. There are villages in central Africa where there are three prosethetic limbs to each actual missing limb the villagers have. The villagers are actually rich from government assistance and international attention, while those who truly require help are ignored. They also go over there and "adopt" children, who then appear on US chat shows, with scripted dialogues describing the situation in a political manner befitting the agency who brought them over. As soon as they become trouble, they're dumped back in their home villages.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on March 12, 2012, 07:29:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
I'm just saying, food for thought, that maybe some people, not mentioning any names, are more focused on being cynical than being helpful.
Well, let's not be passive-aggressive about it, hmm?
You say "cynical", I say "realism".
Or is there some magic about America or Europe, where we can solve the problems they can't handle? Are we smarter, or something?
Maybe it's because we are whiter.
I wasn't gonna go there, but since Oysters feels confident in telling me what I know and what I think, it works as well as anything else.
Oysters believes that those poor Black people just can't get on without our pearly-White assistance.
Why would you assume I'm putting words in your mouth, and then put racism into mine? Did I say white people? I haven't even described my race on this forum, so you don't even really know that I'm white. Just an interesting point.
Also, since I get the feeling people aren't reading all of what I write...
MILITARY INTERVENTION IS A BAD IDEA. I DO NOT SUPPORT IT.
You make a couple of nice points, but I think I'd just rather assume you are ignorant, and then put words in your fucking mouth.
So...
Why do you think Africans are stupid? Does that extend to African-Americans, as well?
Alright, my bad. I apologize if you felt I meant you, Dok. Totally didn't mean it that way.
My central idea about people being cynical is derived from a facebook arguement with some friends of a friend of mine, wherein they decided "fuck the whole thing" while putting zero effort into learning any of it. I say they put zero effort because, when asked to elaborate, they wouldn't.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Alright, my bad. I apologize if you felt I meant you, Dok. Totally didn't mean it that way.
My central idea about people being cynical is derived from a facebook arguement with some friends of a friend of mine, wherein they decided "fuck the whole thing" while putting zero effort into learning any of it. I say they put zero effort because, when asked to elaborate, they wouldn't.
Yeah, that totally explains why you contrasted Cain against the posts in question, in the context of this thread.
Grow a fucking pair.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
Mine. MINE!
Quote from: Cain on March 12, 2012, 07:38:39 PM
Furthermore, I'd like to add that aid agencies have a terrible reputation in central Africa, and with good cause. Aid agencies help prolong conflict, as they almost invariably have to pay tribute to the regional leader of the area they are operating in. Furthermore, they are obliged to take no sides in the conflict itself...which leads to situations like aid agencies looking after the Hutu genocidaires after they fled Rwanda following the 1994 genocide they initiated.
The hilariously depressing thing is how often things like that have occurred.
Not even touching the massive AIDS and anti-condom issues.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Alright, my bad. I apologize if you felt I meant you, Dok. Totally didn't mean it that way.
My central idea about people being cynical is derived from a facebook arguement with some friends of a friend of mine, wherein they decided "fuck the whole thing" while putting zero effort into learning any of it. I say they put zero effort because, when asked to elaborate, they wouldn't.
Yeah, that totally explains why you contrasted Cain against the posts in question, in the context of this thread.
Grow a fucking pair.
I'd be interested in you referencing specifically how I told Cain he was wrong.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
You have a tendency to think I have something against you. I'm not sure why, but it is what it is. I'm fairly certain, despite repeated apologies, that I can't convince you otherwise.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
Mine. MINE!
MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE NOOBS TO THE YARD
THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S BETTER THAN YOURS
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:46:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
Mine. MINE!
MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE NOOBS TO THE YARD
THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S BETTER THAN YOURS
:argh!:
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:45:48 PM
I'd be interested in you referencing specifically how I told Cain he was wrong.
So would I, because I never said you told him that.
What was said was that Cain could speak without being a cynic, because he researched it, but that other posters were just being cynical ("but no names" :lol: ), because in your omnipotence, you had decided exactly how much I knew about the subject.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:48:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:46:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
Jesus H Christ. Just who the fuck WERE you talking about, then?
Christ, I hate when people wimp out after making an inflammatory statement.
Probably me. In fairness, my response to the OP could have been taken as, "Fuck those Christians who want to help out an African nation."
Pretty sure that's not the case, LMNO. This isn't the only thread in which he's pulled this shit.
Dok,
Noob-magnet.
Mine. MINE!
MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE NOOBS TO THE YARD
THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S BETTER THAN YOURS
:argh!:
:hammer:
:digtbk:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 07:48:59 PM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on March 12, 2012, 07:45:48 PM
I'd be interested in you referencing specifically how I told Cain he was wrong.
So would I, because I never said you told him that.
What was said was that Cain could speak without being a cynic, because he researched it, but that other posters were just being cynical ("but no names" :lol: ), because in your omnipotence, you had decided exactly how much I knew about the subject.
Actually I said, repeatedly, that I wasn't necessarily talking about PDers, and never said "posters". Which, ironically, was so that people wouldn't assume I mean them. Which was because I was talking about the FB incident mentioned above, and because I try not to place blame during arguements, which I also mentioned.
You can choose to be offended, as usual. I apologized above (as I do). The only person responsible for how you choose to perceive things is you, so I'm going to drop it on my end. Unless you have legitimate criticism about my topic-related posts.
I don't think anyone's posted this one yet. Some more details on exactly how shady the group that put together this particular piece of slacktivism is.
http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/ (http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/)
Quote from: kingyak on March 12, 2012, 10:12:07 PM
I don't think anyone's posted this one yet. Some more details on exactly how shady the group that put together this particular piece of slacktivism is.
http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/ (http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/07/on-kony-2012-2/)
Well...the word "slacktivism" made me happy...and then that link just made me upset.
I didn't actually know invisible children sponsored Uganda's army. What kind of sense does that make?
The kind of sense that fundamentalists shilling for a fundamentalist Christian regime makes.
Uganda's government - very close with "The Family", aka the C-Street House, aka The Fellowship, rich and politically connected religious fundamentalists. The Family also fund and train various other Christian groups, especially in Africa.
I'm not saying there is a definite link between Invisible Children and the Fellowship, only that all three, once you include the Ugandan government, share that particular religious agenda.
Kony's not a monster, not in their eyes, he's competition.
Competition's bad for business. You can't arm the bad guy in the viral ad campaign, you can however sell these freedom fighters some lovely guns at a very appealing interest rate.
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on March 12, 2012, 04:30:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/3/11/145213/275
Turns out this thing was heavily funded by bigoted rightwing christians.
Oddly enough, so is most of the nominally christian horror in Uganda. The C Street group has their thumbs in alot of pies over there, and appear to be at least partly responsible for the whole "homosexuality is punishable by death" thing. If it's true that they're funding the anti-Kony campaign I'm guessing it's a false flag operation.
Though that's a little different from wanting a competitor eliminated, I hadn't considered that angle.
Does a half million dollars qualify as a direct link?
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/ (http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/)
Quote from: kingyak on March 12, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
Does a half million dollars qualify as a direct link?
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/ (http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/)
That'll certainly do, yes. So there you are. C-Street, Invisible Children and the Government of Uganda...like peas in a homophobic, fundamentalist pod.
Quote from: Cain on March 12, 2012, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: kingyak on March 12, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
Does a half million dollars qualify as a direct link?
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/ (http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/)
That'll certainly do, yes. So there you are. C-Street, Invisible Children and the Government of Uganda...like peas in a homophobic, fundamentalist pod.
Yeah, weren't these the pricks that were all happy that Uganda wanted to (or did?) make homosexuality a capital crime?
That would be them. I'm reasonably sure that the capital crime thing did go through, and that same regime is who donations to the Kony2012 thing are going to (well, the 30% left over after the primaries have paid themselves and furthered their filmmaking careers, that is).
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 12, 2012, 11:54:40 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 12, 2012, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: kingyak on March 12, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
Does a half million dollars qualify as a direct link?
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/ (http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/847062/invisible_children_funded_by_antigay,_creationist_christian_right/)
That'll certainly do, yes. So there you are. C-Street, Invisible Children and the Government of Uganda...like peas in a homophobic, fundamentalist pod.
Yeah, weren't these the pricks that were all happy that Uganda wanted to (or did?) make homosexuality a capital crime?
They actually prodded them to draft the legislation, IIRC.
Yeah, I believe we did some digging ourselves, and found there were more than a few links between the drafters of the legislation and the Fellowship.
The book on them is so worth reading, if you haven't already, by the way. For anyone reading this thread. It's called "The Family" and came out in 2008. Buy it. You wont be disappointed.
Holy snap! Apparently the kony2012 FB doesn't check the stuff that is shared on their page before it goes up. I highly suggest we post the above links regarding ugandan/family support before they catch on.
Thoughts?
Yes! Konygasm!
Looks like a bunch of people are on it already.
hxxps://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/KONY20121
Also: Surprise. Oil. :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXvk8CyeUIs&sns=em
God fucking damnit.
I was wondering more about the oil angle... I saw Dok mentioned earlier itt and now .
Quote from: Cain on March 13, 2012, 12:01:04 AM
The book on them is so worth reading, if you haven't already, by the way. For anyone reading this thread. It's called "The Family" and came out in 2008. Buy it. You wont be disappointed.
Seconded. 110% horrormirth.
Solutions:
http://actionfiguretherapy.com/archives/1996 (http://actionfiguretherapy.com/archives/1996)
Here's Rush Limbaugh supporting Kony
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/10/14/obama_invades_uganda_targets_christians
Well, really opposing action against him, but in his usual stupid coming across like he supports raping children way.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/14/kony-2012-screening-anger-northern-uganda?newsfeed=true
A showing of the Kony film in Uganda caused massive outrage.